When You Have Less Than 10 Images In Your Portfolio

Trying FAA with ten images is like training to be a long distance swimmer in your bathtub.

All ten images are really great. But a real test would be put up 300 images and give it 6 months and make sure you promote and advertise all you can OUTSIDE of FAA for the six months. That would be a real test.

Best of luck to you.

30 dollars a year comes out to 2.50 cents a month. Less than 9 cents each day. But if you must upload only 25 my suggestion would be one subject or style as it would make it easier to market to a certain group.

Thanks for the correction on that one! Yes, 30 dollars a year!!

I believe "See My Photos" meant "30 dollar a year comes out to".

If you're "just trying out" a few images, you might as well fill it to the max of a free account which I believe would be 25 images at a time. The more images the more chances of being seen. The rest is up to your marketing skills. I can't advise you there as marketing is not my forte'. I'm experimenting with that part of the formula myself.

Thanks Brian! Sometimes it shocks me when I break it down to how much it cost per day!

Thank you everybody for all the comments. I must upload more and try more marketing as well I guess.

"Do or Do Not, There is No Try" - Yoda

If this is all you have then great - we all have to start some where. But you'll need hundreds of images and lots of promotion to start seeing sales. Its a long term endeavor that takes years to get established.

Don't guess, have a plan, improve, learn, work, try new things, learn, work, etc

you keep making more stuff. you advertise what you do have. beef up the bio, and add latin names to the fish.

EDIT
didn't notice the word try... there is no try.

ever go to a store that only has 5 products? how long did you stay? about a second? how about a garage sale that had 5 things? you get the picture. you have a ton of competition, you have 5 things only, ranging in theme too drastically. if you want to sell things, you have to be serious and upload everything you have as long as it looks good and is clear.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

10 images? I only see 5 images on your page, where is the other five?

Hi Tina! I also only see five images. The fact that they are of spectacular quality helps some, but that beautiful golden fish is titled "Fish" and has a very short description. What kind of fish is it? Google picks up the text in the description area and so it serves you well to have good punchy wording in that text. Buyers like to know about what they're looking at...it helps in their decision to buy. I also believe a good, thoughtful title and description pays honor and respect to the work itself :) This is all said in a helpful manner only....your work is very good, you just need to pay a little more attention to the other elements (titles, descriptions, keywords). :)

Think of your FAA portfolio as a needle. Now think of the rest of FAA as not just one big haystack, but hundreds if not thousands of them.Even at almost 900 images, mine is also a needle in a haystack.

This is a conversation for photographers not painters. Painters are lucky to paint 1000 in a lifetime.

@David- Excellent point!

i've seen people paint them in a week. there is that lenoid guy. he has 3000 or more paintings, all huge. it really depends how much time you spend on it, and so on. in any case 5-10 of anything will be harder to sell.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

David said,

"This is a conversation for photographers not painters. Painters are lucky to paint 1000 in a lifetime."

It's not about getting a thousand in my mind or some other magic number. I used my portfolio as an example. But anyone should have more than five if they hope to get noticed.

Tina -- Very good question!

First, visit the Best Seller page, you'll find that several of the top twenty only have few images available. As to answer your question ..

Here is my thread about the benefits of groups.

http://pixels.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2048106 on faa http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2048106

Also, when an admin features my image in a group, the first thing I do is tweet the group. I find these tweets see more interaction and any others I send.

I think part of our sales comes from how several members / admins tell me that when a new image is added to the group that google finds them. They also say, when your in a group, featured or not (though it helps to be seen on the front page), your image is then associated with others. and without having to add new keywords, or spam words, people can find your image through random google searches and your image will show up in the group or contest. Never underestimate the power of groups here.

Since I've been groups moderator about a year now, I have learned from several members that all they do is about an hour each day in groups and make sales each month.


Hope this is helpful to you. Enjoy your day!

Leonid is an anomaly, he has a fast, loose style and has been at it a very long time. Very few painters churn out paintings like a factory. If you search best sellers and paintings there are artists in the first few pages that have less than 100 images on FAA, one in particular only has 71 and a few of them are on the first page of best sellers. 300 images or more does appear to be more common among the best selling painters however. I think it's more about finding your style/niche and promoting it heavily, I think that's actually harder to do than making the art.

Frank I'd use groups more if there were more groups into which my art fits that are actually active, (an image I submitted to one a month ago is still sitting there pending). I'm not interested in groups that are designed to take all subjects and mediums. Seems kind of pointless to me to have such a broad themed group, redundant even.

Those top selling people with very few images are really the anomaly.

They all have special circumstances surrounding their success. Most of it is due to a lot of fame and success that give them a huge following. Unless the new person comes to FAA that is not going to happen buy maybe one out of 100,000 times if that many.

This is not the painting business. This is the Open Edition Print business. If you cannot produce the inventory, then you are probably not going to enjoy the success you would like
If a low output painter wants to get into the print business bad enough there are things they can do. Without trying very hard, I can make at least 30 images out of the ten. But you have to be willing to do what is necessary to make it happen. It is not the perfect way to go but it is way to build the numbers as you get stated. Then as you paint more imaged, you can keep these tactics in mind.

There is a direct correlation between number of images for sale and the number of sales. You do not have to necessarily wait a year or more to start selling.

I started selling as soon as I started making uploads. And there is a direct correlation between uploads and sales. I can take my upload trend line and my sales trend line and superimpose them on the same graph and they are nearly identical.

Selling prints is different than selling original art. It is much more of a numbers game.

Read this guide and discover the 75/25 Rule and apply it, would be my suggestion.


Response to new FAA member looking for advice

David K -- "Frank I'd use groups more if there were more groups into which my art fits that are actually active,"

Looks like you might consider starting a group with the features you're looking for. Chances are others might be thinking the same as you and waiting for someone to do it.

Floyd, I'm sure what you are saying is the common rule but there are exceptions. There is at least one best seller painter that has just 100 images and she is not famous, does not have hardly any following outside FAA that I can see, but she does have a distinctive style.

Frank, I may consider managing a group or two in the future but for now it would be more productive for me to spend my time elsewhere.

David, I would not argue that that is not true. I would argue that it is not going to happen to even .05% of the new members.

I don't believe any new members start selling right off the bat unless they already have a name before they get here. I imagine it took that one person I mentioned a couple years at least to become a best seller, and from what I can tell it wasn't through heavy promotion outside of FAA. I'll confess I really don't know how she did it.

Your traditional artwork has a very nice style. As an artist working in traditional media, you can never achieve the sheer volume of imagery that a photographer does. Just keep uploading as you can, do the keywords and marketing. For $30 it is a great place to portfolio your work for buyers of originals also.

You do very good work, but you need to present it better in order to sell prints.
This is cool but will not print:
It appears cut off and is heavily and unevenly shadowed. That brings me to this:
As everyone has stated, you need to get your work seen. There are thousands if not millions of artwork on this site, the majority of which never gets seen by site browsers, yet they still sell. Use social media to your advantage, but be sure the work you post is error-free. Scan, don't photograph. Preferrably use a professional to scan the images but at least have a large format scanner available to use.

I just have a hard time telling people they have to wait a year or two to see any sales or that they can possible sell much at all with less the 100 images or maybe even 300-1000 images.

One of the reasons I have a problem with that is that we are not hearing from 99% of the members here. We are hearing only form a very, very, tiny percentage of the membership here. And they do not represent a cross section of the general membership. In fact, there are a whole lot of people that still have not committed to the premium account, weighing in. I have no problem with that. But I don't think that represents the average experience of the premium membership or the membership in general.

I have a hard time thinking that we are hearing anything even close to the 'average" experience here. I also think that the experience we are hearing is going to be slanted towards the downside. If for no other reason, it is human nature to want to vent when we are disappointed or what ever.

It is people looking for help that are most likely to be coming to the threads. The people that are selling a lot or even enough to make them happy are not weighing in.

Now before everyone comes unglued and starts accusing me of saying that people with less than 25 images have no right to post in the threads. That is not my position at all. However I have seen others say they should have limited privileges, so go yell at those people. lol

I think every member paid or not should have a right to post whatever they want.

Loretta Luglio, I totally agree with you. But she can take a page out of you book and do some of the things that you have done to get your image count up and offer choices to people.

And very, very well done I may add.

One of the best sellers here has presented the same image in several different ways. Full image, details, color, black & white, sepia, HDR treatments, greeting cards, different versus... She has several thousand uploads, but I don't know exactly how many totally different images.

She has a great gallery with a huge selection of different topics and styles as well. And she sells a lot of stuff. Very nice lady to chat with also.

Many "artists" do not limit themselves to only painting or photography, which is why I generally use the term image(s) instead of photo(s). Even my photos are usually altered, enhanced, or manipulated since I try to create something akin to fine art and not just snapshots.

I've thought about that Brian, but photography just doesn't interest me enough to take the time to get good at it. I've even got a DSLR but it makes my head ache trying to figure out what all the buttons, switches and menus do.

Do people really sell sepia and B+W versions of color paintings?

My first rule David is that there are exceptions to everything. :)

a black and white of a painting, would really depend on the image. not all color things gray out well.

a camera is easy to operate, leave it on auto. point it at something you like and shoot. then you could always run it through a painter or something to give it that painted look.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

@ Floyd : " But a real test would be put up 300 images and give it 6 months and make sure you promote and advertise all you can OUTSIDE of FAA for the six months. That would be a real test. " I'm a definite failure - it's been six years - not six months.

"Do people really sell sepia and B+W versions of color paintings?"

Yes, there are several people that I know that are doing just that. And of course not all images are going to works as well. It will depend on the image and how much time you want to mess with it.

There is one gal for sure that I have talked to that does very well with doing just that. She has the best representation of that concept that I have ever seen. But there are others.

I have spent hours and hours watching the recently sold and trying to figure out who are the best sellers and then going over their galleries to see what they are doing.

I don't want to start an argument. But we are told very often that this wont' work, or this will not sell etc, etc. But if you go look at enough of these big sellers and huge galleries, you will see why I say no one knows what will sell and what will not. A lot of the stuff that people tell us will not sell, sells all the time here.

Roy, you not selling here is a real mystery to me. Your work is just fantastic. I would think that you would sell a couple a week just by accident. There has to people that once the find FAA that just sit and browse and find your work without really looking.

I don't care if you never sell anything, no on in their right mind can possible look at your work and think failure. You are just too good.

I do believe that if I were you, I would combine the two galleries you have and lead with you more traditional images. But that is just my opinion.

I do recognize tastes vary and what I can't imagine anybody buying might actually be something another person wants, but I'm concerned that taking the shotgun approach might result in confusion and drive a potential buyer away because he can't figure out what the heck the artist is about or not take him seriously, but then maybe that's having too much of a Fine Art mindset for a POD site.

I have a hard time seeing someone picking a sepia or B+W image over a color one if they have the choice. Even if the color one didn't match their sofa I'd think they'd just look for a color image that did. Your comment did get me thinking though and I played around with this image;



Without going to far as to add text to make it a poster or card or something, I could make five more versions of it, a sepia and B+W and then a square format version plus sepia and B+W versions of the square format version. I don't have many images that I think would work for that treatment, but I'm struggling with the idea of if I should do it even for those that it would work for. It just seems all very gimmicky to me.

I'm not a top seller here, but I sell consistently with just about 140 images total. I add about 7-9 a year max.

The photography pond here is a huge one, and I would agree volume can help you stand out in the crowd. I think the quantity angle is great for photographers or other prolific artists. However some of us just can't crank out work fast enough to reach the minimums many say are ideal. I will never have a thousand images, let alone thousands. Yet my sales grow every year.

Don't get overwhelmed. Put your best work out there, market it well, continue to build your portfolio (and your voice as an artist) as you build your audience.

You definitely have a portfolio to envy Cynthia.

Thanks, David. I know I've told you before I really enjoy your work too. I have kind of made a niche for myself, I think, and that helps me. It's a good angle, if you can swing it.

David, I think once a person goes into the business of selling prints vs original, I think that standard advertising and marketing rules apply more so then with original art and that may mean using a gimmick or two.

The print buyer is not as persnickety as the person that only buys originals and sometimes it is the gimmick as much as the art that makes the sale. I know most people do not want to hear that but it is what retailing is all about these days. Selling prints is more about matching couches, or filling a specific space on a wall.

If the space demands a square piece, then the good or ever average square piece is going to sell over the rectangle piece even if it is much better image, in your opinion. Your opinion maybe doesn't matter as much in selling prints as it does in selling originals. (I mean "you" in the general meaning, not you personally).

My philosophy in selling prints is you let the people buy what they want instead of what you want to sell them buy. You do that by offering them a lot of options.

I have people tell me they are doing a room in all B&W landscapes. Please send be some images to look at. Nostalgia people love sepia tone. Not as big as it was a few years ago, but still some are people looking for them.

Here is an example of the mystery of selling prints. I have this image below in my People Being People gallery. Now I am sure a lot of people would ask why? I am sure most people would never put this up for sale. But I am not most people.

But the fact is I have sold it three or four times. But never the color version. Can you explain that? I sure can't.

I understand what you are saying Floyd, it can be a mystery what people will buy. My problem is I struggle to decide which way to go, either the smaller, but targeted high quality portfolio like Cynthia's or the largest possible diversified portfolio like you suggest. I really struggle with marketing, I seem to have an almost immovable mental block with it so it seems a large diversified portfolio might be better for my chances of success, but then I see at least a couple artists with smaller, targeted portfolios that are successful with seemingly little marketing. Obviously both ways can work, I just can't decide which way to go myself. I think I'd enjoy doing either one so that's not much of a factor in the decision.

you do what you do. if you should always strive for high quality, always. no matter what else anyone else says, if you want people to recognize your work, its better to have 10 pieces that are really good, then a 100 of so-so works. an artist has to build up their name. otherwise it won't matter what you upload. in bulk, you may catch a few fish. but it may only be the one fish at the one time and never again.

i make 4 new things a week, it used to be 25 things in a week and before that i think it was 5 (because i had to cut them into different crops for one site). i strive for the best quality i can get and then the picture advertises itself. and when the buyers come back to where ever they are hiding, it usually sells because people are willing to advertise my image as a discovery they made when they found my work.

many painters fall under the trap - if i have lots of things then i will sell lots of stuff. so they post random snap shots of anything and it drags down their portfolio. paint things well, upload them. it may take YEARS to get enough to show enough. i started small, i had like like 400 things done and sent those to another site. over the year i had another 400-500 things made and each year i create more things. when i started here i had 1200 things made. i've been here for a bit and have more now.

there is one person here that has 2 images - and it sells all the time, certain times of the year. it all depends who your audience is, and how hard you push the work. having a large body of work helps a lot. it keeps people in the store, it helps them in having choices. they may want 4 fish, and if you don't have 4, they move on. so you want lots of the same things.


targeting helps a lot. generic images are a two edged sword. on the one hand it might be easier to sell to a larger amount of people, but there are many with generic images. targeting can help you. i've seen people paint just cup cakes - that's all they did. and they became known for it. a simple cake in the middle of the image. that's a specialized thing and yet has a wide appeal. its easier to advertise too as well because you can look up specific types of people.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

" no matter what else anyone else says,'

I have never seen anyone ever say to not always strive for higher quality. That goes without saying.

But not every image is always going to be the best of the best. That is simply impossible. There are always going to be some images that are better than others.

I would hate to see people discarding images that may very well sell because they do not think they are all tens. The fact is no one, if they start looking at their images is going to see all tens. Not if they are totally objective. And even if they did, the buying public, where it really counts, would not agree. Just because ever image is not a 10, that does not mean that a whole lot of 9s, 8s, 7s and maybe even 6, 5s and 4s will not sell.

No one can tell anyone that those images will not. We see lower quality art sell every single day all over the net including FAA and that also includes what other people call "snapshots"

Besides that, what difference does it make?

Some people are posting "only the best" and not selling anything. If one has a gallery of 50-100 "only the best" and they are not selling, maybe they need to post their next 50-100 best and give the buying public twice as much to choose from. How can posting some images that are maybe in their minds not their best work, possible make things worse? It can't. And it just may generate a few sales

I have faith in the buying public that they can make up their own minds as far as what they want to buy. They will buy what they like and it may very well be what you think is your worst.

I have never said post bad art. I have said that bad art does sell and that would include a whole lot of snapshots that sell every single day here and others places. 90% of the people here are accomplished enough that almost anything they create it is going to be presentable and just may increased their chances of selling.

Like I said, if someone is selling next to nothing or nothing period, how can that possible make things worse? How is that going to drag down them down? Seems that are already down as far as they can get. I would think that would be time to take a few risks.

how is that impossible? you do your very best each time. that's it. i never said to erase things. just do you best each time you upload. it should never be like - well i have 50 of the same thing from the same angle and they are not great, but i want to bulk up the gallery so i'll just dump them up here, buyers won't know the difference. i upload 10's. and anything i have in my gallery remains a 10. i strive for a 11 though.

one only has so much time, you have to spend that time wisely, and upload only the best you have. its not that a lower quality one won't sell, its a matter of getting your name out as an artist. if your just a store running and selling things, then it doesn't matter if you have a bunch of less that stellar shots. but if your pushing your name as an artist, then you only have your work to support you. while its true you might sell one or two to a random person, your goal is to sell it many more times. anything can sell if you wait long enough.

the amount you have doesn't really matter. its how you market and who you market to. you can have a 1000 shots that are beyond brilliant, but without a goal, or a marketing plan then the images sit.

the one thing that one has to realize is - art takes a long time to make. and you have to concentrate on what you want. either its a store where you have a million mediocre shots and chances are you will be that odd store out that may have the thing someone happens to be looking for. or you will be that one with fewer images that are well done, and people remember who you are as an artist above everything else. i'd rather fall into that camp myself. before uploading random images of random quality, i would first try to focus on what things they are selling and create a series, then push what they have. once they start adding random things - their name slips. you take the chance of being a one hit wonder and your name is forgotten about.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

at the end of the day, will each of the images you send here - attract attention to yourself? that's how everyone should be looking at their stuff.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Well Mike, I simple disagree with most, but not all of what you just said.

" it should never be like - well i have 50 of the same thing from the same angle and they are not great, but i want to bulk up the gallery so i'll just dump them up here,"

The way you are saying that, in response to my post, you seem to be suggesting that is what I am saying some one should do. If that is the case, that is simply a misrepresentation of what I said.

If it were not for the fact that we are not allowed to call out other artist, I would post three or four examples of people that sell a whole lot of art here of what I said in regards to posting "different" versions of the same image. Or B&W or sepia versions. It is done here and it is done very successfully.

Not all art takes a long time to produce. You yourself pointed that out that there are artist that can paint an image fairly quick. But yes for the most part I agree. But it only takes a small amount to time to do different versions of the same image. Not every image is going to work that way. But a lot of it will.

Look at these images below. This is what I am talking about. Basically the same image done in four different versions. There are also Sepia versions of all four. This is one of Somerset Fine Art feature artist. He sells a ton of stuff. Probably ten time more then you and I combined in any one year and has been at it for years and years. I have been selling his work for over 20 of those years. I don't think that he would agree that this drags his work down. Neither would Somerset.

I understand that these are photos and they lend themselves to this much easier the a lot of paintings. But there are thousands and thousands of "details", different versions of some of the most famous painting in the world that sell very, very well.

loved the Yoda reference that Ed provided.

you can cut up work for an image that is already known about, or an image that's well done to start with. but if you did it only to your own stuff, it may be a different story. basically its much easier to push images that people have already heard of. and also if your recropping the same image, there is a limit to how large you can see it for.

in any case, i do believe the buyer does look for quality, and for the pride of my own work, i can only upload the very best, and only in the versions that i think make the product look good. my name is attached to it, its how i think anyone should do it.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

"but if you did it only to your own stuff,"

I do it to my own stuff all the time and so do thousands of other artist everyday and plenty of them right here in FAA. It goes without saying that it has to be done right and it has to meet the standards of size and quality to be printed. But what is right is for each artist to decide for themselves.

"in any case, i do believe the buyer does look for quality, and for the pride of my own work, i can only upload the very best, and only in the versions that i think make the product look good. my name is attached to it, its how i think anyone should do it. "

No one has ever argued that that is not the right thing for you. But to suggest that it right thing for everyone else is just not valid, imho, anymore then if I was to argue that what I am suggesting is right for everyone else.

Each person has to make that decision for them selves. Doing different versions is an entirely legitimate concept that is being done here and is selling art here all the time. It is done all over the place and it is selling art.

Floyd,

I think part of your philosophy of having a larger selection has to do with the pick one up in a store and the value goes up mentality.

If someone picks up something in their hand in a retail store they are far more likely to buy than if they just look at it in passing. The value
of the object rises.

With prints in a gallery, if someone flips through many prints they become attached to the idea of buying a print and supporting the artist.

With that in mind if someone comes to FAA and looks at a particular artist with some interest, as they flip through his/her print options more is better.
Many of us put some images into each gallery as a category. If we have x many imagers in a gallery more is better. Gives the potential buyer
reasons to choose something.

It opens up more potential.

Dave

@Louise Reeves Thank you for the comments. The photograph I referred to was cut off this way so I just did it as is. As regards the errors, I am still in the learning phase so thank you for pointing the errors out to me, I'll be more careful the next time. Besides, I did take a photograph with my mobile so that must have made the image look worse. :(.

@ Loretta Luglio Thank you. I will be adding in more traditional images, I am now focusing on creating more Kerala Mural Inspired Art works.

@ Loretta Luglio Thank you. I will be adding in more traditional images, I am now focusing on creating more Kerala Mural Inspired Art works.

@Joy McKenzie Thank you for the comments. I honestly do not know what fish it is, so I just kept the title real simple. Has anyone here any idea on what it is ? Thank you

@ Floyd Snyder "Trying FAA with ten images is like training to be a long distance swimmer in your bathtub. "
Lol but yes I understand I have to improve and add more to my collection.
Thank you.

When you have less than ten images in your portfolio - you add more.

@ Roy Erickson Thank you. I will soon.

quality is like this (compared to food again):

i run a fancy restaurant, and i want every dish to be perfect. each meal is served on a nice plate and each thing i make is perfect. so no matter what is eaten, they will tell their friends.

however there are more than one kinds of restaurant.


buffets (i like them), compared to art though, a buffet has ok food. there are many dishes, and usually one base ingredient and its found in a dozen different styles. and there is nothing wrong with that. you can't compare it to a fancy restaurant though. and your competition is tougher because there are a lot of buffets. you would need to find a signature piece that only you make to bring in the customers. a gimmick of some kind.

so in the terms of art, you would need at least a few really good pieces, in order to fill the rest up with random things. however i would never recommend to fill a gallery with lots of the same image (unless it sold really well in one form), with many alternatives -sepia, black and white, inverted, upside down, backward, because it only confuses the buyer and it tells them that the artist doesn't know what they are doing and can't choose the best one to present. selling less that perfect images only works if you have much more popular pieces to attract attention.


but to get back to the op - you should upload what you have, remain consistent in style and get your name known. it takes up to a year before google decides your a real place or not, and even longer to blog out and so on. it takes me an average of 3 months to sell things on the good months. if you only have a handful of things, you'll never actually experience the site like you should. and if you invite people to come look, they will leave fast because you have very few things here. if you have more upload it. i just wouldn't upload filler images though.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Thank you Mike for all the comments.I will be uploading more soon.Thank you.