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Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/08/2013 - 10:42 AM

Question: when posting a tweet, do it in such a way the pic is in the tweet or not?

what do you think?

- when including a pic in the tweet, it gives the opportunity to easily like it if they do, but also reject it if they do not
- when not including a pic, but only a link, it forces them to click to view your work. however, some may never take the extra step of clicking which means they do not see your work at all, liked of not

which methods works best?


Oldest Reply

Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 10:44 AM

i don't include pictures at all partly because if you upload even a small image to twitter, they own the image according to their terms. but mostly i want people looking at my store. once here they can look at other things. but if they see it there, they saw it, there is no reason to click in further. i would rather use the extra space for hashtags to get new eyes to see the link, than showing them the goods right in that place.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 10:55 AM

Here is a question, are you tweeting to pass information along to people or share information with people? Or, are you trying to sell a photo/art work?

What do you think helps sell an image the best? An actual pic of the image or a link of an image? It tend to think that you have a greater chance of selling an image if the person can actually see the image. Is a person more likely to click on a stunning image of the Empire State Building or a URL that says "stunning image of Empire State Building". This way the person who clicks on the image is actually interested in the image for some reason. They are not just clicking a blind link. They click the blind link and see the image and if they hate it they will never click on one of your links again. If they see the image and click on it you know there is some level of interest. That is targeted marketing versus trying to fool someone. You will have much better results with targeted marketing than and some hocus pocus scheme. Plus, 95% of links posted on twitter go unclicked. As for Twitter owning the image. Who cares. A tiny version with the fine art America watermark on it. They reallocate ant do much with it.


Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/08/2013 - 11:32 AM


That is exactly why I asked the question!

It's a classic rock-and-a-hard-place!

Each methodology has its strong points, each its pitfalls!

So what's the correct answer? LOL.


Posted by: Bob Galka on 11/08/2013 - 11:35 AM

Tweet twice... ;O)


Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/08/2013 - 11:35 AM


In my case, twitter owning the pic is not an issue. I never post a clean image. each is prepared for facebook, twitter, etc with no more than 570 on the longest side, plus it is always watermarked. I do not post examples of "clean" images.

the link goes back to the AW or FAA image page, but that is not an issue in the decision because each methodology shares that ultimate danger... it's a wash.


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 11:35 AM

Tweets with pics get more clicks. Say that ten times fast but it is the truth.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 11:41 AM

there are no correct answers. i get many favorites and shares after i tweet, including comments. i can't say if one way will sell better because we don't have stats here to support it either way. it seems like a lot more trouble to give the image, than to just make a nice set of keywords for people to look at. i find my tweets scattered across the web. i think it's still a better idea to get them to click on the link and look at the rest.

i've tweeted things out here after a sale, just to get another sale right after - without pictures.

i send things over to facebook as well which does have a picture. i get comments and likes. but i can't say i get more hits.

i do know that the first 30 hits from twitter is junk hits, they are all bots. anything counted after is usually ok.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/08/2013 - 11:50 AM

Here is something interesting.

From this:

Is this:

"A recent photo in a tweet vs. no photo in a tweet experiment revealed that a linked photo results in 120 percent increase in engagement and 350 percent increase in clicks for a tweet."


Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/08/2013 - 11:56 AM


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 12:01 PM

if there was an easy way to do it, maybe i would do it. but as far as i know it seems like extra work. and of all those clicks - how many were sales? just looking at it, isn't enough, and of those that looked, how many took the image to tumblr or something?

for now my method is working, at the very least i get more people that are into my thing looking at my tweets, which is directed at them.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 12:09 PM

the thing i wonder is - do those stats count for products being sold - like soda or jewelry? or photos to be sold? because many think pictures are something you just take. or something you found and wanted to share.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 12:47 PM

Your 100% right Dan with those articles.

Anybody looking for absolutes in marketing vs. selling is on a fools errand. A department store puts out a weekend flyer in a local paper. They know from statistics that when I do ad in this paper over a weekend I see a 20% increase in sales. They don't try to figure out how many of those in that 20% increase, saw were influenced by actually reading ad versus how many were not. Those like factors such as word of mouth. What they know is that the add caused more interest in our products overt that weekend which translated into more sales. The key of marketing is drawing interest. They key to selling is having something someone else wants. Interest in an image translates into a sale if you happen to have an image that someone else wants. So if posting a tweet with an image generates more interest then it is a good thing and even a better method than a tweet without no image. Obsoletes only work in science and selling prints is not science. It's about generating interest and offering something unique and interesting.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 1:09 PM

a study is only as good as what they used to study, and they didn't share that info (at least not the one i clicked on). were they tweeting about what miley sirus did on stage? was it about a hurricane? was it about some first world problem? was it to advertise a product. most of that is interesting in statistics, but not helpful overall.

many stores will run the ad, but if they didn't, do they have the stat for that? because most people are home on the weekend and that alone will be the 20% right there. yet many would be afraid not to have something on sale because they don't want to gamble with it.

in either case i would experiment with it, if it was a snap to do it. i just don't think it is - is there such a generator?

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 2:29 PM

ideally though i think the people that should answer are the ones that don't get sales on a general basis, and switched to posting images in twitter, are they doing better? are they getting more hits or sales?

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 2:37 PM

Posting on twitter with or without images has nothing to do with sales. Once you get past that fact you might understand marketing a little bit. It is about generating interest and a buzz.

The reason I say it has nothing to do with sales is because selling is a different beast entirely and twitter is not a directs sales site. The other issue is that you can have the best marketing strategy in the world and if you have a substandard product it won't sell no matter how good your marketing is. That is the one point all the marketing gurus on this site seem to leave out and most peoples on here do not want to admit. It is easier to say one is not selling because of their lack of marketing as opposed to admitting maybe it is not my marketing that is the issue but the product I am marketing.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 2:45 PM

i understand marketing much better than you think.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Photography By Sai on 11/08/2013 - 2:48 PM

Spot on John!!! You hit the nail on the head!


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 2:48 PM

I apologize and should have realized that based on your avatar.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 2:58 PM

my avatar is a part of marketing.

thing is, if twitter is creating a buzz - and the image isn't that good to look at - does having the image on twitter help or hurt that person?

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Photography By Sai on 11/08/2013 - 3:07 PM

If the image isn't that good to look at in the first place, why offer it as a product for sale?


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 3:09 PM

Good point Sai.


Posted by: Amanda Stadther on 11/08/2013 - 3:11 PM

An interesting thread which I am learning a lot from so thank you. Would someone kindly explain what hash tags are and and how I would use them to promote my photos. I already tweet photos..and if I'm truthful I probably randomly spam, more than target a specific audience.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 3:25 PM

because people offer anything for sale. and they think it's good enough to sell. stuff that i think looks like junk might be the cream of their crop. but did they create a buzz on it or not? did their views increase or decrease since trying?

i know my stuff looks good. whether i would get a boost in sales because i showed the picture is unknown.

a hashtag is a keyword you want to use to attract a possible person.

#catlover #kitchenArt #mustang #hotdogsANDrelish - those are all hashtags. each one attracts a certain type of person that might be looking for them. sometimes i'll make things up to get people to look at it. i don't have any specific examples though.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 3:25 PM

those work in facebook too btw.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 3:50 PM

Here is the same issue and mistake that is said over and over again on this site and it does show a lack of understanding between marketing and selling. Trying to figure out how many sales one gets from twitter, which is marketing, is a total waste of time and demonstrates a lack of understanding. Marketing and selling are two different beasts. Why do companies have a marketing department and a sales department? Because they are two different functions. Interrelated yes, but different.

Marketing is to generate buzz. It is to gain interest. It's is the introduction. It's the introduction to get someone to walk into a store. Interest alone does not guarantee a sale. Anything to do with marketing should solely be judged on its ability to generate interest and buzz about yourself as an artists or the product you are peddling.

Selling is the closing of the deal. The finalization of the sale. We market on twitter,Facebook, in print, etc. to get someone to come into our store here at FAA or AW. The goal of twitter is to bring people here not to sell. The act of selling and closing the deal is done by our own FAA page or AW. Now what impacts the sale? The product or image you are offering. Without a doubt the number one factor. The price of the product. The ease of use of the site I am buying from. Did I get an antivirus message? Does the site crash? Did I have a bad experience with a return in the past. Besides the image and the price there are a lot of factors that impact the sale. How does the image look on FAA? Lots of things. What you do twitter or any other social media site has nothing to do with these factors. Marketing vs. Selling. Twitter is for marketing, FAA is for selling.

How does a auto dealer get you in the lot? You see an ad with the new corvette. A nice shiny red one. I saw it in a magazine, on the side of a bus, and in a subway billboard. It got me interested. One day I am driving by a Chevy dealer and I think, wow I want to see that corvette. That's marketing. I go inside and I see the vette. It's gorgeous but it's very expensive and only has 2 seats and I married with 4 kids. The vette won't work for me. But why I am here I look around and see a nice SUV that is is my budget and meets my needs. I like the atmosphere of this dealership so I decide to buy the SUV. That's selling based on a product I like and fits my needs. Now, if I go back to the original ad of the vette and say how many vettes did i sell, and realize the answer is zero, would I say that is a bad ad campaign or a good one? Let's zero vette sales but I generated more interest in the Chevy brand that then translated to sales of other products I offer, then I would say the vette ad was a good campaign that in the long run generated more sales for me.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 3:59 PM

right to bring people here. but if the image doesn't appeal, they will skip right over it and go elsewhere. if you get them in the door they may see you have other things and keep looking.

it really depends who you trying to get into your store. art is hardly an impulse buy, while a car isn't either, it really is. if your already in the market for a car, you won't need any of that stuff. people looking for art already know what they basically want. the reason why many of these picture ads don't work in twitter is:

1. it doesn't say your selling anything, just that you posted it there.
2. without hashtags you don't have the right eyes to look at it.
3. without a large amount of followers, no one will see those ads
4. again without the tags they will stay on your page and not be spread around.
5. if you show them the goods up front, they will pass it right on by. they may not even realize that your a store or your trying to sell it. these might be your vacation photos for all their care about.

which is better? who knows. twitter isn't the only place you should be on btw. it's only used here because the question was about twitter. it's hard to create a buzz for only a 100 people. if a persons work isn't that great, they shouldn't be posting it on twitter because who would click on it then? at least if they are in the store there is a chance that people will explore more.

i'm not even sure why your arguing this.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 4:08 PM

I am not arguing I am trying to correct the misconceptions that you keep posting about twitter and marketing in general so people who do not know twitter that well might have a chance to use it to there advantage. Your first statement above about it not saying you are selling anything is the biggest mistake people make. If you announce you are selling something you just made yourself the equivalent of a door to door salesmen. No one one will want to click your link or want anything to do with you. That is not what Twitter is for. Twitter and marketing in general is a little more sophisticated in its approach. It something that you have made clear in this thread that you have no knowledge of. But you continue to post a lot of bad advice and information so people are going to correct you.


Posted by: Photography By Sai on 11/08/2013 - 4:09 PM

i'm not even sure why your arguing this

Because everyone has the freedom to express their thoughts! With all due respect, just because you have your opinion, doesn't mean that everyone needs to agree with what you have to say :)



Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 4:15 PM

misconceptions? how?

i'm selling fine, i've said nothing false. i don't say i'm selling anything, i just mark that i have it. but they have to click the link to see that it's a store. i think i'm doing pretty well on twitter or the use there of.

you go on and on and on about generating a buzz. you have like 14,000 tweets, none with tags so people can find it. you have only a 100 or so followers, so that is your audience. your generating the buzz in what is the equivalent to a train station on a very slow day. if the people aren't targeted, then even less than that.

i know what i'm doing when using these places, my sales record shows that. i get responses from different people which shows me they are seeing it. i get retweets from people that were never a friend. i do all that without those pictures.

the fact is - this thread is about opinions, but the only thing you did was argue from the very start, without really stating what your opinion is.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 4:26 PM

Mike you sell in spite of your misconceptions about marketing and social media and if you had half a clue what you were doing you would probably sell 10 times more than you do. You act like your the Steve Jobs or Bill Gates of FAA and the online POD world when in fact your making minimum wage at best. Still want to claim you know what your doing? No Mike as Sai said I am not arguing with you I am stating my opinion on twitter and marketing and what is wrong with your fact less opinions. That is not arguing and you do not seem to understand the difference between arguing and someone not sharing your opinion. Big surprise here.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 4:31 PM

do whatever, think whatever.

i know what i'm doing despite the fact you don't know what your talking about yourself. the opinion was about posting images in twitter, not downplaying the opinions of those that answered. you are not sharing an opinion.

an opinion is where you state the facts of why you like it and how you think it helps you.
what you are doing is arguing - because your telling me i'm wrong, when i'm not. will i sell better? who knows? did i say it was dumb to try it with pictures? no, i don't want to do it that way at this time. maybe in the future. but i do know what i'm doing despite what you think. if was playing bill gates, i wouldn't be in a POD, i would be running it.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 4:35 PM

I'm rubber your glue.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 4:36 PM


---Mike Savad


Posted by: Karyn Robinson on 11/08/2013 - 4:50 PM

When I tweet to promote one of my paintings I delete the "I uploaded new artwork..." and just leave the link, add my own comments and hash tags. How do I know if I'm sending the picture too? Thanks for the help...


Posted by: Ann Powell on 11/08/2013 - 4:57 PM

Karyn, I am with you. I do not know whether the picture is uploaded or not? Could someone please explain for beginning tweeters.


Posted by: Priya Ghose on 11/08/2013 - 5:05 PM

The only way to generate the picture is to check "yes" on the new upload or edit screen for each image. When you hit "submit" then the image is posted to Twitter. When you use the Twitter button on the image page itself all you get is (editable) text.

I use a combination of images and text with links. Also, once you post an image to Twitter, you can then copy the twitter image link (it will start out pic.twitter) then create your own new posts with hashtags, etc. For example: A ladybug heads out on a great adventure- "Ladybug Adventure" - #ladybug #insect #ladybird


Posted by: Amanda Stadther on 11/08/2013 - 5:08 PM

Mr Glue and Mr Rubber, I learned a lot (seriously). Many Thanks.


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 5:09 PM

i'm actually a turkey.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Amanda Stadther on 11/08/2013 - 5:11 PM

Well, many thanks to the three of you.


Posted by: Dan Turner on 11/08/2013 - 5:18 PM

"Mike you sell in spite of your misconceptions about marketing and social media and if you had half a clue what you were doing you would probably sell 10 times more than you do."

True, John. I've been down this road with Mike a few times...he ain't listening, and he ain't teachable.

Dan Turner
Dan Turner Fine Art
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
To Enjoy Dan Turner's Pinterest Boards, Click Here


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 5:27 PM

i'm plenty teachable, if what you say makes sense at all or if i can work with it.

dan - you state that i have to find the person and escort them to my store to maybe get the sale. to massage each client and work with just them - to get the sale. i don't do that. i would rather many come in and look around, rather than me hold each others hands to drag them in.

you either have time to do art, or to sell the art - not both. if your outgoing but not that creative, you can then sell lots of things because you have to act as a salesman. if your creative but not outgoing you use the things that work for you and concentrate on what your good at. i can't do it all.

the pictures are nice, i might try a few here and there. i still say that if your handing out a full slice of cake as a sample, there is no need to visit the bakery.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: John Rizzuto on 11/08/2013 - 5:37 PM

"i still say that if your handing out a full slice of cake as a sample, there is no need to visit the bakery. "

I have to agree with this reasoning. I have never seen a successful company hand out samples or do some marketing like a teaser to get people excited about there products. That would be like a movie studio putting out a trailer of movie before the movie came out. Why would they do that? I mean if you can see the 3 minute trailer why would anyone buy a ticket to see the entire film. I certainly stand corrected.


Posted by: Carol Lux Photography on 11/08/2013 - 5:47 PM

I think you're all correct with your marketing strategies. I agree with Mike, though. It all depends upon your personality. Laid back people sell well, and assertive people sell well. There is no one absolute way to sell well. Just my opinion, so far, from what I observe...


Posted by: Mike Savad on 11/08/2013 - 5:53 PM

there was a store a long time ago that gave out the best samples, every isle there were samples, really good stuff, we bought stuff there, but they eventually went out of business, probably due to the practice. we eat a pizza that we get at a wholesale club, we ate the sample and now buy the product. trader joes on the other hand has large samples of things. and i often go down there just to get a snack. never bought the stuff though.

part of my strategy is to create things that sell themselves. in that the buzz is the image, and people love it so much they advertise it for me (and hopefully credit me back). if images are ok but not outstanding, they will sit no matter what the presentation. if the image is really well done, that image can spread everywhere.

i say try every way. but until we can get stats on every page here, i won't know what really works. i can only go by the one page of stats i have, and that doesn't show me the whole picture. like i get more clicks from facebook since posting on all my links. not a lot mind you, but more than before.

---Mike Savad


Posted by: Photography By Sai on 11/08/2013 - 7:03 PM

LOL John!!! Good one!


Posted by: Dan Carmichael on 11/09/2013 - 7:48 AM

Thank you all for your lively discussion and info. There really is good info for virgin tweeters in this thread.

One quick note, tho. On FAA there will always be differences of opinion. We are a diverse family here. And as is true in all large diverse families, there will always be personality conflicts.

I personally believe that debates, even very "lively" ones, are productive and beneficial on FAA. People stating their knowledge and opinions, even passionately, is productive. Information and knowledge can be gleaned from it.

However, personal comments about the people in the debate is not necessary. It is possible, even easy, to state a point of view, even refute another's point of view, effectively while staying solely on the subject and not making personal comments about others.

In fact, it is my opinion that digressing from the subject matter into personal comments, or even attacks, actually dilutes your believability and trustability on the subject matter.

So if you wish to make the most powerful argument possible, it might be best to avoid the personal.

There is enormous knowledge and experience within this collective community. I hope all will try to apply this principle going forward.


This discussion is closed.