Effective Paid Advertising

I can share that I have had 0 success in the past with paid advertising for my salon biz. I know this is not the same as the art business but........ Did the coupon mailer thing once under duress. My dad was convinced it was a good idea and helped cover the cost. I was correct though...it was a waste of money. Had a full article (local women's magazine) written about my salon and permanent makeup with pictures and everything. Did the editors brows, eyes and lips in trade for the article and advertising for several months. Only thing I got from that was the person who 'won' a procedure by entering the drawing on the mag's online page. Was mentioned in two other articles (free), the one in the local newspaper did bring a couple of people, the other one didn't.

My suggestion would be if you have a website outside of FAA, pay Google for a Google ad or to move your website up in search traffic - that is generated by meta data on your website and then direct them to purchase here.

I've spent in the millions of clients and my own money on search engine advertising with fair to staggering returns over the last 15 years.

The key was being able to precisely measure success. What keyword and keyword attributes (location, keyword match type, etc..) led to a sale and if not a sale, what activity it did lead to.

Art was never in the mix so I don't know what the conversion rates are like. Just based on recent views and sales not lining up sometimes I'd guess that there is a longer consideration time between seeing artwork for the first time and buying it than say women's shoes or tulip bulbs which could make tracking tricky even if it was possible.

In any case I'd guess that advertising on Google/Bing would be the best bet and potentially deliver the highest return. In the past Bing tended to deliver the best return on investment but Google delivers 10x the volume. The problem is you can't measure success using FAA because the stats are not available. That would be the case with any advertising directed here.

It might still be worth it but you won't know what worked and what didn't. A coupon in the ad text would be about the only way to sort of track anything.

Since I can't track results I don't spend money advertising for work on FAA.

A small test with ads linking to limited time promotions might actually make sense. Since almost nobody finds them on the website, if ads pointed to those it would be pretty safe to assume sales came from advertising.

Adam, you can use Google Analytics on your Artist Website - maybe that could help? I'm no expert but surely will follow this discussion as I have some bucks left from a Google Adwords Coupon I get some time ago... ;-)

I've done a variety of offline advertising over the years from notice boards to magazines with minimal return. Google advertising has definitely been the best across the board. Facebook paid advertising increases the number of 'likes' but that dosn't necessarily transfer to sales.

If you don't have a website -not just a facebook - but a website with your own domain name, pay for that to be done - and make sure the SEO is done properly. It dosn't have to be big or expensive, but it does need to be well designed and easy to navigate and obviously show your prints for sale on your artist website. Make sure you have google analytics or another good analytics program installed so you can track the effectiveness of whatever advertising and promotion you use now and in the future.

Then pay for google advertising specific to your target marketing using keywords that will get you the returns...that either means paying a decent whack of money to a reputeable SEO expert - or spending a LOT of time learning how to maximise google advertising.

Paying for advertising directed to your profile page or artist website here on FAA might help in short term sales, but would not be IMO a prudent long term use of your marketing dollars. There is a limit to the SEO that you can do here, whereas on your own website your SEO opportunities are endless (as long as you know what you are doing).

Hello Angelina,

I had a look through your profile page and for some of your work there are free adds to be had here:

http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1983574

@Matthias - I think its possible to track traffic to AWS but not tie sales back to anything, at least as far as I know?

Is that not the case?

Adam, I only scratched the surface with AWS and Google Analytics and have no idea, sorry... ;-)

Paid advertising works. No doubt about it. Just drive down the road. Look at the billboards. Open a newspaper or a magazine. Go to your mailbox. Turn on the radio, or the television. We are surrounded by paid advertising. If it did not work, then we would not be exposed to so very much of it.

See link below.

The big problem is how to direct your advertising dollars in such a way as to be productive. Which is why I am going to follow this thread and pay careful attention to any ideas that are put forth.

As I understand it sales are generated by informing potential buyers that you have a product/service that will meet their needs/desires. ONE of the aims of advertising is to suggest to the potential buyer that they have a need/desire that they may not be aware of.

I love the show, Mad Men! Many of the foundations of successful advertizing were laid in the time period that this television show was set.

As to the medium of online paid advertising I too am looking to garner more information. Yet I submit there is much more than simply deciding on a particular search engine. Much thought should be given to writing the advertising copy, and identifying your target audience. Once one has identified the target audience one is then left to the many other facets of complex problem of deciding where your advertising dollars are best spent.

This should prove to be a great thread. I look forward to learning a great deal. Thank you, Angelina, for starting such an excellent thread.


“In 2011, $496.9 billion was spent on advertising. By 2015, this figure is expected to reach $603.1 billion.” Source:

http://lessonbucket.com/media/year-9/advertising/

@Walter

Paid advertising works. No doubt about it. Just drive down the road. Look at the billboards. Open a newspaper or a magazine. Go to your mailbox. Turn on the radio, or the television. We are surrounded by paid advertising. If it did not work, then we would not be exposed to so very much of it.

______________


I used to think in a similar manner but I am not too sure now.

Ads can be offset against tax in the UK and I would guess there is something similar in the US, so companies give their money to the adman instead of the taxman.

I am beginning to think that the prevalence of ads is as likely because of one as much as the other.

I am also beginning to believe that our belief in the effectiveness of ads is probably to do with the fact that the big sell of the advertising industry that has been "sold" to us is that they are very effective in what they do but I am beginning to believe that they are far less effective than they tell us and want us to believe, here is a full stop.

Now catch your breath.

Marketing requires consistent messaging over a long period of time. You would be better off building your own website and sending people there to become familiar with your brand rather then just send people to an FAA image. They might buy your art or they might by someone elses.

Send them to your website where they can get to know you as an artist and become invested in your persona rather then just sending them to look at a single image.

Rather than spending money on something like a Facebook ad, building up press releases and sending mailings to publications will result in better returns. An article about your work in the local paper will go farther to validate yourself as an artist then something like a burst of Google ads.

In my experience articles in lokal papers never led to a singel sale.

Ads are everywhere and people have gotten pretty good at ignoring them...in ANY form.

If I had money to spend I would try to figure out how to use it to get in front of people. I think something like a kiosk in a mall for a week may bring in a better return than 6 weeks of paid advertising. At least with something like that you could see an immediate return on your investment. People may still ignore you but you can at least see them ignoring you.

Is it even possible to rent a space in a mall for a week or two? Does anyone go to the mall anymore?

Perhaps use that money for doing art shows? One good art show should bring a better return than most advertising and you can get "face to face" with potential clients.

Most people don't get much out of their advertising for two reasons.

First, they do not understand the basics of advertising. Here is a quick test. Do you know the difference and can you give an example between direct response advertising and institutional advertising and how they work hand and hand? Would you know how to launch a campaign to maximize your exposure and attain the quality impressions you need to for it to be successful?

Second, most people are not willing to spend the time and money that it takes to have the kind of success you would like to see.

I used to spend 15% of my total yearly revs in advertising. Never less, sometimes more. I did this year in and year out. Every day, like my life depended on it, because my business's life did depend on it.

If you can not answer the question above about understanding advertising, don't wast your money before you learn more about advertising. Go to you local college and they will probably offer classes in marketing, adverting and selling.

At least search the local yellow pages and find the best ad agency in your local area. Go out of the area if you have to. Make sure they have an online element. Make an appointment and tell them exactly what you want to do.

If you are talking about online adverting, call web.com. They will do a free consultation and come back with a recommended program that will include SEO, pay for clicks and social media.

If all else fails or you don't want to do any of the above, at least listen to Edward Fielding.

There are several "free"press release companies out there. There are also several article distribution companies as well. If you like to write and if you do a blog, you should submit those blog articles to these distribution sites. They will make them available to anyone that is looking for content for their own blogs or websites.

Press releases have to be news worthy. I think I have a couple of them on my blog. I used to do a lot more of that.

I have not done an article for the distribution companies for years. But I am still getting clicks every now and then on the old articles that I have not removed.

I wish I knew how to find a target audience to market my work to.

Articles in local newspaper, blogs, press releases all go to Top Of The Mind Awareness or institutional advertising.

If done or handled properly they can be extremely effective. But an occasional article is not going to do much if anything. Plus you would not know if it sold anything or not unless the person happen to mention they saw that article. That is exactly why I used to ask every person that walked into my gallery, given the chance, how they heard of us.

Institutional advertising is the hardest sell to small business people because they are more interested in getting instant results, results they can see. That is why so many people try couponing. But that too has to be done right and not just throwing out the occasional coupon. The problem I have always had with coupoing is that you are actually training you buyers to NOT buy unless they have a coupon. Which is great for certain kinds of business.

If couponing did not work, half the pizza stores, car washes and Chinese restaurants in the world would be out of business.

When I worked in the advertising business we had a saying:

Half of the spended money is thrown away... if we only would know which half...

I had pretty good results from ArtSlant Ads in the past, and they have some nice packages.

BUT,
1. You want to look at their ads, features and reviews to make sure it's a good fit for what you'd like to present. They tend towards the abstract and conceptual.
2. The online ads are small - similar to an FAA thumbnail. So kae sure you choose things that thumbnail well (see Mike Savad's posts on getting good thumbnails)

Facebook ads have been a waste of money - more success with "organic" growth there. Google ads have not been good for my style because the audience is much more specific than the keywords - conversions tend to be low. Google's tools can be very good for learning about keywords, though.

Sorry - didn't realize that your website is the FAA artist websites profile.

You need a website that you can control first. Make it your hub for everything. Then advertise that website.

All advertising and marketing should lead to your very own website (where you can format, add widgets, add links etc to your heart's content). That's the hub. The "spokes" are your blog, houzz, zazzle, POD, Facebook, whatever you want people to find. Your website shout point people OUT towards those places in a natural navigable way, but only after they've come to your website and seen some of your work presented EXACTLY the way you want it.

Bluehost is offering an attractive 3 year package with Wordpress installed and all of the goodies for just under $200 (check this). Something like this would allow you to present multiple images of originals (flat face on shot + different lighting, frames, details, textures, etc). You would also be able to put some "buy me now" buttons on your originals. Lots of people don't like to contact artists and aren't sure they'll actually be able to get a response. The "buy me now" buttons let them purchase originals online the way they're used to purchasing everything else.

If you have a Square swipe for festivals, you can now open a free online e-commerce shop, powered by square. Your shop will link to your swipe payment app and track inventory for you too.

Website first, THEN advertise.

I earned my living for 35 years from advertising, but it wasn't called advertising. It was called television.

But free television is advertising, with some helpful, informative or entertaining content thrown in.

As was wisely said above, consistency is the key to successful advertising.

Some say it takes over 100 exposures before it even makes a connection.

When I worked for local television, I got to know local advertisers. I saw some of them come in, barely able to afford a 30-second spot. But they were consistent.

Years later, several of them were millionaires.

The closest thing I have been able to do with my art advertising is to post it on Craigslist, for example. I post daily and I get some responses. But I keep posting and posting for, before long, when someone suddenly thinks of art, they will know that they can find my adds there and they will call me. (That's my theory, anyway.)

And I agree that you should have your own website. Posting prices is a burden, however, so I pay Yahoo to forward my personal website address to my AWS here.

That way the customer has more assurance that they are not going to get ripped off, and they have a 30-day return policy.

My website is http://ChuckStaley.com if you want to see how that works. (Not trying to sell you art. You probably already have plenty!)

(Thanks for listening, and I'll leave the light on.)

(Bet you know who's add that is.)

There is nothing wrong with advertising your AW. In fact there are some attractive incentive to do just that. It is working quit well for me.

The functionality of your FAA AW is just fine. Other then cosmetics and a few horns and whistles, I don't see where it is lacking in any basic features that would really increase sales enough to offset the additional money and time maintaining two websites would require.

Getting spread too thin both money and time wise is not to your advantage. Spending money to advertise a site that basically sends some one to some other page is not, in my opinion, a good plan.

What site do you concentrate your adverting on? Can you do both effectively?

How much time does it take to maintain both FAA and a separate website?

Go look at a few dozen or hundred stand alone websites of some of the most famous artist in America. Look at their web counters if they have one. Most of them have taken them off their pages so you may not fine as many as you used to. You will be shocked at how few hits some of these people are getting.

I have several artist that I have direct dealership arrangements with. Most of them have web pages of their own but they also have a full time person working it for them. In many case they are family members.

I think if you are making good money or have money or have someone that will work for fee, a separate web page is a great idea. But if you are tying to do everything yourself. I think focusing on your AW will pay off better then getting spread too thin.

Mostly just commenting so I can follow this as I plan on spending money in the spring.

Right now, I have two magazines that will target certain demographics that should be interested in my art. While I will not be able to tell if a sale is generated by the ad IF the ads work then I should see an increase in revenue. Assuming that revenue increase is at least as much as the ads cost then it will be a success. Time will tell.

I have been in the local newspaper two times, possibly one or two more sales than usual following that. A large local magazine that covers the entire Gulf Coast a few years ago did a story with 3 or 4 pages of large picts. of my art, nothing that I could speak of as far as more sales. I was so excited and sure that these would generate mega sales, but alas!
I know that marketing knowledge is the key to success in sales, I just have not figured that part out yet.LOL

Floyd,
If you're a photographer or digital artist and giclees are the way people enjoy your art, then the AW provides a very neat and clear platform to market your work. The single image display is fine for prints, very "What you see is what you get".

For painters like me and like Angelina, it's a bit trickier if we want to sell our originals as well as giclees.
- The AW listings include information on originals, but no checkout and direct buy mechanism for original art.
- The prints and print options are featured first and foremost, and you have to hunt a bit for the price and size of the original
- The single flat on image display for prints doesn't work very well for anything that has a non-flat aspect. For example texture or sculptural elements, or different media or brushstrokes for that matter. These are exactly the things that collectors of original paintings want to see and understand.

I've sold a bunch or original paintings off of my website, which gets a small fraction of the traffic that FAA does. The only times I've sold an original with FAA somewhere in the loop, the collector either
1. Saw my work elsewhere - with better original paintings presentation - and then refound me on FAA (non-FAA presentation made the sale). FAA comes up high on google, and the contact link is convenient for them
2. Saw my work on FAA and then looked through the better presentation of the original on my website.

I have never sold an original where the collector saw the piece for the first time on FAA, and then contacted me through FAA to close the sale. They always hunt around for more images of the piece, easier to navigate biographical and show history information, maybe they want artwork descriptions that can actually use punctuation for clarity, etc. (I track their movements through analytics software, and I ask how they found me)

Without a website of her very own, Angelina's potential customers have nowhere to go for supplemental art images and information, and she can't provide a seamless online purchasing option for original paintings

I spent 35 bucks on face book. I think it resulted in about 10 likes. lol But if I run across some extra cash I am going to look into the Post Office services. We all get junk mail but some of it is pretty cleverly packaged and I do take a look at it. I'm thinking that maybe some bulk mailing rates advertising. Did you ever look into the car magnets?

Chuck, how did you post your art on Craigslist? I posted once and my post was removed by Craigslist. I was told since I was the artist of the painting I was considered a business and therefore my post was considered to be commercial advertising, which is not allowed in the free listings. Do you pay for commercial listings?

I tried some advertising years ago, before I migrated from POD's to my own website. I've tried some advertising with my own website since.

The Artslant ads in particular do not work well if they direct people to a POD profile or website. From looking at the content on their site, I would guess that the audience is looking for original contemporary art, and not open edition POD giclees. (and it's mostly painting, very little photography and just a smattering of sculpture).


They do work well (or have in the past) with my own website, but it can take a consistent 6+ month advertising presence to see results.


It might be a good fit for you Angelina, depending on what work you want to showcase. I am about 1/3 of the way through a short "test" campaign with them. They've made some changes since my last group of ads and I'm not sure if they'll turn out to be good changes or bleh changes. If you don't need to spend the money immediately, look into websites and check back in a month or two and I'll share my results. An online ad and newsletter ad package runs around $175

I'm also looking into Xanadu Gallery's art catalogue, but I'm more on the fence about that one. They showcase a lot of paintings too, some sculpture and other media, almost zero photography. In terms of media it seems like a good fit, but most of the artists range from traditional realism through Contemporary expressionist and impressionist representational ideas. It might not be a good fit for me, but if you are planning to showcase work that's more representational it might be worth a try. I have no experience with them, so no feedback on whether the catalog is a great thing. However, the production values and distribution strategy appear sound. If you're interested, message me and I'll send a link. A page runs around $190

There is also the Art Tour magazine artists catalogue, now accepting artist profiles. I did a little research on them and they appear legit, with various artist's blogging about good exposure and sales. I have no personal experience with them though. This one runs around $600

Blogging is a very underutilized form of advertising that doesn't cost a thing but can pay off in huge dividends if it's done correctly. It takes a lot of time and dedication to grow a loyal following, though, so it's not for everyone. Once my son is back in school and I have more time to devote to marketing my artwork, I'm making it one of my top priorities.

Yes April, agree -and the dividends are multiplied if you reach out to other bloggers. Try mixing in somewhat related useful content that is not directly about your art. For example: exhibit reviews, interviews with other local art scene people, how-to's, resources, etc.

I do very well boosting facebook posts.

Christa, I have been posting for years on Craigslist and always post as the "owner."

Maybe you should try again. You have nothing to lose.

This one I posted today. It leads to my AWS.

http://bit.ly/1oIor2s

Regina Valluzzi, you are 100% correct. I was not thinking of original art as in paint on canvas.

I think that is a hard sell on the internet no matter how you approach it.

FAA does not handle the selling of originals or Signed and Numbered prints very well. It is one of the features that I hope are address in the "new whatever it is" big changes that is coming.

Selling originals is always going to be a bit tricky unless the buyer can touch it, smell it, walk around it.

I'm not sure I can see the Internet ever taking over as the best place to sell originals. Some are going to have a lot more success then others but in general I'm not seeing it as ever replacing the good old fashion brick and mortar gallery or art shows.

Several of the artist I have direct dealership relations with that make a lot of money don't even show their originals on their own websites. In my opinion that is a mistake. But they say it was a lot of problems with questions that never ended up in sales.

Some of these are very successful and they artist still do all the shows they can do. Some travel all over the country to go to shows that they have had success in past years.

Advertising is a commitment. It starts with determining how much you can spend. Then, where/how to spend it. Then -- and this is the big one -- can you spend it (and more) month in and month out for the life of your business?

People who want to "try advertising and see how it goes" lose every dime they put into it. Every time. Consistency is the cornerstone of results.

The media is not the message. The message is the message. If you have a remarkable message, virtually any media you choose to deliver that message is going to perform. Do you have a remarkable message?

Small business advertisers spend too much energy, time and money trying to reach the perfect target audience. That part is EASY. Their ads fail because they spend too little energy, time and money on what to say after their target audience is standing right in front of them.

Finally, if you're in business and are still on the fence about getting a dedicated website, spending money on advertising is putting the cart before the horse.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Craigslist guys - are you posting in Artists under "community" or in "Arts and crafts" under the stuff for sale listings? The rules are different for each.

Most of the "artists" boards are fine with painters and other artists posting their work and including a website link (something like "see more here: http://www.mywebsite.org" or "for more information go to www.mywebsite.com"). They tend to flag people who are obviously selling (let them find the prices and availability on your website). You also want to be careful not to hide links behind html, and they might get touchy about an AW link if people recognize it as e-commerce POD and not a portfolio. The plusses of the artists section are that people are fairly relaxed about posts from out of town. The few that flag based on geography are usually low population/ low opportunity anyway.

On the "Arts and Crafts" board, you are more likely to get flagged based on geography, but you can sell pretty blatantly.

someone once mentioned a site that you can make inexpensive books of your artwork. About $14 each and he takes it to designers and such. It was a forum post, but can't find it right now.

Maybe an formun manager can find it. Can one of you help?

I think that would be a great investment. Kind of advertising, but more personal.

Dan - I agree that longer term ads are needed to convert views to sales, especially for art. But I also believe in try before you buy. If an ad venue isn't even delivering clicks back to my web site, or if they leave after hitting the home page, then that ad venue is not addressing the right target audience.

The interesting thing about Facebook likes, is that the views and hits are "captured" as followers who continue to receive messaging (until they dial you out). So if a decent Facebook campaign results in some likes and still no conversions months or years down the road, Facebook is probably not the right venue. If you do see some initial interest and even a bit of conversion from FB, it may be a very good avenue to build upon.

A lot of choosing the right ad venue has to do with a match to your style. If your style and images appeal to the broadest possible audience, then maybe FB. If you're targeting a more specific group, then maybe another more targeted venue is better.

For originals, pricepoints are also a factor.

I have been trying to learn SEO myself and by taking a free online course from Creative Live, but it's really a bit beyond my scope, as hard as I'm trying ... is there any way to find someone who's reputable and good at SEO? How would I go about finding someone? I just started my own new site and I'm eager to get it seen.
Thanks!

Well, I don't know how significant of the amount you be getting. If you have a lot to spend perhaps a full color ad in a home and garden or magazine for interior design magazine but I think you need to do it on a monthly bases to even get any responds..

Yes, I agree with Dan. You're putting the cart before the horse.

In business, if you start getting market success you start by figuring out exactly what changed or happened that caused that sale. Advertising $ are always limited, so they have to be efficient as well as effective. You can't afford (in $, time, or reputation) to put your stuff in front of people that don't want to see it. It's more efficient to target the 'willing to listen' than it is to harass the uninterested.

Now us old timers, totally agree with you that there is almost no ways for you to figure out what's working and not. Problem is that doesn't change the do or die requirement of this knowledge. And Dan is right that a dedicated website with analysis is an excellent option. I approach keywording and promoting as scientific experiments and record as much observation as I can, but you'd still need to have a domain. There's a lot of range in costs depending on your needs, but I just spent abt $700 in web building and eCommerce.

So I would strongly recommend against any direct advertising until you've invested in investigating where your people are found and wanting. Shear odds alone, dictate that this is going to be extremely, if not totally, useless expense if it's not scientifically targeted.

But Dan's also right that the pursuit of your markets is a commitment. You're going to have to figure out how, then build, maintain, and EVOLVE this website FOREVER. There is no such thing as a perfect setup today that's perfect for tomorrow. You don't just set up the store or display, you have to staff it. Observe what's being said and reacting. So the $ cost is nothing, compared to the time and commitment.

The third choice is to take the advertising money and go on a working vacation somewhere that inspires you. This is actually the one thing you do know about your past buyers, they like your work. So painting them something new, makes perfect business sense. And is really fun and smart! Use your travel adventures as blog and social media content.
--mary ellen anderson

SEO - Lots of relevant text around your images. Wordpress has SEO plugins that prompt you to optimize your blog posts. Write long (500+ words) blogs that are useful to people and on topic.

Also, backlinks. You need to triangulate or in other words get as many sites as possible to link to your posts/site. If you comment on another persons blog that is relevant, include a link back. Social network like crazy.

Search engines provide a service to their users. That service is providing relevant, useful links to the the search engine. With a special emphasis on popularity. Anything you can do to provide useful, relevant text with your images will help maximize your SEO.

Figure out who your ideal buyer is and then write to them.

I'm really new at this - Edward, you mention that search engines provide a service to their users. Can you tell me specifically what it is, or a link?
I did see that WordPress has SEO plugins - I have a tumblr blog but not sure if they have the same thing. (Don't think so.) Does anyone here use tumblr and do you have any good advice for me?
So is it cool when commenting on someone else's blog to post the link to your own website? Of course, if the subject of the blog is relevant ... not just throwing it in there.
Thanks!

I've tried a couple of advertising methods, with no discernible results in terms of sales. Both referenced my own domain name, which is currently a pass-through to my AWS.

- I did a couple of Google Adwords campaigns for three or four months at a time.

- I put a print ad in a Christmas ad supplement for a local/regional free newspaper that is delivered to homes.

OK, there was some result in sales--for Google and the newspaper.

I had high hopes for the Christmas ad supplement, and was set to run a print ad in a slick regional city mag, but with no results from the first, I bailed out on the regional mag.

Every time I visit this thread now Malwarebytes pops up saying it blocked a malicious website, mywebsite.org. That's just from visiting this thread. I haven't clicked on the actual mywebsite link. Perhaps that site is not safe and the link should be removed?

Miriam,
I know what you're going through. I've been building a new ecommerce site for over a month now, after a year of research. The everyday SEO knowledge that you're looking for is pretty much just part of the learning curve you have no choice but to go through. What gets each of us seen is going to be different than what's worked before. You're doing this SEO stuff because you know you have to figure out how to be different; what works for you and what doesn't. It's the knowledge of how do I know what works that you're really seeking, not how do I add meta tags to my website, but you can't get that knowledge if you don't know how to ask it.

There are just way too many 'experts' out there for you to even make a choice (know if the know what they are talking about) without some basic SEO knowledge. IT knowledge is kind of like algebra is to many; just completely nonsensical pieces of knowledge and mechanical rules till one day something happens to you that puts them all together and gives the knowledge purpose and usefulness. From then on you don't need to understand calculus to grasp the purpose and usefulness from math. But getting through math101 or seo101 are always annoying pre-requisites.
-- mary ellen anderson

I'm an artist as well as a photographer, but even if I was a photographer only, I would still recommend your own domain name and directing all advertising dollars to that.

Its future proofing and developing your brand. It's making your brand well known and that is not as easy to do on the internet with a subdomain name (yourname.artistwebsites.com)

Using a subdomain as your internet 'brand' is risky - anyone slightly internet savy who happens to be looking for art prints to buy will see a sub domain and quite possibly go see what the actual main domain offers (all they have to do is remove 'your name') - oh look a range of other artists websites for them to buy from.

Have a look at http://artistwebsites.com Click on 'Samples'. Oh look a list of the most visited artistwebsites. Not where I want any potential customer going.

Have a look at the spelling error of "artists" http://artistswebsites.com. Oh look, more competition, of a different sort. And again, not where I want potential customer going.

What happens in the future if FAA changes ownership/policy etc that you don't like (none of us are in control so don't tell me that can't happen).

Having your own domain name and a simple website (or at the very minimum, register your domain name and direct it to your artist website) then direct all your advertising, business cards and promotions to is far safer and future proof.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the artist websites, they serve a very good purpose.

Although I have just discovered that they don't appear to show up in google searches for the people that I have searched on including myself...this makes me very suspicious that Google has had a tanty over the duplicated content on FAA, artistwebsites, pixels etc.

Michelle - what is a "tanty"?

LOL sorry a 'tantrum'. Google does not like duplicate content and that is exactly what FAA has created with all the other websites pixels.com, fineartinternational.com fineartdownunder.com http://fineartengland.com and all the rest.

Not only does Google not like duplicate content, but it actively penalizes websites for it. I'm sure it has not affected FAA as a main domain as thousands of us artists here backlink to it which increases its 'value' according to Googles SEO algorithms, however from the research I am currently doing it appears it is an issue with the artistwebsites, and probably also our individual galleries and profile pages.

I'm really gonna have to remember 'tanty' lol! It will be my goal this week to find some reason to use it in a conversation....

Mary Ellen (Funny - my name is Miriam Ellen!), thanks so much for your thoughts ...

I took a class on optimizing SEO with Creative Live recently, and it was really good - but all geared toward people with a WordPress site - the teacher had several WordPress blogs, and showed how to put in the right words and phrases to do proper SEO, but I don't happen to have that. I furiously typed notes and even downloaded the chat from the class, but I still am not sure how to apply it to my own site, which isn't WordPress.

I'm not even sure how to add meta tags - am googling everything and then trying to apply it to my site. It seems like every time I learn something new, technically, I'm set back two steps. So I likely know a lot more than many folks, but not enough to accomplish what I want to do. In the interests of time, I'd love to hire someone for like a couple of hours just to maximize my site for me (I'd learn as they go). Maybe there are some people here at FAA who know how to do this - is there a way to put out a call for SEO help? (Though it would likely be applied to non-FAA sites ... or maybe we can still get it to work with our Artist Websites etc.)

Haha sorry, I didn't realise it wasn't a common expression.

Just reading up further, Sean has reassured everyone that the additional domains have been coded correctly to avoid the duplicate content issue. I am afraid that I am not re-assured by that at all. Google changes its algorithms ALL THE TIME.

The SEO experts around the world struggle to keep up with googles changes and to make the necessary changes to their websites to make them compliant. I'm afraid that a single comment from Sean "We know how to code everything correctly" does not reassure me in the slightest, so I would really appreciate further technical clarification on this from Sean or Technical Support.

Miriam, one of the huge benefits of word press is the SEO capabilities and that so many people use it that you can get a lot of help and instruction free of charge. Even if you pay for someone to set it up for you intitially, wordpress is very easy to use.

I have no idea if its a viable option for you, but possibly something to consider is importing your existing blog into wordpress on your own domain. I started with a blogger account way back in 2005, I imported all my posts and photos into worpress when I switched over, and just left a redirect message as the last post on the old blog.

As for SEO here or on your artistwebsite, all you can do is make the content you add descriptive and keyword rich. I'm not sure if the keywords are indexed by google, but you need to utilise them anyway if you want any hope of getting found by the FAA search.

Thanks for all the input so far. I'm reading and digesting the information.

I am leery of the long term commitments running my own website. Maybe I need to get over that.

I'm exhausted from my job right now but will be coming back with questions when I decide a course of action.

Miriam,
I use blogger. I've purchased my domain through godaddy so I use their web builder and shopping cart. And this is where it gets frustrating for the non-professional; I don't care about them all, just the one I've ended up with. But if you have a fairly strong background in IT, than you know there just isn't a basic shortcut to learning how to get yours to do what you want. Angelina, is right to be leery of the commitment because even if you learn what someone set-up it's a LONG-term relationship.

Underneath a good website is a well thought out plan.

I don't know what you want to accomplish with your website, and don't want to stray us off-topic but : meafineart.com
Don't know how much I can help but can help you with this particular setup I'm using. Go ahead and browse artists domains here and contact them directly for features you want to copy. Most people don't mind helping and if they do just move on.
--mary ellen anderson

Miriam and Angelina,
I should add that everything we've talked about so far doesn't include integrating with google analysis. So you can start seeing how people use your new website. This stage will very often require professional help.

Never hire someone to get your rankings in the search engines without investigating how they do that. There are all kinds of issues with google, paypal, etc. on how you can and can't use their sites. Even if someone setup your website you as the domain owner are responsible for complying with everyone's regulations.
-- mary ellen anderson

SEO capabilities of WordPress far out weights the capabilities of Google's weak Blogger product.

Michelle makes so many good points. I can never find my artists website when I try to Google it.

What service do search engines provide??

They provide quick and easy access to relevant information for the searcher/user.

A search engine that brings back unrelated or poor quality information is going to be considered bad by the user.

So its in the best interest of the search engine (Google, Bing, Yahoo etc) to figure out how to provide the best possible search results. To rank high in the search engines one needs to have:

original content (duplicate content is discounted)
content relevant to the keyword
endorsement by others that the content is good (other people link to it)
fresh content (site has to be updated regularly)
engaging - content that keeps people on the page for a long time

For anyone using Google Adwords, this may be of interest. They are making it more difficult and expensive to run really targeted search advertising campaigns.

http://certifiedknowledge.org/blog/adwords-is-forcing-variation-match-upon-you-this-is-why-its-a-terrible-idea/

I've been considering what's been said here...honestly I find it all overwhelming. Which turns into a type of paralysis of inaction.

I'm not ready for the expense or dedication required to run my own site well...and I don't want to do it half assed.

If it's not worth advertising my AW then where does that leave me at?

Have you tried FB? I believe Debra and Dave Vanderlaan said in another thread that they have had a lot of success in the FB promotions. I did try to boost a post a few weeks ago. Just spent $5 for 24 hr and maybe picked up about 5 new likes. I did get a sale though not sure if it was a direct result of the boost as analytics doesn't work on my AW.

Angelina, that leaves you with directing traffic to your AW in anyway that you can. People finding you through organic searches on FAA is going to get less and less (that is not a criticism of FAA, it is the way it is, I never believed that many sales would come from organic searches within FAA). So maybe social media - twitter, facebook, google+, tumblr, linkedin etc? I do use them, but I don't really like social media that much, some people have the time and the personality to market well on them, I don't think I do.

Plus its all instant gratification and people forget what they see within about three minutes.

Thats another reason why I like the permanency of a website/blog on my own domain. I might get fewer visitors or likes or whatever - but they are actually looking for me or my work and that converts to sales far more frequently than thousands of views on any social media that I am on.

A website or blog does not have to be expensive or require too much dedication after the initial set up. In an ideal world, keeping a webiste updated with regular posts to a blog and awesome SEO is the way to go, however a simple landing page hosted on a domain name that uses your brand (or your name) with content rich biography and a bit of text describing your work with links to your AW page or even each gallery on your AW site, and links to social media and anywhere else you sell you work can be effective as well.

It dosn't have to be that expensive, and if you are creative and concise, it dosn;t have to be half assed. You can get a blog or simple website template for free, domain names are really inexpensive, spend some time finding a reliable hosting company that dosn't cost a fortune - they are out there. SEO is important but it boils down to the same thing it always have - relevant keyword rich (without spamming) content. You can get a reasonable handle on that by spending a few hours reading about it, and learn a bit more here and there as you go.

With a website you can actually track the effectiveness of what you do - where you spend your advertising dollars and time. Find out what works and what dosn't so that you can maximise your future $ and time.

I just promoted my Youtube video. It already had almost 5,000 views and is actually being promoted by Youtube in "popular video collections" related to the keywords. The thing I like about my youtube video is it is a targeted audience. They may not be looking to buy art but the idea is to entice. Only a few will link through to my site but it is enough. Plus I can easily be found again on Youtube. I had been linking to my AW but I changed it now to a simple domain name I have had for years. That links redirects to the AW as of yesterday.

The old site on there has not been updated in years except to add some links to my AW. It had good traffic. Keeping up with uploading and promoting my site here is enough work without trying to develop another site. If I have time I can build a new site or I can keep the redirect to the AW or change it to any site I want. I should be able to monitor traffic better now, but not sure how it is Google Analytics is going to work with the redirect.
I feel the additional views will add mass to the overall snowballs that have been building and give my video and AW some momentum. That's just as important as immediate sales.

I just had an article on me in a neighborhood magazine in Madison (which went to a number of different, as I understand more affluent, neighborhoods). I almost immediately got a big sale. I recently sold it again, but whether as a result of the artlcle, or seeing me at an art fair, I don't know. I'm also surprised that they did not contact me directly.

I got a copy of that magazine, Steven. :) It was a nice article. Lots of good pictures, and he made sure to put in the link to his AW, which may have led to that sale (congrats, BTW).

I decided not to spend money on advertising. And I am not ready to build my own site.

I'm going to try some free advertising venues...consistently...and evaluate the outcome at the end of the year.

Angelina,

Your decision to not spend the money on advertising was wise. If you can, set the money aside and earmark it for marketing, and brand development. Too many people rush to buy ads and expect the sales to come rolling in. You're better off learning about marketing your brand, and let it slowly build. Developing a cohesive marketing plan takes time, and commitment. Consistency is the key, and at this time there is no "One Size Fits All" marketing strategy that will work.

Edward Fielding (and some others) has some real world advice, much of it mirrored by my own experiences in the business of commercial photography. I would concur with everything he has stated. I've spent many years in the business, and the one thing I know that doesn't work, is not having a solid marketing plan.

One of the things that I feel this forum could use, is a substantial marketing thread, with real world examples and members who are willing to discuss what has worked well, and what hasn't.

If only there were a way...?

-YoPedro

I agree with Yo. Save the money spent on advertising and use it for other avenues. Start printing and framing the ones you thing will interest people the most and find a place to exhibit them. I sent a photo to my local paper and they emailed me asking if I had some new photos for them. They give me full recognition in the press and printed my last image at half page. They also want to meet me sometime in the next couple of week and do an interview. I am taking that opportunity to print a 20 x 48 panoramic and framing it along with some of my already printed enlargements, for me this is great exposure to get my name out locally and hopefully branch out from there. Another avenue I have used is a local TV station post photos on the weather segment and mine was on there a couple of months ago. Can't beat the free exposure and advertising.

I agree with Yo on the marketing thread. This thread has over 5,000 views. People are hungry for productive info on marketing including me. I guess the ones that know how to do it are busy doing it.

Good suggestions from BonfirePhotography, as well as Pedro's comments. I do a lot of art shows, and get more sales there than FAA. Althought FAA is important. I just scored a magazine buy because they saw the image on FAA. That magazine issue will also be exposure for my work--and they paid me!

Angelina I work as an Ad Designer for a small newspaper in Iowa and have advertised a business card sized ad for a year or so and have had absolutely no job leads from doing so. We print two different papers one being the local town paper which prints every week in a town of only 1,500 people so not a big surprise that = no leads but our 4 county bulletin paper that prints twice a month makes it to about 10,000 homes in four counties so this is a little strange that I have had nothing surface from this! It may work for you depending on a multitude of factors including location, and what you have to offer but in my own experiences I cannot recommend newspaper!

I have to agree with a few others that have mentioned types of free advertising you can utilize and I can say I have had success with free Craigslist ads and have made sales with it and scores of bites which were dead ends. Some people do not like Craigslist and some do but there are some shady people around everywhere so basically one has to be careful at whatever they do and wherever they do it!

Most of my Murals and Paintings I have done in the last 20 or so years have come from free advertising..word of mouth type which I feel is ones best friend when advertising yourself and several of those word of mouth leads came from church members that we have got to know!

Most of my Art sales have been through eBay and I only use the free 100 listings a month you can get but often you can list thousands for free during certain times. I do not have an eBay store!

Anyhow I hope you do well and really every ones situation is different as to what works and what does not work!

Yes, the word of mouth adverting are the best. I was on a TV show early this year to talk about my art. Last month, out of the blue the producer email me and ask if be OK to pass my email address to her husband because he needed some paintings. As it turned out he owns a up scale restaurant in town and after our meeting he commissioned two paintings.( I don't think he even seen that show or my works). He accepted the paintings from my email photos and the paintings are hanging at his restaurant.We already talking about the paintings for his next restaurant. .