A Photoshop Question

PS will allow the importing of 16-bit raw files. Additionally, you have the ability to layer, blend, composite images in the same regards as Photomatix. PS does have its own built-in HDR-style tool, or you can simply do things manually.

I have read in the past people reporting certain plug-ins were having difficulties with CS6, but I never did confirm their findings. Perhaps Adobe's discussion threads would provide more solid advise?

Last first: Yes, Win 8 supports CS6 as well as previous versions. Adobe is pretty secure-just don't use Internet Explorer as that is not.

If you have a student or teacher in the family or as a friend, you can still get the educational version of CS6 from B&H and save quite a bit of money with no loss in features.

Many things in PS can not be done in 16 bit either-the file must be 8 bit (like multi-layering, some adjustments and most filters). You can open and edit in CS6 as in Lightroom and save to any format (I prefer TIFF as there is no data loss).

Sorry, Jeffrey, we crossed. I can not work my 16-bit files in CS6 at the level I could as 8-bit-many of the adjustments and filters are "grayed out". They can open, but not be manipulated as thoroughly. I had that issue with CS5 and CS4 as well.

Thanks Jeffrey, I'll have to find a thread from Adobe. I thought there would be a lot of artists here that use it that would chime in with their opinions. I'm just impatient I guess....maybe it's dinnertime.

Louise, my husbands a retired teacher but I don't think that counts. Anyway, I'd only be saving a little over $150 not worth going back to school. It's interesting that it won't open all 16 bit files. I wonder if the CC will. I refuse to buy a subscription. I checked B&H and all of their Photoshop CS6 software says they are discontinued. But this NextTech site has it available for $407 plus shipping. I think I'll get it, but I want to be sure it does exposure blending. Does anyone know if it will do it with 16 bit files?

Louise is correct when stating many PS filters are greyed out at 16-bit. Personally, I do not use them. I prefer Nik Software for 99 percent of my filter work. They are separate plug-ins, very cogent, but easy to use. Compatible with CS6? I do not know - I have CS5.

"It’s online around $400.00 (hard disk, I won’t download software).
The reason I don’t download a free trial is because the last time I downloaded something free my computer caught a virus"

Do it right through the Adobe site and it won't be a problem. What you said is like saying "I went outside once and it rained so I'm never going outside again". Seriously not an issue right from the manufacturer. Get used to it and comfortable with it because the direction things are headed it won't be long until CD's and any disks are obsolete.

I used GIMP for a while and the user experience was horrible compared to PS.

I'm on the monthly subscription, I think it's fantastic. It's cheaper than coffee so I don't see why business owners get in a bunch over the plan. I work HDR often on Photoshop CC. CS6 has this also. Why buy something they will not support in the future? 16 bit files, yes....

Why do you say "Why buy something they will not support in the future?" It's a software program. Once I buy it that's what I get. I know that. I don't want their support on a monthly outrageously priced support system. They are marketing their product for the sole purpose of controlling your choices. I want to get the software because it will always be what it is, not a future promise of what it can be. And your answer....does that mean the CS6 software will work on 16 bit files for exposure blending or the CC will?

Debra,

Here we go again, me trying to save you a few bucks!

http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1250462&targetid=1955676#1955676

Photoshop Elements 12 and the new plugin XXL2 makes this $60 program do everything you will need, for about $110 total!

I have CS6 and use about 10-20%, maybe that much!

Rich

Thanks Rich, I'll look into it in the morning. I may have some questions for you as this is not so much about the money but getting what I need. Thanks.

Jeffrey: Yes, it works with Nik (I have Color Efex that's about 5 years old, worked fine)
Debra: Yes, you can blend 16 bit layers. Just did it by opening the raw file in CS6, making a layer and used blending options. Perhaps I should amend my earlier answer-I had tried this before and it didn't work, but I hadn't opened the raw files in CS first. Whether that was the issue for making layers and blending in 16 bit, I'm not sure.

Question, though: why is 16 bit so important to you? The difference between it and 8 bit is indistinguishable to the average viewer and you can not save a jpeg as a 16bit. http://www.photoshopessentials.com/essentials/16-bit/

Hi, Debra

I would also recommend Photoshop Elements 12 ($59.99 at B&W) for layering and masking, etc.

As for exposure blending you might want to try the LR/Enfuse plugin for Lightroom that allows you to blend multiple exposures together directly from within Lightroom by using the open source Enfuse application. It's 'donationware' (I paid $5) and is preferable to Photomatix if you want a more realistic and natural result as opposed to the stylized and grungy look that Photomatix gives you.

- Adam

Photomatix includes that "grungy" look but it also does straight forward photographic blending to balance light and shadow without the halos and HDR high-grain people think it's only good for. Don't know if its trial doesn't show that feature or not as I purchased it without using a trial. I also like that I can do it with the raw files when I've shot bracketed images. Can 't do that kind of blending in PS.

"Why do you say "Why buy something they will not support in the future?" It's a software program. Once I buy it that's what I get. I know that. I don't want their support on a monthly outrageously priced support system. They are marketing their product for the sole purpose of controlling your choices."

Well that's certainly an interesting way of looking at it. $10 a month being outrageous all for the sole purpose of controlling our choices? lol. Updates, improvements and all of that is what I meant by support, although I do realize it's not for everyone. Yes, it is a software program. It's not about a future promise of what it can be, it's about getting updates and new and improved features all on the fly AND without viruses. So is $10 a month outrageous? Not if you stay current and get new or updated software every few years. If you are not using the features then there are several cheaper options out there like Elements, as has been mentioned.

I'm not focused enough to take in all your replies right now. I will do some research tomorrow and hopefully resolve some of the issues I have.

BTW Louise, I read that same article earlier but my conclusion led me to the exact opposite of what you're saying. You said "Question, though: why is 16 bit so important to you? The difference between it and 8 bit is indistinguishable to the average viewer and you can not save a jpeg as a 16bit." However, the author at the end of the article said "Try to work in 16-bit mode for as long as possible though before switching to 8-bit mode. Also, make sure you switch to 8-bit mode before printing the image, or even better, save your 16-bit version as a Photoshop .PSD file and then save a separate 8-bit version for printing." After reading that article it led me to believe that I should work in 16 bit file mode which makes more sense than working an 8 bit mode. Otherwise, I might as well stick with Gimp which is free and use another program for exposure blending. I agree with you about Photomatix. Thanks for your input. It means a lot to me that you take the time to help.

I use CS6 and am not too happy about going to CC in the future, but eventually it will have to happen. Do you have the camera that you want for the foreseeable future? CS6 won't recognize files from new cameras after support is no longer available. Anyone know when this will happen? In other words, something to consider if you plan on upgrading cameras in the next couple years, is that CS6 won't open your files, while CC will.

Because in sites like this where there is a size limit for uploading, 16 bit doesn't make a difference. Most sites take jpeg format only (some PSD) and you can't save a 16 bit image as a jpeg.For editing it is helpful to keep banding and color breakdown at bay, but it's not practical for POD once the work is complete. I have kept my 16 bit raw and TIFF originals for future editing but for the flexibility within editing, including using Topaz and Nik as well as Photoshop adjustments and filters, 8 bit is better.

Kevin, It may be $10 a month this month or six months from now. When they decide to change the price you have two choices. You can decline and go back to your latest version of PS on a disk. I can't because at this point, I don't have any version of PS on a disk. Six months from now (or probably much sooner) all versions on disks will be discontinued and I will be forced to join you at Starbucks for your expensive coffee and the exclusive clouds of Adobe at any price they choose. And I don't want the cheaper version of Elements, I want CS6 which at this point I am still trying to find out if it is even right for me. Thanks for your input anyway.

Lee, I just bought a Canon 5D Mark III camera and 2 new lenses. I have no intentions of upgrading after that huge investment and I know that PS CS6 will support my equipment now, but thanks for the heads up.

Adam, I will look into that plugin. thanks

Louise, I hope you're right. I'm very familiar with Gimp for photo manipulation. If I don't really need 16 bits then my only problem is finding an exposure blending program. I will do more research tomorrow. In the mean time have a happy 4th of July.

I still have my PS7 from 11 years ago because it has features no longer available with any version of CS. Also, I can load it into any computer any place and not worry about "unauthorized" usage. The CS6 educational version is the same way-I can load it into multiple machines. I have both on disk. Previous versions of CS that I had were "borrowed" with tricky ways to make them work because their keys were one-use only. It was the "death" of CS5 on my pc that made me go for CS6, even though the "cloud" was available. Yes, disk version is essentially more expensive; you can get 40 months or so with a subscription for the same amount if they don't up the price and you only get Photoshop. But it seems that plug-ins such as Topaz are not yet compatible with CC and, because I use Illustrator and Dreamweaver, CC for me would be very expensive. I can see why you want to stick with CS.

You are quite the veteran of PS Louise (11 years? Wow!). Your input has been great. Thanks again and I hope we can continue discussing this in the next few days.

"he difference between it and 8 bit is indistinguishable to the average viewer and you can not save a jpeg as a 16bit." However, the author at the end of the article said "Try to work in 16-bit mode for as long as possible though before switching to 8-bit mode"
"Because in sites like this where there is a size limit for uploading, 16 bit doesn't make a difference. Most sites take jpeg format only (some PSD) and you can't save a 16 bit image as a jpeg."

It's not about the upload it's about the editing workflow. There is a very noticeable difference when working on HDR images. This is during the edit process. You will in the end, be uploading the 8 bit JPEG to a site, however during the edit process I find that I get better results specifically when it comes to tweaking highlights and that sort of thing. Just more headroom to work with, while you are working the file over.

Photomatix is a great option and I don't agree that it looks grungy, if you don't want it to. The key is to stay away from the presets and input the values yourself to get the results you are after.

You have nothing to lose by doing a free trial, the virus thing is just being paranoid, and I say that in a friendly tone. Nothing to lose and you can try for yourself. There really aren't a lot of functional differences between Cs6 and CC, so take the trial and you won't have to pay a dime AND you can get a gauge as to whether or not CS6 might be right. Who know, you might like GIMP better since it is what you are used to.

That is a friendlier tone Kevin and I do understand that going through the host product is pretty safe. I have never had a problem downloading Gimp going through their own site. I have upgraded it twice in the past several years with no problems. I just want to make sure that I have the option to buy the software disk for PS CS6 from another site and not be obligated to do a download from Adobe at the end of my trial usage. If I'm paranoid it's because I just went through a complete recovery just from downloading a brush from Deviantart which is suppose to be pretty reliable. The idea of this thread was to get some feedback from users of CS6 and if it had the features I have mentioned and if it can offer me more than just getting third party software such as Photomatix. Also plugins scare me. A plugin that worked 2 years ago can be obsolete today for a new user. Gimp even offered an exposure blending plugin tool in script-fu but now it is not working. So anyway, thanks for your feedback and maybe I can work something out in the next few days with some help.

16bit in Gimp soon apparently.

http://www.gimpusers.com/news/00422-16-bit-goat-invasion-ready

Debra,

Adobe CC lets you download Photoshop on a 30 trial - sort of like test driving a car

and soon newer computers won't work with older versions, so if you spend $400 now, maybe in 2 years it will be obsolete if you get a new computer

the CC version works on 2 computers

yes

@HW Kateley that link is two years old. 16-bit editing has been promised in GIMP for many more years than that, so I'm not holding my breath although they have apparently made some steps in the last year. Lack of 16 bit support in GIMP is the main reason why I'm not using it.

(Actually I started with PS 5.0 in late 2001 for learning).

Windows makes each OS with options to make older software "compatible" by going into that software's folder and under properties, change the compatibility, which is why I can still use the PS 7.0, my Dreamweaver 2004 and others. New versions of standard software is good for 2 reasons: New users and for those who want the latest and greatest. But as I said earlier, I still use my PS 7.0 because some of the features ( like making contact sheets and web pages) are not in the newer versions.

"A plugin that worked 2 years ago can be obsolete today for a new user."
As for plug-ins being "obsolete", most, like Topaz, allow free upgrades, so that's not really true. Plus, new users would be getting new versions. I'm still using plug-ins I found years ago simply by reloading newer versions (like "harry's filters") and my Nik Color Efex is over 5 years old and works just fine with CS6.
"offer me more than just getting third party software such as Photomatix"
Not sure what you mean by "third party" as Photomatix is a stand alone product not connected with Photoshop.

I'm very happy with my Photoshop Elements 11. I purchased the hard disk. There's tons of tutorials on YouTube.

It combines exposures really easy. I'm able to do composites and layers. Plus it supports RAW, depending on your camera. I haven't experimented with RAW yet. So this is one area you'd want to investigate before purchasing.

I don't know what PS CS6 software has that Elements 11 doesn't have. But I have all that I'll ever need with Elements 11. There's definitely a learning curve to it. But PS CS6 would be even more complicated to learn. I don't have the time or inclination to struggle with software that is too complicated.

I also bought Photomatix. But I don't even use it anymore. Mike does wonderful HDR work. And he doesn't use Photomatix. I believe he just blends exposures and layers and adds his "special techniques."

So, all in all, I'm using Photoshop Elements 11 and Topaz Labs. Both of these programs are new to me, but I"m really comfortable learning how to use them.

Personally, I'd go with what Rich suggests:

"Photoshop Elements 12 and the new plugin XXL2 makes this $60 program do everything you will need, for about $110 total!

I have CS6 and use about 10-20%, maybe that much! Rich"

Good Luck :)

Louise, the plugin I was referring to was created for Gimp specifically for exposure blending. It didn’t last long for some reason and now doesn’t work at all. I didn’t mean all plugins have problems….must be the way I said it. Anyway, I still feel the advantage of working in 16 bit seems to be important to some degree to a lot of photographers even though the finished product will end up a TIFF. The author of the article we read about showed a picture of the difference in how ‘banding or stairstepping’ was produced in 8 bit and virtually eliminated in 16 bit. If we were comparing 4 bit to 8 bit would it make a difference? I guess I’m nitpicking but it seems to be one of the big reasons photographers prefer PS.

Gimp can do exposure blending…it’s just a little different process. I figured it out today while playing around with it. It’s basically the same as PS according to the tutorials I’ve watched. All you’re really doing is stacking your different exposures and working on each one individually removing areas with curves and masks etc…If you have Lightroom or your own camera’s digital processing tools you can adjust the tones, ghosting and CA etc… there and then Import them into PS or Gimp. So the real issue for me is it worth getting PS for the 16bits? Actually, I’m not really sure if there’s a magic button somewhere that makes it all worthwhile.

I hope everyone is having a great 4th of July. It’s raining here in Yuma. I love it.

I use Elements. I used to do everything with Nikon's "Capture NX2" which was terrific - but Nikon ended development years ago and is now ending support (to the howls of angry users). Compared to NX2, Elements lacks a couple of key features but I have no intention of ponying up for Photoshop or CC.

That XXL2 plugin Rich mentioned looks very interesting. It would give me curve adjustment layers, which is a big deal.

I tried GIMP and Corel but being trained on PS for so many years, I couldn't get into either one. That might be the same thing in reverse for you. Everyone told me GIMP was exactly like PS (it isn't) and I would have no problems learning it ( I did).

As I mentioned earlier, while I understand the "improvement" of 16 bit to 8 bit, for me, at least in editing and how I do my work, it didn't make a difference. Banding is a breaking down of color and clarity. "So why, then, would it be better to work with a 16-bit image? One word – flexibility. When you’re editing an image in Photoshop, sooner or later, if you continue making edits, you’re going to run into problems. The most common problem is what’s known as "banding", where you’ve lost so much detail in the image that Photoshop can no longer display smooth transitions from one color to the next. Instead, you get an ugly stair-stepping effect between colors and tonal values."

As stated, the breakdown happens when you "continue to make edits". This happens with Jpegs because they are data loss files, not raw or TIFF (which I edit as, never as Jpeg). Since you can't save as a 16bit Jpeg, saving as a 16 Bit TIFF further "preserves" the integrity of the original image, but limits your possibilities in editing. It really comes down to a personal choice of style and if that's what you need, then that's what you do.

Louise, you are much more of an expert than me. I am just learning. I'm trying to learn from you and others. That's the purpose of this thread. I would like to hear from others about the way they feel about editing in 16 bit as compared to 8 bit. BTW, I always edit in Raw. It's when I get to Gimp that I have to convert to a different format...unlike PS. Hence the whole reason for this discussion (or at least part of it). At this point now, I am just considering not doing anything at all.

Yes, PS will allow editing for raw files, but as mentioned earlier, for 16 bit your choices become limited if you wish to further enhance. Filter Gallery, Distort and Pixellate are nonfunctional in 16 bit (and even more are nonfunctional in 32 bit). Almost all image adjustments are functional. The image remains the raw file until you save it at which point you can not save it as a raw file, it defaults to PSD (which I never use but some do). Go with TIFF.
If you are looking to do basic editing with no enhancing and GIMP allows TIFF in 16 bit, then there's no reason to shell out $400. For basic adjustments such as sharpening, contrast or white balance, the software for your camera will do it as well.

I would also look into Photomatix again and really test out their blending. People think they are just "HDR" but their "Photographic" mode, coupled with the adjustments really does a nice job of balancing shadow and light with multiple images, has noise softening and "ghost" elimination. You can use if right from the camera with your raw files. And it's a lot cheaper than PS.

Louise, 16-bit editing is definitely not a must-have feature. There have been some tests, and it is practically impossible to tell 8-bit and 16-bit versions of the same image apart.

The claimed benefit from 16-bit editing comes from the ability to withstand more abuse. You can make bigger tonal changes, curves, etc. without introducing banding or other anomalies, so 16-bit editing might be useful if you do a lot of edits to your images.

Again, it is usually a theoretical advantage, as I haven't seen real-world examples of it actually making a difference outside of convoluted, manufactured examples designed to show the benefit of 16-bit editing. But it doesn't hurt, especially since most cameras these days are 12 or 14-bit capture devices (whether they actually are capable of so many bits is a another matter and discussion).

The reason why _I_ ask for 16-bit editing is that my Fine Art Pinups project is shot on large format film, scanned at 16 bits. I've had some slides scanned at 8 bits years ago, and that just didn't work out, at all.

Bottom line for most people: if your current software supports 16-bit editing, I don't see much reason to upgrade, as 16-bit support doesn't make things worse since most features work in 16-bit mode, and HDD space is cheap. If it doesn't support the higher bit depth images, I wouldn't upgrade just to get 16-bit editing as the benefit from it is largely academic.

I’ve spent the last few hours going over some tutorials about the plugin XXL2 with Photoshop Elements 12 which is the option Rich suggested near the beginning of this thread. The only drawbacks I can see is that it will only allow you to work with one 16 bit image at a time (at least that‘s what I‘ve surmised, if I‘m wrong please say so). If that’s true then I can’t do exposure blending in 16 bit whereas if I get PS CS6 I will have that option (plus a whole lot more being as it's a full version of PS). The plugin does have a lot of features for anyone that already has PS Elements and would be worth getting. I wouldn't consider PS Elements without it as I can do more with Gimp.

I also did a lot of reading about 8 bit and 16 bit and I’m still torn as to whether I want to spend the extra money for it by getting PS CS6. If I could keep using the software more than twice it might be worth it. If I have to reinstall it in case of another virus (which just recently happened) I’ll only have one more chance to use it. Chances are I will eventually need to upgrade to Windows 8 which PS CS6 is suppose to run on but then that will be it. I’m thinking that it’s just not worth spending $420 and am considering Rich’s option.

It seems we are all predestined for the Cloud eventually. Hopefully some software manufacturer somewhere will find a competitive solution to keep Adobe from holding us captive. Unfortunately, when they see people jumping on the bandwagon they’ll probably all start forcing patrons to subscribe or should I say 'rent'.

I've always welcomed new windows versions, even when others complained. It's always an easy adjustment with a small learning curve. I picked the right time to switch to MAC. Windows 8 is absolutely horrible IMHO. You might want to try it on some one else's computer before you buy a windows 8 machine.

You might try Photo Impact from Ulead - Corel, I have used it sense version 4 and now use version 13. I have downloaded plugins for PS and used them. I also can make my own plugins, textures, task and image drop ins Libraries and stamps. It uses layers and I can and have shot in RAW and worked with the images. I use Nikon and have sense 1967 when I took the job of Ships Photographer in the US Navy. In 2005 got tired of converting film images to Digital and bought my first Digital camera. I was all ready using Photo Impact. It was recommended to me by Craig Willis who ran the Professional Photo Talk (PPT) web sight. I find it to be simple to use and I can do just about anything a photo Shop person can do. Cost under $40.00 US.

Michael Anderson

I agree 100% with Kevin Annala about windows 8/8.1, Stay with windows 7 or move to Apple, Linux, or what ever is out there.

MS is moving towards total Subscription service, Right now you can no longer buy or install MS Office with out a flag coming up saying that you must pay 69.95 a year for a one year subscription. I see this trend as spreading a crossed the internet in the next few years. We wont owe our soles to the company store, it will be to the phone and the internet.

Michael Anderson

Windows 8 is not much different than 7. Supposedly, 8.1 has been made to be easier to navigate thru but if I can use Windows 8, ANYONE can. Getting used to it took a a couple of tries, no different than going from Win 98 to XP.
There's no reason to change OS's until your computer bites the big one and since Win7 is still available, that won't be for a while-you can still get that one installed if needed.

In buying CS6 as opposed to the Adobe subscription, you have to determine how often would you be using it and for what? There is a heck of a lot PS can do that most people pay for and have no clue about. Not sure what you mean by having "one more chance to use it" in case of a reinstall from a virus. First, get decent protection so that doesn't happen again. Second, should that happen more than once or twice, there is always support. That's why I like educational versions, they are limitless in their usage on different computers-their key is not a one-time only. They are absolutely no different in scope than non-educational versions and, because of that unlimited key use, are better.

I totally get that people have different feelings about computers and software interface. but I liked Windows 8 right from the start. To me, the new Start Screen with the tiles was a welcome change and I think it looks cool. Even if you don't like that part - Win 8 boots faster, responds quicker and is more secure than any previous version.

Michael,et al.,

I've been using Apache Open Office for a few years now and it's free and basically a mirror of MS Office:

https://www.openoffice.org/why/index.html

Do some research and see, no reason to spend anymore money on Microsoft products.

Rich

Jim said, "I liked Windows 8 right from the start. To me, the new Start Screen with the tiles was a welcome change and I think it looks cool. Even if you don't like that part - Win 8 boots faster, responds quicker and is more secure than any previous version."

I totally agree. I've had no problems whatsoever with my Windows 8. I found it easy to get the hang of it.

Been using windows since version 3.. happily running with 8/8.1 since it was released with no issues whatsoever. Don't let the naysayers get into your brain. ;O)

Michael, I wasn’t aware Microsoft was moving towards total Subscription service. Thanks for the heads up.

Louise, what is your idea of decent protection? When I had the last virus I was using Kaspersky. Fortunately my contract was up with them so when I did a recovery I switched over to Norton. Now I know how much you hate Norton as I read somewhere in a thread that you said they are the worse. No matter what I use they will not be 100 percent safe particularly if you download something free. That is what to avoid if you don’t want to get a virus. I can’t buy educational versions as I am not in school, have no grandchildren in school, have no friends in school. If you know a way around that I would love to hear it. My understanding is that if you buy the hard disk, it can only be used on one computer at a time. So if you want to use a laptop and have it installed in your PC at the same time you can’t. When I bought Lightroom recently, my husband read somewhere in the package that it can only be installed twice. Now to back that up, Monday I am going to call the outfit that sells CS6 it and see what they say. I tried to call yesterday and had to leave a message. I hope I’m wrong and that I can use it more than twice. The Gimp screen is very similar to PS in fact I’m sure Gimp copied it from PS so it would be more familiar with users. I use a lot of features on gimp that I would miss on Elements even with the plugin. And Gimp doesn’t have some features that PS CS6 has that I want. For instance, the Vanishing Point tool is something I would find very useful. I like your new avatar Louise…. it’s nice to see a face sometimes.

As far as Windows 8.…my computer is running great (knock on wood) which is Windows 7 with a good old fashioned keyboard and mouse. I hate using a touch screen on my smartphone (although it helps if you turn it sideways). Same with my tablet, and try walking fast and using a touch screen on a Nordic Track. I am always missing the buttons and my fingernails sometimes hit the button above so I’m using the delete key most of the time to correct mistakes. Who wants to raise their arms to touch a screen anyway? When I sit at the computer I want to relax not get a workout. A lot of people don’t like it and I’m pretty sure I won’t. The only thing that sounds good is what Jim said, “Win 8 boots faster, responds quicker and is more secure than any previous version.” I guess I’m just too old fashioned, even “cool” is not in my vocabulary.

Rich, Apache Open Office. Free. If it comes to that will definitely look into it. (as long as it has spellchecker).

While I’m here, I went to Adobe CC site to see the different options for Photoshop. I noticed if you are a previous user of CS3 or later it is $29.95 a month for a complete package. It’s $9.99 a month for the photography package with Lightroom. What does the first package have that the second one doesn’t?

Windows 8 desktop does not need a touch screen.

Norton is never on the top 10 of anything except what to get rid of. LOL

Most people confuse "virus" with trojans and malware and Norton is horrible at preventing either one. You need both malware/trojan protection as well as virus protection. Avast and AVG are good and free virus protection software. Spybot is for malware and trojans, also free as is Malwarebytes. Do some research on what best would suit your needs.

As Bob said, Win8 does not require a touchscreen.

If your spouse is a retired educator, he can use his ID or pension check ID to purchase.

Don't call where you bought the software from, contact Adobe for the most accurate information. A seller won't be privy to it and will try to bullshit you.

Debra,

I've got a CD of both CS6 and LR, on both the desktop and my laptop,not a problem, but I think I needed to talk to Adobe to add the laptop.

Apache is EXACTLY like Word/Office!

I am running Win7 and 64 bit and no issues.

You're right Louise, I should call Adobe first. And I hope you're right about using my Husband's ID. I did try to Google that but couldn't find anything about retired educators qualifying. When I call Adobe I'll ask them. thanks

Rich have you ever installed either one more than twice? Oh well, I 'll have my answer tomorrow. I told my husband about Apache so he's happy now. Thanks.

If Windows 8 doesn't need a touchscreen then why is everyone in such a tizzy? I'm just going by what I'm seeing online and hearing in forums.

Debra - I don't know. It is TOTALLY optional if you want to work in the traditional desktop mode or the new "modern" UI [ User Interface ].

Debra,

Yes, over a few years, I've installed new udated programs on both computers, but talked to Adobe about it for the laptop. When i purchased the upgrades, I did it over the phone and got CD's and also the ability to use them on two computers,

Rich

After looking around the web, it would appear that the educational version of CS6 for Windows is no longer available for purchase-guess Adobe is doing its best to force its subscription on everyone.

Nextag has a ton of them. Do you trust the site? Adobe does their best to warn about buying anywhere else but through them.

http://www.nextag.com/Student-Edition-CS6/products-html

I finally ordered the PS CS6 Extended Students and Teachers version. I ordered through Adobe themselves because after talking to them they said that there could be all kinds of problems just ordering from a reseller. I don’t know if I believe that or not but I didn’t want to take any chances. You might save a little money going through a reseller but may have trouble verifying eligibility since Adobes links mention nothing about retired teachers anywhere on their website.

If anyone here is a retired teacher and is thinking about ordering a DVD or even CC of Adobe products at a discount you might want to read what I went through below, if not don’t bother cause it’s pretty boring.

One of the problems was finding out what I needed to prove my husband’s eligibility. Nowhere on the Adobe links about eligibility does it mention retired teachers. So I had to call someone and talk to them directly (which in itself is an ordeal…they don’t make it easy.) At first she (support person) wasn’t sure but then went ahead and processed my order and said I was approved without even sending verification. I received a few e-mails that took me back to those links about verification and said I needed to attach an electronic copy of my proof of eligibility and referred me back to the links again. Finally I got an e-mail saying Thank you for ordering from the Adobe Education Store. Note: In order for Adobe to fulfill your order, academic verification is required. Your credit card will not be charged until your academic eligibility is approved. But they did charge my credit card so I thought I was approved. I logged into my account clicked on my order number and it said it needed 24 hours to process. I waited 24 hours and nothing changed. I chatted with a support guy and of course he sent me to the links and said I needed to show proof of verification. I replied and asked for a phone number where I could either get my account activated or cancel it. When I called the number and got a call back, someone straightened everything out and said I would be able to activate my account and download the program before 8 hours. I then got a serial number and an active button that said DOWNLOAD but it still said my account will not be processed for 24 hours. I called again and was sent an e-mail telling me I could download from there. I could not. It just sent me back to more information pages. I ended up just cancelling my order because I don’t have the patience to wait day after day and get the runaround. I personally feel they are doing this on purpose because they want everyone to subscribe to Creative Cloud.

The Adobe Support number is 800-833-6687. You will be required to make different selections and end up going round in circles but eventually you will get a recording that asks for your phone number and a live person will call you back shortly. I suggest you use this number to order your product instead of just downloading it. Although, it did not work for me.

Note: Whatever you do, don’t go to Google search to look for Abobe Support, you will not find a number. What you will get are scammers with different URLs and people that pretend to be Adobe technicians that ask you to let them take control of your computer and try to sell you a virus protection. I know most of you know this, but sometimes when we’re upset and in a panic we forget simple things like that.

I am very disappointed with the service that I received because it took a lot of my time and created a lot of frustration. And I am back where I started. I’m not saying everyone will have this experience, but if you do at least you were warned and should be prepared to be disappointed.

Yikes, what a drag. Just wanted to chime in to say I'm running Windows 8, CC, and have all the Topaz plug-ins...no problems to report. It's all good.

My first purchase of Lightroom was through the arts center where I teach classes. It was kind of a pain going back and forth to get the passwords and such.

I just recently bite the bullet and joined the $10 a month Lightroom/Photoshop CC deal with Windows 8. Install was very smooth.

A couple of notes I think folks need to be aware of.

The licensing agreement of the educational versions of CS products states that they cannot be used to produce commercial work. I don't know how they define "commercial" so you may want to dig into it further for clarification.

While its true that Microsoft is pushing subscription products, the full versions of the Office suite are available both on disk and for download. Microsoft has no plans to discontinue them. Moreover if you are getting pestered to pony up for money you are using a demo version of MS Office.

What Rich said about free software is right. Why pay for something that is free?

MS Office 365 is available online for free. It's pretty nice and has everything 98% of users need.

Libre Office is an offshoot of Open Office. It's actually a little better than Open Office. While I would not call either a clone of MS Office, both have 98% of most of need for our productivity needs.

The Windows 8/8.1 start screen is just a "in-your-face" version of the traditional start menu. You can easily drag your tiles around to suit your needs. Windows 8.1 makes it easier to use and once you realize that its not really any different than 7 you'll be bouncing around without issues.

Rumor has it in the next version of Windows they are bringing back the start menu.

How many of you remember how hard it was for people to use the Start Menu when Windows 95 came out? It was such a paradigm shift from 3.1 Program Groups that MS had to release an update that had a big arrow saying "Start Here" pointing to the start menu. We've had the start menu for so long now that we don't know how to function without it.

Chuck, no one ask me what I was using the PS CS6 for. They verified my husband's eligibility and created a account for me on my husband's behalf, but would not let me download it after they took my money.

For those of you that have the CC or downloadable products take a look at the Adobe forums. They're loaded with frustrated people that are awaiting answers. I'm just letting you know my experiences because this thread is about purchasing Photoshop.

Adobe wanted to get all their customers moved to CC and tied into cloud-based subscriptions. But they weren't nearly prepared to deal with the resulting problems, They lack server capacity, support, and security, and the results so far have been predictable.

I won't have anything to do with it and will just continue using Elements (with 3rd party extensions).

Oh and Windows 8 works just fine with a mouse and no touchscreen.

Yes Jim, I was very glad to hear that a few days ago and it helps that you have confirmed it also. Thank you

Debra, they aren't going to ask. They expect you to read and abide by the license agreement. Hope you get this worked out. Shame you can't get it on Amazon anymore. That would have saved a lot of hassle. I did my last copy of Lightroom 5 through an Adobe download. Went like clock work.

While the licensing agreements say "for educational use only. Not for commercial use" (or words to that effect), no one yet has come banging on my door asking me to fork over all my software.

Debra, they might be checking the credentials, but I don't know why you can't download what you paid for. Maybe that's not on Adobe's end?

Adobe does allow users educational or otherwise to use their software for commercial use. http://prodesigntools.com/difference-between-adobe-cs5-student-editions-vs-regular.html

Louise, I was approved for eligibility and they confirmed that in an e-mail. If I had stuck it out and kept making phone calls I may have been able to eventually been directed to the right place where starting the download was possible. I spent all day yesterday and part of the day before in chat rooms, and on the phone with support people that kept sending me e-mails to links that went nowhere. I was charged on my credit card the first day, they didn't waste any time getting my money. If it's not on Adobe's end who do you think is to blame? Here is one of the e-mails they sent me:

Dear Mr. Chmelina,
We are pleased to inform you that your proof of academic eligibility has been accepted. Your order has been processed.
Information about your order is as follows:
Adobe ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Order number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX(I put the X's in)
Order date: July XXXXX
Products ordered:
Qty Product
1 Adobe Photoshop CS6 Extended Student and Teacher Edition (Windows,Universal English)
Total purchase amount: US$378.

I even received a serial number.Then they provided me with a link that went to my account and I was back where I started. Nowhere.

Now even after I cancelled the order on the phone and received a cancelation confirmation number, they are still sending me e-mails that are requiring me to jump through hoops and go to links that don't exist to cancel my order. They are also making it hard for me to cancel my order for the hard disk that I ordered as a back up through the mail which was an additional $20 plus tax and shipping. It's not suppose to be here for 7 to 10 days but they're asking me to return it. And on top of everything else, they won't take the charge off my credit card for another 8 to ten days for the total amount.

Edit@ Louise, in case you missed it in a former post, I mentioned it there that I ordered PS CS6 Extended directly from Adobe. Maybe that is why you think it may be a reseller and they're the ones creating the problems. If so, I'm sorry I wasn't more specific in this post. I bought the program from Adobe so I wouldn't have problems. Ha, what a joke.

I used to have issues with Win7 not allowing downloads, so I thought that might have something to do with it, but looks like they're just being difficult.

I feel your pain. I have been dealing for two weeks with Stellar Photo Recovery because their software wiped out over 300 images from my SD card and every time I answer one person, another emails me back with the same stupid questions.

I think I'm going to stick with Gimp. I already have Lightroom which is included in PS CS6. I didn't have any problems ordering that software recently. I just put the disk in, took the serial number off the box and voila it works.

Sorry to hear that Louise. I didn't even know they had a software for that.

I'm also having trouble with the camera outfit that I bought my Canon 5DMarkIII and 70-200 lens from. I waited till after I ordered it before checking the stores reviews. Stupid me. A lot of people are having the same problem as me getting a tracking number and their orders on time...some as long as 2 months. They say it's been shipped but I can't get a tracking number. Baloney.. If I could cancel my order I would but they charge a restocking fee of 15% which would amount to over $700. Why would they need to restock it if they haven't shipped it yet? I even have an e-mail that says; "This package will be delivered to you on or before 7/9/2014 and tracking information will be e-mailed three days prior to the date." When we called them yesterday, they said they have a new policy that doesn't give tracking information anymore. And now they are promising that it will be here by Friday. Yeah right.

I use Photo Shop and love it, it's done every thing I ask of it, and you can always start simple and upgrade as needed.

Debra, the commercial use is a nice change in their licensing. there was a time when you couldn't.

I'm also having trouble with the camera outfit that I bought my Canon 5DMarkIII and 70-200 lens from.

Debra, I'd suggest calling your credit card company and disputing the charge on your credit card. They are required to send you the tracking information once they have charged your card. For this very reason it is advisable to purchase from well known retailers like B&H or Adorama or even Amazon. My experience with all 3 has been very good and if you find an item at a lower price, 95% of the time they price match. Yes, it does involve the hassle of calling them and negotiating with them, but for the peace of mind it is well worth the effort.

I hope you get your new gear in good shape soon!

One other thing, before you sign for the package make sure you inspect the packing and ensure that the packing tape hasn't been meddled with. Those FedEx, UPS guys are always in a rush and hurry you into signing for the package. I'd sign ONLY if the packing looks intact. If it doesn't, refuse the package.

Cheers!

Who did you get the camera from?
Before doing business with any online entity you can check their ratings from customers at http://www.resellerratings.com/

Thank you so much for your concern about my purchase Sai and Louise. You are absolutely right about purchasing from a reputable outfit. I think Visa is going to support our discretion about the company we purchased from just based on their bad reputation. When I found out that they would not honor our request for a tracking record I cancelled the order several days ago. I sent them an e-mail saying that I want to cancel the order because I did not receive a tracking order as promised, but they said since they already sent the order it was too late. As you said " They are required to send you the tracking information once they have charged your card." They, however would not accept that and said it was too late as they had already shipped it.

I hope it will be resolved. They promised it would be delivered this coming Friday which is tomorrow. I doubt it, and even so I don't want to accept the delivery which I have to sign for. I don't think that I will receive the product that I ordered. I think it will be a Gray version of the more expensive product. They will pocket the savings while I will end up with an inferior product at an expensive price. By going through them, I did not save more than a couple of hundred dollars. That certainly is not worth the trouble I am going through now. When this is over, I will tell the whole story and how they tricked me into buying their product. In the mean time, I don't want to reveal who they are as it may come down to downright fraud and also,I don't want to discredit them if they follow through with their reimbursement. When it's all over, I will do my part and review them and disclose all that they have put me through.

Thanks for all your concerns and support.