What's Left Of My 2008 Honda Fit

Glad you're okay, Dan.

Not to defend the woman who hit you, but her detached attitude may have been her way of dealing with a traumatic event. Also, if her car had anti-lock brakes, there would be no skid marks even if she had stood on the brake pedal; which she obviously didn't do, based on your description.

So sorry to hear of your accident. I hope you will be back to new soon. It seems the person that ran into you is callous. Unfortunately if they are like that in an extreme circumstance they are in lessor circumstances. They are miserable and to be pitied, it's a horrible way to live. You can receive sympathy from friends and family, they are locked into their own miserable world, money alone doesn't make them happy.

So very pleased you are ok! Murray is right. When I'm in shock I go very matter of fact and seem uncaring but later it hits badly. Not defending her at all, she was an idiot and deserves anything the law throws at her but she may well have been in shock

Her van actually seemed to be accelerating through the impact. I never heard any sound of brakes being applied or saw the van slowing down in any way; quite the opposite. Maybe she was trying to outrun me, who knows.

I was running through the reasons why someone might do this: 1. Impaired driver due to medical condition or drug/alcohol intoxication. 2. Stolen vehicle eluding capture. But when I found out from the police that the woman was an upstanding member of a certain community - the cops knew the wife and hubby - I was floored. Not what I had anticipated.

Murray, not sure I agree with you there. ABS modulates the brakes to prevent skidding, but still leave a pattern on the road in a severe deceleration.

One thing for certain: The insurance company will query the van's computer through the OBDII port to see whether the brakes were applied at all before impact.

Glad you're okay, Don. Back in 2013 I was in a lane here that basically curves and blends into a lane going to the right. I was approaching the curve (there's a side street with a stop sign) on the right. A woman in a van looks right me and pulls out. All I could do was like you and wait for the impact. She hit my truck in the right rear side just behind the rear door (4 door truck). No airbags deployed due to impact area. The van pulls around me and stops. I asked if everyone was okay, and the woman just looks at me, not saying a word. Witnesses behind made statements to the police. $8500.00 worth of damage (parts & labor) to my truck, resulting in a new bed, complete rear axle, tire and rim. Her insurance of course paid for that, and a rental car for 6 weeks.

What seems callous about this person is insisting it wasn't a red light, well how about a yellow one?! How can you insist on being right in what seems to be an obvious error on her part. You know when you are running a light because you made the conscious decision to to it when it was yellow. Unless as you stated she was distracted, her mind was on something else, or medicated/drugs.

I have experienced callousness and been there. I was caught standing between traffic moving in lanes on either side of me and one yield lane, trying to walk to the other side. When the lane beside me had no cars I started to walk to the other side, the person coming in the yield lane would not stop for me until I threw my hand up to get her to stop, she was obviously annoyed I made her stop for a pedestrian.

It is possible to be in a state of shock but it is also to be callous and uncaring. I used to not want to stop for anyone and be angry if someone slowed me down. Thankfully I have changed and am not as much of a threat to people on the highway.

Was her phone checked to see if she was talking or texting at the time of the accident?

Yeah, I wondered that too. The police report doesn't indicate any suspicion of phone use, talk or text, so I'd assume no. I don't know if the insurance company has the right to query phone use just before an accident if the police don't suspect it.

Greg, glad to hear you made it through that wreck OK. I just hate that feeling of inevitable doom when a collision can't be avoided.

Don I'm glad to hear you are OK. I live about 3 miles from that ramp.

In my observation in recent years people in the Milwaukee area have become immune to colors in traffic lights. I see people blow the lights every day (not just yellow, well into red) and no longer just drive just 5 mph over the limit, they are driving 10 and 15 mph over the limit;. Everyone is in a fool hurry just to save what really only amounts to minutes at best. And with all the changes in Oak Creek and the development of the Drexel Town center the traffic levels have increased dramatically and will only get worse as more business opens there over the next 2 years.

Also keep in mind that every lawyer and insurance company will tell you to never admit fault no matter what the circumstance. Let the police and insurance companies sort it out.

As far as her callousness she may have been in shock as to what just happened. Even if she thought she had a green, why didn't she see a car in front of her?

Don I am so glad you are okay. Tomorrow is the anniversary of my husband having a head on collision with someone who was driving on the wrong side of the road - she had a young child in the car and had been distracted and drifted over the lanes. Both cars were written off and all three were taken to hospital. My husband was okay apart from bruised ribs and being horribly shaken up. The only reason he survived was because he was driving a right hand drive car on Italian roads (our exported English car). The police said if he had been on the left side he would not have walked away from it as it took the full impact of the crash as she tried to swerve right at the last minute. A sobering thought. The child needed stitches and I think the woman was okay. For weeks my husband kept going over and over it in his head, could he have done something different to avoid what happened - I think that is part of the process of dealing with the shock of it. I don't know if you have driven yet but after three days I made him drive, otherwise I think he might not have done so as he was so traumatised! We just drove a little bit and then gradually got back to normal. Be gentle with yourself Don.

Glad you're OK. I have been in a few bad accidents in my younger days and know it is traumatizing no matter what.

Don,

Glad you are physically okay.

In 2000 a young UCONN cheerleader rear ended my Buick. about $2000 worth of damage, the bumper and some paint. The police came and wrote her up.

I said to her if your parents want to pay for it we wont have to go to the insurance companies. I did that as a favor to them. Not me.

I got a call a week later from her mother. It turned out that the parents were getting a divorce, so the two of them were not thinking along the lines of some sort of kindness. She lowballed me. She offered me about two thirds of my cost for repair. I simply said thanks for calling me back, I will go to the insurance companies.

At that time I could not believe how as a stranger I was possibly getting treated worse than if I was a family friends, but now just writing this out and thinking about it, the couple's divorce was a tell of probably a lot worse behavior out of them.

I hope that young cheerleader did okay in life. And that the accident was a lesson not to drive with one foot up on the dashboard.

Dave

Chuck, points well taken. I'm beginning to understand this a little better talking about it now. And you're right, that area around Drexel & Howell is just going to be awash in traffic.

Dorothy, so sorry to hear about your husband, glad he made it through OK. And yes, I've driven my wife's car already, to get a copy of the police report and visit the tow lot where my car was taken so I could obtain personal possessions before it gets shipped off to the ins co and eventually to auction. I actually wanted to drive her car somewhere the day the accident occurred, but she didn't think that was such a good idea, so she drove me. Can't say I blame her. We only had one car left!

David, that's one heck of a story. Treating someone else's negligence as a negotiating situation. You needed to be made whole and you were only offered a portion. I guess that told you everything you needed to know about that family.

Don,

The other part of it might have been the cheerleader's damage was to much of her front end. So the family might have wanted to go to the insurers anyway. So why not pork someone over the bill? Not right, but their frame of mind was crappy in all likelihood.

Dave

I wonder if someone can successfully be sued for reckless indifference? It's one thing to be reimbursed for physical damage but that -expletive deleted- driver needs to pay.

Kathleen, I don't think so. I can't sue someone past whatever damage occurred, I can only ask to be made whole.

Now if my car were hit directly in the driver's side door and I had been seriously injured or killed as a result, I suppose I could have filed suit for the injury, or my wife could have filed a wrongful death suit if I were killed. But once I give up my car to the insurance company, I believe I give up most rights to sue the individual directly. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say with any certainty here.

I know that if I had been killed, the van driver would have been charged with reckless indifference/vehicular manslaughter, which in this state is a Class G felony, punishable by up to 10 yr. in prison and/or up to a $25K fine.

Well, I wish you all the best, Don. I'm so sorry this happened to you! Sometimes trauma can take much longer to heal than physical injuries so I hope you take good care of yourself.

Don, glad to hear you're safe.

There are some remedies to help release shock, which can remain in the cell memory at a subtle level, even if everything feels fine on the surface.

A popular natural one is Bach Rescue Remedy, taken in drops under the tongue. It helps release shock from cell memory, and from the energy field. Take it several times a day, for the next month, to help the shock gently release and work its way out. This helps the physical and emotional aspects heal more easily.

Joel, thanks for the suggestion. Luckily, my wife is a skilled bodyworker. We have been using myofascial release, unwinding and Reiki as part of therapy. We're working on it. And I know that working through the situation emotionally helps my body heal and vice versa.

Don, so glad you're okay.

Too bad you can't sue that you-know-what. She should lose her license for a while, at the very least.

I nearly killed 4 people a few weeks ago and I am still shook from the experience. I was headed south on the coast highway going the speed limit. I know that highway well so when I approached a short, steep rise, I slowed way down because on the other side of the hill there is a small pullout for beach parking on the right. I anticipated the possibility of a slow vehicle leaving. What I didn't anticipate is that 4 people would be STANDING in my lane of the highway!

They'd been crossing to get to their vehicle parked illegally on the left side of the highway and decided to stop and visit. I slammed on the brakes and just managed to keep from hitting all of them full on but that was only because I'd slowed well before topping the hill. They looked at me like I had violated their space! Sure pedestrians have the right of way but common sense dictates that when a pedestrian crosses a busy main highway on the downside of a blind hill you first listen for traffic then RUN across the highway when you know all is clear. Not these stupid tourists. And it's not like my truck runs silent! If I didn't know there was a pullout below the hill I may not have slowed that much and I would have mowed them down. I had to pull over as soon as I could and just watch the ocean for a while because I was shaking too hard to drive.

David you did what I think a lot of us really want to do, be kind and understanding. Trouble is that the world we live in doesn't respond in kind, in fact it will rip your guts out if it can. I learned a long time ago to let the insurance companies and/or lawyers sort it out. Fortunately I have never had to involve a lawyer in something like this.

Kathleen, I believe that we all have an inner sense of things that transcends the physical world, i.e., your inner sense picked up an unusual situation well before you could see it, and alerted you far enough ahead that a catastrophe was averted. So the inner sense says "slow down" but the reason for the slowing down is not apparent until you can physically see the situation with your eyes. Your inner sense kicked in, and did a splendid job at that.

The good thing is that you are fine .. God bless you

Don...glad that you are okay. Any crash you can walk away from is a good one. Just a couple of more feet and she would have crashed right into your door where you were seated. Many do not survive that impact, or if they do they are seriously impaired for the rest of their life. I have had my share of close calls and see people run red lights all the time.

Words of Wisdom:

While stopped at an intersection waiting for the light, when it turns green for you - that just means that you can legally proceed and enter the intersection. It does not mean that you can safely pass through that intersection and continue on your journey. Nowadays I always assume that someone is going to run their red light, so I wait a second ( or two ), look both ways and do not enter the intersection until I know for sure that it is entirely safe to do so. Not only have I saved my life ( and the passengers in my vehicle ), but quite possibly the lives or safety of the people in the car behind me.

Mel, I learned that lesson in spades this weekend. The fellow in the lane next to mine saw the van running the red light, and he had the good sense to not proceed. I'm just glad I didn't take off too quickly, because if I had, that would put the impact site right on my driver's side door, and the ability to walk away after the collision, or to ever walk again, is in question.

I'm about to say something that might be construed as stereotyping. Perhaps it is but it sure isn't meant to be negative or demeaning in any way. Just the opposite, in fact.

Don, I think you are absolutely right about humans having an innate sense of danger on a subconscious level but I believe that the longer we are removed from living in environments where our senses have to stay finely tuned for survival, we lose our ability to perceive those subtle nuances that informed our ancestors. I've spent a great deal of time living in both rural and urban environments so understand the need to be aware of my surroundings in both environments but only rarely did I need to be on full alert to survive. Many modern humans get complacent because we can.

This is the part where I need to tread carefully - I lived for a time in a very different community among people who were still intimately connected to their ancestors' way of life, both culturally and pragmatically. They feel a much greater need than I to be aware of their surroundings at all times if they are to survive and their sense of something being "off" seemed magical to me at the time. Their 5 senses were heightened in such a way that I have to assume that they are still as sharp as they were in our ancestors' time but there was something else at play also and that's where more of the magic came in. They knew so many things that they had no way of knowing. And it happened time after time. It was mind-blowing stuff, well beyond anything informed by our 5 senses. What they knew, and had no logical way of knowing, literally transcends time and distance.

"I always assume that someone is going to run their red light, so I wait a second ( or two ), look both ways and do not enter the intersection until I know for sure that it is entirely safe to do so."


Ditto on that, Mel. I do the same thing.

Geez Don, really glad you were physically unhurt. The trauma of it can be a challenge though so its good you are talking it out.

Shock does funny things to people.

In 2008 I was driving home from work in a large ute (like a pick up truck) full of landscaping supplies. At 110km/hr i was suddenly hit from behind amd that spun me out into mutliple 360 spins down the highway at terrifying speed. I eventually hit the median and bounced off to come to a stop. I thought the ute would flip at one stage and I honestly thought that i was about to die. The strange thing was has slow motion the whole thing was and how relatively calm i was.

I got out, unhurt and noted some damage to the rear and front where i impacted the median barrier. I see a young guy further down the road walking towards me. He is extremely upset in tears. He keeps saying he fell asleep at the wheel and accelerated into me. Worst part was it wasnt his car, he didnt have a license and no insurance. His car was in a very bad state but after i tried to console him it didnt stop him from fleeing the scene, despite fire fighter attempts to detain him until the cops arrived.

I was ok until i got home. Then i collapsed in shock in the kitchen and was like that for a while going over and over the accident in my mind. It was very terrifying at that speed, any other smaller sedan and i would be dead, I am sure.

Important thing is to talk to people about it, try not to dwell and get back on the horse.

All the best Don

Thanks for sharing that, Justin, and glad you were not hurt. I know what you mean about the delayed shock. It hits you like a ton of bricks. No doubt the same thing happened to the van driver in my collision, although in what form we don't know.

Very glad you are alive to tell about it.

Update: My insurance company is going after hers in subrogation. Already got a check from my ins co for my totaled vehicle. Only thing I don't have yet is my $1000 collision deductible, but they'll go after this too, and hopefully get it back to me. I petitioned her ins co to reimburse said deductible to me directly, but they were not nice about it....started claiming I should have been able to avoid the accident myself and therefore I'm negligent. Right. I asked that adjuster, explain to me how a car running a red light at high speed is my fault or negligence? No common sense there, but I get what's going on....her ins co is trying to draw this out as long as possible so they don't have to pay immediately.

Already in a new vehicle, a 2016 Fit, and I must say it's quite an improvement over my '08. This one has the continuously variable transmission - a variation on the automatic. Last time I bought a car with an automatic was 1978. Previous seven cars were all manual transmission. My left leg gets a rest!

So in the end, it all worked out. Now I just wait for my deductible and get on with my life.

Just wanted to let everyone know how it worked out, and thanks for all the responses.

Just curious which insurance company is she with?

Glad you like the new car and you are well.

Dave

The other insurance company is under no obligation to reimburse you directly once you had yours handle the matter. In subrogation you will be reimbursed first before your insurance company even gets it's reimbursement for the entire amount. Since you called the opposing insurance directly they were just trying to get a rise out of you to see if you would admit to anything. Just let your insurance handle the matter, and get a copy of the police report if you don't have one already. The insurance companies can't go much beyond the findings of the police investigation. If you were not ticketed and the report shows the other party being at fault there is not much the opposing insurance co. can do about that, hence the effort to get you to say something incriminating.

Be glad the other party had insurance. Back in Oct someone without insurance pulled in front of my wife. Only $2000 damage, but we have to wait to recover our deductible because I'm sure the other party is only making $10 a month payments.

Don and Chuck,

Do either of you two have under insured/uninsured coverage? Would that have kicked in Chuck?

Dave

Wow Don! So glad you're going to be ok. Sounds like you're in good hands physically. Take care.

Try not to ponder too much on the other driver's motives. Who knows what her emotional state was before the accident, and everyone handles shock and stress in different ways. Just focus on healing. Wishing you all safe travels in the future.

Dave, I have uninsured coverage. I don't want to name the other insurance company. Not my intention to bash them publicly.

Chuck, it was worth a shot to see if the other ins co would reimburse directly. I had no hopes they would. They did provide me a rental car when I requested one 9 days after the collision, so I thought they might accept full liability, but obviously that didn't happen. If you read my first post, I stated I had to get a copy of the police report just to get the other driver's name and insurance company.

Cynthia, thanks. I'm past trying to figure out the other driver's actions because I'll never really know. It bothered me at first, but sharing the experience here and on other fora led me to the conclusion that everyone reacts differently in times of stress, and since I didn't know the other party ahead of time, I couldn't even begin to guess her side of things or what her baseline behavior is.

Did you get the names of the witnesses or have them give statements to the responders? Glad you're ok. When my airbags deployed in a hit and run 2 years ago, my hearing was shot for a few hours.

Louise, yes, I did. Plenty of witnesses who saw the whole thing go down, and two of them stuck around so they could give their accounts to the police.

Sorry to hear about your accident and hope you're OK now.

David, yes I have under insured/uninsured coverage. It's actually a very cheap rider. It kicks in, in that my insurance paid for the repairs. The deductible still applies though. Presumable I'll get it back someday. The last time something like this happened, way back in the '80s, I got my deductible back 5 years after the fact.

Maybe she's colour-blind. However that is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

http://www.deadlyroads.com/wisconsin-gets-it.html

I thought this was interesting. You have to read the whole article to understand (a) the problem with drunk drivers' incentives to hit and run rather than stay to help and get caught with elevated blood alcohol levels; and (b) the legislation the Wisconsin legislature passed to attempt to solve the problem.

Nasty penalties - potential jail time & fines, for someone who gets caught doing the hit and run thing in Wisconsin. The criminal penalties are penalties, they're not about making the victim whole.

If you don't get bored silly by reading statutes - this one is particularly dry reading - here's the legislation:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/XI/67

FYI only, I understand sometimes insurance companies have agreements amongst themselves about which claims they litigate, and which they don't, it saves the insurance companies from getting tied up in litigation on every car accident. It's about reducing the volume/overall expense of litigation, not about the individual claimant. They pay your claim and move on.

Disclaimer: as always, not legal advice.