Photographers Vs Painters

I use photographs of paintings. But I do not take photos. I do not paint.

I am a digital artist.

photogs v brush users v computer users? With everyone using a computer.

Dave

Good point David! I changed the topic. Thanks!

Why were you asking?

Curious mostly. It seems to be more photographers than anything. Must be mighty competitive.

Innocent question that may rekindle the age old debate.

I hope that is not the case but if it is, I hope the "With everyone using a computer" comment stays in the front of everyone's mind as they think of their response.

In the very broad sense of the word, everything sold on a POD is digital work.

Oh, this could well get as heated as the recent flag threads but at least it isn't political.

Try and keep it civil folks.

I had no idea this would be taken this way.

My question was merely a curious one about how many painters are showing here and how many photographers.

Yes, of course we are all using cameras and computers. That doesn't have anything to do with my question. I don't have any interest in digital art, it's all wonderful of course but I don't want to do it myself.

I just want to know if 80% here are photographers (and I don't mean photographing paintings) and maybe 20% painters. I am just curious!

I intended no heat!

I am a photographer and a digital artist and recently have started traditional sumi-e painting, although as yet have none of my regular paintings online. Truth is, everyone needs to have a good knowledge of photography in order to get quality work online. You can create the most breathtaking painting, but if it has not been photographed using a professional level camera with the right lighting, large prints are going to be terrible quality! Best thing to do is limit the print size if you have not been able to use professional equipment.

Probably more painters who are also photographers then photographers who also paint. Just a guess.

There will always be more photographers as the learning curve is faster than paintings (well I'm sure this is open to debate also). The trick with photography is to be able to create a unique style.
...

There is a whole other dimension to this curiosity - what percentage of sales are photographs vs. paintings? Or just the number of images in each category - obviously there are more photographs uploaded but how about sales percentage? Or how many visits come in from one medium or another.

As a collective body on a fine art site I'm glad to be among so many talents in all mediums. Very inspiring.

Diane, that is very true. I am not a very good photographer. I get lucky sometimes though. I do photograph my paintings but I got a lot of help here on my settings. Thanks to all who helped me with that! I feel my paintings are photographed better. I am ALWAYS open to suggestions and help with that if someone feels one would look better photographed in a better way.

Edward, yes that is probably true.

I guess there is no clear way to answer this question as so many things overlap.

My feeling about this is that it's hard for watercolor painters to compete with photographs. It's hard for watercolors to compete with oil paintings too. Am I off here?

Online somethings become more or less difficult. Since they are all prints it they all end up with generally the same value.

In the offline world you have a market forces that value mediums more or less than others - photograph generally less than watercolor which is valued generally less than acrylic which is valued generally less than oil.

Yes, Edward. That's my feeling too.

You are absolutely correct Diane!

Painters have a great advantage of being able to show their process via blogs, time lapse, YouTube videos. While the online thumbnails fail to capture the impact of a painting seen "live" (of course photographs also suffer not being seen displayed live too), painters can use online media to show what can't be seen in the final little thumbnail.

Photographers have a tougher time showing process, me thinks.

On the other hand, photographers have an advantage of larger inventory and probably easier keywording. Especially in the online world where people are used to thinking of their final destination and then entering as a keyword instead of wandering through a gallery and coming upon something they didn't know they would have to have.

Another good point Edward! That gets me more excited about making a video. Thanks!

Shirley, if you are asking about the ratio of painters vs. photographers, I would venture to say that the numbers would be vastly different. Probably ten photographers or more to each painter.

"My feeling about this is that it's hard for watercolor painters to compete with photographs. It's hard for watercolors to compete with oil paintings too. Am I off here?"

Yes and no.

You are off in that everyone thinks it is hardest to compete using their chosen media. Photographers think Painters sell more. Painters think photographers sell more. Yes, that is a broad and sweeping generalization but I see the statements made a LOT here and I hear them made in the brick and mortar gallery I show in.

The reality is selling art in any medium is a tough business but many mange to do so. If you want unopinionated fact hit the search button on FAA without imputing a subject. That will give ALL art on FAA as a result. Sort it by best sellers. That will give you an ordered list of best selling images on FAA.

What you will find is that ALL the 2D mediums are represented in the first few pages. It is worth noting that photographs are in the minority so while there may be more of them on here they do NOT dominate the best sellers. I cannot always tell what other medium was used so judge for yourself on what they are.

Now what that doesn't account for is artists like myself that have no images at all in the first 20 pages of that list but sell a lot of different images. My guess is that is somewhat easier as a photographer simply because it is somewhat easier to be prolific at production, but again, that varies from artist to artist and there are painters that produce a LOT of work too.

In the offline world painters also have the advantage of galley space. More galleries will accept painting than photography.

To Edward's point I do have a YouTube video planned on how I will capture an old bridge image or three. It involves a snake and bug infested swamp, climbing, repelling and safety gear. An old rickety structure and no guarantee of capturing anything useful but it should be fun and the video will be good for the eulogy if it is an epic fail.

Yupp....

Of the 125 artists in the space, my co-op limits the number of photographers to 8.

I hear watercolor snakes sell well BTW, just a rumor of course though.

Phyllis, that is exactly what I wanted to know. I kind of got off my own topic here.

JC, that sounds totally exciting!!!

I wish I could be a part of a co op. I live in So GA. Not even a gallery here at all.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryntully/2012/12/09/the-steady-rise-of-fine-art-photography/

"Historically, prices for fine art photography have tended to be much lower than those fetched by artists working in other medium"

Online selling just comes together nicely for photography. Whereas the painter is selling a degraded version of their original (no matter how well it is captured and printed), the photographer can pretty much sell the same product they would online or offline.

If it is about competition, like is one better than the other, then it is difficult. If just how one chooses to be known ex., photographer, painter(meaning, oil, watercolor, mixed media), sculptor, digital artist, and on this site, how many of each, then yes, might be interesting to know. However, it appears many consider themselves to be a combination: Listed as photographer, but also do paintings and even digital art. And digital art can also be a combination of all . So that does become a bit confusing. Now another questions is: which sells more on FAA , photos, paintings or digital art? I do not think there are any stats on that.

JC, that brings up a funny story or two.

I've done several phone book covers, I had to do what they wanted so it took 6 tries before they accepted one. One of the submissions was of an alligator as this IS So GA. They rejected it because they were afraid little old ladies would be afraid to pick one up. ( I myself am a little old lady, so don't take offense anyone!)

Another story... My husband is a potter. He and I did a show in a hospital here together. My paintings of flowers hung on the wall. His pottery, which has snakes winding around them were in glass cases. The hospital called us to come and remove the pottery, as it was scaring people...

GEEEEZZZZZ!

Mary, it's hard to just ask about differences without it inferring competition too. So your answer kind of answered a lot of questions.

Dick Blick catalog sells special preparations for painting on black and white photographs by hand. :-)

I am a painter, I enjoy messing around with both photographs and computers but
my heart lies in painting.

You know I think that the point itself is mute. I am a photographer and I wish I could paint. There was another painter up above who wished he could do photography. Its like asking a band who is better, the guitarist, the drummer or the keyboard player. Like, If I were going to buy wall art, I would buy a painting, not a photograph. But that's just me. On the flip side, photography isn't just pointing at a landscape and pushing a button. Its framing, its setting the exposure, its keeping steady to reduce camera shake and then once it is taken, you have to go to your digital Lightroom and post process it. Just like a painting, if you want it perfect you have to take the time to go over it in detail. Art is art.

I ran a test on the keyword "Brown Pelican".

Number of images tagged "brown pelican" 4,542

Number of photographs 3,573

Number of paintings 256

Of the top 10 best sellers, 6 were paintings, 4 photographs. I see a pattern here.

I hope that one of those pelican paintings were mine!!! LOL

Bradford,

I would be a bit wary of the"Best Sellers" listing, considering FAA algorithms

Edit:

Particularly since all 4542 "Brown Pelican" images are best sellers

I'm a painter, though most of what I've posted here has been drawings. My general impression is that there are more photos

Todays numbers - new uploads
Paintings 820
Photographs 3357

Thanks Bradford! That's very interesting. Was there a breakdown of watercolor acrylics or oils?

Robert, that is so true!

photos
paintings
digital art

Who is working harder? So who can post more images over time?

No one ever thinks the next guy is working as hard. Or ever wants to admit such.

Work hard and play just as hard.

Dave

For the buyer, being able to purchase a print of a painting is a real savings. You can buy a Van Gogh for a fraction of the cost of the original. With photography the difference isn't as much.

...

Anyone can paint. Anyone can take a photo. The challenge is to be good. ;-)

......

As an art buyer I'm going to purchase something that I know I can't do myself.

If 90% of today's uploads are photos of flowers in the garden, its not really going to add much competition to anyone.

David, this has nothing to do with who works harder. It's customer perception. I know how hard it is to learn the camera on the professional side of the dial. I had (am having to) learn it now. As far as painting, I've always painted. But every painting is different, just like getting the perfect photo.

Customer perception... I am a sculptor too. I do life size people, mostly children. I sculpted, molded and cast three children in cold bronze. Cost me $1500 just for materisals. Someone saw them and said, "Oh, one of those would look good in my yard" and offered me $100. Sigh.... And no she didn't get one.

The amount of work makes absolutely no difference in how someone views or values your art.

Edward, it's not how good one is, it's what someone is looking for. Cutsey art sells well...

Why can't cutesy be good?

I think its more of doing what the buyer can't. Hard to sell a photo that the buyer thinks they could do themselves. Hard to sell a painting the buyer feels is just a few scribbles that they could do. (even if it took days to create).

The buyer has to respect and admire the work and appreciate the skill behind it before they will buy.

I didn't say there was no skill there. I just said it sells well on many products. Seems to be a bigger market. I can't be whimsical myself. I've tried, turns out looking demonic.

I'm talking about basic value. If you offer photos that look no different than what the buyer themselves take, you won't sell. People will say, why should I pay for that?

Part of the reason abstracts are so hard to sell. The non-buyer most likely has no experience in trying to create an abstract so they assume its easy. They say "My kid could paint that".

Makes no difference how long the image took to create or cost to make. An public uneducated in the arts is detrimental to selling because they have no experience in creating. They have no idea the cost or time involved.

Another good reason to show your process.

Edward, good points all!

Shirley,
Did anyone from admin answer the question?

Marlene, I don't know who they are exactly. It's not a critical question, I was just curious.

By sheer quantity I would guess there are more photographs for sale than prints of paintings because of the new technology available to people. There are a lot more people coming out now claiming to be photographers because everything you buy now a days has a camera attached. (Veteran photographers probably dislike this trend as well) Granted many of these photos are likely of "snapshot" quality and may never sell. It does pad the numbers a bit though. It's easier at times to be more prolific with photography than painting, which I suspect is another reason some traditional painters also dabble in photography.

Hi Shana, I think you are right. I also think that lots of people who start painting feel the same way. It seems fast and easy. But neither is easy and of course we all know there is more to it. I think when their pieces don't sell, they may quit as easily as they began.

I couldn't quit, no matter if I sell or not. I have a need, that need fuels me. I know many of you will understand that!

I completely agree.

The case study of Richard Roselli.

He is a Pensacola area artist that sells well both locally in live venues and here on FAA. He is both a gifted painter and photographer. His portfolio here is broken down to 20% paintings with 80% photography.

If you look at his best sellers though, 50% of his top 36 sellers are paintings. While it could come down to what he promotes or what has been here longer the stats seem to indicate that the paintings sell better than the photographs though both sell well for him.

What I have seen at live venues is that photographers have to overcome the "I could do that" mentality since everyone is a photographer these days. It really does often come down to the buyer going, well no, I don't think I could do THAT.....

I also think people are generally more critical of photographs. A painting can be anything and the artist can say... I meant to do that.

But photos have to be sharp, there are tighter guide lines. I'm sure there are some exceptions but generally...

Interesting conversation.

"What I have seen at live venues is that photographers have to overcome the "I could do that" mentality since everyone is a photographer these days. It really does often come down to the buyer going, well no, I don't think I could do THAT....."

I guess you would consider this o/t but I was at an outdoor festival with art booths yesterday and noticed easily the booths with photography had less active browsers. You are spot on JC with your comment above. I've also experienced the same thing with my own work. The paintings garner more conversations and more folks appreciating the pieces more than my photographs. Truth is, yes anyone can take the photos I take.

Sorry.....photographers have to take a back step because people demand hand made art!

that's not true.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

FAA is a POD, nothing is hand made here.