How Much Pre Planning?

Depends on the complexity of the subject.

I have to pre-plan quite a bit. It's sort of mandatory to the process. Build/collect models, create textures, that kind of thing.

Sometimes I do just wing something though, usually I'll draw or paint when I do that, and not do my usual 3d stuff.

I think it greatly depends on the medium. When I use pencil and do drawings pre planning doesn't work for me...I stick to the idea in my head and let it grow as it draw. I found that with drawing that works best for me. Sometimes it is true with painting but that seems to want a little bit more planning. I make papier mache lampshades with no planning at all...the turn out great. But then I did a sculpture in the basement some years ago...and never planned on how to get it out :)

I may have my idea pre planned - but Watercolors take on a fluid life of their own.
I used to fight it, but have learned to allow the joy of spontaneity.

Feels like life to me.

Every effort requires some sort of planning.

Even if you just toss paint on a canvas, you have to plan which brush to buy, which paint to buy, which canvas to buy, where to set it up, how to clean it up, what to do if it does not work out this time.

In my FLUIDISM paintings, I would work out the set up, ... set the stage of disaster, so to speak, ... unleash the paints, shake them into a frenzy, and observe to detect any pleasing outcomes. The set up was somewhat calculated, but the process of the action was chaotic. After the chaotic event shaped itself, I would revert back to a more calculating mindset to finish the edges, seal the painting, and attach the hanging hardware.

The most unplanned that I have ever been was when I was outside, picking up sticks, and I spontaneously began shaping garden barriers out of those sticks, weaving them in and out of one another like a mindless animal forming its nest instinctively.

Robert that is true but what do you think of Moore saying that planing weakens the work? In other words the more spontaneous the better.

Depends on whether good composition flows naturally without any pre-planning or not... usually if you want good composition, some planning helps a lot.

Moore mostly did sculpture.

The Minimalist tried to picture the work in its entirety down to the finest detail in their head, then stick to that idea exactly with no changes or deviations of any kind. The idea is king so to speak. I think the two examples are extremes.

Spontaneous drawing or painting will reflect your subconscious mind more.
If you try over and over again your subconscious mind diminishes or weakens.
That is why people say that draw like a child. But important part is though. It’s easy to do it if you don't know the other.
As an Artist, Knowing all the rules but yet we have ability to break it. That is the process makes Art very interesting.

To answer to your question: sometime I do, sometime I don't

How much planning? None.

I buy paint, canvas' in bulk, and I have hundreds of brushes (some that have never been used), pallet knives, spatulas, sponges, rags, mineral spirits, gesso, oils, watercolors, easels, and a medium sized studio. I'm ready to paint when the need arrives. And I have more ideas than time. I can draw within minutes on a large canvas and make my art happen...but I should point out that I've been painting for twenty three years on the weekends.

What do I think of Moore's philosophy?

I can see where he is coming from, but I think he over generalizes. It also depends on what he means by "weakens".

I find myself believing that truly inborn artistic talent can produce captivating works in this frame of mind. But people like me would end up looking like a monkey painting, if my philosophy coincided with Moore's exclusively.

As I tried to explain to Blaine L., planning can improve an initial raw energetic output. It's called "refinement", NOT "weakening", in this case.

Now, in the case of those three images of mine that you thought had the most potential, I think that THERE I was more on a Moore approach, but what I lacked in preplanning ,energy-wise, for one of those images was consumed in countless repetitions of NO planning until I finally landed on one of those. Even the skeleton of those figures was preplanned. I used a planned skeleton upon which I experimented with completely spontaneous "skins".

I believe that there is an Eastern approach to painting that embraces the same underlying philosophy as Moore's. You probably have to practice at being unplanned, in order to be good at it. But planning to practice is still a plan, right?

Since the bulk of my income still comes from actual face to face sales, I've learned throughout the years on how much preplanning is necessary to have enough work ready to sell at those shows.

Most of the time is spent in preparation before the actual "Creation" process starts....The scavenging, the cleaning,the painting, the preserving, the sorting of the raw materials that is needed to make up the essence of my "art"

When I do start the "creation" process, it's also done in phases,...... A number of the pieces are worked at a time, together, step by step.....

Some I have an idea what the final product will be.

Others I "Let nature take it's course", "Go with the flow", or rely on, " Serendipity"........At times, I'm surprised and generally happy with the final results

This is the only way, without having a mold to spit out the work, that I can profitably make a go of it.

And at the end of this year round process, I have a slew of,( each piece being different), ORIGINALS to present to the public

Sometimes I'll see the finished product in my head and set to sketching out details and a plan, sometimes I think near enough's good enough and express it blotchily, letting the sponges, rags and knives provide the detail.

Sometimes I'll hatch the idea but the sketches are enough

Either way, planned, or spontaneous, your art ultimately will show through, with repetition, and practice. We are always thinking about our art so, in that way, all of our art in some way is planned, or pre planned.

Sometimes I also just see a vision so to speak of a painting and dive in. Other times, I sketch my main subject and just begin to build from there.

I definitely preplan my realistic paintings by studying the subject and doing, at least one or more, ink sketches.

But my abstracts involve no preplanning whatsoever because I want those to be completely spontaneous and let the painting tell me what it needs and therefore take me on a journey.

Bill Tomsa

http://billtomsa.blogspot.com/

I find it satisfying to read that there are multiple people here who work BOTH pre-planned and not-so-pre-planned approaches at one time or another. Looks like the answer is ... "depends".

Robert for most of us, myself included, that would be true.

No planning. Kills my process.
Commissioned work has to be hndled differently because I insist on approval in writing before I begin, so i do it in a small watercolor.

Almost always when I decide to start a new painting I "see" the finished work in my head. By the time I have actually finished the painting, it resembles my vision but generally goes much further. I like to take advantage of errors that might crop up, especially in abstract works. A paint drip gets outlined and incorporated into the painting, not wiped off.

Some works are planned and some are from the mind's eye.
More the latter now.

“Henry Moore said that Pre planning weakens the final product, I find myself somewhere in the mid range. I do some pre planning but allow myself flex as I go. How about you?”

You’re in mid range of ‘pre planning weakens the final product?’ That doesn’t mean anything.

The premise is completely arbitrary.

Joe Schmo says too much salt ruins a steak. I find myself somewhere in the mid range. I like some salt, but not too much. How about you?

Most people will have a different opinion of what too much salt is, which will deem any answers pretty random and meaningless.

If Joe Schmo says that the perfect amount of salt for a 12 ounce steak is one teaspoon, then you have a premise from which you can derive some clear results.

You have to define what pre planning is. You could have two people who are in complete agreement, but who appear to be in direct opposition because the question has no point of reference.

Preliminary drawings for ideas were what Moore specifically was talking about. He felt like the original idea or concept was the most powerful. Work should be more spontaneous and less calculated.

depends....

Raiden,

You can multiply x2 and sometimes x3 the numbers in the code.

Look closer towards the tail end of the code for the numbers.....and the alt and title. change the alt and title
to show up in some browsers.

width=250&height=169' alt='Photography Prints' title='Photography Prints' style='border: none;

at x3

width=750&height=507' alt='Sunset in Paris' title='Sunset in Paris' style='border: none;

Ronald,

Medium, method, design elements, subject, aesthetic.....

Each of those you have control over, and they have control over your work as well.

since my medium is preconceived by others, even if I radically change the underlying
it comes through and determines what I can do.

In this last piece the contrasting shadows made for a much better sunset than a walk in the moonlight.

BTW the pointilism of the underlying was perfect for a texturing effect in PS.

Dave

Raiden, Mario made a comment prior to yours, I had my students do a project based on his work. I still need to send him the pictures of what the students did.

edit

.

edit

Thanks, Raiden
I removed I am sorry. not a big deal. just curious.

This is very good Thread Ron,
I enjoy it very much.

edit

Raiden
Yes. The process will reveal what the finished product will be

edit

Hmm?

Raiden,

My experience is that I intend to make a work of art, then as I get into it I find out how the medium, the methods, design elements
will work and my final aesthetic often will not be the end result I had planned. The process is more determinant of what I get than
I ever expect. As I work the over all image design elements begin come into play. My eye is trained to see what can go wrong. Art
is problem solving so I begin to find work arounds to solve the problems in a given work.

My work is building constructs up. Others might be tearing constructs down, but mid stream decisions have to be made to make an aesthetic
the artist wants for whatever reasons.

Dave

edit

I pre-plan to a fault. Its because I am desperately trying to create the mood that I feel in my own mind to relay to the observer. I worry about everything..are the values right? are the shadows cast or form? Strategically placing the hard/soft edges.lights reflection that gives my art its luminescence.. .its the only thing I can control in my life. Its the only thing that is mine and mine alone.

Robert, what do you mean by edit?

what happened to Raiden?

Raiden is Robert.....

Dave

Dave, there's a light bulb above your head that just came on ;)

Raiden/Robert.....here's a thread you might like:

http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2466511

Thanks Ronald! I'm looking forward to those pics.

Pre-planning is about 65% the most important, it sets up the base for how the finished product will come together.

The whole pre planning thing is interesting. Marlene relies on an intuitive reaction to her work,(little or no pre planning) many who do commercial work, do a great deal of planning. I wonder if one could tell just by looking at an art work if you could tell how much pre planning was involved?

Plan or no plan Ron?

Drew you are always a mystery to me. I would say in most cases like this a great deal of pre-planning would be needed. In your case I am going to say it developed intuitively. Very little pre-planning used.

Edit...well sorry Ron, guess I could have gone back and edit there..but no..actual planning is rare for me..it is a fly by the seat of your pants thing. When I pre plan it blows up in my face so i found it is better to go into to a nothingness mode and let the work tell me what it wants to be...it is kind of like a Zen thing.. you just let your thoughts and mind go blank and then you let your hands do what they want to and just follow their lead to create.. it is very had to really explain here but it has always worked for me..and pre planning is a terrible thing at least for me,it has never worked out..this is great forum and yes this is Jean for ever more..since it is so hard for anyone to follow here , I will just stay Jean but im not sticking to just this type of art or that type,im going back all over the map until i find something that works.. and i will ,I always do.. traditional Asian art seems to draw many people so there will be a lot of that in the mix. JGP

And @Greg, remember your reference to the routine "whos on first?"well read through the last few post starting with Dave.. sound familiar?