Self-promotion. Can We Ever Do Enough And Is What You're Doing Working.

hard to say what is working. it's a build up, like planting a garden. place the seeds, add the manure, water and you get plants. and its the same here in the same order. a little here and there and sales. but mostly the work should speak for itself, so the people who like the work, advertise it for you.

ignore the views. many people with MANY views are clearly using bots to drive the traffic up. i remember one guy got 24 million hits a day. there is another that has thousands on each image and all are snap shots. that one is clearly a bot too. it's taken a while for me to get it as high as mine is. don't compare yourself to others even without the bots because it really depends on what they are selling. like if it's all nudes - the views will be higher.

it's also not about sending things to a social place and your done. you have to build up people in each of those places. i couldn't find you on twitter, while there are people that look, their bots generate 30 hits each time they visit. concentrate on who your target audience is and pander to them.

---Mike Savad

Mike, what is Twitter? That keeps coming up, but I have no idea what it does! I envision my cell phone chirping all day long.

really, no sarcasm?

https://twitter.com/
https://twitter.com/MikeSavad

twitter is a place you can send posts too and hopefully fish a customer out. #hashtags are keywords, your limited to a set amount of characters per line.


---Mike Savad

I hear what you are saying Brooks, I look at the graphs and see a couple images that are on there all the time, one I am beginning to dislike, 200,000 views? Really? For one image that I don't even care for and does nothing for me. I keep going because it brings peace and harmony to my soul, it is my zen time, just me and the natural world. Someday when I return to earth people will look at my images and love them more than when I was here. I promote and share a lot and wish FAA could do more to boost my spirits when I have a good image and it jut does not get the views, but in the end the image makes me happy I was there to capture it and the sales would be nice but the rewards I get from doing what I do are priceless to me. I will stay here for two more years and if the results don't come I will go someplace where my work will be seen and appreciated more. I get more views from three other sites without promoting and those make me want to continue.

Hi, Mike! Appreciate your advice. I do know all about gardening, one of my passions! It's true, I have been reticent to join the twitter bandwagon. I do know it would be helpful, though, and actually have several 'friends' who promote me on theirs, which is pretty cool. You're right, comparing one's numbers to other's doesn't help a thing...and actually does the opposite. I don't think the idea of posting those stats on member's profiles was a great idea. What's the point?

I have NO trouble selling my original works of art in galleries & such, and, foolishly, thought that my luck & hard work would translate to the same on FAA. But, sluggish print sale$ & lack of visitors, with all I've done, seems to have gotten me a bit 'dazed & confused'. Nevertheless, I continue on my quest. I'm nothing, if not determined!

Patricia, I have left the 'twittering & chirping' up to others, thus far, but, as Mike says, it's a really helpful tool in garnering needed attention, so we may have to get on board!? Good to hear from you.

Brooks, don't beat yourself up about promotion.
I don't even know what Mike means when he mentioned bots in his comment.
I got a long way to go.

No, I am not being sarcastic. For some reason, I'm leery of signing up for Twitter. I know nothing whatsoever about it. There comes a point to where I push myself away from technology. But I keep hearing about twitter. I took some convincing to even join FaceBook. Thanks for the links!

Yes, Brooks, maybe we'll see each other on twitter... however that works, lol :)

twitter is easier than the rest. google wants your real name, face, etc, they are picky about everything. facebook you have to earn trust before they are a friend and then your post is lost in a sea of cats. twitter, people use a search to find things they are into. people of NY might want NY images. or are homesick and might look it up. bots pick up on tags and spread your links to every corner of the globe.

twitter was a kids game for a long time, then it became a tool for rescue, and adults took over.

facebook was a kids game, then adults wanted to see what their kids were doing, and they became addicted. the kids left to some other place, and the adults amuse themselves with selfies, cats and recipes.


---Mike Savad

Lol, Mike, I am laughing right now. I scroll through so many cat posts on FaceBook that it's scary! Most of which is my doing. And you're right about the young-uns. My son actually UN-friended me from FaceBook. He's a good young man, but he doesn't want his mom poking into this business. Can't blame him.

Okay, I presume your Twitter images link back to FAA automatically, right? There would be no point otherwise.

i never post images to twitter directly, only links. while many think its a good idea posting the images, and every now and then i think is ok, i don't do it. it becomes a gallery, and one there they have no reason to look at it. if i can make the hashtag interesting enough to click, they may like the image and look at others.

---Mike Savad

Thanks for the twitter 101 do's & don'ts, Mike. We 'dummies' appreciate it, speaking strictly for myself, btw! Lol. At least I now know more than I did just a couple of hours ago...which is progress! Thanks, Patricia, for asking the questions!

Duane, good to hear from you! Thanks for your comments...and empathy. I was thinking the same thing the other day re my work being more valuable after I'm gone, but am sure wishin' & hopin' that's not the case!? I have also given myself a goal & time limit here....and feel good about what I've done & accomplished, even though it hasn't brought me the results I hoped for, thus far. Still have a LONG way to go.

Hi Darryl! Appreciate your reply & support. I, too, had to ask what bots were. There was actually a discussion on the topic not too long ago. But, you can always 'ask Mike'...or Google it. Perhaps, Mike, you should have an on-going post titled 'Ask Mike'...for all those seeking advice, requesting a critique, wanting background info, looking for the latest internet tools and so on! Just a thought.

I'll be following this discussion.

Welcome, Nancy, and good to be 'followed'...by you! Let me know what you think?

I don't put much stock in metrics. But I think that you can reach a point where, despite lots of views, it becomes obvious that your stuff (not yours personally, Brooks) simply isn't what people want to hang on their walls.

I like twitter cuz it's fast, loads quickly, you can look at an image if you like the link or hashtags, or NOT. You can see five or so tweets atta time on mobile and everything Mike said bowt the other sites tho I, too, populate them with kitties! too lol twitter.com/iamthebetty Regarding views. I count mine monthly, record them, then reset them. I know, I just do.

Agree with you, Murray. One can only do SO much! Thanks for making that exception re my work & what people may or may not want to hang on their walls, btw. At this juncture in life, I'm confident re my skills & offerings; I just need to find the right mix that will help me garner those desired views/sales! If I only knew the 'secret'? Maybe, for me, the 'missing link' is twitter.

Have 'heard it through the grapevine' that some are going on to 'better' things, if not bigger...and not spending as much time here, unfortunately. If they make a sale, good; if not, good. They're keeping their site[s], but adding others as well.

I had stripped down to the basics, as far as putting all my eggs into one 'art' basket [FAA], except for one site I use to print a couple of my poetry books. Call me 'crazy', but I thought all my hard work & dedication would pay off by now. Back to the 'drawing board' to re-desing my strategy.

Hi Betty! Thanks for your input & comments re twitter, etc. Like to learn all I can. Appreciate your reply.

I'm not so sure that participating in the FAA message forums or contests is really going to bring in sales. Some one correct me if I am wrong but FAA forums and contests are just full of other people trying to sell their work also. Again, I could be wrong it just seems like a waste of time as far as generating an income goes. Would be totally open to those that say otherwise from experience though....

It's not so much that participating in the discussion forum translates into a sale, Kevin, but, being that it [and our blogs] are also seen by the viewing public, that could mean MORE viewers/visitors getting to our sites and, of course, potential buyers/sales! Plus, other members who 'see' you via the discussions, and the viewing public, too, can be of help as far as getting the word out or even sharing your gallery/website. It's just one of the myriad ways to promote your art/photography...and every little bit helps.

As far as hosting or entering FAA contests & garnering sales, I know for a fact some have done just. I believe Mike S. might be one of those saying so. There, again, the public is privy to viewing those entries and, sometimes, allowed to vote, as well, so that, again, means more views/visitors...and possible sales?

So, those two things you mention, participation in the the community discussions & entering contests, are just part of the bigger picture.

Have a good night, Kevin...and thanks for your comments.

This piece of mine sold recently...yay! It's 'twin' can be seen on page one of my gallery [with title & added border]. That version of 'Noteworthy' has placed in many a contest, had lots more views, but sold only once, so far. As you can see, when you click on the link/image below, I have included a detailed description, added the necessary keywords, garnered several group features, etc. Though, not as popular 'on paper' as it's counterpart, I'm delighted to have made a sale to the buyer from New Zealand. Just goes to show how much I don't know about 'why' or what makes a sale happen...besides presenting a colorful creative work of art!?

Brooks, congratulations!! I can see why this sold. Such a beautiful montage of singers and instruments. Well done!!

Not sure how you are doing with Twitter, Brooks, but I've joined. Betty, you mentioned that Twitter makes it easy to view images. Not sure why I'd need to view more images than I already view here, on FaceBook and elsewhere. I guess I just don't get it, but perhaps it will become clear the more I get into it.

Mike, since you gave your Twitter account in a post here, I clicked on it and am "following" you. Not sure what happens next, but I guess I'll find out. Good luck, Brooks!

I personally say the way to go is every way possible. I just spoke with some fans, new and old, on various social media, I started adding them to an email list, added FineArtInternational and FineArtEngland because one of my fans is in England and another in Italy; and finally, added more artwork and a promotion for my latest artwork. I believe it will work out!

Patricia, many 'thanks' for your congratulations & most kind words re ' Noteworthy'! Appreciate it very much. Sweet.

No, haven't created the twitter account, yet, but SO proud of you for doing it...and so quickly! Mike was/is a great help in showing some of us 'the way'. Maybe, you will be able to lead me through it when I get there...if/when I do. I can't imagine adding yet another promotional tool to my box, but I know at some point, I must.

I'm sure Mike will appreciate his new 'follower', btw. Thanks, for the 'good luck'! I need it! Have a lovely Sunday & week ahead, Patricia.

I finally got my twitter and pinterest accounts. I found that the traffic to my site tripled. Getting everything in place is overwhelming. Once you have a momentum going it does get more manageable

Erin, thanks for your comments! I, too, am a 'believer', always open to 'make IT happen', as far as my work, which you can tell by my above comments & post. Twitter may be the 'missing link' for me, it's beginning to sound like? Appreciate your input...and enthusiasm. Always a plus!

In answer to the questions; no we can never do enough and no, most of what I have tried is not working. Zazzle.com is the only place where I make any sales. And it's free! FAA contests and groups are self defeating in my opinion. What is the use of trying to market images to other photographers that are also trying to sell their stuff? Yes, I like to make new friends and contacts but there has to be a happy medium. A few sales would be nice.

Take a look at the stats on my 500px site: All those followers and views are from other photographers who will never buy an image from me. I made only $2 there on a digital download in well over a year. That is the main problem I continue to have; how to market to the general public and not just other photographers.

https://500px.com/tedraynor

I have also tried Twitter, Facebook, Redbubble, Cafepress, Photoshelter, WANELO, Stumbleupon, Flickr, and Pinterest. I am still on some of those sites but deleted most of my accounts.

Best of luck. I will keep trying but I am running out of ideas!

I generally don't rely on online marketing for any of my business, but I honestly think that posting my artwork for sale on my social pages has actually hurt more than it helped.. I tend to think people are on social sites to be social so I think it makes sense to focus on being socially active rather than a salesman. I believe that showing your works in progress, your process, your tools, or more about your personal life is a way more effective sales tool than just a bunch of direct links to new artwork. I think the email list is a better place for that tactic.

Ted, on 500px you must bet to sell licenses. I sold two licenses the past month for $500. They also have a twitter profile where publish special requests of their customers (500pxPhotoDesk).

Here on FAA is more difficoult to me.

And sorry for the english.

Before I get to responding to the newest replies above, let me mention that our FAA friend Connie Fox is dealing with an illness and needs our support, thoughts & prayers. Please click on her discussion thread post to add your helpful & encouraging words!

I hear ya, Ted! Thanks for your comments. I feel your pain. However, you might be 'happy' to know that being active in the groups actually does help with sales & visitors! Just ask Bob & Nadine Johnston, administrators of something like 19 FAA groups, who are crazy about promotion: self, group & social! I believe they have a couple of discussion threads on the subject hovering somewhere around the first couple of pages.

Also, re contests, they, too, help some garner sales, yes. Read several of the comments re the subject before yours, like Mike Savad's...and check out my blog on the subject, too, if you'd like: http://fineartamerica.com/blogs/faa-conteststhe-good-the-bad-the-ugly.html

L C makes a good point re plugging our work on social sites. I have seen it backfire, as well, and only post links to my FAA images once a week now. I am happy to have friends who will share my work, too, a link to a new upload, for example. Sure, I get a lot of 'love' out of it, but not much more. Still, every little bit helps. I don't get nearly the response you would think, though, compared to other things I post, like personal family photos, etc. Plus, I'm not sure how many people actually get to see our posts these days with all the changes fb has implemented. I get more response from my Pinterest boards! Lol, sadly. A lot of work goes into gathering fb 'followers'!

So, we will continue to dialogue, learn more about what others have done, are doing, and what is working for them or not, search for new ways of selling & promoting our work...and fine-tuning those that have proven successful, so far. Thanks for your input, Andrea! Good to hear from you. Have a good day, everyone. I will check back in later on this evening.

Thank you Andrea! I checked my licensing on 500px and aside from the standard license, I don't know what changes to make. Can you send me a link to the license you mention?

Hi and thanks for the input Brooks. I will check out your blog. I joined a few groups here but they just seemed dead. Maybe I don't know how to pick them :P

You can read this Ted :) https://support.500px.com/customer/portal/topics/614801-500px-prime/articles

Thanks again Andrea! I came back here to get your name and find you on 500px. See you there!

I did already submit all my images to Prime. Nothing has come of it yet.

Ted, I'm coming by to pay a visit to your gallery! Glad you & Andrea connected. Check out groups that have 'high activity' to help narrow your search. I only belong to about 20 total, but some people are members of over 20-pages-worth! I don't know how they participate in ALL those, but to each their own. Here is a link to the couple I mentioned above who host a host of groups on FAA: http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2127947

Well, I don’t do any self-promotion but I sell on a regular base and this is my full time job. I make art daily and post them Facebook and flickr; I write on wordpress about once a week. My works are constantly being share and comment on those sites; sometime as soon as I post my new works it would be sold. For me, the best promotion is to let others do it for you, most buyers like the discovery of an artists’ works and no better than had someone else to introduce your works to them.
Almost all my sales are from face to face, usually clients would introduce my works to their friends. My advice is, do what you like to do and keep doing it and not to worry too much about when or who will buy it. It might take months or years but will happen when you least expected.

Good to hear from you, Alfred! Thanks for your comments. I'm also a full-time artist...paintings, photography & more. Everyday I create & promote, using the tools at our disposal, even a blog! We/you are blessed to have folks willing to share our work with others, however that may be...friends, family, groups, galleries, other sites & so on...if there is a 'so on'! Lol. I'm sure most other members can also agree, even if it is only family or friends helping out. Like I said, every little bit helps...and time's a tickin', a little faster than some of us would like! I'm all about 'flow', as in not worrying too much & staying on the path of least resistance. And, yes, of course, keeping the faith that all our hard work, both hands-on & on-line, will pay off...at some point. Have a good night.

Brooks,

Taking a step beyond self promotion, do you know if FAA has a way for someone to promote other artist's work and make a commission? Zazzle.com does this with their Associate's program. It allows you to embed a code, promote the products, and if anyone follows their links they get 15%. I think it would be great for those who have the connections and the know how to make some money off images that the artist who created them may not be able to market effectively.

I did a few searches but did not find any mention of this in the forums.

Thank you for visiting my site!

I think, FAA used to have a affiliate program, but closed it before I joined.

Ted, I think an affiliate program would be great for the artist and FAA. I just started with Society6, they have an associate program also (10%). They let you see how many are promoting your work, more than half of my images are being promoted, it's encouraging to see others identifying with your work and someone else promoting your work!

Ted, you bring up a great point & idea! See what Colin & Suzanne say just above. And, you might want to mention it to those more-in-the-know than I? Maybe, someone will read this & be able to better answer your question[s]. Right now, other than sharing members' work via our own social media sites or our 'favorites' here on FAA, and, of course group support & contests, I don't know of anything that fits. I could be wrong. Would be great, though, if we had that option. SO many talented artists/photographers on FAA...and beyond!

My pleasure to visit your wonderful galleries, btw. This one really' wowed' me, as you know. I'll be back to see more!
http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/1-ted-raynor.html?tab=artworkgalleries&artworkgalleryid=366215

Here's a sneak preview for anyone interested!

I'd gladly pay for the affiliate/promotion program out of my profits - how about you?

Paying someone 5%-10% of my profit on a new sale is better than making no sale. S6 claims that some curators as they are called make up to $6K a month.

Yes, that's how I feel Edward. It's free and if your art fits the market (I'm seeing a narrow market, it's a young more educated clientele, a lot like Crate.com) it will probably be advantageous for you. I'm seeing it as a challenge. I may need to take some of my more traditional or even abstract art out of the mix as well as do some designing for that market (most of the art is natural/nature pallet, olive green, creams, burgundy, gold, vintage photography tints, simplified vector art, etc.).

The free marketing by others is motivating for me right now to try to come up with designs they will like, it shouldn't be that difficult, it's a narrow field.

The potential for multiplication of marketing by members is almost mind boggling when you think about it. Every one feeling motivated to market their own and other member's art works could be a really good thing, I agree it would be neat to do it here also.

Suzanne & Edward are on board with the affiliate/marketing idea, Ted! Thanks to both for their comments, btw. Hope to hear from some more members on this. Meanwhile, here's a link to another discussion re FAA you might find interesting: http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2137619

..

Yes Edward, I would gladly pay a cut to anyone who could help me achieve my dream of doing photography full time. Wow the things I could do........Hey Getty Images hint hint.

Suzanne I am going to check out Society6. I have never heard of it. Thanks to you both for you input!

Brooks, you are making me blush ;) Thank you so much for your kind words and support! I will have you in mind the next time the aurora is dancing in the sky.

Hi Brooks---thanks for the discussion---just checking in to let you know I am here. There is nothing more that I can say---for sure. I will add that I try to keep a balance-- to keep the 'joy' of what I do---and I could not have worked harder the first two years after I joined. Someone above said be patient and keep doing what you love---and Mike said it is like a garden. I like these thoughts.

Also---maybe I do have something to say---I remember telling the kids to be true to their own selves---and that if they do what they love---they will have success. Then you have to determine---what is success---and for me---it is what makes my heart sing. I don't want to lose that.

Thank you for being so open and honest.

See you later!

Hi Nava! Great to hear from you. Thanks so much for 'checking in'...and for the gentle reminders! It's true, refining 'what success means to me' is on-going, as well as, 'doing what makes my heart sing'. I love that last one. And, like you always say, 'keep the joy alive'! Was thinking about those things just last night, and about you today...and here you are! Appreciate your visit & comments, my friend. Hope you're having a wonderful night in Bentonville.


Ted, you SHOULD be doing your photography full-time! All the best in that regard. Glad you found some helpful hints here...and, hopefully, a Getty associate with a good eye for talent! Lol. 'Blush' is the title of that beautiful aurora photo of yours I posted above, I see. If I can make you 'blush' like that, that's a good thing! Lol. Seriously, you are SO lucky to live in a place with myriad possibilities of capturing such shots, nature at her best. How exciting is that...and amazing!

Cheers to you Brooks!

Thanks so much, Ted! Here's a link to my newest discussion post, which I know you will find refreshing! Hope to see you there!
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2140752

Ted, one of the reasons as I mentioned and getting more of an idea as I upload there, no one mentions Society6 much because of the limitation of styles you see that are selling (younger audience). I get the feeling most artists don't want to try to change their style to sell there, it's understandable. Today I deleted some images of mine because I feel they don't fit in.

From what I have observed most of the artists here on Zazzle are not at Society6, it seems to reach a wider audience and most probably feel more comfortable at Zazzle.

I had not heard of Society6 so I just went to check it out. Looks clean and fresh--but, good GRIEF, is it necessary for all "cool" sites to use profanity so freely these days? F-word right on the front page of the seller's guide, in one of the featured artworks. I think this was also brought up in the Ello thread here, where they use WTF on one of the front pages. I guess I am hopelessly old-fashioned to be offended, but I can't stand it. Sorry to digress. I really do want to consider new venues, so I suppose I will have to get over it.