Why Do People Take Cheap Shots At Artists?

when i was little i did stained glass and went to an art show. i remember a few times people putting their drink down, pulling out their cash, counting it, putting it back into their pocket and walking away. i seemed to have been nothing more than a table for their drink.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

At least they're not stealing your paintings and putting them on their blogs and retail sites.

Really Mike? Now the difference between you and another child is that you rose above that experience. But for another child that could have been devastating. I am not hurt because I found the behavior deplorable and child like but I did think what gives with this chick???

As creative people we put ourselves out there, you just have to laugh these things off and move on. A tough skin is part of the business.

That is very true Edward.

This is not unlike the comment pretty much every photographer hears at one time or another, "you must have a really nice camera". The people that really appreciate your work and "connect" with it will buy it, and if they can't, they won't make dumb comments like this.

Every show I hear: what camera I use?; oh you must have a good camera; my [insert friend, family member, dog] has one of those cameras and is a photographer - I should tell them to sell their stuff; I'd get this/that/a bunch of your work if only I had wall space.

I always get the ones that think my canvas prices are steep (they are well below what they should retail at, but the shows I do I'm lucky to get what I ask - and I get really great whole sale pricing), or my prices are spot on... and on and on... can't please everyone so best to just move on and focus on the folks that do appreciate your work.

I have a really nice camera, Chuck :-D

I wonder how often people tell a great pastry chef "You must have a great oven"

This woman was probably just trying save face in front of her friend. She couldn't afford it and didn't want her friend asking "You really seemed to like that painting, why didn't you buy it?"

Truth: "Because my drunk husband spend his paycheck gambling on the horses last night"

Cover up: "Oh that, I could paint that"

:You have to be thick skinned to be in this business. I can't tell you how many times customer's came into my art booth and made snarky remarks about my photography. One guy last month asked me if I took the photos, or did I get them from China. Sheesh! I've had folks come in my booth and spill beer/wine all over my table w/ my photos on them and walk away and still not buy anything. Grrrrr!

"The fox and the sour grape!"

Rhonda,
One thing I do is put prices on everything. I truly believe that a lot of this is embarrassment and sour grapes is over not being able to afford something.

I know a lot of artist believe making a client ask gives them an opportunity to 'convince them' but I'm not a used car salesman and salesmanship isn't my strength. I think I'm more likely to blow the deal trying to justify myself than letting them just think about what I've posted. I write better than I talk sales.

My own shopping behavior is very unfriendly to salesmen. I won't go look at cars till the dealership has closed for the day. Even on the web if I have to sign up to see something or ask for a price I'm off to the next site.

I don't barter or come down off my prices and putting it in print will stop most people from asking. Non-priced things seem to send the message "I'm willing to negotiate".

Fortunately my work is intricate enough that few question my skill but still I think this is a simple solution and will save you and your clients a lot of grief. Yesterday a client came in the gallery and looked around for awhile then asked me about the price on an original (which was 5G-I could hear the disbelief in his voice). So I confirmed that was the price on originals and how the price is based (I use a $/sq inch method on originals and commissions) but then showed him canvas prints of the image that were available. No one ever wants prints if originals are available even if they can't afford them. He left after placing a deposit on a +10G commission. Works for me.
-- mary ellen anderson

Told this before but will again....

BFs mother looks at my photography and digital art for months and oohs and ahhs over it
BFs mother comes round and sees an oil painting I have done ... 'Oh' she says, 'I didn't realise you were an artist!'

*sigh*

I like people's reaction when I show them the image that is my best seller, then tell them it was taken with a crappy $40 point and shoot.

Mary, thanks that is very good advice and information. I don't agree with bartering prices for artwork either. Even though I must admit that sometimes the waiting game gets a little difficult with original paintings. At least for me. I do sell but not as consistently as I would like. In the gallery I am in I do have prices on my work. But I will admit that there are times when I am tempted to barter. The insult from the person whom I originally referred to did not cause me to want to barter at all. Lesson learned--From now on I will definitely have a price on any piece I have on display no matter where it is being displayed. I am not a sales person either and without a lot of encouragement from others I would not have ever sold anything.
Isabella--That is quite a story but very believable. There are a lot of people that don't see photography and digital art as fine art and I am sure that can be quite frustrating. But I don't think that is meant to be a direct insult as much as it is a matter of ignorance. It may not feel any better but there is a difference.

Abby I have gotten that line as well. Next time you go to her house for dinner compliment her and say you must have good pots the dinner was delicious.

As far as the 'didn't know you were an artist thing' than even I get that every day (and I've been doing this for 50 years). The issue is that none of us are just artists but we're always part artist. We meet people as mothers, scientists, tax preparers, business consultant, engineers, etc. and then they discover your much more. It helps me in art sales especially. It's like the home team has a champion. Your painting their lives, seeing what they love about themselves because you're also part of that world. Finding out that your more than an artist is a plus IMHO.
-- mary ellen anderson

Consider the source.
Anyone who would look you in the eye and lie on two counts, certainly shouldn't be someone who you'd spend more than a snicker on when she blurted out her truth.
At least she didn't ask to take a snapshot of the painting!
Rhonda, that was not a cheap shot directed at you as an artist....that woman acts this way to everyone all the time. I guarantee.

Iris, that was funny...

Very true Marlene..

Rhonda,
It also help to have a pricing theory that is explainable and consistent. Justifying an arbitrary price is a lot harder than proving that x$/sq inch = price.

Here's another thing I tell original buyers. "You don't want me to cut my prices." The resale value is based on the prices I'm getting. If you pay $10G for an original do you really want me to devalue that price by start selling similar works at $5G? You have to build trust with your collectors (and work with galleries and other sellers) or you'll only sell one work to them and believe me the easy crowd to sell to (if there is an easy) are people that believe in your work and value and have bet on you before.

-- mary ellen anderson

I solve this problem by assuming that everyone I meet is a complete idiot until proven otherwise. That way I am only pleasantly surprised! ;)

Marlene - it has been a few years since I did an art fair - and I did have one "gentleman" ask if I minded if he took a photo of one of my paintings - he was going to have his 'sign maker' make a large sign for his "trailer court" - seriously - the painting was only about $150 - and I would never have seen his #$%^&* trailer park or the sign. - no - he couldn't take a photo - but thank you for admiring my work.

I've heard the "my sister, brother, cousin, aunt" could paint that for me - my retort was always - well - that sounds like a good alternative - but no - you can't take a photo of it so they can paint one 'just like it' for you.

bahahaha oh that's funny lc bailey :P

Life is a critical proposition. The only way to avoid criticism is to lock yourself away and never do anything. No wait, you'll be criticized for that, too!


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Abbie, tell people why you're being cheap. Make people realize they're taking advantage of you in a dire spot. They will stop trying to talk you down and may even insist on paying you more.
-- mary ellen anderson

It almost sounds like some artist are suggesting that there is some sort of entitlement that comes along with being an artist.

Fact is most people do not know anything about art and don't care anything about art. And they don't think that most artist are contributing anything of value to society because they don't see value in it. One again, the guy that peed in the jar and called it art. That is just the way it is. There are people today that even 50-60 years after the genius of Picasso has been recognized still see his art as garbage.

There is no entitlement. There is no guarantee. If you want that, then go get that $42k a year job.

Why should anyone that does not see something as worth $300 pay $300 for it when they are just as happy with the $30 piece?

It' back to how many artist are driving a Kia vs Rolls Royce or even a Bentley or Cadillac? Why doesn't everyone have the right to chose what represents value for themselves? Where is written that everyone or anyone has to pay $300 for a piece of art when they don't see it worth $300?

Art is not one of Maslow's Physiological needs. As a matter of fact it on the top of the pyramid as one of the least important needs with the most important on the bottom.


People that have a tuff time selling usually don't understand what selling is. It is not expecting people to pay for something they don't want, don't need or do not see the value in.

Read my blog:

Selling Isn't Selling Its Problem Solving http://fineartamerica.com/blogs/selling-isnt-selling-its-problem-solving.html

Read that article and learn something about what selling is all about.

Also understand that what someone says about your artwork that is NOT a buyer to begin with is meaningless.

Not everyone that walks through a gallery or an art show is buyer. In fact the majority of them are not. Most of them are there for any number of reasons and not of those reason have anything to do with buying a piece of artwork. I go to a lot of art shows and art fairs and I am not a buyer. I go because the promoters expect me to. Then the quality of food will have a lot more to do with me going or not more so then the quality of the art. lol

Also keep in mind that most people that don't understand something will have a tendency to put it down. That is human nature and it is going to happen with no more or less frequency with art then anything else that people don't understand.

Case in point, how many artist put 'selling" and "salesman" down because the don't understand it them?

The difference is the guy that takes a cheap shot at the artist don't need to your art. But you do need to sell your art.

You talk about educating the buyer to the merits of your art or any art. Have you educated yourself on how to sell? You need to educate yourself on selling more then people "need" to educate themselves on art.

If you understood selling, you would also understood that when you have a prospect in front of you, if you don't understand selling, you may not even have a qualified buyer. If that is the case you can not educate him or her to buy and what difference is it if they make some crazy comment.

You have to learn how to recognize a potential buyer from the looker that is never going to buy.

Once again, if you want to maximize your selling efforts, go to school. Take a Salesmanship class and Business 101. A few nights for a few weeks, maybe a few months. You don't ever have to study it. Just sit there and listen.

Nothing sells itself unless it is one of the basic needs. Even order takers have to have some basic selling skill to get the sale handled and keep it sold until the money is in the back.

@Dave I am the one that posted that video originally. You totally missed the message if that was your response. Try watching the full video. It has nothing to do with making money, or getting rich at all. It's basically about believing in what you do no matter what it is, even if you are a janitor and that is what you love to do. He interviews the proudest janitor I've ever seen. The man love his job, and is super proud of his work. We should all be that excited about our work.

Thanks Floyd for that well written article. I went back and bolded this same message in my last post.

-- mary ellen anderson

I have to be honest with you LC. I could not get passed the first couple minutes. It was just too boring. But it did seem to me that there is a some sort of stereotyping going on there.

"People who do not really specialize are coming from a tough place of lack
of resources, money, support or often health problems. Getting jollies
off a crazy stat like 95% of people are "average" is worse than
meaningless. It is really insulting to many very good people in our lives. "

Agree Dave.

95% of people are just average?

Wow! That is just not something I can not agree with. I don't know anyone at all that is just average. Seems to me that anyone that buys into that is suffering from a serious case of arrogance. It goes back to a general lack of respect I mentioned earlier.

Thank you Mary Ellen, I seen your last post and I forgot to mention how right on the money you are. You get it. And you learned it the best way. On the front line of your business meeting and greeting and figuring out what it takes.

I love how Floyd talks about art like it's a used car because that is exactly what I think galleries are. A used car lot. Unfortunately most venues that sell art are used car lots.

If you want to sell and market your art you just need to do two things. Care about something, and get involved. The reason you get negative feedback from typical art fairs is because they aren't about anything other then self promotion, and making money. It's not all bad, but It's a bad environment to show your work in my opinion. Go to art fairs that champion a cause, or better yet start one yourself. You'll see a significant difference in the attendees, their attitudes, and what they are willing to spend. Everyone is there to support the cause, and if your art fits with the subject matter expect to sell out. Oh, and guess what? No one questions your prices at a Surf Rider Foundation event! ;) Don't put yourself in a used car lot, and become a car salesman because we all know how that makes people feel. Create the environment that you want to sell you work in, and attract the right kind of buyers. This attitude that artist have to sit around and wait for buyers to come to them, or become car salesmen is ridiculous.

My Dad use to say that things are only hard to sell when they're not in the right place at the right time for the right reason so make sure they are!

@floyd Okay so yeah that Janitors in South Africa who loved his job was just so privileged and knows nothing of hardship. Watch the damn video...lol

Floyd I study human behavior on a daily basis and I'm a mental health therapists so using a defensive argument as to whether humans are average or not is not going to sucker me in to claiming that they are. If you want the higher moral ground your going to have to earn it. You'll actually need to use intelligence to debate me. I am a master debater, and yes I did just say that. ;)

However I will indulge you. Read any psychology book in the last century and you will find the answer to that question. They got those number from real actual data. Do you really think they didn't fact check before they made that claim. This isn't some guy on Youtube shooting video on his iphone, and If you want to argue with a group of psychologist that most people perform on the level of Picasso, Steve Jobs, and Rembrandt, and so many other masters of their craft you are welcome to, but I don't recommend it....lol His point was that all humans have the capability to do work at that level, but don't for psychological reasons.

If we’re talking about the excellent video that LC posted than not sure the context of this particular quote, but I have no issues with 95% mediocrity figures (probably low). It’s really not that 95% of us are average it’s that only 5% are extraordinary. And why that is.

Most artists think their job is selling art. It’s not, it’s creating art. It’s following your vision to change the world. The janitor example is to illustrate that money, prestige, etc aren't what’s making this guy the happiest man in the world. It’s his realizing that his work makes a difference. It’s the pay of pleasing all the visitors to his office. Look at the elegance, literacy, pride and happiness this man has gained from the passion this man feels for his work and ask yourself if you’re pouring that passion into your work. Do you really consider this guy to be a poor man in life’s rewards?

This video is excellent at showing how safe most people play the game of life. They get bogged down in what’s has worked for them or others and rush to this safety. They protect themselves from failure and criticism and close their eyes to the visions at the fringes of their mind. Often by convincing themselves the issue is rude others than themselves.

I had posted this video in this thread because rather than being insulted when someone disc you, you should be sure enough of your vision to know that means you’re doing it right. Something made them stop at your booth and put you in the 5%. Now it’s up to you to prove you aren't trying to scam them, but change the world.

A janitor can do this with his work, can you?
-- mary ellen anderson

"You'll actually need to use intelligence to debate me. I am a master debater, and yes I did just say that. ;) "

LC,

Really? Keep printing those winks.

The debate was never with you. The debate is with the claim made in your linked video that 95% are average. What
is "average" define please? You watched the entire video.

Mary Ellen, if money or remunerations are not the issue are only 5% of mothers extraordinary? You seem to think it is about the 5%
going above and beyond in sheer joy.

I bet if I give a South African janitor something like $500 to be in a video he will do cartwheels for an hour. He is no dumbie.

We can all wear our Sunday best, but average, above average etc it is meaningless nonsense.

I dont want to beat a statistic. I am who I am. My thinking on how my art is made is not to beat a statistic. I am
not joining Mensa next Tuesday for crying out loud. My happiness guage is way up there, but I dont want to dismiss others
who are less fortunate in any regard as "average".

The argument that they could be more if they knew how to unlock their psych is not fair. People have serious problems that this
video would never help with. LC you know if a patient comes to you for advice showing them this video would not create an
ethical billable for you. I hope you know that.

Like I said who ever the camera man was, his hands were unsteady. That actually should matter to artists.

Dave

Most artists think their job is selling art. It’s not, it’s creating art. It’s following your vision to change the world.

Point one, disagree
point two, agree
point three, could go either way, but generally disagree.

The artist's job if he want to keep it is to sell.
The artist's job is to create.
The artists job is not to change the world, but a rare number of artists have done just that.

The rare number is well below 1%. If you throw in the weekend hacker artists the change the world
percentage goes below .001% if not a lot lower.

Dave

I have a lot of respect for Martha Stewart. She is an entire industry. She is hardly in the 5%, she is not in the 1%,
she is her own stat. That no longer makes her a stat, but Martha Stewart.

I see some of the fashion magazine models on E!

They are thin, tall and lanky. They are kids.

Does that make them above average?

After adolescents, if they stay in the biz, their photos get Photoshopped more with each passing year. Like Baseball
players the younger players can be better, but the older names sell. What is the value of a team if the names dont sell?

I wonder if $100 would have a janitor in SA doing cartwheels for an hour of video taping?

I am cynical and happy. Quite the dichotomy.

Dave

PS who said I have been poor and I have been rich? We all know what he preferred.

Dave,
I'm not understanding. I’m comfortable saying only 5% of mothers or any group is extraordinary (even Mensa members); And failing to grasp how the quest for extraordinary (beating the odds) is insulting to anyone else (more fortunate than me or less). What am I misinterpreting?

-- mary ellen anderson

Well pardon me LC if I don't get all giddy and wet my pants.... but I am just not impressed! lol I have been living with a long time member of Mensa for 45 years. It takes a lot to impress me. Most of these super educated, super "above average" can't get out of the house with matching socks. lol

I was not debating you. I was merely disagreeing with the comment of 95% of all people are average. I guess some people need to believe that so they can than claim they are above them.

Smart is meaningless attribute if you don't use it or if you misused it. Using it to think you are better then others (them being only average and all) is not impressive. It is just arrogant.

It does nor surprise me that you fail to see that just the title alone is stereotyping. It basically says even the lowly janitor can enjoy what he is doing. Like what he is doing is below one of the 5% that are above average.

Psychology is a field where no one agrees with much of anything even among themselves. For every 10 people that agree on something, 100 will disagree. It is also on of the profession that creates one of the higher suicide rates. ".... several studies support the idea that psychologists may have an elevated risk for suicidal ideation and behavior compared to general population, the team also found."

How average are these people? So much for all their genius.

Mary Ellen,

There are no real stats for anything.

What was it Twain said, or someone before him, "there are lies, dam lies and statistics."

People on the internet are furnishing the rest of us with rubbish. People are lying on the internet, sorry about
being redundant folks out there,
and dressing it up as all sorts of stuff. It is not the statement close the beginning of the video about
the 5% or 95% that is the problem, it is the context of how some people are rising so far above. I just
dont like this stuff. I really dont. And selling me the elixor in a bottle wont make me any happier with
the snake oil.

This is my bottom line: I can not make one single artistic decision based on that video. Not one. I can
not be a better or a worse artist based on that video. Not at all. I have to make decisions based on the flow
of my art. I have to make decisions on what I would hang on my walls. I have to make decisions about my art
based on what I have trained to do. This does not only mean academic training. I taught myself PS for
two years. That video would not carry me through those two years.

I am not a stat nor am I drinking his elixor. It wont make me happier. If a person is not happy, and most
are not COMPLETELY happy, that is normal. Doing something about that matters.

That is all that video had to say, do something to make yourselves happier. It is a simple message.

Dave

But Dave, doing something to make yourself happier might be a simple message but it's far from easy.

Most people have no idea how to do something to make them happy. They think it's a check list of tasks: I need to be making so much money, I need to have...

My personal experience is that you need to believe in yourself to be happy. That you matter and can make a difference to others. That you don't care about being 'normal' (not completely happy) and won't settle for that. That you have something to prove.

My experience also is that achieving success at being happy will directly make others unhappy. People (the 95%) see you achieving happiness as taking it away from them or cynically deny that's 'real' happiness. Just as artists believe if someone sells a painting it's a sale taken from them. You mentioned that you find your buyers and that's not true, you create them. Just like you do your happiness. That buyers didn't exist till it saw your vision.

You're not betraying anyone by making yourself passionate about your life. You're only cheating yourself by not pouring your passion, intellect, and skills into your work and creating those extraordinary gifts to the world. It's totally PC to make a difference, it just won't make you popular in how people feel about you being able to do it.
-- mary ellen anderson

David That was a joke which is why there is a wink in there. A sense of humor helps make life a little easier some say. I'll refrain from the emote wink. but imagine I'm winking.

I'm really not going to go any further into defending this video, mainly because I don't see any real valid argument, and most people seem to be okay with it. I don't have that kind of time, and It's not my job to defend the authors position, or verify the data. You are welcome to go ahead and look into that, or if that Janitor was paid or not, but I will take it at face value until I have a reason to believe otherwise. He's never "tricked" me before, and I'm not sure why he would start now.

I believe every artist is unique in their own way. Many artist are driven by different factors and each one of them needs to find their own way. What works for you, might not work for another. I have artist that create out of anger, and others that are just savants. I would never give them the same advice as if there was some general truth to being an artist. Being an artist doesn't change the fact that you are human. All we can do is offer our experience, and guide them to to follow their passion. Selling art is the result of their passion usually not the goal.

David that video is not intended for everyone. Clearly he is targeting his audience which is people that wish to go above and beyond. I might show that to someone with a handicap because I myself have a handicap and I am not offended by it in any way, and I am pretty sure Steven Hawking would not have an issue with it either. He might have an issue with you thinking he couldn't handle though. ;)

@David that is not even close to the message in that video. That video is clearly about hard work and dedication leading to mastering your profession. Going the extra mile when others give up.

Clearly I touched a nerve Floyd if you are on the defense, and your only argument is personal attacks. I'm not going to push you any further on that subject. Just understand that attacking me doesn't help any of your argument one bit. Trying to discredit science, and attacking the entire profession of psychology, and putting down the dedicated men and women that give their lives to helping others is also not working in your favor. Man that takes some serious dedication there Floyd. Is there anyone else you would like to put down so you can prove your point? First us artist aren't smart enough to sell our own work, and now doctors that dedicate their lives to helping others are all suicidal quacks. Wow! Who is it that you were trying to stand up for here because whomever it was I am not sure they want your help. I thought David was bad with insulting the handicapped by assuming we all need to be protected from the big scary world , and then again with assumption that African Janitors must take money to lie on camera because they couldn't possibly be hard worker, but your holding your own. This is terrible on so many levels that I think we need to just close this thread before it gets any worse.

"This is terrible on so many levels that I think we need to just close this thread before it gets any worse."

Agree, the thread needs to be closed, but I can't see how it can get any worse. You have already insulted every one by defending the 95% garbage. Well everyone accept those that believe they are in that 5%. lol

No one got personal until you tried to impress us with all that " If you want the higher moral ground your going to have to earn it. You'll actually need to use intelligence to debate me." That reeks of the same arrogance that was in that video and was part of whey I could not get past the first few minutes.

I fail to see any moral higher ground in putting janitors down implying that the work they do is beneath those that have assigned themselves to the ranks or the 5%. But then again if you believe in the 95% crap, that pretty much means you think that all of us are beneath you.

There was no argument until you attached the people for saying they didn't agree what that 95% bs. You are the one that gave up the moral high ground when you posted that video to begin with. And then when you insinuated the rest of us had no right to disagree with "you" because you are some sort of master debater and higher level of intellect. Please!!!

There is a huge difference between being smarter then other people and thinking you are superior to other people.

As far as "attacking the entire profession of psychology", that quote I posted came from a study of the profession conducted by and published by members of the profession through one of their own organizations and published in one of their journals Doh!

Anyone that has every had to taken a Psyc class has heard the opinion that the profession is full of people that entered simply because they were trying to figure out what is wrong with themselves.

Go look at the OP. Maybe some people take cheap shots at some artist because they deserve it.

I thought David was bad with insulting the handicapped by assuming we all need to be protected from the big scary world , and then again with assumption that African Janitors must take money to lie on camera because they couldn't possibly be hard worker, but your holding your own.

LC,

Your thinking is very sloppy. I never said those things. I never said the handicapped needed protection. I never discussed all South African Janitors.

Only you are saying those things by centering on them as the issues in this. Dont attribute them to me.

Dave

@David that is not even close to the message in that video. That video is clearly about hard work and dedication leading to mastering your profession. Going the extra mile when others give up.

Not one single artistic decision can be made because "others give up". That has nothing to do with making great art.

The video is at best superfluous.

The video neither adds nor subtracts from anyone's art. If you did not know making and selling art involves was hard work, then you will get a rude shock.

The video can not really make anyone any happier either.

I dont expect constant happiness. Just does not exist. As some have wisely written it is a pursuit, meaning it is not a promise or a constant.

I expect ups and downs in life. Am I wrong? The people with the most success however that is defined still have those personal ups
and downs. They are not doing a life time of cartwheels.

I think we need to focus on other matters now.

Dave

Why shouldn't non-artists take cheap shots at artists...from scanning this thread, it looks like we arerather good at doing it to ourselves.

Well actually Floyd it was me that reposted the video here. Had no idea it would cause controversy. It's a new thought to me that doing your best to be extraordinary is the same as believing you're better humans than other people. If that's what your saying. I guess that's technically true; you get a A on your paper and someone gets a B, ones better than the other.
But we need A papers, and that's not unfair to the guy that got a B; he is not going to have produced an A paper even if no one had.

Now I don't think there is a more self-delusional ego than an artist's. We have a terrible time differentiating between world visions and self-indulgent dreams and vanity. This is certainly an issue in our field and artists are going to have to prove by public acceptance which they are. And I guess that's why I mentioned this in the 'cheap shots' thread.

Criticism is our opportunity to see if we're visionary or self-delusional. You take criticism seriously and consider fairly if they have even a glimmer of merits. If it doesn't have merit you don't ignore it, you address it (like defending a thesis - with logic and proofs, not rage and insult). If it has merits (it really is B work) you fix it in yourself.

The points I would make is we're all going to be criticized but there is NEVER a superiority entitlement for your efforts (doesn't matter how many home runs you've hit in the past). There's never a "their opinion doesn't count" group (you're responsible for all the judges scores, Even the totally wrong ones.). There's not a 'how rude' excuse, or a handicap excuse (sorry if that un-PC).

This thread started with people giving advice on how to get even with people that judge you harshly, and IMHO this is a road to self-delusion and pain. You're throwing away your chance to get it right and feel good about yourself with the public. But if you can get there I'm fine with calling you extraordinary even if it bites that you can do it and I can't.
-- mary ellen anderson

I'm a lot of things David, but sloppy would be at the bottom of the list. I am overly thorough if anything.

I do not like drawing attention to this again because I assume it was an oversight, or laps in judgement when you said it, but the fact is you did say these things:

"I bet if I give a South African janitor something like $500 to be in a video he will do cartwheels for an hour. He is no dumbie."

Then again:

"I wonder if $100 would have a janitor in SA doing cartwheels for an hour of video taping? "

"The argument that they could be more if they knew how to unlock their psych is not fair. People have serious problems that this
video would never help with. LC you know if a patient comes to you for advice showing them this video would not create an
ethical billable for you. I hope you know that."

As I said Steven Hawking does just fine, as do many other with handicaps both mental and physical. Your assumption that the handicapped can't be helped by a motivational course like anyone else is insulting. You also make the assumption that I charge to help people which is also not true. I do not charge to help people. I volunteer my time for free. It is my cause, not my job.

You still have no idea what that video is about or the whole series for that matter so you should probably stop saying things about happiness because that is not what it is about. It might help your argument to ignore the real message but anyone that watched knows it's about working hard, and going the extra mile and not giving up. Something that is not foreign to handicapped people. In fact it is often one their biggest strengths

@Floyd nice spin but fact destroy people like you and your arguments. I just posted a inspirational video that we use for patients and you literally made it out to be bad thing. Fact is my motives were nothing but positive, what other motive could I have had to post an inspirational video series? Most everyone likes the video series including patients and their families. They guy has a bunch of best sellers for a reason. It didn't get negative until you tried to turn a positive action of mine negative with your worlds and opinions. I dare you to try and dispute those facts. Justifiable reason will only help you feel better about yourself. It can't take back your actions, or change facts. So nice try buddy. Try spending your time on something more positive like figuring out why you have such an issue with other peoples success. That is screaming to be address with your behavior patterns. I am by no means perfect or by far the smartest person I know so this is not about being dominant or winning for me. It's about trying to post something that might help people which you have clearly ruined, and tainted with your negativity, so congratulations you win I guess?

I'm done, and I'll refrain from posting anything motivational, or inspirational in future to avoid these situations.

Unfollowed.

No that is not what I am saying. I am saying that the guy in video is no better then a thousand other self-help, snake oils sales people out there. And the idea that he or he and/or any number of his cronies can start determining for all of us who is average and who is not, offends my sensibilities.

"You'll actually need to use intelligence to debate me. I am a master debater, and yes I did just say that. ;) "

I did not get into personal insults and don't care how many little winkies he puts behind that statement. That is a personal attack.

That was the response I got when I merely disagreed with the 95% theory. Then later he attacks Dave.

I have no trouble being attacked, but as you probably know, I also have no problem retaliating.

I tried to get through the video again. I am sorry, but that is a guy that likes the sound of his own voice. 7 minute in and he has not said one worthwhile thing. Nothing. How many times does he mention the vines, the vines. Who gives a ratz about the vines! lmao

"@Floyd nice spin but fact destroy people like you and your arguments. I just posted a inspirational video that we use for patients and you literally made it out to be bad thing. '

What fact? This is not based on fact. It is entirely based on opinion. Flawed opinion for what little I have seen.

NO, I did not make it out to be a bad thing. I have said very little about the video. If you would read what I wrote you would know that!

You are so busy admiring you own words that you have not see where I have said at least three time now that I have not even watched the video. I have no opinion on the video. It is so poorly done I can't watch it.

I am making out the idea that you, that self appointed guru or what ever he is, and no number of like minded people have a right to suggest that they can determine who is average and who is not that that the 95/5% i percentage concept is demeaning. And I mentioned that the title itself reeked of stereotyping, imho.

Beyond that I have not made any comments on the video itself.

You are the one that came back all high and mighty like I was not intellectually capable of debating with you. I don't think anyone can debate with you. You don't listen and you are totally consumed with your own self admiration.

I suggest you try a mirror.