Windows 10 - And The User Agreement - Malware

I haven't installed Windows 10 yet. Thanks for that information, Mike. Good to know.

I have not yet upgraded to 10. This info is disturbing enough to cause me to continue to wait on the upgrade. Thanks, Mike.

Don't remove the door on your bathroom if you want privacy.

I was suspicious because anything given free on such a large scale has to have a catch. I have not and will not upgrade. Happy with my windows 8...

what i really wonder is - government computers? other companies and so on - can they now spy on everyone to that level? what is an - on a need to basis?

it sounds exactly what malware does - use your camera, mic, keyboard etc to spy on you. now i suppose if the gov. doesn't do anything its possible that they want to find terrorists and they are funding them to help find them... its not impossible but is kind of a conspiracy that i just made up. i do wonder if anyone found proof yet....

in any case i won't be installing this. i have no reason too. and any time a large company like them starts handing out and pretty much forcefully encouraging you to install their free software (when you can still buy the other two versions) - one has to wonder how they profit from it. they are getting money from some where.

@danl - the agreement basically states - when you turn your lock to open the door to your house, we have the right to rummage through your drawers, open the doors even if you have them, read your diaries and keep an eye on everything you do. and while you can turn off this feature, we won't tell you about it until we did all those things.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I heard someone mention the other day that they are adding the same tracking "features" to older versions of Windows as well, in the form of updates. I have not had a chance to verify this info yet. Regardless, this is why monopolies are dangerous. On the bright side, mebbe it will give Linux a boost.

If you are really concerned about what data you are giving away, cut up your credit cards and your store loyalty cards. Drop your Internet service and never leave your house again. Seriously, while I don't condone what MS, Apple, Google, or any of the other hundred software companies do with our data, the reality is that anyone with a credit card or store loyalty card has given up far more information about themselves than you can possibly imagine. Believe me, I know. I worked in Direct Mail for 15 years, and this was before the Internet era. For an example read up on how Target knew a teenager was pregnant before her father knew. Marketing departments have been mining your data for at least the past 75 years. It's a science.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

"there is some data online that suggests that windows 10 is mining your data just like malware does. while you can turn it off, its default is on. "

You can arrest assured that this is happening.

I bought a new laptop with 10 installed but when they installed it I had the techs at Office Depot strip out all of that stuff that they could. They told me at the time that they can remove a lot of it but some of it can not be removed.

Sure enough, now two or three months down the line I am getting pop up ads trying to sell me crap. I asked the techs at Best Buy if this is true, that some of that stuff can not be removed and they said yes. The also said that all of that stuff running in background is using resources so what ever resources the system says it has, it is actually less because of that crap they are using to track your shopping habits.

Something else one should know about Windows 10. It does no play well with an external monitor.

I bought a 25 inch HP monitor to use on the new HP laptop and a lot of functions from Photo Shop will not work on the external monitor. You have to move the program over to the laptop monitor to get them to work. I switched to a couple of other monitors and it was worse. Once you move the program to the laptop and them use that function one time, then it will work if you move PS back to the external. A real pain in the butt.

Here's another problem with 10, you can not turn off all of the automatic updates. Every once in a while when you boot your system, Windows takes control and does a system scan and then install new updates. I have asked both the Office Depot and the Best Buy guys to remove that feature and they said there is nothing they can do about it.

Simple - install Little Snitch. Oh... wait... you're on a PC :)

"If you are really concerned about what data you are giving away, cut up your credit cards and your store loyalty cards. '

I am not really that concerned with that side of it. I just hate having them taking control of my computer for 20 or 30 minutes at a time and losing the resources. Not to mention it is just plain annoying.

having a buying history is one thing. having someone rummaging through my private folders, bank accounts, documents, images, private info, etc, even recording me - that goes way beyond a breach of privacy.

there are things you can turn off - like amazon, turn the history and spying off. there are settings there that keep an eye on you with every amazon banner that pops up, and anything you bought or looked at shows you ads - but you can turn that off.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

" we have the right to rummage through your drawers,'

Wow! Now there's a visual I could have done without! lmao!!

I have Windows 10 - much better than 8.1 - not happy about the data harvesting... or the spying

Agree, better in some ways then 8... do you use an external monitor or dual monitors? Wondering if you are having problems like the ones I am having.

dual monitors is more of a video card support thing. be sure you have the latest drivers direct from your video card company. also check for other malware, because i'm thinking that if microsoft is taking data they wouldn't tell you by popping ads up on your screen like that. they would be the ones harvesting data and selling it to companies that send it to the malware that show you the ads.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I haven't updated to 10 yet, and I probably won't now. I'm sure, as this info gets more coverage, there will be a hue and cry. I mean, what the heck, Microsoft! This makes you look like greedy bastards...don't you have enough already? The vast majority of people upgrading or buying new computers with 10 already installed do not know how...nor are they expected to know how, to turn off this feature. I actually checked on Snopes because I couldn't believe this. Thanks for the alert, Mike! Microsoft, you're giving yourself a bad name.

Sheeesh you join Twitter, FB, etc.....they are doing the same thing. Gathering your contacts etc......

If Windows 10 is running slowly you need to run your anti virus on it. It came with malware not from MSFT.
But that has possibly been resolved by now.

I like 10. But I liked 8.1. The funny thing is 10 is just a new front and a few changes behind the scenes to 8.1.
On servers commonly 12 is running. 12 is another front for an older version. It is now nothing to upgrade the OS and change its title.

Dave

i'm guessing is, they don't have enough. there are other operating systems, some you can get for free. would not shock me if google started making stuff for pc's. many are tired of their name. google is taking over every single market and fast too. google probably won't get in trouble for getting to large like microsoft because it think they divide things up better.

i did check snopes, but didn't see anything. only time will really tell if they do things. i do still wonder how safe data is for gov people. everything is encrypted when it goes out, but it should be safe in your own pc. i guess the only thing you can do is get off the net, but that has issues as well, like not being on the net.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

contacts in facebook aren't the same thing and you have a choice -don't join. windows, you have to use. but this is way more than just contacts. disabling software, and using your hardware against you - goes beyond learning a list of names. watching your email, that's not nice.

i remember when IRC did that. they would watch what you say and the next day, it came back at you in the form of ad's.

but this is software you have to use to make the pc work. its like saying that now that you pay taxes, they have the right to bug your house and do a KGB style thing to your home.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

A couple weeks ago the Windows 10 icon appeared on the system tray. I ignored it and now it's gone. But even though I'm still running Win 7 I think Win 10 may have installed something because now whenever I launch a program (programs I've used for ages) I get that annoying pop-up asking me if I want that program to make changes to my computer. It feels like Win 10 is lurking in the shadows.

"If you are really concerned about what data you are giving away, cut up your credit cards and your store loyalty cards. "

For that reason I limit use of my debit card. I don't have a credit card and I don't use store loyalty cards. The internet is another ball of wax though, when possible I use PayPal to make online purchases. You can take some steps to minimize these privacy intrusions but you can't escape them.

I bought a new PC with Windows 10 factory installed. I'm happy with it. I turned off Cortana.

having a buying history is one thing.

Yes Mike, keep saying that to yourself over and over. It might come true. And yet, as highlighted in my link above, it's more than enough to discern things about you, your income, and personal habits that you think are limited only to you and your immediate family. Like I said, its a science in itself.

Keep in mind too that you do not own the software like you do you car. You license it. Beware of licensing agreements.

You can take some steps to minimize these privacy intrusions but you can't escape them.

Exactly!

the main gist is this - if you had spyware on your system and it was taking your data and everything else - you would be like - get that off my system right now, and who do i sue? yet when its your operating system - your mellow about it? and totally ok? its hard to beware of a license agreement when its the main software everything runs on. its really as simple as that. and when the software didn't do it before and does do it now -- why are some of you so blah-say about privacy? just a few years ago intel launched the unique ID number. and while it wasn't for tracking - everyone screamed about it.

yet now, everyone is far to chill about the topic.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Mike, I'm with you...I am not chill nor am I mellow with this. I feel like Microsoft is trying to hoodwink unsuspecting people. It's all good and fine if you're computer savvy like many in the small world of FAA. But the average John or Jane is not that savvy. And if you're not expecting to root out a problem like this...afterall, people trust Microsoft...then that's where I think they're trying to pull a fast one. I don't like it and it gives me a bad feeling.

Mike, the reason they're making it free is because (1) Instead of making their money from selling Windows, they're now selling online services that depend on an up-to-date operating system. (2) They want to keep your Windows up to date to keep ahead of viruses and other malware so that viruses stop spreading like wildfire among PCs. (3) They're tired of having to support generations of outdated Windows versions. (4) Apple, the competition, is already giving away their major updates free (and that's to sell hardware, if you're wondering about it).

Makes perfect sense to me. (But I'm on a Mac.)

Aaron

Then it is not really free then is it? If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. No company is "giving" away things with no strings attached, they would not be in business long, I do not trust Windows 10 and will not upgrade for "free".

Exactly Tim. Not new.

@DanTurner: "...you can turn off data sharing..." Here's a link to a good guide on how to do that, step by step: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f38ed/guide_how_to_disable_data_logging_in_w10

Read the Comments too as there are some useful tips as well.
Level: Beginner/Intermediate computer user.

isn't this fun, my father's computer was having issues trying to back up weird folder: $windows.~BT it turns out that this is related to windows 10 - something we didn't ask to do anything with and its eating up 6 gb of space. i just looked at my machine, and despite not having that little windows 10 icon at the bottom, i do have that directory and one with a WS extension - taking up 10gb of of drive space (its a ram drive so every byte counts). one day i started losing space on that drive and i didn't know why... that's why. it downloaded a copy to my system without my permission and put it on a drive that's the main drive, one of which i ran out of space because of it.

now i have to find out how to get rid of it, and how to prevent it from downloading again.

and the real shifty part - its a hidden directory, i have mine set to on - so i can see it. most would never know its there. and just lost a ton of space.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Lori, I like your high tech solution of masking tape! lol

Islander, makes perfect sense, also once you use Win 10 Microsoft figures you are more likely to buy the commercial software if it applies.

Janina, thanks for the link, I need to take Cortina off and maybe a few other apps.

Mike, that folder vis part of the Win 10 setup, and yes, you can delete it. Do a search online, there is a way to turn that off so it isn't downloaded again without your consent. A little sneaky yes, absolutely, cause I guess the folks in charge figured no one would refuse free, so they decided to help you out by downloading the setup files, so when you finally decided to upgrade the files are already there. The $ in front makes it a hidden folder that only shows when you have windows show hidden folders.

i looked for that update file, couldn't. i hope it does not come back. thing is - its not just sneaky, its not really criminal, but at the same time, without my permission it put in a very large folder that i did not need. they didn't even ask. the fact its hidden shows they are hiding it. most people don't look for these files i know i didn't bother. i wouldn't have either if i didn't have to look into it. but when i see my main drive is disappearing at an alarming rate over days, i thought i had a malware issues and scanned the system for issues. i never found any. still i had to clear programs i wanted to keep there, because i had no space for them any more. and i needed the free space for the swap file. its all very irritating and rude.

if there is another way to make sure it doesn't appear again, besides that update file i can't find, i'd like to know about it.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Why would a large profitable corporation do such a underhand thing??

Reminds me a bit of the Christmas they gave us the DVD. The first tech that no-one asked for, just "This is the future!"

Is volkswagoned a word yet?

People keep talking about hackers getting into your system. Odds are low that happens to individuals. Companies are more profitable for them. What Microsoft is doing is a hackers dream. gave itself full access to every facet of every win machine on the planet. All that is needed now is a hacker to break that bit of code and they can hit millions of machines for what ever bank and credit card info they want along with other personal information. No need to hack companies for it as Microsoft just gave them the tools to hit everyone. Just a matter of time.

No system is 100% secure but history has shown Linux is by far the most because of it's open source,and it's completely separate root access.

"People keep talking about hackers getting into your system. Odds are low that happens to individuals."

Not only is this wrong, it's a very dangerous mindset. As an online boutique owner for 16+ years, I notify countless customers every month whom I recognize when I get email that makes me aware their system has been compromised. As a professional geek online before even email existed, this has gotten progressively worse every year and is now approaching critical mass. Your best approach is not to trust anyone nor any site, and do everything you do online as cautiously as possible. And by all means disable Flash. Do it now.

I was perusing my On Demand offerings yesterday and Comcast keeps a small window open in the top right corner continuing to show the last channel you were viewing. I caught the tail end of a commercial...it was MS advertising Win 10. The part I caught said something like 'and with Cortana you get personal help finding what you want on the Internet'...something to that effect. In any case, they were referring to Cortana as a helper, and certainly not mentioning anything about what it does behind the scenes. So, again, unsuspecting people may recall this commercial and quickly click on the box choosing it, without reading about what Cortana really is.

I also immediately blocked my camera with a folded post-it and tape when I bought this last laptop. I didn't want to actually put the tape on the lens. It's easy to remove and put back.

after i ran disk clean up to remove different things the system didn't needed, i ended up with 20gigs free. hard to know if it was all 10 or not.

i have to see what cortana is on youtube, she looks creepy. ideally i can only assume microsoft is banking on people who like chatting with an AI. talking about medical problems, and other issues, then selling that data to send that person ad's. it would make a lot of sense used that way. ideally my keyboard and mouse serves as my assistant, i would feel stupid talking to a computer. or at least in a way its being used here.

same reason i would never drive in a google car. provided its actually safe to drive in and hackers don't take it, it would drive me by all the sponsors first.

it is kind of sad though that we have to cover the camera on a computer just in case windows or someone is spying. its a good measure though because backdoor hackers have access to it as well, and some people are naked in front of their pc.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Lol at "some people are naked in front of their pc" ....probably very true...not true for me...but I'm sure there are many naked web surfers out there!

LOL, I'm always naked in the summertime and look like the Michelin man in winter. Neither version a treat for prying eyes and it would serve them right!

Cortana is simply Personal Assistant software, like Apple's Siri or Google Now. Same thing, folks. Here's a short vid comparing the three:



As stated before, users can turn Cortana off and on as desired. Also, Win 10 has the most extensive Privacy on/off controls ever built into an OS. Here is a sample screen shot. Note the list of options on the left, each with it's own individual controls, down to individual apps and programs. Your system can be completely tailored to your needs.




Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

the problem is all those controls are set to ON. and you have to know to look for them. things that deal with your privacy should not default to on. i know the basics of what cortana is, they want to make the PC into a big phone interface. but they won't ever be that. some of those questions sounds like they will send advertising to you in any language if you don't check off that last option.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Susan. you're talking about email spoofing and hijacking. That does not require a single hack on a persons system. They get those from other sites and the ISP itself. As well as public access points where security is often weak and they can get all sorts of info just by sending emails. All they need access to is info data mined from companies they hacked which is shared among the hacker community. I have been doing this since the 80's including running a BBS server on DOS back in the days of 300 baud modems. Was sysadmin of a corporate UNIX system and using Linux since the early 90's as my primary home systems. Never been hacked because I take every precaution, starting with using Windows only when I have to and even then pretty much just a gaming system.

"the problem is all those controls are set to ON. and you have to know to look for them."

No matter what you're doing or what program you're in, they are always only three clicks away: The lower left Win logo, Settings, Privacy.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

doesn't matter how many clicks they are. they are set to on by default. by the time you find them it already copied what it wanted and sent it away. it should be an option that i can turn ON not something i have to turn off. but this is all moot since i will never install that terrible program on my machine. the fact they uploaded it my machine in silence told me enough to stay away from that program.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

"but this is all moot since i will never install that terrible program on my machine."

Getting out of the business? Getting a Mac? Planning on using Win 7 for the next 30 years? Or just planning on buying a new computer with Win 10 already installed?

Incidentally, Win 10 is slated to be the last numbered version. After 10, because updates are now so easy and automatic (which you can shut off) it will just be known as Windows.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

LOVE Cortana but I have to admit to preferring Siri

I have Genie on my LG G4 (preinstalled). I asked her a few questions the other day and she suddenly said, 'I am not feeling well, ask me again later' !!! This is what things have come to, even my assistants are rude or lazy... I know she wasnt ill!!! or....... was she.

i'll use windows 7 until i totally have to change over. so far i see no advantages at all in getting 10. i can buy a new pc with 7 or 8 right now. and i build them myself so i have the software.

in any case any program that forces itself on me is deemed very suspicious.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

abbie have you tried to threaten your phone after it pulled a stunt like that?

in my case the note 2, i never got the google to work at all. i gave up on the second day and don't miss it.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

"i'll use windows 7 until i totally have to change over."

:-) I suspected you were just being overly dramatic by saying "never." You will be eligible for the free upgrade until 07/28/2016. MS gets MS. At which point you will be saying "Wow! I can't believe I waited. This is SO cool!" -- or whatever the Savad equivalent of that sentiment is. Probably "I don't see any big difference."


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

I think my next computer is going to be a Mac..