New Camera Or Glass??? Adding- Are My Photos Sell Worthy???

Don't know what glass you have now, and most would probably advise lens, but if you're looking for better image quality, go for the the full frame body, it's night and day compared to the croppers W

Thanks for the reply Wingsdomain.

Sorry I'm just using the kit lenses, 18-55 and 75-300. I think it will be never ending with me wanting my images to get better. :)

At the beginning of last year, I only had kit lenses and wanted to give primes a try since I had heard that they can be so much better. So, I bought a used prime, took one photo, and was blown away by the difference. Since then, I have been purchasing more prime lenses (all used to make the dollars go further) and could not be happier. I was given a very nice camera as a gift recently, which bumped image quality up a lot too. Based on this experience, it might be best to start with better glass and go from there.

Better glass all the way. T3i is a perfectly capable camera, better in some aspects than Canon 5D which was considered the be-all, end-all a few years ago. T3i has all the features most people need, so it doesn't even come to the feature set. And a full kit weighs and is less bulky than a full frame with only one or two lenses.

Full frame used to be a requirement for some photography a few years ago, but with better sensor tech and lenses the advantages in image quality are slim to none, depending on the type of image and print size. Many pros use Micro Four Thirds cameras, which has an even smaller sensor.

Full frame has also some distinct disadvanages, namely with shallower depth of field which can be a hindrance in landscape photography or macros. Of course it can also be an advantage, when shooting shallow DOF portraits, for example.

A good lens will last you much longer than any camera, and you will be able to use (most of) them in full frame cameras if you ever decide to get one.

you'll get more use out of a full frame camera then getting more glass. the detail level for one, will be better than non full. good glass is a good idea, but it only goes so far. primes are a good way to go provided you don't mind the fixed distance they have, or changing them out - that part always bugged me that's why i have one single lens i use for everything. it's not comparable to a prime in sharpness, but it does a pretty good job. it really depends on what your shooting. i shoot with a tamron 28-300vc lens. with it and a full frame i can read the labels on bottle or see the thread count from across the room. a prime would be even better.

for me i need clean iso, because i shoot a lot of low light. full frame helps with that. of course though you lose the extra reach on your zooms, and the depth of field still drives me crazy.

---Mike Savad

Looks like the real answer is "both" - Each has it's pro's and con's - I would probably go with the glass - and see if I could find a deal on a full frame.

Thanks Adele, Harry, Mike and Roy for Your input.

Sounds like I have a tough choice to make. I actually was looking into the 6 or 5d cameras. I don't know if I like the idea of fixed lenses either. Does anyone use the Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS and is it really better than the 75-300?

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS has very good images but the more I look at images from the 6D. I can't help but think it produces sharper images all around?

I shoot with a 3ti and love love love it! I do a lot of low light shooting and I have no issues with it.. however I do not shoot with kit lenses either I.e. Canon EF 135MM 2.0, Canon EF 85mm 1.8... to name a few..

Glass. You can always upgrade the camera in the future and use the glass. When shopping for a prime, look through your favorite shots and see what focal length fits your style. For me a 35mm on a full frame is my go to focal length. On a crop sensor camera its more like a "normal lens" like the old reliable 50mms on film cameras. The 85 1.8 is excellent also.

If you are not currently using a tripod, that might help even more then both.

Thank you Edward and Stephen for your input.

I agree with you Stephen I think the t3i is a great camera. I guess I'm getting impatient with no sales and trying to figure out what I need to do.

That is a good idea Edward for the focal length. Wouldn't that change constantly though, depending on the environment? Yes I use a tripod whenever I can.

New gear is NOT the answer to getting sales.

With that said,
I would normally say to get glass first, however, looking at YOUR photographs, you seem to do a fair share of night photography, so a full frame would be beneficial. HOWEVER, there is not a lot of point getting a full frame camera and using a crappy kit lens from the T3I on it. So either get a new body, and new glass at the same time, or get new glass first. If you are only able to do one for now, then glass first.

I managed to get great images from a Rebel XT during the night, drop your ISO and learn how to improve your post processing workflow to massaging out any noise.

Stop looking at cheap lenses like the 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 and get some real glass if you want a difference in image quality.

"Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS has very good images but the more I look at images from the 6D. I can't help but think it produces sharper images all around?"

That's because no professional photographer worth their salt is going to suggest that lens on a full frame camera. Chances are, the 6D images you have been looking at are probably shot with real glass.

So, in summary, if you can only do one then go glass first. You are here so I am assuming you are wanting the option of printing large pieces to sell. That's when you are going to start noticing quality differences in lenses the most. All the best on your search, and welcome to the addiction.

Kevin,

Watch the language, there are children here.

6. The forum is rated U - Suitable for all. Pornographic, generally offensive text, images, links, and swearing are not allowed. Nor is any talk of a sexual nature. Users may not post images that require a safe filter to the open forum. Your membership could be be suspended or removed

For "sh@7y"? Wow, good to know thanks. I've removed it.

Thanks Kevin for your input.

The EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS lens I mentioned I was thinking of it for the t3i. I don't have too many night shots really, I just got into night shooting. What glass would you or others recommend for the t3i for landscape shots? And also a good telephoto lens?

What you need to do is to go in to lightroom if you have it, and see what focal lengths you shoot at the most and narrow down your selection from there. A lot of people will automatically think wide angle for landscapes, but I know I shoot long quite often also.

The answer really depends on what you want to do moving forward. Are you planning on going full frame eventually? This would impact ones decision on a direction to go for glass. If you plan on staying on a crop body, then for a wide I would recommend a Canon 10-22 for UWA. You can get them used for a reasonable cost.

A couple things in mind. You keep mentioning cheap lenses so i'll recommend the following at a lower cost of entry, but will be more than the 55-250. It seems you are trying to cover an entire focal length range with as few zooms as possible? You are better off having a few small gaps with higher quality glass.

If going full frame eventually, then a used 17-40 is fantastic on a crop, and will be an UWA once you get the FF. 17 is still wide on a crop, but if you can't live without being able to go wider then the 10-22 could be a great temporary solution. You can sell the kit lens and apply that towards one (17-40). It's not as wide but makes a good half mid range on a crop. There are a lot of options right now in that range but the newer offerings are not as available used. 50mm 1.8 ($120) then a 70-200 f4 used ($450-$550). The 55-250 is another low end cheap low quality lens. For another $100 a used 70-200 non is F4 will kill it. When you make the jump to FF then this combo will continue to serve you well for a very long time.

You are shooting landscapes, so I would hope you are using a tripod. IS is not necessary. You would do way better moving up in the world of glass, buying used non IS lenses at a much higher quality for only a small amount more that will serve you in to the move to FF.

Thanks again Kevin for taking time to answer my question.

How about this lens?

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-70-200mm-Telephoto-Zoom-Cameras/dp/B000053HH5/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1404664985&sr=1-1&keywords=Canon+EF+70-200mm+f%2F4.0L+USM

And yes I use a tripod whenever I can. I mostly take landscape/nature/macro pics.

The 70-200 f4 is an amazing lens. Sharp sharp sharp. I would highly recommend it. There is one con with it, and that is lens flare when shooting direct in to sun, but no worse than other lenses at that length. The 70-200 lenses are well known for being top notch lenses. The 70-200 f4L was my first "L" lens, and the difference in quality was noticeable immediately. I'm still shooting with it.

Good to know Kevin. Now I'm finding that I would have to get two lenses at least. One wide and one with more range, but then it can get pricey again.

Generally, the larger zoom a lens covers, the lower the quality will be especially for the lenses you will find in the few hundred dollar range. What I had, and it served me well for a very long time was I had the 17-40, the 50 1.8 and 70-200. I had the 10-22 also, but sold it after I went full frame. Honestly, I should have kept it for my 7d for video. Knowing I would move to FF eventually, I was using the 17-40 as a general purpose lens and used the 10-22 to cover the UWA knowing that I would sell it and apply that to my new FF purchase.

I have a tough decision to make, lol.. I appreciate you taking time to answer my questions. Sounds like the 17-40L and the 70-200L might be a good way to go?

Totally. You can even fit a 50 1.8 in to cover the gap given they are only $120.

Thanks Kevin.

If I may what do you think about my images now are they sell worthy?

Save your money.

A good photographer could take good pics with a box brownie

After Canon where do you go?

Nikon Lens are not that much better

Or does glass mean something other than Lens in America?

flics,
Selling photographs thru the internet is a really tough way to earn money. You are up against tens of thousands of really really good photographers worldwide. There literally are millions of photographs being offered on the internet.

My advice to you (and all other fine art artists) is don't quit your dayjob. Most fine art photographers do NOT earn their living selling their art on the internet.

And look at all the wonderful artists on Fine Art America. Does your work compare to their work? You be the judge.

Thanks for your input Geordie and Robert,

I agree a good photographer can take good photos with basically anything but having a better lens will only make your work improve.

I know there are tons of photographers out there that have much better photos than I do. I also see stuff selling that I can't figure out why it is selling. Photography has been a passion of mine for a long time now and if I can earn a few dollars along the way. Even better right?

Some of my best selling photos were taken with a 10D (6mp) and xsi (12mp). Not the greatest cameras, but if had some decent glass. I would go with better lenses first. To full utilize full frame you will ideally need L lenses. FWI worth, I've gone over to micr 4/3 and not looked back.

Thanks for this post...answers were very informative and would definitely hep my own questions similar to Calazones. Thumbs up!

Get the glass without a doubt. The best cameras go down in value, no matter how much you paid for them. Good glass goes up in price. The T3i will take wonderful pictures with great glass. I still sell things I shot with a 3 meg camera.

Looks like you've got tons of sound advice so far, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. Go with a lens upgrade.

It's the lens that does all the heavy lifting. The T3i is a very good camera, put something other than those kit lenses on it and you'll see the difference as soon as you look through the view finder. Prime lenses generally deliver better quality at a better price, so you get a lot more for you money with a prime.

I'd certainly get the glass now. Add me in to the ones who love the 70 to 200 mm. I use it religiously. In time, if you want to upgrade bodies, you'll already have some glass to put on that nicer camera. As far as the Digital Rebel series, I used the older brothers to the one you have now, the 300D and later the XTi, and loved them. For some reason, I feel like some of my best shots were taken with the 300D in 2004 and 2005.

Good glass does not guarantee great photos. Personally I would not spend a dime on new lenses. Not yet anyway. No one mentioned improving your technique. I don't have high end lenses, nor do I have low end lenses. Yet everything I sell is sharp and high quality. A few of my photos were even shot with the old 18-55 kit lens. A few years ago I bought a Canon 7D. I absolutely love it. But I was getting lots of soft photos with it and was both disappointed and frustrated. Online wisdom said that there were problems with the 7D's software. I upgraded the firmware and saw some improvement but I still wasn't happy. I really thought it was the camera body or lens calibration.

To make a long story short, it was me. Because the 7D revealed more of lenses limitations I ended up going to to basics, using a tripod more, understanding where the fall off was for quality, re-acquainting myself with exposure techniques, etc. I'm now very happy with my 7D. You can get some beautiful, tack sharp photos with mid-range or even cheap glass with good solid technique. That's not to say that you should not buy good glass. But you need to understand why you want the glass.

When you are ready to spend some money put it into glass first. When you have good technique, at that point you'll know exactly what problem you are trying to solve.

So, basically we have given him a few choices

(insert sarcasm with laugh track)

-- Definitely get a new camera.
-- No, no, no! You needs new glass!
-- New glass will only go so far. It's all you.
-- People are selling photos here taken with pin hole cameras. LOL
-- A good photographer could use an iPad and sell it here.
-- The red zone is for the loading and unloading of passengers only.

Well said, Chuck!

hi, The camera is ok. spend your money on glass. The canon L lens . Two lens to start is canon 24-105L F4,and 70-200L F2.8. Hope this helps. Bill

I've had the T3i the 55-250, and now shoot exclusively FF with the 6D, 5dmk2, and the 5dmk3.
I also no longer use the kit lens....sold them all for the L-series glass.

I would say that if you had a choice, I'd start with glass. You'll love the 70-200 F4.0...I have the 70-200 2.8L IS II and it *rocks*.
The glass really needs to compliment the body, and not the body complimenting the glass (in my opinion).
If you go FF and stick with kit glass, you may not be all that impressed. But improve the glass with the T3i, then start to save again for 6D or 5DMK3....THEN you'll start working toward having some great gear.

Best of luck.

~Michel Soucy

Thank you Steve, James, Kevin, Andrew, Joseph, Chuck, Bill, Craig and Michel for your good advice.

I'm going to go with getting the good glass first. Continue to improve my technique and save up for a full frame later on down the road. Thanks everyone for your time and helpful information. I appreciate it!! Have a great day...

May be a SILLY question. Do they make the 70-200L in black?

Nope.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/lenses/black_or_white_lenses.do

~Michel Soucy

quote:" Not yet anyway. No one mentioned improving your technique"

He didn't ask that. He asked about choosing between a new body or new glass and that is what I was answering. You can work on improving your technique with good, or poor glass, but at some point you will notice the limitations of cheap lenses. ESPECIALLY when you are printing large. All things equal, you will get a better quality output with a good lens as opposed to a poor lens....and i'll repeat, "all things equal". And I say this having shot with an 18-55 kit lens for 10 years.

quote:"If I may what do you think about my images now are they sell worthy?"

It doesn't matter what I think in regards to if your images are sell worthy. If people buy them, then the answer is, "to some". The problem with asking other photographers about your work is MOST have a strong personal bias as to their own likes and dislikes. Me? I have very strong opinions on who should and should not sell their work. To me, to be a "professional" you should already know your craft in a lot of detail. Lighting, shooting in manual and all that other fun stuff.

Thanks Mike for the link. The heat issue and having a white body makes sense. Still draws attention.

Thanks for your input Kevin. I think I will always have room to grow/learn with photography and more was trying to see where I'm at now and where to go from there.

quote:"I think I will always have room to grow/learn with photography"

We always have room to grow and learn. A life long quest.

Not a zoom, but a really nice 200mm that's a bit less conspicuous than the white ones.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-200mm-2-8L-Telephoto-Cameras/dp/B000053HBB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404753204&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+200mm I guess you'll have to copy and paste the whole link, sorry.

Photography is definitely a life long quest. That's why deciding what gear to invest in along the way is so important.

Growing and learning is a part of life. I think it keeps it interesting.

Thanks for the link Andrew.