Do You Remember Your First Real Critique?

I don't remember my first critique.

But I remember being at an art fair (standing just outside my booth so people could enter) in Brittainy when a Parisian woman, who had been criticising all the works she passed, stopped and said to her partner in a loud voice "Oh, I don't like those paintings,they're too photographic". To which I replied with a smile, "Thankyou, that's just the effect I was searching for". She turned to look at me, her face went red, and she stomped off to the next booth followed by several sniggers.

Another time someone passed and said she didn't like my booth because it was too cold. I painted marines at the time, and used a lot of blues, greys and greens. I thought about that and it made me experiment more with colour.

That is interesting about colour and warmth Andy. I love my seascapes but the fav of most out of them is the reddish one. It is warmer than the others. I wonder if that is why

I remember my first one only too well and now never ask for critiques ;)

Yep.....I remember clearly the first time someone I really respected basically told me what I was doing looked like crap.

He was right too.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

I also remember the first time the same person said "WOW...that is something"

I actively looked for critiques from people that were better than me. I wanted Mike like critiques. Blunt and genuinely helpful.

Then there was Thomas. He once told me my images look kind of flat. He was right.

I ran crying to my editing coach and fixed the issue.

I took a couple of life drawing classes at the local community college. The teacher went around the class while we were doing contour drawings of the model and when she got to my easel she said in a low voice so only I could hear it "I see all the talent is on this side of the room". That made me feel really good.

Then I had a critique of my photos here from Mike. It was actually a pretty tame critique by "Mike standards" but he did give me a couple of "I don't know why anyone would buy an image of ....(fill in the blank)". At least he didn't say it was crap LOL.

Probably the same person Thomas is talking about also critiqued me. I don't remember all the critiques but remember when he said wow.

Another friend of ours was considered a master of BW. I recall him once telling me I was better than doing cheap edit tricks and to this day, when either man or my editing coach comments on my art it means more to me than getting a sale.

Every critique I've ever had, no matter how painful to hear, has usually resulted in an improvement in the quality of my work. I had two critiques when I first started here. One from Mike Savad and one from Angelina Vick. Surprisingly I didn't get raked across the coals by Mike but he made some suggestions that I still use in my work today. Angelina also had some very strong points...at the time my images were kind of dark. Once I stepped back and looked at my photos I realized that both of them were right. Both critiques have helped shape my work and the suggestions I received from both were very influential in the direction I took. I owe Angelina and Mike a huge debt of gratitude. In a few years time I'll probably look back at my work today and think that it really sucks LOL. I'm sure I still have a long way to go but you know what? That's okay, it's part of the journey.

First critique actually would be my mom when I was a kid maybe around 8 or 9? She did not automatically give everything the rubber stamp of approval. Never mean about it but here is what she would say " well, that's nice but it's not your best work". Still gives me honest opinions now. NEVER forget the first time she said that! Omg...inside I bristled up and was thinking....what do you mean it's not my 'best' work! Best thing she could have done though in the long run but it really stung that first time out :o)

Second critique was when I was about 10? My dad had a friend who was a working traditional artist.Dad of course had me show some of my pencil drawings to him. He said to make sure the subject is always grounded (mine were 'floating' in the air).

Next would've be the instructors at college (commercial art). At the time that included drawing, typography, photography, etc classes so I consider every grade put on a project a critique in addition to anything an instructor said in person when they would come around. Had art and photo classes in high school but nothing I would consider a critique there.

Last was Mike and also several others from here in the Raw Critique group. Also Thomas has critiqued some too in threads here. I am not opposed to critiques, learned that part of a critique is based on technical aspects, part on someone's life/art experience and part is based on subjective opinion. The subjective part is the area you learn to consider, roll it around and then take it or leave it but never get mad that it was offered.

Critiques at first, are a bit painful to swallow but if you are ultimately like me, they do make you work harder and give you an awareness and objectivity about your work that is not easy at first. Easier later though and your work will improve or you will fold and give up...one or the other!

Well I still think a sale is an awful good critique!

It is why I enjoy selling at shows. The interaction you get with the customers. Of course you get snide comments like Andy mentioned but when you get someone fawning over your work it is a good feeling. Even better when they break out the credit card. Even better when they break out the credit card really fast!

I have had repeat customers come to my booth now and that is a good feeling when they search for you a year later to buy something else.

I had a guy that wanted a shot but his wife said "where will you put it" and he left. Ten minutes later he rushed back in said "I thought of a place to put it" and bought it!

Like my first critique I remember the first image I sold to a stranger. I don't think I will ever forget that.

Of course, I always find I lean toward the "it's crap" attitude on my work. I think that is the best way to push yourself to keep working harder. I think sometimes people hear "it's crap" (from someone that knows) and quit. I don't think those people have much of a chance of making it in this business. I think the reason my class had a 50% dropout rate was because that was the first time some of these kids were ever told their stuff was crap. Mommy and Daddy told them all their life they were special and can do whatever they want. They could do no wrong. I was almost 40 when I took that class and I think that helped me not take what he said personally. I think we get better at handling criticism as we get older. At least I think we should. If not you may not be getting deep enough into life. Playing it too safe.

When I started creating vulture sculptures in earnest (as a form of therapy), I was receiving praise from many of my friends....I couldn't trust their remarks...So, I put pieces in a friend's furniture shop, just to eaves drop on strangers to hear what they "really" think....Not only did they think they were kinda strange, they started buying them.....And that started the whole thing, that I am still doing 40 years later.

My Grandfather taught me how to print B&W starting when I was 11, without ever setting foot in my darkroom. I would make work prints of the shots I liked and sit down with him as he used a red china marker to indicate where to dodge, burn and crop. If he didn't think it was worth printing he'd tear it up.

I'd make the mile and a half bike ride over to his house, he'd review them and keep marking them up until they were perfect.

I was able to get a job as a printer in a major lab in NYC right out of HS because of that.

Second major critique was from a portrait and wedding photographer that I was working for. Real old school kind of guy. Showed him some shots I took of a friend who was a stripper at the time. She was wearing a black leather and latex outfit and I shot her on a pink background with hot pink gels ( it was the 80's ). He hated it. Tore into me about the background and how "this kind of crap is ruining photography". Asked him about the lighting on the subject, posing etc. and he said all excellent but you ruined it with the background. Showed the same image to Dean Collins a couple of weeks later and he loved it.

Learned there that criticism is always subjective.

pleasantries are just that. They are not critiques.
My first critiques started in Junior High School....two competing art teachers were arguing over my submission to a district wide contest. The other art teacher was claiming I copied the faces. My own teacher defended my originality. It got ugly. I was a mere pawn.

It was a career altering moment, and something at the time (1989) I was begging for. I've written published articles about the experience so I won't dwell on whats been articulated in detail. I can say the WORST thing for a relatively new photographer with only a few (6-7 years) experience is to be told on a consistent basis "how great thou art".

My experience was from a famous photographer I met at a book signing while I lived out in Montana and was photographing in Glacier Park. His name is/was Gordon Sullivan, and I was deeply moved by his work as we shared a deep reverence for nature and wilderness. I was able to have a wonderful chat with him, purchased his books and had him sign for me. I had a collection of my best work (duplicate slides) I kept in my car while traveling and it did not take much to twist his arm a bit and show him what I felt was my best efforts after about 6 or 7 years.

It wasn't about what he liked or critiqued that made an impact, it was an impromptu motivational talk that made me realize in an instant I had not been committing myself to the extent I needed to attain my goals. I recall I had been somewhat grumpy, looking only for the "Grand landscape trophy shots" driving east and west along Going-To-The-Sun-Road and made some comment toward him about "not being able to really get great images from near the road". His reply to me may not have been as monumental as he expected, however I've embraced it and made it part of my life. He simply asked, "Are You Looking"??

LOL, my wife says I didn't speak for about a week...Just beat myself to death and realized I needed to get off the high horse I was riding and completely restructure my thought process and approach to photography. I thought I had been on the right path at the time, I was being published and a regular contributor to a half dozen automotive magazines (I started as an automotive photographer)

I don't know if Mr Sullivan is even alive, I've searched regularly. I only wish to shake his hand and thank him for a few simple words he offered almost 30 years ago that helped shape my career and motivate me

My first real critique was a discussion I put up about a certain photo in an area where I had no previous experience in at all. Most of the comments were telling me what I could've done a lot better, but I definitely learned a lot from that. Also, it brought me many new techniques and people that I know more about now.

"I think the reason my class had a 50% dropout rate was because that was the first time some of these kids were ever told their stuff was crap."

My two-year adventure at The Colorado Institute of Art (when it was a separate, independent school) saw a 79% drop-out rate. It was an incredible experience, even though one or two of the instructors would have made Genghis Khan proud.

It was pretty much learn or die. I learned. And graduated. And prospered.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

In my masters program, only 4 passed the thesis and presentation, out of 20 something.

Do you think that environment helped you Dan?

Lol! ''Your the DEATH to Creativity" Was a quote I do remember....as well as I was hopeless and lacked vision....oh and when I reciprocated with "maybe you should open your mind" I was called a BRAT and told I was disrespectful................ didn't hurt my feelings....it fuelled an already burning fire.

I also had a harsh Art teacher who gave me a thick skin........a good thing to have in the art world.

EDIT: one time I handed in a drawing early (I was in a hurry to get out of class) ....my teacher ripped it up in front of everyone and made me start over as she snarled "you can do better"........something she instilled in me. *Bravo to her*

My first critique was from a professor in Fine Art:- I like your gift,you can start tomorrow!(It was a portrait of Odd Nerdrum).The next day I was working on a Oil sketch.He said:- Now!Your
crap Is starting to sing! After that day I did not paint for a month. Some years later I was a student of a very good artist He said my work was good and that was very good for me because I always did think my work was good.

"Do you think that environment helped you Dan?"

Immensely. The real world of art, commercial art and marketing has been a piece of cake compared to the CIA. Laws probably prohibit that sort of school today.

We would often, in mid-afternoon, get pulled away from whatever we were working on and given an assignment.
"Critiques are at 5pm."
Umm!! School ends at 4!!
"Not today. Call whoever you need to call."

That goes on in the real world, too. And I was more than ready. The CIA is where I learned all about Creativity On Demand and Inspiration Is For Amateurs.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

As I was first getting into railroad photography, I shared a shot I was pretty happy with. I didn't ask for a critique, but boy I got one.

"Was it positive?" No, he pretty much said the shot sucked and that I should have watched out for a shadow that was falling on the second train engine.

"What about it was positive?" Nothing at the time, but it did make me look at the shot and realize he was right.

"Did it hurt your feelings? Why?" Yes, because I thought it was a decent shot and this guy tore through it very quickly. I wasn't used to critiques and it hurt... until I look at it again and realized he was making some good points.

"Was it from Mike?!" This was sometime between 1999 and 2001 from a decent railroad photographer. I was 13 years or so away from coming to these forums.

Yes. It was Mike Savad. Some people probably cringe thinking about him critiquing their work. I was glad he was honest enough to really say what he thinks. We can always learn from others with more experience. If you are thinned skin don't ask others what they think of your work. If you truly want to learn something listen to what others have to say. For me it was a learning experience. Thank you Mike.

"Immensely. The real world of art, commercial art and marketing has been a piece of cake compared to the CIA."

I thought you would answer that way Dan.

I guess there is a lesson there. The "real" world isn't nice and pleasant and polite. Sometimes it is. Nobody needs "training" in how to deal with the nice parts. They need preparation for the harsh reality part.

"Inspiration Is For Amateurs"

You can be creativ on demand without any great inspiration.But you cant create a great work of Art without any inspiration.
Just because your a creativ artist ,dosent make you a great artist.

Mine was by a stock agency. They showed me how to look at focus through a loop back in the days of shooting slides. The second time was the same stock agency. The told me I needed to mature as a photographer before I came back. I never went back but I am in a different stock agency now.

The first "real" critique - oh yes - I was accepted in a group called the Hi Desert Watercolor Society (there is more than one) in CA. Once a month there was a 'mandatory' meeting - you had to bring one newly finished work, or one that was mostly finished, for critique - her name was "Jean" - she was kind - that first meeting I attended - but I've seldom met anyone else with her ability to examine a work of art - and not so much tell you what was 'wrong' with it - but ask those questions that would make you feel like a small child who has just broken grandma's favorite flower vase.

I only saw one full on, as in contact sports, critique in one of my studio classes.

If there were ten students (it was 9 to 11, dont remember exactly) there easily could have
been a 90% drop out rate when I was done. Done critiquing my own work. People
were complaining very very bitterly that if that is what it took to be an artist they
wanted no part of it. I am very tough on my art and dont mind this in the least...

....when it comes to my art.....I do mind people arguing in public over my art
when I have no intention of listening to them. That is just pushy. With my work I turn on a dime
when I want a different aesthetic.

I put up very different website on WP .org as my first attempt. I saw the shouting.
I then got to thinking about more or other goals for a website and wanted to add pages,
so I went to work on my second website a few days later. I took me about four hours to build
a second website on WP .org. In the process of making the second website I came to understand
my foul ups on the first try. The whole process was rather fast. It had nothing to do with other people's
thinking.

I hate Linkedin's artists' groups. Most of the art groups, I have only taken a few cursory looks, seem
to have newbies running down a catwalk. Showing art to other artists. It is like a fashion show where folks
are supposed to be prancing around. Not for me. I will find my own way.

Dave
bridburg.com

I can't remember my first critique but certainly have had both positive and negative experiences. Positive in that something is learned even though my piece is completely vivisected. Negative as in "this is crap, you should give up since you obviously don't have the developed aesthetics required to be a proper artist" and "let's spend the rest of the time talking about how many BMWs I own and how much success I have because I work harder than anyone else". Hey, I'm the one paying for this class. Remember? Where's the real critique?

One very disturbing trend universities seem to be adopting is the "art boot camp". These are meant to introduce art and design concepts in a sink or swim fashion. However, boot camp to me connotes training to the point that actions are reflexive under duress because thinking about it would take too much time. An education should be about learning how to think for ourselves and problem solve, referring back to masters before to see how they might have approached a problem while looking to what experience one's peers might be bringing to the process. And these "boot camps" seem to be exactly that: little practical skill that would require quick action, like learning how to throw a pop up show or budget materials for a show, and more indoctrination to become future consumers of that particular school's or professor's style. Not much time spent on actual critiquing either, so I'm still learning. Has anyone else come from something like this?

It was worse than a critique - it was actual graffiti: the teach had set an unattended task of a still-life drawing.

To be done over a few consecutive mornings while she was away in Europe, she hadn't properly explained what she wanted. What she wanted were a few variations in a number of sketches. What she got were a bunch of illustrators left to their own devices, who took their sweet time over a single detailed sketch.

She wanted impressions, she got details, and she wasn't happy - going over every one heavily with her thick black pencil to accentuate the shadow, line, and highlights.

And destroy.


I suspect her trip took in perhaps a few too many galleries (and possibly a tough instructor of her own), and before she'd left she didn't even know what she wanted. But now she knew what she wanted to be. Anything but a teacher.

And she soon got her wish.

My first critique was from Mike Savad.

He had a thread open offering critiques on your work and biography and was offering advice on how to improve. As I was reading through the thread, I started to hesitate requesting a critique because Mike was very honest and straight-forward about what he thought and many people seemed offended when they received honest feedback that they didn't want to hear. Others were happy to receive the feedback, whether it be good or bad. I had a feeling I may regret asking for a critique about my work and biography, but I wanted someone that was going to be honest and up-front rather than just saying "It looks good" just to be nice. Mike was the person I wanted giving me my first critique because I knew he would help by showing me where I could improve and let me know if my work was sub-standard. I had already made changes to my biography based upon prior reviews I had read in that thread, but I also wanted my work critiqued.

Then it came....
What negative things was he going to say about my work? And what could I improve on?
Not what I was expecting.
I was very happy with the feedback and it inspired me to add more work to the site. Mike gave me positive feedback and felt my work could sell on this site. He was right. Within a couple months, I was making sales and have made sales almost every month since then.

I've had a few others review my work since then, but Mike was the first and probably the most inspiring feedback I received. Thanks Mike!