Patience Is Hard To Come By...

I am liking this Avatar.

Patience . It took a while to create you - didn't it ? & you're fabulous. So enjoy the ride.

Like the avatar too, great lighting effect...just keep honing your craft and don't worry about sales too much yet. How many are buyers views vs bots and other artists? Can't know for sure.

Every single day you should be practicing your craft and focusing on building a body of work rather then fretting about selling.

"five plus months of having a premium membership" - this is meaningless.

Took me about a year to sell anything, as it does most people I think. And I still don't sell alot. Looks like you got some decent stuff. Like you said it just takes patience.

But look at all the great friends you are gaining...hard to eat, but maybe better in long run!

"I am going to keep uploading and refining my work regardless of the results,..."

Stay focused on your own words . . .
and as Edward said, being here 5 plus months has nothing to do with anything related to sales.
Keep in mind that it takes patience to become patient.
Success in sales is not a sprint Parker - it is a marathon.


--Donna Proctor

Parker, that's why it's often referred to as a virtue. My thoughts on this is a follows, I have heard this same complaint over and over again, now I really focus on selling a different product than you but I have just started with the POD idea and although I am no expert on marketing prints, this is what I thought I might do down the road. I will choose several, maybe 6 of my favorites sculpture images (my best work) and have them printed in different sizes and styles. I would then find venues to present them to the public and have a laptop with me to show any interested parties all my work and give them the opportunity to buy on the spot any prints they like or at least expose them to my work on FAA that way.

Thanks everyone! Mario, that is a very unique idea!

You can't see it yet, because you are standing in the middle of it; it's called growth. Growth as a creative, growth as a business person, and growth as a member in the community. I'm not going to preach patience, you already know about that. What I can tell you is that in time, it all starts to fall into place. If only there were an answer that didn't sound like a pep talk or a pat on the head.

Unfortunately there is only reality. That people aren't buying your work is the reality that all of us deal with in some fashion or another. Waiting for the customer that will one day buy your work is a long and suffering chore. Using your time to build your portfolio and to develop your brand will create the momentum that builds a career. Look to your future as the place where you want to arrive with a strong background you've taken the time to build.

When you get there, all this angst will be something that you can look back on, and appreciate it for what it was.

-YoPedro

Great advice Yo Pedro. Got a lot out of it!

Five months is a blink of an eye, especially to a kid like yourself. Consider some of us with a little more age than you and how this could come across. You don't even know what patience is yet. My apologies if this comes across as harsh and I'm not aiming at a forum vacation, but I am just following Parker's train of thought. There are plenty of FAA veterans who have not made a sale in that time period and others who may not have made a sale after a year or more. They have invested some serious money and time into their craft as well. My own gear did not come cheap, but it came out of my pocket.

Just keep working. Sales will either come or they won't.

Hey Parker..

There is of course no real answer to your concerns... there is just no guessing on what will or will not sell on any particular day.

I think you know all about the impact of proper tagging, descriptions, titles etc.. But... [ there is always a but ;O) ] I think no matter the quality / quantity of your [ general your ] work, you need something that stands out from the crowd. As you know there are ALOT of members trying to sell the same images that you are trying to sell. You have to present images that will make the customer stop when yours appear in their search.

There is also the decision of who you want as an audience. Meaning for example do you want to create art for artists/collectors, or art for wall decoration.

Ultimately your work will be purchased to hang on a wall, look at each of your images and ask.. if this wasn't your image would you purchase it to hang on your wall. This is not a comment on your work... I am not qualified for that ;O) And as I said above there is just no guessing on will sell [ just look at the recent sales page ;O) ]

I think technically you are on your way.. subject matter and presentation may something to explore more. Follow what ever path you want, but really there are enough flowers, butterflys, horses etc here already ;O) but if that is your interest, then make them the best flower, butterfly, horse images available here on FAA ;O)

bob

44k views, nearly 10 months premium, 360 images. I have sold 1card, 1 case and recently pack of 10 cards. No print sale. Tell me about patience: )) Probably no renewal for my premium membership.

As far as what sells and what doesn't, there are a few artists and photographers here, like Martin, that wshen I hear they don't sell more, I am shocked. But, really, I don't know what sells and what doesn't. I have 25,000+/- views, but I haven't made a sale in 7,000 views. Yes, I keep a mental note. No, I don't know why. The truth is, it takes one view to make one sale. I saw a guy on here that sold an image of a flour mill here in Columbia, SC that I have multiple shots of on FAA. He has one image and it sold. He was new to FAA and as I recall, had 600 views total to his portfolio. The image he sold was not keyworded nearly as much as mine, which have been on site for a year or more in some cases. For some reason, his sold and mine did not. I got real upset about that for about five minutes, then realized there was no point. What sales and what doesn't? Who the heck knows?

I've told this story before, too. I deleted about ten or fifteen images a year or more that I didn't think were good enough to be here. I came to one in particular and something told me not to delete it. My normal reaction would have been "If there is any question, go ahead and delete it." But I didn't. Not sure why. Two days later,it sold. Go figure.

The problem with the concept of patience is that it implies that somehow the world owes you something because you did X,Y and Z. Any sale you make is taken away from someone else. You have to want it more, provide better work and most importantly solve the buyers problem.

The buyer has a need that needs to be fulfilled. It will be fulfilled by someone. They could care less about how many social medias sites you are on or how long you've been selling. If you don't have what they are looking for, you don't get the sale.

99% of sellers here will post their work and sit around and wait for a sale. Most will give up after a few months. Thank goodness because there are not enough sales to go around.

To put things in perspective, Van Gogh only sold one painting while he was alive, and it was just months before his death. If you've sold 2 images, then you're doing better than Van Gogh could accomplish in a lifetime.

sales take time. this summer was very slow for some reason. but your new, and it could take years before people notice you. usually its the style that sells, and that takes years to get something where people know its yours. all you can do is plug along, advertise to who you can.


i would revamp the bio, remove words like hope you will like it. that block of text that says you choose them carefully (that's the assumption for everyone, you would send junk it should always be your best). outline what you sell.

mostly things that sell are things you would put on your own wall. while an image may be technically sharp, nice, etc, it may not match anything inside, or go with anything inside. so you might have a nice shot of a nest or a duck, it may not fit into a livingroom and such. where as a nice barn shot taken at the crack of dawn may fit better. its often not what you take, but when.


---Mike Savad

on average, it will take 3 or more months before one of mine sells. some sit for years. if i sat and waited it would seem like forever, but i keep making more and more and more. and eventually it sells. but it takes a lot of work. many think art is easy, you can lay back watch the money come in, but as your seeing here, its hard like any other job.

---Mike Savad

Hang in there, Parker.

I'm new here to FAA, but sold some of my fine art photography privately the last several years before FAA. Haven't had a sale through FAA yet, but I can tell you, for me, a sale would happen when I least expected it. Two weeks ago, I was contacted by a fine art framer in Dallas, Texas who wanted a discount on one of my photos. She said a customer saw it here on FAA and wanted 36"x24" print and wanted it framed by her. The framer asked for a discount for the person interested and I gave them a 25% off discount code, but for some reason, the print was never purchased. So at least, that tells me that someone out there saw it here first. No sale, but there must be viewers with interest. I even did a price drop on all my art last week, still no bites, even with twitter, a blog, and facebook page.

As for your photography. You have the talent and natural eye for photos. That certainly is not the reason for no sales. Keep making photographs and keep busy. A sale will come out of the blue, when you least expect it.

Wow Martin! If it means anything I think your work is great. Good advice Mike and Edward, Very specific and informative.

Joseph: Why shocked? I am just not good enough for buyers in art and marketing to sell , it is simple: )
That case of the misterious flour mill sale you are tallking about, has probably simple solution. The buyer and seller knew eacg other and it was agreed trade. So no search engine was included.
Parker: Thanks, every encouragement counts:)

Parker I think everyone who has no or little sales feels that way... as I see it you are much too young to become discouraged! I read this from your bio " Ever since picking up a camera for the first time I fell in love with photography. From the sound of the shutter to the journey of getting the shot, I love going out and capturing moments with my camera! " Now... I am not so sure that is important to your bio, but it is tremendously important to your creative well being...is that a good thing to call it? I take it you are still in school...use your talents and love of photography...perhaps even there...you could no doubt get permission to shoot school activities...games...plays ...yearbook etc.. Continue to hone your art and enjoy every minute of it. None of us know when a first or last sale, for that matter, might come...but one thing is certain if you become discouraged and quit what you do... there will be no possibility of sales. Hang in there and enjoy the ride Parker!

I thought you might be interested to follow this young photographer...just recently graduated, he started out much like you. https://www.facebook.com/ZukePhoto

Parker, you have to want it, and you have to be 100% committed. Currently you have an eye for it and a bit of enthusiasm -- but so do millions of others.

If you are doing "fine art photography" for easy money, stop now unless your financial needs are tiny. If you insist on making a living with your camera, find a commercial photographer and begin your apprenticeship. That is the fastest way to develop your craft, learn some business, understand what sells (and why), and make valuable contacts.

You don't know what you don't know. Without total immersion and total commitment, photography -- for you -- will be little more than a passing fancy.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Dan Turner has a valid point. Working for a commercial photographer is a great way to learn the business. But it's not easy. The number of people who want to be a photographer's assistant is mind boggling. It can take months to get an appointment with a commercial photographer, and even then you'll be lucky to ever get a job. These are prime positions, and go to the most creative, and often the well connected.

In the beginning you may have to work as an intern for table scraps, but it's a wonderful way to get your foot in the door.

It is persistence and attitude that will win the day.

Once you start to experience what the world has to offer, you never know where that road will take you.

-YoPedro

Great point Dan. My step-uncle happens to be a famous food photographer. He has done shoots for Pepsi, El Paso, and other companies like that.
I would love to head over to his studio in Dallas for a few summers and intern with him. He has said he would love having me there.
While I would rather do landscape photography than a food shoot, I think it would be a good start and lead to some interesting opportunities.

i would go with that. while you may not be into food stuff, you could pick up still life info which makes other things easier. with food it's more of a matter of making the props look good. using raw meat with stain and burning in strips and making the food look good, rather than just shooting it. others will make it using digital art. but either case, take the free lessons.

---Mike Savad

Yes...I'm in the same boat...still waiting for that first sale. But, in the mean time...I'm uploading more and more images, refining keywords, etc., etc., etc. I know that first sale will eventually come...and I 'm thinking that things might pick up around Christmas. By then, I will have a lot more to choose from in my FAA galleries. So the waiting is good...like everyone else has said....just use this time, to keep at it...learning, uploading, growing, refining, etc., etc., etc.

Best wishes to you! You have some wonderful work! And, I, too love your avatar!

Tribulation worketh patience, so you are right about it being hard to come by. I am going to start envisioning my artwork being sold, printed and shipped. I have a daughter that envisions money falling on her as she sleeps, She is pretty well off, I guess it works. She says, "never let it fall on your face" That way you don't get smothered.

As I said Parker... technique is important, but so is style... technique can be learned... style has to come from you. And I personally think that style sells here more than technically correct images. Remember it is not likely that true photograph collectors are coming to FAA to purchase art more likely just your average person that just wants something for their walls and that something usually has to have some "style". And that style needs to be Parker's style.. not someone else's ;O)

bob

I have been downloading some of my art a few days and nothing is showing up. I have had 14 pics on for quite a while and have never been able to put any more on I finally wrote to tech support tonight. Now I am getting impatient to find what is wrong, does anyone know?

Your work is wonderful, Parker! Patience...you have to have it in here. I started in January of 2010...I did not get my first sale for just over a year. I was a marketing nut then, and I'm the same now...you just stick with it. I now have over 500 sales, 3,500 images, 625 followers, and 1,500,000 views. Patience!!

Diane, I am sure your sale will come soon! Good to hear your successful story David and wish you many more sales! Very true Bob. I am getting Photoshop soon, so hopefully I will be able to refine my editing style a bit more and make it more unique to me.

don't force a style. a style will simply come. you may find yourself favoring certain kinds of shots. either because you like them or because that's what you have in the area. one day you'll try something, maybe accidentally and you might like that better. i played with mine for years and years and years, and i'm still tweaking it. trying to get it that much better, or unique. its no easy task though. just play with it. experiment, digital makes it faster to learn something than if you born 30 years ago.

---Mike Savad

Parker, for what its worth, I think your photography and your eye is fantastic. Especially for someone your age. Keep at it. I see a very promising future as a photographer.

I have been on here since 2007!! Yes, I guess that makes me a veteran! lol..I have only about 22,000 views on the Fineartamerica counter but earlier, like years before, I loaded one of those map counters to my page. I have over 10,000 vies and more country flags than I knew ever existed! I have only had about 5 sales. I promote my site too and most sales were just the last year. I sometimes wonder what more can I do here to make more sales. Or what am I doing wrong. I joined groups..post work..like..comment..idk...A lot of the people here have posted some good insight and positive things. I myself recently, have pondered not being a member anymore too. I have been for 2 years now but for me, I like my personal site and will be staying with mine. Patience is the key and like someone else said...just keep loading and creating and your portfolio will flourish with more and more great stuff! I know I have put out more things in the last year than years combined and am very happy with the way mine is looking today. Just don't give up because that day will come and when you log in and you will see your first sale and honestly it is a great feeling; regardless of how long it takes! Good Luck

Fini - you need to upload.


Career planning info:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes274021.htm

Not wanting to touch your subject right now...but I wanted to say I love your new avatar Parker. =)

I think I'm going to purchase some of my own work; maybe about a 1000.00 dollars worth. Then I'm going to take it where I go, pushing the idea that I have very large originals and my work can be purchased on FAA in larger sizes. I'm not sure this is a good idea, but if I'm not investing in myself, who else will? I've always been a pushover when it comes to investing in my own ideas and easily pushed into the boring concept that something else comes before me. Thank you FAA for awesome shopping.

@Lisa sounds like a great idea! I would also take along a lap top to show them your FAA gallery it gives you more of an opportunity to sell, I had this very idea in mind I just have not gotten around to doing it, I want to at some point and some event, have both my originals sculptures and prints of the sculptures to show.

I'm going to get up on a soapbox for a minute, if you don't want to hear it.....skip over my post now.

Stop worrying about views, everyone wants to talk about how many views they have, views are irrelevant. Parker, you are active on the forum, and a compelling story (being young). Alot of people love you and for good reason. I bet 100 of those views are from me.....and I'm not buying your work (not that it isn't good enough for me to, just out of wall space). Extrapolate that over the forum.....and thats where alot of your views come from. Views....quite simply.....mean NOTHING because there is no way to tell if a view is a fellow artist, or a bot, or a potential buyer. My highest viewed piece has sold I think twice, it has over 3x the views of the piece that has accounted for 50% of my profits over the past two years.......I don't care about the views, I care about the paypal payment. If you want to make a living at this, you should too.

Focus on the work you create #1. Without it, you won't grow. Then take the step and get some prints, and some business cards with your artists website......and start shaking hands meeting people and selling your work.....or learn to be patient. Either way this is a marathon, not a sprint. You can push it faster if you have the will, the sales chops, and the personality. I personally think you do.

Put your head down, and think nothing but what you can do today to get closer to your goal, and give it 3 years. No doubt, no worry, just work, hard, every single day. You'll make it....at least in my opinion. This business is going to bust you in the chops over and over and over again, thats just reality, thats just life.

Yep...I did mention that earlier in the thread about you don't know who the views are coming from...fellow artists, bots, or buyers...

My first sale here had either 3 or 5 views when it sold. It was in an unsaturated category and that makes a big difference.

Thank you Mario for your response. I love the idea of the business card because so many people around me are interested in my artwork. Most of them unfortunately are not real buyers so I pay little attention to them. I'm going to a new job in a few weeks that I'm very excited about and I know people will have a lot of curiosity after the first person announces that I'm an artist. I want a nice bag to hold my work in as well as an ability to show people my gallery. All this sounds like so much fun to me, I just need to relax and be nice...gosh did I mention I hate being nice? (a small laugh and snort)

I have never looked at my views on this site. With all the bots why pay attention to something that is not realistic, it will just make you think and wonder more.

Everything takes time Parker, stick with it and the sales will come. Take the internship with your uncle, absorb everything, learn all you can! What an amazing opportunity--you never know what it could lead to!! Nice work, keep going :)))

"Most of them unfortunately are not real buyers so I pay little attention to them"


No offense, but that is a mistake. People that don't buy your art may know someone who might, it's best to treat every experience like a potential sale. This has happened to me where a woman saw my airplane art, showed no interest, and then her husband came in the next day and bought 2 pieces.

Someone here said that it takes 10 years to become an overnight success. Put your stuff on other sites too like Zazzle etc..I finally did that just a few days ago.

I won't be here much longer myself.

Hi Parker - hang in their man. Patience is a virtue (I lost mine a lot of years ago. oh - that was a different virtue). All you (and I) can do is keep on marketing. As the old saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day".

Yo Pedro, wise words and they really helped me too as I am feeling the same. What a great community of people to be a part of. In reply to everyone, I am very proud to be a part of the FAA family and I too will keep creating as that is what this is all about, creating from your heart and imagination.

luke: "i cant believe it!"

yoda: "thats why you fail."

;)

Parker, I know you are excited to share your passion and make some money doing what you love, but I really believe that at your age you should be focusing your time, effort, energy and attention on nurturing your talents and growing your skills. Before the days of instant internet gratification, it was much easier for us to do this, but it is still important. Getting very hung up on sales at such an early stage of your artistic development and creative career will only distract you.