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11 Years Ago
How to critique your own work
Being able to critique your own work will allow you to see your own images from the viewpoint of the buyer. If your not making sales, despite advertising, tagging, etc, it might be due to your work being so horrible.
There are many mistakes beginners and even advanced people make when shooting a photo. And many of those people, unless they look at their own work critically may never see the faults in it. Either accepting their work as being good enough, or they might have convinced themselves that they are indeed a master, because they bought a good camera or whatever. Being able to critique yourself is an art in itself and will let you improve yourself over time.
Never ask family or friends to critique your work. It will either give you useless results or bad feelings. If you ask someone like that for a look, they will always tell you that your work looks great. And if you ask can be be more specific – what do you like? They will often wave their hand and say, well all of it is nice. Toss the answer. It's useless unless they tell you why they like it. If they gave a pause before answering or looked at their friend, toss it. If they look and just stare with awe, you might have a winner, just don't let them roll their eyes.
Anyway, this is a primer of what to look for in having a good looking photo – it can apply to paintings too to a degree, but I see more bad photos than paintings.
Always sort your pictures into 2 directories – the trip you were on, and an edit directory. So you can erase the ones in the edit and keep the old ones for later. Never edit an original. And always back up the work before you start anything.
Step 1 – EVAULATUON
When sorting through images you have to look at basic elements.
1. Blurry - Is the image blurry? If the image has motion blur (you have to look up close), if it's soft, or things in the scene moved like a person, flower or tree – erase it. While you can sometimes save an image with a painter program (DA painter, etc), it's best to just remove it. I'll often erase the original if it's really bad.
2. Story - Does my image tell a story? Can I or anyone else understand the context of this image just by looking at it? If you the photographer can't tell where you were or why you shot it – don't post it. How am I supposed to know if you don't?
3. Framing – A part of story telling is the framing you use in the image. I'll go into it a little more below. Basically framing hides things in the background and helps the story.
4. Balance – Some scenes need a certain amount of balance. Like all the action shouldn't be on one side of the image. There are exceptions to this rule, but it shouldn't look like one side of the image will tip over if placed on a table.
5. Interest – Images from your vacation are often not very interesting. Many images are snapshots. A snap shot is any image that looks like you took it in a hurry. It often has elements that make a scene busy or has things that are cut in half. People, windows, signs, etc, cut in half at random places. Sometimes a location or an item has a special meaning to you, but often it doesn't translate to something for us.
6. Exposure – Is the sky the right color? Is there a very heavy color cast on the scene? Is there a very hot bright spot or really dark shadows? If the scene looks balanced colorwise, and everything else checks out move on to Step 2, otherwise just toss the image
Step 2 – Editing
If you use an SLR and it has a RAW function – ALWAYS shoot in raw. Side by side they look like a softer version of a jpg, often with less color comparatively. Using a raw editor you can fix color problems, chromatic aberrations, poor exposure, etc much easier than you can if you shot with straight JPG. If your goal is to become a pro photographer, even if you don't edit much now, you might later. Years later I will often go back to old things that I couldn't edit and fix them, all because I shot it in RAW.
At this stage your looking at your image, you edited the basic color if it was RAW. It's time to straighten. It always amazes me how many people don't straighten their image.
1. If you shoot a scene with water, always make sure the horizon is straight.
2. If you shoot a scene with buildings, check the horizon and the buildings. There are times when the horizon is actually slanted such as a road, but to the eye it will never look right. When your in doubt about what to straighten, always use a building as a guide, because those have to be straight, unless it's an old structure.
There are many other types of images that should be straight. However there are other types that are ok to be crooked looking or leaning, and that's usually when you look up or down at a building, often it can create a unique look.
After you straighten it, crop it. You want to try to find balance, but at the same time keep as much picture as possible. If you crop something very tight, you'll lose picture information or simply make the image too small. When I crop i'll use a fixed crop at the pixel dimensions I use. The picture may stretch a little or shrink depending on the size of the crop. At this point save it and give it a creative name, something that will attract attention without seeing the picture.
Step 3 – Cloning things out.
Depending how you straightened it, cropping may leave what I call – crop marks. A crop mark is that little white or black border that's left over because that part of the picture is missing. When cropping you want to try to avoid this, but sometimes you can't help it. You do want to fix these, especially when selling paintings.
However after that, you have to decide what else needs to be removed, and sometimes there is so much to be removed you may just want to scrap the shot at this point. If you think it will take longer than an hour to clone things out – delete it and find something else.
I've never met a scene that was perfect.
THINGS TO LOOK FOR:
GARDENS – Gardens will usually have sprinkler heads, marker signs, people, roads, cars, dead plants, bare spots on the lawn etc.
HOUSES – Dead lawns, dog piles, security signs, Christmas decorations (nearly impossible to remove some of them), wires leading to the house, house numbers (I usually remove them), other houses, dead trees, etc.
CARS – May have odd reflections of people, dirt, scratches, dents, maybe the background is poor.
STILL LIFE – If the scene is supposed to be vintage, remove anything modern. Watches, wires, security stuff, people in reflections, tags, spider webs, dust, and anything your eye spots.
PEOPLE/PORTRAIT or PET – red eye, branches growing from a head, distracting elements like wires, poles, signs, other people, etc.
There are many purists however that think an image has to be a documentary (untouched by a photographer). Art is not a documentary. However if you can avoid cloning things out later, or line them up with other things to make it easier – do that. You'll thank yourself for it later.
For example:
If there is a garbage can, sign, person etc – line them up with a natural element to block it out. I'll often use a plant or a flower to remove something else. On a street scene I might use a person walking to remove something in the background. If you time it right you won't have to clone it out. If the element is a sign post, try not to line it up with a door way or a window edge, because it's hard to replace something on a vertical. If you can line bad things up against a solid background.
After editing, adjust color, sharpen and your done.
GENERAL TERMS – WITH EXAMPLES
FRAMING:
When someone uses the term framing they aren't talking about the border around the image. A frame is when you use an element in the scene to help a story, or to block an ugly area of an image. Often framing can be used to tell the time of year, by using a flower or something that would be there during that time of year.
All of these are a form of framing.
The first one, the pine tree blocks out much of a boring background. Eyes will naturally go to light, and the light is on the wagon. The tree is framing the wagon with it's trunk and branch. The flowers were added to help balance the shot. I wasn't thrilled with the path, it does add a little bit to the story, but would have been more of a pain to add new grass, due to the angle and shadows.
The second one, the trees frame the horse ride. Note again that the light in the back draws the eyes on that then the horse. I did a lot of cloning on this there used to be a back on this wagon and I didn't like it there so I took it out. Same with the branches on the left, they were a distraction.
The last one, is a bit more subtle. There is a tree in there, but the fence is more of a frame for the whole thing. It's very important, when you shoot a fence, that the fence doesn't block anything. Note how the path is open at the front, it leads people into the shot. The cows are bonus. I purposely made the background lighter so the eyes know where to go.
THE STORY
This is probably the most confusing term in photography. When I think of story, I think of – once upon a time. But a story is simple a way to show a picture, where I don't have to explain what your looking at. Not every scene needs a story and not everything has one. But it helps.
Each of these scenes tells it's own story. You can make one up as you dive into it. However the story may not be as strong if your not in trade.
Here is an example of a story – The scene – A tractor stands in front of a field, a path leads to the farm. Being in front, the tractor is the main story. The crops are the thing that the tractor is used for. The road is what the tractor came from which leads us to the barn. Each element helps the other elements
---BUSY---
This can be a killer for many people. There are two kinds of busy – good and bad. Bad busy should really be called DISTRACTING, good busy usually means there are many things to look at all at the same time. The pharmacy on the right is a very busy image, however everything in the scene is related. Everything is poisonous.
Bad busy is when you have an image and I can't tell what you were taking. In your mind, you were taking a picture of an old guy on a bench. But what you took was the background, kids playing, odd shadows, the sky, cars, etc. everything around the guy. That's a snap shot. If you want the guy on the bench, zoom up on him, or get closer.
General stores will always be busy. There isn't much you can do about it. However everything is related in the scene. Some people hate busy, they like simple things they can understand. For those people, you take the still lives that are on the shelves.
Anyway, the last one however is BAD busy. Partly because the items don't really relate, and partly because it's so dark in there. There's also only one real tone in there. It's not really an eye catcher, it's still experimental as to whether it will sell or not.
CITY SCENES
City scenes can be complicated. Framing and filling the frame with the picture, without spilling onto something that's boring, dirty or unlrelated can be tricky. It's also hard due to parked cars and such. The first scene shows a cafe. I stayed close to keep it personal. The tree is a frame, it shows that trees do grow in NY. It also shows the time of year it was, it's not fall or winter. I cloned out wires, I think a roof of a car, and some stickers in the windows.
The second, is busy, it's both good and bad busy. There's something you'll notice in almost all of my work, I never show wire, traffic lights (unless they are unavoidable), and cars. If it's an old house a modern car hurts the shot and can create a snap shot appearance. However, 20 years from now it will start looking quaint because of the now old cars that are in there. City scenes however should look busy, which is why I left everything in. I did however add clouds, because the sky was blank.
The last shot has the most cloning. On the left was a road with signs, cars, lines, on the right there were draped wires, part of that wall was missing – I think it was another building. I re-built the wall there to keep the flow. Its very hard to remove wires on a street when there are trees there, but If I left it my eye would travel on the road because the eye is easily distracted.
DON'T USE EFFECTS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING
It's said that covering a snap shot with a fun overlay (like neon or some blur filter), will change the work to art – but that's false. That's like icing a stale cake, no one will be fooled. Effects can however add dimension if used right.
In the first two scenes, simply dropping some lines from the window provides the illusion that sunlight is coming in. It creates a mood and adds warmth, it also show perspective and depth. Note the path that leads the eye into the scene, it's also bright, which leads the eye. The scene is busy, but a good busy, it lets you study it. Selective highlighting allows the eye to absorb each detail, adding highlights on the belts, and machine beds and such. The tool on the left serves as a basic frame, partly unintended do to where I could stand.
The last one uses natural light – use it whenever you can.
COMMON MISTAKES WHEN SHOOTING
There are many common mistakes people make when shooting:
1. When photographing a person, never let something grow out of their head. Don't line them up with a tree or a post. This goes for anything. Clone it out if you have to. If your mean, and on a trip someone hands you their camera to take a picture of them, do line them up.
2. Don't center. This is a common rule that can be broken at any time. Mostly it means, when you shoot something, and it's centered, don't leave a bunch of blank space around the subject. Either turn the camera to portrait, or place them next to something nicer like a bed of flowers.
3. Make sure you are shooting something. Many people get caught up in the moment of how pretty it is that day, or a scent in the air, and shoot randomly. Try to make it something interesting.
4. Don't take pictures of signs. If the scene is not interesting without the sign, then it won't be with the sign. Signs are good to know where you were – at home – but not here. You really don't want to say to the customer that you got this on a trip, it turns them off when they see a sign to the attraction or a sign on a building (the little history signs you see on some buildings).
5. If you take a picture of something make sure the shot is not cluttered. If it was trash day – don't shoot the garbage. If it's a pretty house, don't shoot the graffiti next door. Try to make sure everything in the scene is related. Like if it's a historic house, and there is someone in costume, get them, don't get the tourists.
6. When you shoot something reflective, don't be in the shot. Whether it's a reflection in the window, vase, or glass, don't be there. If you know your shooting against glass, wear black that day. Avoid reflections on glass if you can help it
COMMON MISTAKES WHEN SELLING
1. Many people are under the impression that anything here will sell. Just because it's called a gallery doesn't mean you will fool the people into thinking your item is art.
2. On that note, don't take pictures of signs and sell them. This goes for ceramic things left on a porch as a still life. It can be a part of the scene, but it shouldn't be the scene itself. The same thought is for statues that aren't yours (statues are actually copyrighted art, and you can't sell those).
3. If you live in a certain town, don't take a picture of a random street thinking that someone might be homesick and might want a picture of their town. Chances are they aren't that sick. I've seen many take pictures of just random streets, or the sign leading up to an attraction. If you must take pictures in your own town, choose the center, or a landmark. Preferably during spring or fall, sometimes winter. Make sure to mark the location and the town and state name so people can find it later.
4. No pictures of your pets, babies, single flowers, family shots, your car, etc. There are nice shots of babies, but it's rare to get a good one that everyone will enjoy. Pictures of pets should be on a neutral background like grass or a wall, and don't use a flash so the eyes aren't red and taken at eye level. There are many flower shots here and to be good it means you need great light, usually a close up, often rain drops, or something that will make yours stand out. However more often then not, people shoot flowers because they are bright, easy to find, and almost always at hip level so you don't have to bend much.
5. No one is interested in a picture of you and your girlfriend. No one wants to see your family reunion. No one cares about uncle Floyd or Aunt Edna at the pool. Save those for home or facebook.
6. If you take a picture of a car, make sure you don't have distracting things like reflections, people, and fingerprints. That's goes the same for still lives, no fingerprints.
7. Sunsets only look good to when your there. Just because a scene has color doesn't mean it will sell. There are so many AWESOME sunsets on this site, or any site – that the one you took out of your car window with a cell phone, won't sell just because it's here and you called it art. To add, if it is a sunset it should still be of something. In other words, if the scene didn't have a sunset, would it be interesting? If it's just some color and black trees, it won't be that interesting.
8. Oddly there are many images of just clouds. I've seen them in a dozen accounts or more. If you did nothing more than point your camera towards the sky, what makes your image so special that a buyer can't do the same thing? And if a buyer can make it themselves, they don't need you. If you have other shots that are far more interesting, boring images like that may turn off the buyer and they may simply stop looking at your stuff.
9. Always ask yourself: Would I buy this? Who am I making this for? And always be honest with yourself.
Why is this quick primer so long? Because I wrote it. And I don't write things in short ways. If I can make something more complicated I will.
Critiquing your own work starts at the moment you see a shot that you want to have. It happens when you point the camera and get ready for this shot and the next one. It happens when you choose the one you want to edit. It happens when you edit for final presentation. And it happens when you look at older work.
Being able to rate yourself will mean you have to be open and honest with yourself. Listen to that little devil on your shoulder that says you should toss the shot. He's probably right. And if the other little devil argues, don't listen to him, just toss it. I've tossed things well after I edited it. The amount of time I fuss with something removing tiny things, or filling in noise, it can take hours. That scene above with the machine shop, any of those often take 5 hours or more to make. I'll zoom in at every level to adjust highlights and shadow and remove stuff that doesn't belong. It has to look right in my eyes. It has to pass my judgment. If I can see the mistake, then other people might also. I am my worst critic when it comes to judging my own work.
To rate yourself, you should start by rating other people's work. When someone asks for a photo critique, all I hear are people whining that they don't know how to do it. Then try! To be able to see the flaws or the good things in someone elses work, means you can do your own. You have to toss out any feelings you have for a person or what they might feel and really look at it. Do you like it? Yes? No? How come? Where does your eye go? What's the first thing you look at? What's the second?
What do you like about the piece? Do you like the colors? Context? Location? Is it a place from your childhood and that's why you like it?
What do you not like about it? Is it crooked, blurry, busy, no story, no point? Just looking over something you can easily point these pretty fast.
You'll find it gets easier with time and practice. And the more you nitpick your own things the better the outcome later on.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
Reply Order
11 Years Ago
Thank you Mike for taking the time to post all of this helpful information. I have yet to read through the entire post but I am looking
forward to it.
11 Years Ago
Thank you for sharing this Mike and for taking the time to write it out so thoroughly in terms that everybody can understand. It was a good read and I learned a lot!!!
11 Years Ago
I'd like to add that under "common mistakes when selling" your #6 (about cars) probably has the same rules as the one about statues.(#2)
Good post!
11 Years Ago
Great post Mike. I guess I better get over to my page and do some serious house cleaning.
11 Years Ago
yeah some things will repeat, i proof read it all, but things will be missed. and more can be added to this thread if you want. they aren't paying me, but maybe with good karma i'll get some sales.
mostly i hate repeating myself over and over, which is why i usually put this stuff on a web page of some kind. i probably should anyway, but eh. this way hopefully people will be steered in this direction when they need help, instead of asking over and over.
knowing a few simple things like stories and framing, will allow you to see the area your in, in a whole new light. you'll often see me veering off the course because i saw an interesting thing and i want to get in the shot. and often a boring item becomes interesting because i mixed it with something else. sometimes getting on your knees gets the best shot. or hanging over a fence. just don't fall in the water, you could hurt the camera. or drown.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Great post and is now copied and pasted into my desktop for easy reference. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
11 Years Ago
Very good advice Mike. One tip I would like to add is this.
When I come back from a shoot and go through my photos, I always look through them in thumbnail view first. That way, I can see which ones have the best composition that jumps out at you, even in a small size. Once I have those picked out, then I go through them to check for sharpness, distractions, etc. I find this keeps me from spending time editing shots that just aren't that well composed to begin with.
11 Years Ago
Mike, Thanks so much for sharing, this is fantastic!!! I recently cleaned out all of my galleries. I am my own worst critic, to the point where I nit pick everything. Some days I wonder if I'm over doing it a bit? According to what you've said I'm on the right track. I joined the local photography club again this year because they judge photos based on whether they are technically correct, not if the photo's pretty, or because they're my friends. I love your tip about using the natural environment to eliminate distractions! However, I have sold photos of my pets, and single flowers. I'm not ready to give those up yet. But you're right, they're not selling like hot cakes! ;)
What I really should remove from my gallery is all the frogs, it's not likely anyone will ever purchase them. I've seen artworks sell, but has anyone ever sold a frog photograph?
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
11 Years Ago
Excellent perspectives to ponder. Thanks for taking the time.
11 Years Ago
people buy all sorts of things, just look at that front page. i would never erase it, if it's a good shot. it's for those images that are really lousy. if the light is poor if it's random. it will always be up to the photographer and the buyer. basically i think if the image doesn't make me go wow even a little bit it's a tosser. if it's already here - like that brown store up above, just keep it. cuz who knows who might want it.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
basically, if it's selling, then keep it. but if your not it might be time to go over what you have.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
so, you had a look at my profile, and then were inspired to sit down and write this ;)
I'm still in the process of figuring out what whether I should even be trying this out in the first place. Your suggestions, advice, and critiques that I've read in different discussions have been very helpful so far. This one's given me a lot more "homework" though.
Thanks for the guidelines. I appreciate the time you take to contribute on these discussions and to share your expertise.
I'll be joining Leah in "house cleaning" now :)
Debi
11 Years Ago
Christina, there are pictures of pets and there artistic portraits of animals. This definitely falls into the second category:
11 Years Ago
i would love to point out the bad shots, but i can't due to that not being nice and all. but i think you know the ones. little doggy shot from above, inside with flash, junk on the floor, dirty walls, messy room. a snapshot of the family pet. that kind of thing. the dog here is isolated and things were done with it enough that dog lovers would like it. if the animal looks more like a tripping hazard, then the image may not be as good. it's all in the prep work and there will always be exceptions to the norm. since it's hard to cover all bases.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
The sign picture... is this NOT ok? I've had compliments on it, wanting to know if this is what you are talking about... would love input...
This is a sunset.... I thought it was pretty awesome, would love input on this also.
11 Years Ago
the signs i'm talking about are the ones you see in the front of some historic thing. like this way to the watchi-hoosie-momma light house. where there is nothing special about it. i think your sign is a little hard to focus on and it could use more contrast. i'm not sure if a different angle would make it look better. don't much like the house in the background. the second seems work, it has that light burst. you'll know a bad one when you see it. usually drab nothing special. the idea is to make or create or find something that a typical buyer can't or may never be able to make. cameras are everywhere now, and everyone thinks they are an artist. as long as your stuff is more advanced than what a buyer can do then your fine. though that sunset would make a pretty fair hdr. this way the greens would be more apart against the shadows, and there would be less burnt parts in the sky. what mostly sells the shot is the light burst - that's what makes it different then a common shot. if you waited minutes before or after, that shot might now have been there because the cloud would have eaten the sun or not caught up with it in time.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Great advice, Mike. I do find in my case that I get honest feedback from my family when I ask (husband and daughter). If something is marginal, they tell me honestly. They know I don't want praise, I want an honest opinion so something that I kind of like but is marginal won't get posted. That's not to say I haven't posted some stuff that I thought later I should take down after looking at it for a while. Done a lot of that too....
11 Years Ago
Thanks Mike, I read it, and will put it into practice,( I hope). I especially loved the information about framing. You are always so helpful and kind, you must love people.
11 Years Ago
Appreciate the post very much.... time for me to have a good hard look at work I've already done. Being honest about your work is a good place to start on the road to becoming a better technician! Thanks again for an insightful post!
11 Years Ago
to be honest i don't like people at all. i just help because it's the right thing to do.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Mike,
I did take the same shot on the way down the river, 5 minutes before and it wasn't anything special... coming back it was. I am playing with it in HDR, which is adding some oranges and yellows to the skyline - I will probably replace it. Thanks so much for the comments. I didn't even notice the house in the sign picture. I had put it on facebook right after the trip, before I signed up on here and had dozens of comments on that picture in a group of say 50 photos. I may play with the HDR on it also, I figured it ever sold it would probably be a person local to that city or area perhaps. Just downloaded the HDR program last night and can't wait for some quality time to figure it out. Since seeing some of these posts a few days ago I have went in and "plucked" quite a few so so pictures, when I have time I will probably thin them out some more. I was thinking more is better mentality and now I'm thinking differently... go for the WOW. I am fixing to sit down and paint at the easel until I pass out and quit thinking about photography for a minute. Thanks again for your great insight!
Cathy
11 Years Ago
Mike you are a star!! Could even be a constellation called Savad one day u know , we'll contact NASA ...lol :-)
11 Years Ago
Much of Mike's advice is about composition, and so it applies just as much to painting.
11 Years Ago
Photography is not my medium, put the points you make are applicable to all. And a lot of it is composition desgn. Much of my work is from photo references....or just photos, a bit of artistic license. All are my own shots.
I too need to cut and paste this for future refernce.
Thank you for taking the time to write this post, Mike.
11 Years Ago
you really can't play with hdr, it's not an effect. it's something you do at the time of the capture. if there is no detail in the shadow, adding something will just make it fake. same with faking the color in the sky, since they may not be any due to where they sun is, and you would then have to mirror that in the water.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
the basic rule for wow is - always show them your best work. if you take a 100 pictures, you might only have 20 to edit. from there you may only make 3-5 because the rest won't be wow enough. however there might be some in there that is less impressive, they still might sell. if you get a hot picture i'll often post other angles.
in the case of the sun, you now know that the sun behind a cloud will often do that. so you can wait for that shot to happen, just don't stare into the sun. there are some shots you can just time. once it all clicks it works well, but there are times that my mind goes blank when shooting something. it usually happens when i have too many things to look at. so i always shoot in a sequence so i don't miss anything.
starting with shooting the whole room as an hdr.
moving on to quarters, shooting a corner of the room then the next and so forth. then i'll break down each angle into smaller pieces, and shoot that. each one i shoot, while it's being shot i figure out the next scene zooming in on certain things. when i exhausted everything from one view point i move onto the next. if i do it systematically i can cover a whole room in little time, just don't get in my way.... i rarely see people, i'm likely to knock you over.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
i'm curious how it's a paradox.... always liked the word though. i wouldn't mind having a death comet or something named after me.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Hey Mike,
A paradox is a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth. You said you don't really like people, but you're helping others, who you don't like, because it's the right thing to do. Just seems like a paradox.
Hmmm, the Savad Star of Death and Dismemberment? Kind of like that? Coming December 2012?
R
11 Years Ago
i guess i can go with the lost text of the mayan prophecy and that shall be called savad, they would recognize it by the mustache symbol.
i'll stay as a paradox, a mystery within a mystery covered in chocolate and marshmallow.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
No, I adjust the composition to suit the painting.......or even the time of day (which affects sky color, due to the angle of the sun). Shadows appear black in photography, but to the naked eye there are objects, shapes and contrasts....the object of using photos as refernces is merely a guide. One wants a painting to depict the real scene, as seen:).
11 Years Ago
LOL Oh the mustache symbol works perfectly somehow.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, Chocolate...
11 Years Ago
now i made myself want chocolate. though i've been craving bagels but just too lazy to get get them. i'm hoping for a terrible halloween with rain and wind. but it looks like it will be a nice day after all. so i guess i'll have to wait till next thursday to get discount candy.
---Mike Savad
Leah Saulnier The Painting Maniac
11 Years Ago
Great you are being so helpful Mike you have a good eye. I need to improve some of my photo's but pretty happy with most of it and my sales
11 Years Ago
Thanks Mike for your time and advice. I am working my way through my photos and getting rid of a lot of mediocre stuff. Christina, I have sold many frog photos as cards. There is a group of people who like frogs, just like pigs, roosters, etc. Dont get rid of them.
11 Years Ago
Heck, there is enough good tips in there to more than pay for your membership fee!
Seriously though, I have learned more from guys like Mike,JC,Murray,Rich and several others, than I ever have reading books or articles on Art/Photography.
Good job Mike
-Peter
11 Years Ago
Cathy, I might suggest taking the tempeture of your sunset image to between 6,000-7,000 or so (play with it).
A ot of times that can really bring the color into a sunset.
11 Years Ago
Thank you so much Mike. I am a painter and have learned so much from you also.
you really are a Paradox, you have to like people the way you help all of us.
Now I have to go find my Halloween candy stash. you guys made me hungry.
11 Years Ago
Wow! This is a great post, Mike. I'm marking it to come back to time and again. Thank you!
11 Years Ago
Great post Mike,
Heading to Calif in the morning for a few days and will now shoot things with a different perspective. :)
11 Years Ago
Great advice, Mike. Thank you. Am copying and pasting this in notepad for reference when doing a ritual culling of my work.
-Zeana
11 Years Ago
Good advice and a lot of it.
A worthy tome that should be on a web site and therefore searchable for subject of interest
How about adding what to avoid....
+ Overly busy compositions
+ Messy compositions
+ The above coupled with dingy dark and confusing colors and even more confusing multiple contrasts
+ The lack of a "point of focus" ie: making people wonder what they are supposed to see in an image (everything??)
+ All of the above, which will usually lead to lackluster, confusing imagery that the viewer tires of very quickly
If I included some that you mentioned, apologies.
(You write in a complicated way as you say)
11 Years Ago
in some ways it helps me out too. i've heard too many times from weirdos that leave this site screaming that they hate it here. they call the work drek and and curse off the place. and they are partly right. i've seen really great images, so-so, passable, bad, really bad, why in the world did they take that bad, and remove that camera from them at once bad. one of the reasons is, this is their first place they sent picture too.
when i first began i sent pictures to pbase and was on the canon group in dpreview doing challenges there. but i wasn't getting anywhere, until i joined a site called photosig.com i think they still exist, but they aren't as popular as they once were. the site was about giving and getting critiques. they gave you thumbs as a reward. -3 to +3 along with some kind of advice. not all good, not all bad. as i gave the critiques i learned more than the ones who gave them to me. my eyes became faster at looking at things. and the images did improve. i was there and still am more or less, for like 7 years or more now. since then i moved on to cafepress where i had about 450 pictures sell pretty well. made enough in a month to pay off the year. looking back on it now it was hardly anything.
then i joined a site called redbubble, i think it was my first pod, and all my old stuff is there right now. stuff i don't sell here, but probably should. it's very popular to steal.... but doesn't match my style. the pictures were about the same as cafe as i did both of them, though thinking back i think i was on bubble longer.
after cafepress stabbed everyone in the back i moved on to zazzle. where i was able to increase my volume to about 1200 and i sold a lot more. and still do. whenever i started this place, someone in bubble told me about it and i think they all moved here, which is why it's so dead at redbubble, i increased to almost 2000 images.
over the years i got an idea of what sells best and mold my images into that. i did the same thing in photosig - but that was for points. the site was almost a poison because i found myself making images just to please them. taking pictures of flowers and ducks because at the time that was the thing. until there was the day i was chasing some goose and i was thinking - why in the world am i doing this? for them? it's easy to fall into that crowd.
i find i like certain things and i find that other people like those same things, and that seems to work for me. even though i do make some things that don't really appeal to me - like guns and gore. i do make them to fill another niche. but i make them my way.
as for helping people, i always did. while i still don't really like people all that much (i'm not the type of person that would chase you off my lawn with a pitch fork).. (i don't have a pitch fork)... i go more for the selfless acts. more people should do that - anywhere. you do it because it's right. that's my thing.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
One of the things I dreaded when I started my degree program was giving critiques. My perspective was, I am a student, what do I know about critiquing someone else's work? I don't know anything more than anyone else in the class and isn't that what a teacher is paid for? However, critiques are built into the grading system, so either you left a critique, or you risked your grade. And you had to learn how to give them - constructively.
"This sucks." - Not constructive and will cost you grade points
"I think that if you shifted your frame of focus to this and adjusted the light and shadow here, it will improve the image." - Constructive
One of my early classes, a female posted an image, said she knew something about it was off but needed to make the deadline for posting to not lose grade points. I pointed out what I saw and I did it correctly. Well, this chick jumped down my throat. Followed by the instructor jumping down hers.
One thing I did learn was how to ignore unconstructive criticism. There is always going to be someone who doesn't like what you do, your style or you. They will try to be as cruel as they can when giving you a "critique."
I didn't think you could use pitchforks in Jersey. Don't you have to use a baseball bat?
11 Years Ago
Great stuff Mike. If I start trying to do art from photos again I'll reread it often. That aside there are somethings that will apply to painters and even doodlers like me. Thanks!
11 Years Ago
we have no monsters here, so they don't sell that kind at home depot.
also when anyone says that i can't critique just usher them to the restaurant and ask them what their favorite food is. and which one they hate - and ask them why. you'll hear everything you ever wanted to know about a dish, even though they can't cook themselves.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
and the other tip is - when choose your work to edit, always try to wait a month before editing what you just took. while it's ok to work with some of them fresh, it's often better to do it with a new mind. it's all to easy to forgive yourself when you had bad luck getting pictures. being chased by bees, kicked by goats, stung by scorpians, captured by aliens, falling down stairs, bad weather and the like. this is where you may upload less than good work because you survived a typical trip.
i find i can be more selective months after it happened, when it's just a picture and not a saga of how i got the shot and it was a miracle to do so. this is one of the reasons why i have a pile of pictures from the last year and a half and don't do them all in order but instead skip around. my style and preferences change as well. and i usually cull 100 or more images a month using this method.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Thanks John! I will. I just paid and download the Photomatix HDR program night before last, I did increase the yellow and orange with good effects but I was playing with the program mostly at that point because I just got a new toy. I love the photo as is, but if I get a better result I'll replace it. I called it a sunset - but it was about and hour to an hour and a half before, the sun was lower but at that point not setting. I was actually on a train track at sunset with a rainbow shooting my heart out and didn't get an image worth uploading, the rainbow did not even show up. I'm learning here, but enjoying the process. I actually haven't uploaded most of that trip I just skipped ahead and uploaded that photo because it jumped out at me. I wish I didn't work 50 hours a week so I could take pretty pictures and paint them all the time! Maybe one day!
11 Years Ago
Thanks John! I will. I just paid and download the Photomatix HDR program night before last, I did increase the yellow and orange with good effects but I was playing with the program mostly at that point because I just got a new toy. I love the photo as is, but if I get a better result I'll replace it. I called it a sunset - but it was about and hour to an hour and a half before, the sun was lower but at that point not setting. I was actually on a train track at sunset with a rainbow shooting my heart out and didn't get an image worth uploading, the rainbow did not even show up. I'm learning here, but enjoying the process. I actually haven't uploaded most of that trip I just skipped ahead and uploaded that photo because it jumped out at me. I wish I didn't work 50 hours a week so I could take pretty pictures and paint them all the time! Maybe one day!
11 Years Ago
"to be honest i don't like people at all. i just help because it's the right thing to do."
@ Mike, You and I, might be more alike, than I first thought!!! :P
I recently saw a page, with a photoshop tutorial on using single image (exposure), to create HDR effects.
If I can find it again, I will post it. :)
However, like you said, nothing beats taking the bracketed shots from the camera.
11 Years Ago
@ Tina: Here's an article on that topic.
http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2012/08/15/get-the-hdr-effect-from-one-image/
11 Years Ago
Well, Mike, with this thread you made me get off my lazy tushie and edit a couple of photos I've had posted for a long time that I really like, but there was a small, distracting element in each of them that has been bugging me. I finally edited out the distracting thingy and I feel ever so much better....no more lazy editing.
11 Years Ago
I can think of just one tip that I didn't see here. I like to weed out the best photos by comparing the MP values. The higher they are, the sharper the image. I agree that this isn't foolproof at all, but it helps. Sharper images of drivel is still drivel, and sometimes softer is better.
Thank you for writing all this. It is obvious that your present scheme translates to sales. AND...you are a great person, no matter what you say about not liking people. I think those things are not mutually exclusive. You care enough to help.
I'll admit that HDR has me very puzzled. I have visited people's galleries of HDR that really knocked my socks off, and others that were just blurry. I'm putting that down to a bad concept or bad photos (bad technique?) to begin with.
Another best part of your tips above for me is to let the photos lie until the the emotional hold on you expires. Objectivity, for me, is hard. Another thing hard for me is the story line. I am very sure of mine, in my own mind. How do I make that more apparent? Does it even matter, since I can't see it,, or is that part of knowing what people like, and do I even want to do that? Do I just need to find niches that I like that other people do also? Writing about how and why the scene appeals to me might put more keywords out there and pull in people who might see what I see, maybe? Keywords is something to work on always.
I'm very grateful to you for sharing your knowledge!
11 Years Ago
Excellent advice Mike. I especially like the idea of waiting to edit your shots, funny how something that looks so great on the day it was taken can turn into one of those "What was I thinking?" shots! Thanks for taking the time to write this out it is invaluable information.
11 Years Ago
@ Phillip
It's true that compositional rules are made to be broken. But it really helps to know what the rules are before you break them. Most photos that follow the rules are at the very least competent. Very few good photos break the rules. Many horrid ones do, many, many, negligible ones do too. The question to ask before you break a compositional rule is, am I adding to the photo by doing this? Asking the question is important. The great ones always have a reason.
Most of the people Mike is speaking to, are still producing the negligible. Rules make you look and think. That's what lifts work out on monotony.
11 Years Ago
@diana - fuzzy hdr's could be that it was just not taken clearly. or they didn't line up. you would have to look up close to see if they had overlap issues. the story is just - is my intention clear in this photo? like if you had a dog, a beware of dog sign, and a junk yard, you would have a story. a path, an open gate and a garden. a child holding a cone, and the ice cream on the ground. something like that. it's easier to find the story have the shot was made, when i make the shot i just try to make sure it's all straight and nothing is clipped off anywhere. or i may shoot from different orientations.
finding niches helps a lot. there are so many landscape, flower, pet, and city shots that small things are forgotten. the cobbler, the leather smith, the jeweler, the dancer, and so on. finding those small things may lead to bigger things down the line. so if you look in my folder, you'll see it's not random, but directed at specific people. some are more popular than others.
oh yeah the other tip is - don't let your shadow get in the shot unless it's planned. so many times i block the light out just to see my outline.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Good stuff, Mike.
This reminds me that I need to go find my books on composition and reread them (or read for the first time in some cases). I have a habit of buying books and then not getting to them.
Also, everyone with a camera falls somewhere on this continuum :
11 Years Ago
Wonderful post, Mike, and a fabulous thread. Thank you for taking the time to do this ... very helpful.
11 Years Ago
Fantastic post Mike! I've also copied, pasted & printed this out to stash in my camera bag for great reference :) Thank you for taking the time to put together such well though out advice!!
11 Years Ago
Excellent post Mike.
I can't think of much to add, but a few tips to improve photography in general.
Practice on flowers. You don't have to chase them around, and you'll have to deal with every lighting situation and background you can think of. And it will give you an idea what a "busy" background is. I Can't tell you how many tiny flower pictures and insects I've had to pass on trying to publish because of a few blades of grass...there's loads of flower shots on here, don't upload it unless it's a really killer flower shot...I only plan to use tiny flowers, the very small ones you never see, and the best of my wildflower shots. I'm so sick of seeing roses I don't even shoot them myself any more, or any other cultivated flowers. I shoot wildflowers only these days.
Never leave home without your camera. I can't think of a better way to miss great shots than not having a camera handy. I missed two hawks circling 20 feet above me one day, My camera was at home on the kitchen table. Two instances like that and I've never left without it again in 20 years.
Never pass up a backlit shot. Sometimes they turn out phenomenal.
Remove the lens cap. Actually I never put mine on in the first place, a dark environment is perfect for fungus to grow and I know how many times I've picked up the camera and not been able to see a thing...and in the time it takes to remove the thing the chance at a picture is long gone. I don't use lens caps any more, lenses aren't hard to clean. I keep a UV filter on to protect the lens itself, anything happens, I replace the filter and not the lens.
Take a test shot and check the exposure. Chances are once you get it set it will stay pretty close unless it's a partly cloudy day...which is my favorite time.
Shoot low ISO. Some newer DSLR camera do pretty well at ISOs above 800 but I prefer the least noise possible, and if I want to sell it I don't want noise. SO I shoot 100 or 200 ISO almost exclusively. I know from using film for 30 years I can shoot ISO 200 in some pretty low light situations, digital is no different. And no noise.
Cloudy days are much better for nature shots, colors tend to come out great, shadows don't present such a problem and lighting stays fairly even. Indirect lighting is usually better than bright daylight. Outdoors shots of people work well under indirect lighting too. If needed a flash or reflector can help.
Don't pass up a foggy day. All I had to do is get a couple of "Oh Wow" comments on a picture of a heron sitting in fog and I was hooked. That picture is uploaded here and only one shot has more views. And if you can get just a little sunlight to bleed through, it creates some great lighting. I have a couple more I need to upload, I've been doing fog shots for a long time and I have several other good ones. ...
Sunsets - Try to get something in the picture that's close and recognizable, as opposed to the distant silhouette background. And I only go for sunsets with good cloud formations and loads of dramatic color. Or the reflection of the sun all the way across a lake. Put the sun to the side, I nave center the sun. Also 1/3 or less land, the rest sky or the reverse. Don't center the horizon.
Digital processing - Don't over do it. I usually do very little. Crop, a small amount of contrast adjustment if necessary and that's it. I think of the 35 or so shots I've uploaded, I used sharpening on maybe 3, contrast increase on 5 or 6. The rest are straight off the camera.
To me if it's not good enough to sign my name on it, it's not good enough to show anybody. I don't have much trouble being my own worst critic, I've been a musician since I was 5 and I've been my own worst critic as a musician as long as I can remember. I can remember very few nights I came off stage not thinking I could have done lots better...I see my photography the same way. If it's not sharp enough to print and clear, no motion blur, good exposure...you won't see it here.
I use an external hard drive for backup. Originals are never saved with changes, if I make any changes I save the file with a different file name, and in a different folder, The original stays untouched. Go to the "File" menu and use "Save As", never the little floppy icon. That icon saves changes and all as the original file. I learned the hard way...
11 Years Ago
WOW!! What a wealth of information. It will probably take me weeks to process all this info. However, I most certainly appreciate your generosity and selflessness. Not many people have the same spirit so I appreciate YOU. THANK YOU Mike!!!!
I remember you told someone to not just upload their pictures, but post it in the forum also. That is where the works will be seen. I don't see a forum here, or am I missing something? Where else should I post my images to be viewed and sold?
@Billy,......thank you for your advise also.
11 Years Ago
your in the forum. or i should say, a thread of that forum. when someone asks for - does anyone have halloween pictures, you post the image there to get a boost in views and such.
you should post everywhere off the site. because the artists here won't be buying, most don't anyway. they can help stir activity to your site and that can help in the search. but to be seen you have to advertise on on places like twitter, google plus, places like that.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Everything you says Mile depends a lot.
The photographs I better prepered everything to be good and in harmony are the ones people don't like very much. And some or the pourest photographs I have are the ones people like the most just because they are more colerfull or more cliche.
I used to write about my photographs in my blog, explaning every single details, the reason for the compositin, framing, lighting, angles, perspective, contrast, etc, etc. Nobody wanted read about this in my blog because for them the explanation are boring. They want what is cliche and colourful and that's all.
I think it is a mistake to say you never can centre the objects in the photographs. If you want creat more impact, tension, power, etc from the object you must centre.
You can take photos of member of you family if they are part of a context you want register. There are many photographers who became famous with their family photos that are today sold and bought as fine art because of their quality. The male model you can find n my portfolio is my brother.
There are many more things you says that I think is contestable.
Mike, I know you have experience as photographer and success selling your photographs, but if I follow what you says I am not going to do what I want to do ans what I like to do.
I know there are a lot of people who really like my photographs. Everywhere I show them people tell me they are impressed by the quality and beauty of my images. It is not my family or friends who says it but people I meet everywhere. The problem is to make people buy it. It seems that people like and what what I do but don't think it is for them.
There are a lot of crap photographs now because I was trying to have more works to offer, since I was told it helps sells. But I am not sure that produce a lot of photographs is better than have a few good ones.
11 Years Ago
Hi Mike, I see you have done some critiques in the past of peoples sites and wonder if you would take a look at mine if you have the time or inclination. I also understand if you don't want to. I just posted a "help please" topic on the discussion board so far no one has commented.
11 Years Ago
i never said you shouldn't put it in the center. it shouldn't be in the center with a whole bunch of empty space in it. but every rule will have a variable, it all depends how you do it and what it is.
you can shoot any way you want to. however there are many new people who just got a camera and have no friggin idea how to use it at all. and this is mostly for them. even the best photographers on this site might have a hard time selling if they make images no one wants. or if they don't advertise out enough.
but i'm sure you can agree, you have seen images on this site that just makes you say wow - but in a bad way.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
@susanne -
i can see this selling because it's music based and colorful.
this is a little too abstract for me, without it being in the music part it's hard to know what i'm looking at.
i can't read music, but i'm wondering if those notes play anything and if they relate to that instrument.
while i don't see anything wrong with this, i'm trying to figure out where it would be posted. i guess a saloon or a bar, but i'm not sure based on theme.
i would add tags - the colors, dream,dreamlike,magic,flight,avian,bird,birds,flying,dreamer,etc.
i don't see anything i would call a negative in the galleries, except that i'm not sure who the target would be so it would make it harder to market it out. make sure to push the work out. find music related trades on twitter and such and get them to be friends.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Don't take pictures of signs? I like your stuff, but that one's definitely worth taking out. That's just about all I sell!
11 Years Ago
it depends on the sign. what i've seen are vacation pictures - this way to the lighthouse. or a town name and it's just a sign. and nothing special of that sign. if it works for you then fine, but this is a general list.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
I think if you are good at selling its is great. But if you are not you better spend your time with something you are good at.
I realised that I can't sell anything. It's deppressing spend hours and days in front of the computer looking for tips, try everything, and don't see any selling. It means that it is a waist of time when I can do something better and something I enjoy.
The few photographs I ever sold wasn't sold by me. I never ever sold anything.
I need to find somebody good at selling to sell what I do while I can use my time photographing and improving my photos.
11 Years Ago
it all comes down to who your target audience is. often you have to shot a specific thing for a specific person in order to sell. like a fishing captain might like seeing fish, or an old boat at sea or something like that. then you have to market it, join google+, twitter etc, and find people that fit your audience. if you don't know who your audience is, then you might have the wrong images - even images that look good won't sell unless it's to the right person.
a series of feet only go so far. you can sell to people with a fetish, who make or sell shoes, people who think walking is healthy, etc. and the description should mirror that. you can explain the life of the shoe in the city, and tell people it would make a great gift for a cobbler
this only shows the crane, it's often more interesting to see the rest of the background. but i'm wondering who would hang it? they are cool machines, but they have a very limited audience. around where i live they kind of look like dinosaurs.
the reason this sells is because it's not only a life around here thing, but something you don't normally see. snow and night. it also grabs the eye with the white. and it's generic enough to fit into different homes, as it tells a story, but a story of life.
i didn't know mimes did ship work... anyway the ones you sold all tell a story. just a basic story. that's why they sell.
but then you have nature shots that don't really tell a story and many are in black and white or not quite in focus - while it might be your artistic intent, people may not follow the reasoning.
i shoot many things i don't care much for, but i do them because i know it sells. and i'm not tossing my artistic side away for doing them. as i find a theme that works well i make more of that theme. so if you have other shots of those mimes, put more up, same with the winter scenes. after a while you'll show up higher in the search and you can add more etc. your looking mostly to make images that catch the eye and hold it there. when you look at other people's images, what do you look for? was it color, black and white? was it a landscape? something else. chances are if you liked that shot, someone else will, then compare it to your own and see if it has that same depth.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Good information--thanks Mike. By the way, I'm curious...is that a picture of you? It looks old-tyme :) kinda cool!
11 Years Ago
in twitter and such look for people under certain words. like i'll look for steampunk, doctor, etc, then friend them and hope they friend back. it takes a while.
as for my picture, the face is mine, the rest is photoshop. my facebook page has me on it. https://www.facebook.com/mike.savad i made up the image as a joke a while ago, but since it matches my work i keep it. it's now my signature in some images and it's now on my card.
New card business card by suburbanscenes
Make your own business cards online at Zazzle.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
it's worth a shot anyway. there are many on twitter that will just follow you back - so they can build their numbers really high. but it's better to target. but you can only follow 1999 people on twitter until they start following you back. and then it's like a 10% ratio or something.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Awesome post, Mike! Thanks for taking the time to share all that very helpful information!
11 Years Ago
It's a long read, and you might already know some of it, but if you are interested in selling your work it's well worth your time to read it.
11 Years Ago
Although I wouldn't be so quick to toss stuff out the airlock as Mike suggests in some situation I think this is a really great post. The only thing I would strongly add to it, for those serious about improving at least their technical skills, is try submitting your photos/paintings to a microstock photo agency, where there are people, sometimes infuriating to be sure, who will be very blunt about the quality of your work. And when your done, you'll have a whole new language of short-hand burned into your brain, like OOF to go along with your LOL's. ;o)
And I would have to say one of the most satisfying aspects of fine art photography is how the proper framing of image as Mike describes can completely change someone's impression of an image.
If I had included anything just left of what you see in this image, it completely destroys the story and character of the shot. ;o)
11 Years Ago
this is a fantastic post Mike......I really appreciate that you took the time to share this with all of us. The thing you said about family and friends is usually true....although for me, my father is my worst critic and is always quick to tell me if he there is something that he doesn't like and why....but no hard feelings here. He is most always right and it helps me to view my own work with a more critical eye.
Thanks again for a great post.
11 Years Ago
@tara - it sounds like he's a good critic. a good one will tell you why they don't like it. a bad one will pat you on the head and say how nice it is.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
But yet I have seen many mediocre photos that have blown, overexposed areas, blurry, etc., that get sold! So what is the answer?
11 Years Ago
that may be so, however you don't know the story behind that sale. it could have been to a relative, a friend, etc. and then again, it's up to the buyer to decide whether a shot is good or not. i've seen some crazy things sell. but i'm only seeing the sale, not the buyer. ideally you'll sell more if the images are well done.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Thanks for the post Mike, Really really practical information in it. I do agree so much with you about family and friends being bad critics.
I'm nervously awaiting feedback from a Lady who asked me to photograph her 60th birthday party. She asked me to do it based on shots she had seen of some gigs I did and posted on my face book page here http://www.facebook.com/TonyReddingtonPhotography/photos_stream
It was one of my first paying jobs, so hopefully she likes them.
I think I can take constructive criticism from outside sources fairly well, but for some reason I have a hard time taking criticism for some of my darkroom prints, they are much more personal to me.
When I have some more images on here I might ask you to take a look. In the meantime I'm off to edit and re edit some if my shots. with your post inbeded in my brain.
11 Years Ago
So if I read your post right Mike,basically everything I shoot needs to be thrown out the window.Ah well back to the drawing board
11 Years Ago
remove what you think should be removed, or shoot it with a story in mind. removing distraction so people can focus just on what you want them to focus on. like the story might be about the pelican with the fish in it's mouth, and not the drunk on the bench, in which case you would try to angle it so you see the bird or use some natural frame to remove the guy. it's stuff like that.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Hi Mike,
Thanks so much for your article. It is really helpful. Will try to figure out how to edit raw images. My color is off all the time and my photos are grainy.
11 Years Ago
grainy photos usually means the iso is too high, or your shooing scenes that are too dark, since the noise hides in the shadow. in raw the color will always look a little off because it doesn't add saturation and such. but it helps to have a calibrated monitor. if your shooting in jpg and the colors are off, your either using the wrong white balance, or the auto is washing it out. usually the colors are flat in auto white, and custom white per scene is better. but if you shoot in raw, you can adjust all of that later.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Is it my imagination, or is grain finer in digital than it was with film? I've taken photos at 1600 iso because I didn't want to drag out the tripod, and the grain, though present, is fine and not unattractive...when I used to shoot 800 iso film, I hated the results. The grain was really ugly...
11 Years Ago
there is no grain in digital, just noise, and that varies per camera. and by film type. like when i was copying old film stuff from my grandfather, the lack of up close detail was astounding.
but in the end it all varies depending on the camera and film used at the time. it's funny though, that people will comment on film grain, as a good thing. but camera noise, as a bad thing. that one never made any sense to me.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Well, yes, technically - there can't be grain because there is no emulsion or silver involved, but you know what I mean. I guess I should say, the iso 1600 digital camera noise seems less apparent and "blocky" than high iso film shots. Even my point and shoot at 3200 iso looks better than my old, 800 iso film shots.
11 Years Ago
people used to say that film was better than digital, but digital far surpassed the quality a while ago. then they decided that medium format was the comparison, but even that's beat out. and an unfair comparison because not everyone shoots on film that size. now they can't compare, because they don't make film. most things now look better then film, and it just gets cleaner and cleaner.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
My son still makes fun of me because years ago, I swore I would never go digital. We bought one of the first primitive digital cameras at work a long time ago. It was outrageously expensive, looked like a Polaroid instamatic camera, and I think it was 2 megapixles....I think I gave it away to someone when we moved 3 years ago. Or maybe I threw it out....
11 Years Ago
LOL. come on Mike.
In order for digital to compare to quality of medium format, you have to spend thousands on a DSLR!!
Try comparing at the same price point.
There is nothing in a DSLR, at the $6-800 level, that comes close to image quality of a medium format camera.
Someone can get a decent 645 SLR or even a 6x9 rangefinder for less than $600 (including some great sharp lenses with that price). To get the same quality, you would have to spend $3K or more in the digital world. Add on top of that the high price for quality glass and you are looking at $4-5K.
120 film is still readily available online, from photography retailers. B&H and Adoramma, are the two big ones. A roll of 120 film can be purchased and processed for less than $15. I could purchase and process a roll of film every week, for 5 years, before spending the $4K a person would have to in the DSLR world (to get the same quality). Before 5 years is up, the digital person is upgrading to the latest and greatest, while the film guy can still enjoy the same great IQ from the same camera, for another 5 years.
11 Years Ago
we are just talking about sensors and that's it, not the cost. it's the technology we are speaking of. we are also not talking about clarity, just noise overall. you don't have to spend thousands for a decent lens, most good ones start at $300-600. i would never spend more than that. yes they can get sharper, but i only have so much...
after you buy the film, you have to keep buying it. to sell it here or anywhere, you need it scanned. and then we are back to quality issues, even if it was done professionally. i don't see the advantage to film at all. 35mm is not comparable any more.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Thank you Mike,
I will try adjusting the iso and the white balance. Even shooting outside at noon on a summer day my whites still turned out grey and uneven in the photos. There was another post about using photo lamps for taking photos of your work here, but I have to save up for some before I can try that. Regular bulbs make the work look yellow. Thanks again, your advice is invaluable. :)
11 Years Ago
if you shoot in incandescent, make sure to set the camera to that mode, or use a white card and get the white off of that. use a sheet as a diffuser to make your own softbox. same with the sun, set it to sun or shade if that's where your standing. but if possible, buy a scanner and scan the work in, then everything should look better and will be easier to do.
oh and whites will always underexpose due to glare. overexpose your shots that will make the whites whiter.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Thanks again Mike,
Scanner washes out the paintings and it is too small for most of my work. Will try the sheets.
Happy New Years and all the best in 2013!
Kim Bird
11 Years Ago
the downsides to the scanner are:
it uses only certain color profiles, and you have to edit it afterwards, but if you have photoshop, or really any program and look for a gray source (something that is white or black) you can hit that with the grey dropper in levels for example and many of the colors will come back.
but mostly it flattens the painting, you don't get the depth. and in my scanner while it does have a decent focus range, also distorts it a bit. i took flat gears and made them all lean a bit because i scanned them in. not the intended effect though.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Mike i read the whole page and want to thank you for writing it and the way you wrote it. I would call it the ABC'S of photography or Photography 101. I think you made many very good points in an understandable way that i am sure will help many including myself. Have you got any references here or anywhere else as to how you make your images in photoshop?And what i mean are your HDR's such as the one above with the man and the inside of the factories? Again thank you Mike!
11 Years Ago
Really nice post Mike. One thing I like about you is that you cut to the point and tell it like it is. This is one of the most in depth posts on this site that I have seen so far. Thanks for the tips.
11 Years Ago
This is all great advice but I think another good point is know what kind of artist you are or want to be. Don't over saturate your profile with so many different styles and subject matters. That only confuses your potential clients and yourself as to who you are trying to cater to. Also if you dabble in so many specific styles you are preventing yourself from improving the particular style you are most passionate about. Sure I have a couple wildlife shots in my portfolio, which is why I call myself a nature and landscape photographer, and a couple Blue angels pictures, but 95% is dedicated to landscapes. That is what I am most passionate about. Don't just shoot anything and everything just so you have something to upload. If there is a period of time you don't have any new work to present then so be it. During my dry times, usually the winter, I go back through my crap photos (and I do have a lot of them) and try to see if thee is anything I might be able to work with. Sometimes, although rarely, I find something. For example I just found some Niagara Falls pictures on my hard drive that at first look I didn't think I could do anything with but this time I tried a few things with them and I think they basically turned out pretty decent. I am extremely hard on myself and only want to show what I think is my best stuff. That is why I only have 3 pages of work, which isn't much compared to the amount of pictures a lot of people have on their profiles. And I just deleted a few that I didn't think belonged and am considering deleting a few more. Truth be known, I think all my stuff sucks when I see some of the things I am up against. My point is take a little pride in your work and don't degrade your self by showing subpar work. Be the best you can be at your craft and show only your best. And always keep trying to get better and learn more. No such thing as being good enough.
11 Years Ago
http://www.suburbanscenes.com this is the general primer how i make my things, but it's old, and i haven't updated to the latest things.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Mike, i have bookmarked the link and i want to thank you once again for taking your time to educate and share. I have loved the way you HDR's look from the very first one that i saw!
Mark- (Don't over saturate your profile with so many different styles and subject matters.)-That just ain't me! I find that one subject somehow links to another and by being diverse allows me more knowledge of my passion, photography and the tools i use.I know this is like breaking some rule and i love to do that, i do understand for someone starting into this it is important to grasp the basics including subject matter and such but i think Mike has covered all that well. This is Mikes thread but just wanted you to know how i feel about it. personally.
11 Years Ago
I wasn't referring to you Thom. I was just saying that it is a good idea for an artist to stick to what they are best at and enjoy doing the most.
11 Years Ago
Thanks Mike, reading all this was just what I needed. new a lot of this but was in denial, sinking in now and has me inspired to dig deeper for the art.
11 Years Ago
Great information Mike appreciate all the info, I have been taking photos for 51 years, and I have had a natural sense, but there is something in each and everyone of us when we view through the viewfinder, I have always asked is this a quality snapshot or a quality photo, instinct you learn and distinguish between the two., I am sure I can say all of us admire all the effort you have taken with you presentation.....Michael Hoard
11 Years Ago
Everyone has there own individuality when it comes to creativity, what you achieve from it is all that matters. We all create in one way or another either thought the arts, music, etc. all one can do is strive to perfect, though nothing is perfect we just strive to perfect it. When I view your masterful works of art, it signifies the genius with in you.....Thanks again Michael
11 Years Ago
Mike, have you considered creating a blog for all the valuable information, I have not checked to see if you have one or not....
11 Years Ago
Mike, have you considered creating a blog for all the valuable information, I have not checked to see if you have one or not....
11 Years Ago
i'm not so much into blogs. once you start one, people expect you to add to it constantly. it becomes a new unpaid job.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
Thank you very much Mike!
You are a masterly, not only for your art painting, for the emotions that arise from your work, for the impeccable technique...you are masterly for the advice you give and for what you say.
My most sincere compliments.
Giuseppe
11 Years Ago
you know, i started reading the opening post last night before bed.
BIG mistake.
i was hooked for ages.
great work, mike!
11 Years Ago
before bed is best, the sub conscience works well then. and it should all be in the back of your head now... and if you can't sleep, you can try counting ducks.
---Mike Savad
11 Years Ago
I didn't read what was in the "big skip" but I do want to point out that as someone previously mentioned, cars and their names, symbols, etc are subject to TM laws. I see a LOT of pics here that I wouldn't want in my shop if Ford, Chevy, etc's lawyers came calling. I spoke to one of the legal folks over at Ford a few years back about car images. Basically, the take away is, you can sell images to the OWNER of the car, but not in general. Yes, even if it's your car. google BMC calender Cafepress if you want an example of one of the few ways you can still sell images, but also as a cautionary tale of what can happen if the lawyers come calling. We have some car images, and work extremely hard to present them as both art, automotive AND abstract enough so that unless you're a super mega major enthusiast you won't know the make/model, etc (and even then I'm not sure if you would know for certain). It also applies to certain structures and including brand names in images (Coke, Disney, etc).
Oh, and I love trees for framing. and I am guilty of "omg this is the best most amazing pretty scene ever" and not really taking a picture of SOMETHNG instead of everything. I forget my anchors.
Very nice write up btw. You're right about friends and family. Even if you BEG for honesty, don't expect it. My mom had training in photography and used to do quite a bit of it when I was younger and I *STILL* can't get an honest review from her. Makes me crazy.
Of course, if you ask for a critique...be prepared for one and take it for what it is-someone taking their time to help you improve your art. Heck, I don't think there's one person, alive or dead, that shoots pics that can't improve SOMETHING.
Lastly...snapshots...while generally speaking they are bad, there is still Lomography, so...yeah. And to think I tossed a cheap plastic camera that leaked light like a sieve.
11 Years Ago
LOL Mike. You had me at "... it might be due to your work being so horrible." Thank you for the post very helpful for us beginners and maybe some veterans too.
11 Years Ago
personally I feel that one can overfilter their photograph so much that it just loses it's appeal to me.. so I guess some advice to people is to not to take too much of the naturalism out of your shot :)
11 Years Ago
Deep bow for your work and all the time separated to write this article! I really hope many will read it carefully and try to take some out of it!
11 Years Ago
Excellent posting Mike, very in depth and informative, and I will be bookmarking this thread also.
11 Years Ago
If its easy to get a great shot - like beach shots, sunsets, flowers then expect a lot of competition. Sure these images sell but there are thousands of them! On the list of what not to upload - shots out the airplane window, pictures of your feet, and overly HDRed, overly saturated, highly pixelated shots from an old point and shoot camera, boring shots, pictures of Elk that used to be in the picture. I see so many sunset pictures - think about it - EVERYONE has a great sunset picture already! They don't need one from a stranger.
11 Years Ago
Mike,
Thank you for sharing your time and expertise with us. I do not think your post was too long it was so interested I thought i would bookmark it and read later. Well I sat down with a cup of coffee and read it all. It has helped me a lot and I have a lot of clearing out to do, Lots of dusting and polishing and deleting. Top post and thanks so much for sharing.
Nalini - Do Not Activate Account Pitigala
11 Years Ago
Thank you mike for help..and important hints...!
10 Years Ago
Yes, an enjoyable and informative read. Sometimes we need to be reminded...take a step back and listen..even if you have heard it all before...you forget and fall back into bad habits...repetetition can be painstaking...but i think you did a good thing here..:)
10 Years Ago
Very informative and interesting, Mike. One thing that bugs me to no end, which you've mentioned, are crooked horizons. That's a big pet peeve of mine.
10 Years Ago
Thanks for putting all this together and sharing with us Mike.
Very helpful and food for reflection !
Ankya
10 Years Ago
So, basically I should stop fishing with Old Ski Nose even though someone complimented it? The sky all jacked up and though the idea in general is cool with the carrier in the background I know this is not something I would buy. I should simply go shoot this one over and be more technically sound with the camera. I think a lot of newbies see certain items sell that we know are not technically sound and believe ours will sell too, maybe! lol And compliments sometimes make it worse I think. I think some of us know and either we are not fully invested (lazy) and wanna take some short cuts or simply view it like a lottery and hope someone bites eventually. I can only speak for myself. I am not very good at photoshop and all that stuff so I need to focus on getting it right as much as I can in the camera. And a lot of stuff I have on here now was taken when I did not even think I would be trying to sell anything so a lot of more like snapshots. Great post!
10 Years Ago
Thanks Mike for your wonderful explanations--I am a photographer and completely agree with everything you said! The one thing I would add that relates to the photo posted above by Craig as a sample. The processing of the photo can be more important (sometimes) than how one takes it. A bad snapshot can become a great photo if care is taken in processing and a great photo can be bad if one does the processing wrong.
If you look at the photo Craig posted above "Old Ski Nose", I see what in photographer jargon we call "over cooked". That is if you look closely, there is a white halo around the figure. The photo may be just right--that is a taste question--but the technique of processing is not right--this is objective and some rules need to be followed in the processing techniques.
Rule number 1: know when to stop editing.
I hope this is a constructive addition to Mike's wonderful write-up and is not taken as an unnecessary critic of Craig's photo, which is not what it is intended to be.
10 Years Ago
Angela,
No foul and I posted it as an example. The little devil on my shoulder whispered even before I opened the editing software. lol My frustration personally is I spend 600 bucks on a camera and another 300 for a lens. Why do I need to spend 600 or however much it cost for the Photoshop license? Or even if I master gimp which is free. I think in my opinion it starts with the original photograph. If I can get it as close as I can within the very basics of exposure and composition then the editing will be easier. I think the marketing of these cameras have made us lazy and dependent upon technology. For the price we pay for the equipment one would think editing would be minimal. I even saw a plug in for photoshop that advertised for 200 bucks. Are you serious? For a plug in to an already expensive software package? Mike has mastered his signature look and I don't even have to look at his name when I see one of his photos. Most beginners like myself are just that- beginning and it may not even turn into a money making venture. It may just become a step above photo hobby- photo enthusiast. My goal is to take great photos first! Thanks for your post.
10 Years Ago
You are very right Craig. Good pictures first!
My camera did not cost me $600 but more like $4000 + lens... so combined over $6000 and I have 2 cameras and 7 lenses... but then I am a professional photographer. I agree: if you "nail" the shot, you have nothing to edit. When I shoot a wedding, I only sharpen and correct for lens distortion, which is included in Lightroom and takes 5 minutes for 2000 photos. But those are not necessarily "art photos". What Mike described above--and all his pictures indeed--are art photos!
I give you here two examples from my set of photos on FAA to show you what I mean.
Here is a perfectly exposed and not even touched (only sharpened and lens corrected) photo that is NOT artistic but is professional:
and here is one that is also untouched and is professional but is also artistic:
None meet the quality of "true art" the way Mike described it and neither has a "mood" but the second one if artistic.
And here is one that actually is published by Nat Geo but is nothing special, only great artistic positioning but again, no edit:
But they all lack that warmth that I see in Mike's pictures. They are great photos but they are not "art" the way Mike's photos are. But I agree that any of these can be made into art photos if I wanted to fuss with them--I don't have the time... maybe in a few years. :)
But given that Mike has such great explanation but not much in technique in terms of the camera, I am glad to help anyone in that area if you have questions! I am a techie so feel free to ask!
10 Years Ago
Angela,
I will never complain about the price of my camera ever again! lol This is one I barely touched right out of camera. Would like to darken the rocks "only" but I am not there yet.
10 Years Ago
to darken rocks you can use curves, levels, even a brush set to overlay, soft light, vivid light, etc. though i would brighten the lake a bit personally. good cameras are expensive, my last camera cost like $3000, i only use one lens for everything which was a little over $600, and i wouldn't call it a super awesome lens but it fits my needs.
the camera captures the image, so you need a good camera and a good lens for optimal results. you need to know what your doing as well. photoshop lets you refine it, so you have to be good in everything. when doing HDR's and such like above, you don't want those halo's. and because your image started as a jpg and was blown out in the background anyway, there was little saving to do. ideally tonemapping should be left to a real hdr, not the fake kind.
i can't say i didn't touch these, but they are a single shot. the back one isn't, but there wasn't enough usable data to really be of any use.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
@Mike,
Nikon told me I had a good camera! lol Marketing- they have it down to a science since I upgraded from a D-40! Knowledge is power. No need to buy an automatic Porsche, is there? I am starting to ignore the automatic functions and it appears I am getting better results.
10 Years Ago
i'm sure the camera is fine. each camera has it's own thing.
i shot this with a pocket camera, though i did clean it up and enhance it a bit.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
I think even an iPhone can take great pictures today but you do need a lot of technical knowledge to achieve that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you Nikon but everything wrong with taking JPEGs. Not sure if you know the full difference between JPEGs and raw but in real short: Jpeg created in camera compresses the color shades as much as possible. So a green grass and a slightly different shade of green patch within will all be the same green. Once the shade and color is squeezed out like this, nothing but a painter's brush can bring that back.
By contrast in raw the camera takes pictures as computer code. A code cannot be compressed as a code. So when you upload to your computer, all colors, shades and tones will be in the code. I use Lightroom to first run through my images because it is quicker than Photoshop and yield 300ppi and in 16 bit tiff if that is what I want--and for landscapes and still life that is what I want. Photoshop defaults to 240ppi and 8 bit, which looses a bit of detail. Also Lightroom is cheaper and you can apply your changes to one photo to all photos in one click and 1 minute.
For HDR I use software outside of photoshop and Lightroom.
As for getting your rocks darker, if you have Lightroom, there is no need even to tinker with the tone curve. You have sliders for highlights that behind the scene do the technology and all you see is darker lights and only the lights. Hope this help. Sorry for typos if any. iPad likes to change my words.
10 Years Ago
By the way Mike, your photos remind me of Rembrandt. If he had a camera today, he would be your competition. :)
10 Years Ago
maybe, but i'm pretty sure if he was alive today, he would still be a painter.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
Angela,
Thanks for the info. Not sure why I am not tinkering with the raw images I have. Will definitely look at the ones I have side by side with the JPEG's. I used to shoot raw plus Jpeg. Plus I need to reload windows 8 or maybe even 7 on this computer. It won't allow me to add anything from adobe. I had purchased Elements and was going to purchase Lightroom but could not download the trial version to this computer. The other computer with the Elements is about to die and too slow these days. Tried troubleshooting to no avail. I am not a techie. So, I had been using Zoner software which I found on www.cnet.com it has some of the same lingo etc. but learning how to use it is the problem. But adobe would be better because of the support from users etc plus they are not going out of business anytime soon.
10 Years Ago
you can't compare raw and jpg side by side. they will look the same, or the raw will look a little worse. raw has more information than jpgs but you can't see that with your eye.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
@Mike, Thanks for the info. So its basically something you will only know when editing in Photoshop etc?
10 Years Ago
yeah, a raw file will hold something like 10-14 bits of data, where as jpg its only 8. i think every 2 bits doubles the last number or something. so if you have an image that looks like it's blown out, there is a chance you have much more detail in there than meets the eye. while you'll still have shadow noise there is still detail in the shadow, the above image in the center - vito's deli, the center was so dark i didn't even know there was a person there. i did have to clean it up, but there was data there. raw doesn't add white balance, contrast, or sharpening either.
in the case of the 5dmkiii - the jpgs look terrible because of aggressive noise cleaning. but in raw it's savable because you have control over it. however the raw is HUGE, in my case they avg about 25-50megs a piece. where as jpg is about 10meg if that. so it takes up more space, but an image is far more savable.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
@Mike,
I just read Angela's message about this for a second time also. Makes sense. Thanks. The difference of say buying your ground beef patty fresh ground and grilling it yourself or picking up one from McDonald's. lol Much more control on my grill and minimal options special ordering at McDonald's.
10 Years Ago
Good example Craig with the burger! I also have the 5D Mark III from Canon and the raw files are huge. But huge files mean more info per file. Just make sure you have enough external hard drives for storage and also trash test shots, etc. this camera has 2 card slots so I take raw on one and jpeg on the other. In-camera jpeg conversion is awful. At least if you have your raw and without any edit you convert to jpeg, you have a tad more control.
As for the computer, I have win 7 on my desktop and 8 on the laptop and both accepted photoshop and Lightroom. Something must be up with your registry. You may have to reformat.
For those of you taking HDR, you need to be sure to cover the darkest of the dark and the lightest of the light end if your histograms to get all the details. Some people take many exposures and believe in having 5 or 7. I personally prefer to only take 3 since in raw I capture all tones in between so more than 3 would be redundant. But you need to have your histogram view turned in to be sure you covered all darks and lights. :)
10 Years Ago
Congrats on your many sales yesterday Mike. I consider those "case and point" as the value of your critic! Thanks a million! I am working hard to achieve that uniqueness!
10 Years Ago
lol at the part about family and friends up on top blog. Its the trueth.
I kinda hate the word it's good, when I know for a fact there is something missing
10 Years Ago
Thanks Mike and everyone else for their informative input. Wish I had found this discussion when I initially joined as I think I now need to look at the shots I have already downloaded and probably removed them. I have used Raw in the past but didn't really understand why it should be used for good quality prints. Now I get it and will go back to using raw. Thanks again from a newbie.
10 Years Ago
"5. No one is interested in a picture of you and your girlfriend. No one wants to see your family reunion. No one cares about uncle Floyd or Aunt Edna at the pool. Save those for home or facebook."
This gave me the best chuckle of the day - So who is going to break the news to poor Aunt Edna and Uncle Floyd? I have visions of hundreds of people now going through their galleries deleting all their family members!
The comment about straight horizons was drummed into me after working in magazine publishing for umpteen years. I lost count the number of times I had to berate a designer to STRAIGHTEN UP! :)
Great advice. Great gallery
10 Years Ago
it amazes me how many will take a picture of the ocean and not straighten it. i've seen water tilted at like 40degrees. buildings leaning so much they should have fallen by now. picture of every family member but usually their own kid. then they wonder why they aren't making sales... well if they saw someones family, kid etc - would they want to buy it for their home? no. why would anyone? many just dump things in as filler and they should never do that.
and not all images taken with a camera is interesting. it's like the most boring people with cameras take pictures and show what they shot on a walk - like it's the most amazing thing you could ever see.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
I suppose we can forgive anyone who tries to straighten up the leaning tower of Piza though :D
10 Years Ago
Mike - I'm still fairly new to the forums, but I like your comments and help here. Thanks for being such a great resource.
10 Years Ago
Great info.... I always love reading about how to become a better photographer/artist. thank you A+++++ from me
------Steven Brodhecker
10 Years Ago
Mike, maybe you covered this in another thread or I missed it in the skip, but would you describe your HDR techniques in general terms? Do you do it in PS, in camera, or?
It's hard to be objective about one's own photos (landscapes of a favorite place, for instance) because of the memories they evoke. Important to try to disengage and look at them as someone who has never been there and has no emotional connection.
10 Years Ago
thanks Mike for this! very interesting & your input to any newcomer is very valuable :-)
10 Years Ago
http://www.suburbanscenes.com has my general hdr methods. their a bit dated, but it covers it a bit.
in general to critiques one's own work, you have to break off any emotional connection. it might be easier for me because i don't really have any emotions or nothing that i connect with. when i'm out on a day trip or vacation, i'm not there to have a good time. heck no. i'm there to work. to get in pictures. to get so many in fact that i don't really remember being there because my camera is glued to my face. i only remember it through the sequence of images i took.
you will have a connection to those images for a while, so it's best to edit only what really moves you then forget about them for a while, go back to them. forget you took them and look at the image objectively. you have a landscape of mountains (as an example), you have it from the right, the left, below, above, in the center, at night, in the morning, evening, etc - it's the view from the hotel, and because of that it was easy to shoot it at all times of day. but you have like 40 views now. and you have to decide what is the best.
the day shots are nice but not as interesting as the evening, morning or night shots, so you can cast those off (remove from the edit directory, don't erase it from the back up unless it's really blurred or something). the nigh shot is nice, but you can't see the stars, and it's not as well lit as you thought. so out that goes. leaving you with sunset and sunrise. sunrise has a misty look so that is something you'll want to edit. and sunset has the sun just over the mountains and the light is really nice. so you choose one of those.
because you took many, you'll choose the center shot of the mountains with the mist rolling in. and an evening shot of a late day sun, casting a strong sun beam across a field of flowers. etc.
you have to eliminate the bad stuff.
in my case i have to eliminate things in the scene that add confusion. so i'll take out all the things that don't belong. that's a part of critiquing your own stuff. telling yourself that this image isn't that great because..... it's crooked, it's busy, too much going on that doesn't relate to the story. it doesn't tell the story, the colors are weak, the people in the image have a bad expression. and just look at it like it was someone else's shot. it's best to start with other people's things though. when someone asks for a critique - give it to them. you'll find you can apply the same info to your own stuff.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
Thank you Mike. I am a beginner here on this site and this information is very helpful. Thank you for sharing it with us.
10 Years Ago
". Sunsets only look good to when your there." Mike Savad.
Marketing speak, yes, like the Siemen's ad, but your usage is better-great line,funny and so true!
10 Years Ago
Ask yourself if the photograph is simply making a record of something (a document) or if it is telling a story. Its no different than any other art form. Like Mike says, some images jump out as ready to go, while other images need to sit and peculate and be called in to play when you have a certain story in mind to tell.
More on photography art vs document:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/ansel/sfeature/sf_role.html
10 Years Ago
Nice, Mike. But it won't prevent truly bad photographs from being posted, nor reduce the number of sad posts asking "why am I not selling?". Affordable digital photography, and post processing software, has opened the floodgates of the mundane, the tedious, the garish and the just really poor. Today, anyone can call themselves a "fine artist", with a minimum of effort, and it diminishes us all. I've looked for inspiration at FAA, but the reality is that its 90% classically bad photography. You can't paint a bad picture pretty. I pity those who shop here. Lesson learned? Find other venues to put your best work out to the public.
10 Years Ago
nothing will prevent anything. but bad stuff doesn't sell, and it doesn't sell because it's bad and that's why i set this thread up.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
Thanks Mike,
You made the comment:
"you will have a connection to those images for a while, so it's best to edit only what really moves you then forget about them for a while, go back to them. forget you took them and look at the image objectively"
When I go on vacation I go with the primary goal of great pictures. It is so true that when you first review your images, there are emotions attached and it is difficult to separate yourself and be objective. One of my first jobs is to delete anything bad - as you have described early on. Next I tag what resonates with me and save it a copy elsewhere. I may add to the name but never change what the camera named it. Then I can always find the original more easily. Then I get so weary of reviewing so many images (sometimes I miss film and how it made me take fewer images) that I burn out for a while. Hopefully by now I have pulled all images I want to share with friends and created a slide show or something. The break allows me to get back to normal activities for a while so that I am more disconnected from the event and I can look more critically at my work.
There was no way I was going to read this entire thread so I apologize if someone already mentioned this but depending on the image, some bad images (blur, unwanted elements, etc) can be saved with cloning followed by the use filters to remove the image from the realm of photography to art. Not always, but sometimes.
Yes, sunsets are generally enjoyed in person, not so much in picture, unless as you have mentioned, the other elements would be a great picture alone but are now Awsome with the sunset. I have take many "Awesome Sunset Shots", only to be disappointed on the screen at home.
A couple of my own favourites with textures applied and some colour management. I guess the real question is, Are these any good or am I missing the boat. Constructive comments welcome.
10 Years Ago
I typically come back from vacation with the typical boat load of images, scan for what I think I remember to be the great ones, only to discover the truly good ones are typically ones I forgot about and those super ones I thought I had are bad for some reason - out of focus or just boring.
I'll sort through - some are family snapshots for sharing, some are microstock quality, some are fine art canidates and some are simply elements for future projects. I'll revisit these images time and time again. I might even file a few away in the old noggin for future purposes.
What I don't do is post every freakin' photo that I took or bore people to death by showing them endless unedited image. I have some relatives who consider putting 300 images into a slide show with 25 different transitions and a looped pop song "entertainment".
I might put something like 5% of my images into a Shutterfly book and then show that.
10 Years Ago
I like that Ocean Sunset above. But as a buyer I'd want to buy it if I knew the place. You don't say where it is so a buyer can't find it.
Now here is a truly amazing sunset shot -
10 Years Ago
I can't agree more. When I first started into photography (still just a hobby), I was told this same wise advice. It should be printed on the first page of the user manual for every device that can take a picture.
10 Years Ago
Yes that is a wonderful shot. I see your point regarding location. It made me revisit the Ocean Sunset and put an approximate location in the notes. These are my first images being offered anywhere for sale and I appreciated the input. I will do the same for all my images. I now have a GPS for my Canon, but how important is an exact location to buyers?
Also, I came across this one in my travels tonight:
10 Years Ago
Forgive me but I have seen this in a couple of posts and being a newbie I don't know what "bump" means. Can you enlighten me?
10 Years Ago
its like a fist bump.... go santa.
bump means to push my thread up at the top where it should be so i can squeeze some more exposure out of google and get some sales from it.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
technically i made this faq to help out people. if i get something out of it beyond that, that's good too...
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
Well that list would keep this thread going indefinitely. At 105 I don't think I have enough time left for that.
10 Years Ago
You can see that I have always framed my photos. Not all of them, but when I have the chance to I usually do.
10 Years Ago
Also remember that everybody should CALIBRATE their computer screens often...to ensure the color is correct. I have had prints in the past come out wayyyy too saturated..and kept wondering why they were coming out bad. The problem was my computer screen needed calibrating. Not only can it help with editing your own photos, but will allow you to view other peoples work correctly.
10 Years Ago
That's the one I have. You would be surprised how off the color can be after just a couple months.
10 Years Ago
Thanks so much for posting these FAQs and tips Mike, it's much appreciated. Even though I'm a digital painter/illustrator, these words have made me re-think and re-evaluate my works, and now I'm able to see my art in my usual way - in a third perspective. Thank you again, and I hope you have a pleasant day.
10 Years Ago
Mr. S...
Thanks for this. Let me have your mailing address so I can send you the check you just earned. Name your fee. Money is no object.
10 Years Ago
Mike, this has obviously been out there for a while, but I just saw it. Thank you - a lot of great advice. Hope you don't mind I copied it to read thoroughly at a later time.
Inge
10 Years Ago
Glad this was bumped. I read this yesterday while in the midst of researching on FAA.
Excellent Mike. Thank you!
10 Years Ago
I'm fairly new to FAA but I've been a fan of Mike Savad from day one,as a so called painter ,I had hardly given photographs a second glance,hell even I can take a photo.WRONG! Photos ain't photography that's a medium Mike is a master of.What I'm getting at here is if your a painter and want to be a better one read his post a lot of his sharing of experience and knowledge applies to us as well as photographers.Thanks Mike.And by the way if you haven't already,check out Agoes Antara.
10 Years Ago
amazing information thank you for taking the time for all of us, your the best Mike I have learned that the hard way. BUMP
10 Years Ago
there can be an argument for everything. but more likely, good work sells better than bad. and quite often bad has a following only because someone made it a trend. it's no different then ugly fashion ideas.
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
So true the points you make. Thank you for taking the time to post. I find your points helpful.
10 Years Ago
Hi Mike,
I am new to FAA and have around 50 + pictures so far.
I love reading your reviews and how to point and honest you are.
Thank you,
Kathleen Sartoris
10 Years Ago
some people like the honesty, others oddly mistake it for something else...
thanks
---Mike Savad
10 Years Ago
Thanks Mike alot of good information that I hope to use to become a better photographer
10 Years Ago
Thanks for the advice Mike. Looks like I need to do some spring cleaning. I always enjoy your comments/discussions & try to read as many as I can. You have a lot of knowledge that you are more than willing to share. It helps. Thanks.
9 Years Ago
Thank you Mike for taking time to write this. It is all great information and I plan on studying it more in-depth. I really do appreciate it.
9 Years Ago
Just posting for adding to follow this discussion later, thanx! Is it not possible to move a discussion to the follow tab without posting?
9 Years Ago
yeah, i think at the top you can hit follow this...or i think their used to be. but it can still scoot off the page.
---Mike Savad
9 Years Ago
Thank you, Mike. I have become much more critical of my own art. When it is boring I leave it out, or I keep it as "stock" if it's good enough--in focus, colors, cropped and presented well, but the subject is, well, just a "stock, photo of a flower cart, for example. I don't have the luxury of PhotoShop or any other really great editor programs, yet. I see others' shots and wonder how they do it--so I ask. You give great advice. I am slowly (maybe I better move more quickly!) taking out shots that, though I love, no one else does. I'll save them for facebook or email!
Kathy Barney
9 Years Ago
Great stuff Mike, but a video would help all of us old blind folks...had to clean my glasses three times ;)
9 Years Ago
you could try braille, but it might damage the screen. a video wouldn't really be worth my time. and i don't much like seeing myself on the screen or hearing my own voice.
---Mike Savad
9 Years Ago
Good information, Mike. Thank you.
BTW - this is the second thread "bumped up" this morning that originated long before I got here. Old, maybe - but still very relevant. Worthwhile posts like this should be in a repository somewhere - for all the new members to easily find/see.
~ Bill
~ USPictures.com
9 Years Ago
i keep losing this on my watched page. one of these was totally gone. so i bump them every now and then. plus there are lots of new people. i think these are in abbies great list of links. sometimes known as - the greatest hits. well actually it never was, only my stuff was the great parts.
---Mike Savad
9 Years Ago
Hi Mike, Thank you for all of your words of advice, you made some excellent points. I would only add one small piece, some valuable advice a teacher of mine gave me, that is, when you look at one of your galleries (portfolios), lets say you have 10 photos in it....3-4 of them are of a the standard you are striving for and the other 6-7 are not of the same caliber....here is the good advice, dump those 6 and then go about creating photos to the same caliber as the first few that you chose. When you leave them in there, you are just watering down the entire collection. I have seen this often....and of course I am guilty as well! I am working on it though!
I had no idea about statues being off limits. I love taking photos of statues too...but since I read what you said about it, I removed my gallery. Are there any exceptions?
I also went though all of my photos again trying to keep in mind your pointers, I am always looking to eliminate my weak shots!
I like your work...based on the comments though, I am thinking you might want to go with the nickname curmudgeon... ;-)
cheers!
9 Years Ago
it depends on the age of the statue. a statue is art, and like any art it has a copyright. it's just more of a pain to find the artist. many think that just because its out in the open its ok to use. if the statue is over 70 years old, or is it 70 years after the death of the artist? it should be fine. but if it's just a statue, how interesting can that really be?
don't remove too much work unless it's really bad, just because you don't like it, or it doesn't compare to your current stuff - a buyer still might like it. if it has glaring issues, then go ahead and remove them.
---Mike Savad
9 Years Ago
Mike, Just found this thread. Can I change its course a bit before it is totally over with?
I read your comments from a year ago about Statcounter, need to take out the hard stops "< >". And make it one line of code.
So with the code I will paste here do I take off the first and last hard stops? Do I keep spaces between the code breaks etc?
Below I will do a job on this code. Can you let me know if I get it right? TIA
var sc_project=10003904;
var sc_invisible=1;
var sc_security="2476fd90";
var scJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ?
"https://secure." : "http://www.");
document.write("");
!-- Start of StatCounter Code for Default Guide --
script type="text/javascript"
var sc_project=10003904;
var sc_invisible=1;
var sc_security="2476fd90";
var scJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ?
"https://secure." : "http://www.");
document.write("sc"+"ript type='text/javascript' src='" +
scJsHost+
"statcounter.com/counter/counter.js'/"+"script");
/script
noscriptdiv class="statcounter"a title="shopify site
analytics" href="http://statcounter.com/shopify/"
target="_blank"img class="statcounter"
src="http://c.statcounter.com/10003904/0/2476fd90/1/"
alt="shopify site analytics"/a/div/noscript
!-- End of StatCounter Code for Default Guide --
9 Years Ago
I put the first and very last "< >" back on the single line when I pasted the html into the bio. The code then disappeared.
I hope I have it right.
TIA
9 Years Ago
I just got my answer from StatCounter:
Code Partially Detected
Although you have correctly installed the StatCounter code on your homepage,
we could not find the code on the subsequent pages that we checked: .
If you do not wish to track visits on those pages, you can safely ignore this warning and continue to the projects page, otherwise you might need to double check that you have inserted the code snippet correctly on every page.
Website Address:
9 Years Ago
as long as it partly works and it looks more or less invisible (no code), it will work. but only on the bio page. it looks like it's working for you though. you'll never know what pages they came in on, only that they left those pages. but anything helps.
and the thread is on going, it never ends.
---Mike Savad
9 Years Ago
the first thing in an 'honest' critique of your work is - would you, or anyone else, hang this on their wall? It's not a really good determinate - cause I see what people are buying on the 'recently purchased".
9 Years Ago
Great information. I need to go back and get rid of some of my photos from when I was first starting out. Although it's nice to see my progress, it's going to distract buyers...
9 Years Ago
Thanks for all the info, Mike :) I think I need to do some serious self critique...my "style" is all over the place. Thank goodness I don't have much posted yet!
9 Years Ago
Mike I have read a few of your discussions on any type of help you can give to us who really need it and want to say thank you so much.
I know its not your job but it would really be a help if you go back in to my site on here and take a look and see if I have done better with thing like my
wordings, and my profile. The photos are a big thing to so yes if you would...
Thanks Mike
Jo.
8 Years Ago
Hi Mike -
I have been here since the beginning of February - am having a great time and learning a lot. I need feedback on my website. I have had close to 6000 visits - as expected, an overwhelming number of of bots. Don't know what to make of this. Any suggestions? Feel free to rip it to shreads. Thanks.
Rauno
8 Years Ago
this guy isn't in focus and looks like a stalker. you can't tell what he's doing, and the keywords suggest all kinds of things. this isn't clear enough to print.
when shooting houses, be mindful of the surroundings. a bit of car, that tree, and white sky, make this into a snap shot. you have to ask - would i hang this in my own house? your making this for someone, houses should look very nice, something the common folk can't get. your very low on keywords btw.
i don't know what i'm looking at or why. its very grainy, not at all sharp. when you make things you want to focus on it going to a specific person.
you'll want to scan this is in, it looks like its all glare.
this is dull, hazy, not very clear, not at all sharp, looks enlarged in spots. if this is morning light, get it so its orange or has some kind of contrast. the camera you have should probably be upgraded, it seems to take rather noisy unfocused images.
see all that noise in there? the rest isn't in focus. compare your images with the ones on here, and compare them, you'll see the difference. the ones here are sharp and clear. if your shooting at night, always use a low iso, and always use a tripod.
personally, i would start people in galleries. i would erase the photos. keep the paintings, but scan them in. i didn't look at them all, but quite a few have glare or focus issues. many of your photos have a snap shot look, blown skies, bad noise, nothing in focus, no real center of interest, and they will simply drag your paintings down.
like this shot isn't bad - if it were just in focus. stuff like that would turn a buyer off and they would move on. think of any image you have as the one that will invite or chase away a person.
i would say most if not all your photos - are not printable for one reason or another.
add more keywords, advertise more, change the bio to reflect what you make, rather than your family tree. your paintings are better than your photos. you need a lot more keywords than you have now. not many will find you. see if you can find a better avatar shot, this one has a snap shot look, and isn't that sharp
and keep in mind - who this thing will be for. not the tree lover, not the player in the background or the fence company. many of these look like grab shots you took while eating lunch with one hand.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
mostly the mistake painters make is, because it takes longer to do a painting, they have less to show. so they fill it up with random photos. but unless the photos are at least on the same level as the paintings. it will only drag them down and water down what they have.
if you do send photos, always look at them at a 100% and ask - at the very least - is this in focus? is there noise? can i see the point of this image? then decide from that.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Your instructions here are well presented and so well communicated and understandable that I want to get to work editing out or changing most of my gallery as a result.
As a model for us can you present an example of what you personally consider your most successful work item based upon your critique?
Vincent Von
8 Years Ago
all of them. all my work is my best example. you just don't see or can't tell because i removed the stuff that bothered me. there would be no actual model. if the image looked bad, i wouldn't edit it. if the image had things inside that didn't belong, i would edit it out. there is also no such things as a most successful work, that actually makes no sense.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
If you focus on perfection and following the rules and guides of others, then creativity is crushed.
Next, next, next!
8 Years Ago
of course i read what i write, i don't know what your talking about. it sounds like i'm pushing you into thinking a certain way. creativity only goes so far, if its not interesting it probably won't sell.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Van Gogh didn't sell much but he was creative.
If the sole motive is capitalism and following a similar approach, then what is left is "a empty shell."
Different thought patterns - you have your methodology and more methodology so good luck to you!
8 Years Ago
Hi David, I never said it solely was - but he wrote "creativity only goes so far!"
It is about order, rules, presumptions and in general this hinders creativity - anyway, each to their own!
8 Years Ago
you can either be penniless but - artful.
or you can make money. since your on a POD i assume you want money. critiquing yourself has nothing to do with a loss of creativity, it allows you to be more creative by being more critical over your work. if you think your the best all the time, you'll never get better. because there is always ways to improve yourself. if you think it hinders, that that's your problem.
its fun and all to be creative, but i'm certain people who choose to be artists for their career would have chosen money over creativity if they had the chance. i'm certain that all those past painters and such didn't really want to paint images in a church. but those are the ones that paid... but this thread has nothing to do about creativity, only nit picking yourself to improve.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
did you read all of it? or did you just read the parts that bothered you?
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Van Gogh the patron saint of non-sellers. How come no one ever uses a successful artist to make a point? Creating art that the market does not want is not proof of creativity.
Thanks Mike for trying to help fellow artists be successful in their own lifetimes!
8 Years Ago
Hi Edward, you can manipulate language all day long - if you are solely focused on a capitalist angle and methodology and more methodology - great, good for you also.....
I am from Japan and we have many great companies that make robots!
8 Years Ago
what does robots have to do with anything? and if you think this thread stifles creativity, why are you in here? why do you think they make robots anyway? i don't think they do it for free. usually its a gimmick, some are useful, creativity only goes so far, until you need input by other people to make it better. the same goes for everything. no one is manipulating language, and your point is not getting across. if you don't want to listen to others, or yourself, to improve on your own work, then don't listen, and simply don't get better.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Once you post your work on a POD site, you have made the decision to sell your work. And your work will be judged as sell-able or not by the customers. Anyone who thinks Van Gogh was happy as a lark from his unsuccessful art career is fooling themselves.
Everything Mike lists talks to presenting your work as a professional (i.e. someone who sells their artwork). Every profession requires professionism.
8 Years Ago
Mike -- It's very generous of you to offer an arsenal of great info...as a refresher for existing professionals and sound guidance for casual, amateur and aspiring professional photographers. Thank you for mentioning horizon lines, as I go crazy when I see a crooked one!! When I paint, my mindset re self critique is along the lines of how the piece would be juried for a competition.... with great scrutiny by living masters, where every aspect is judged based on command of the medium, subject, composition, color, light/shadow, values, perspective, edges, interest, etc.
8 Years Ago
Dave, I provide my own critique, get over it!
Mike, no, you are providing ways to crush creativity based on rules, more rules, and more rules - also, note your ridiculous presumptions about what friends and family members may say... you state "Never ask family or friends to critique your work. It will either give you useless results or bad feelings." Again, this is a robotic logic based on mass presumptions because of your systematic approach - like I said, if your focus is capitalism and methodology then good for you.....but it doesn't sound like art, it just sounds like a, b, c, d, e, f, g ......which leads to annulling creativity....
No point to respond because we both will beg to differ - maybe if you also want to get better then "listen to others" and don't be scared of critique.
Ironic, I think!
8 Years Ago
Edward, you state "And your work will be judged as sell-able or not by the customers."
Individuals join for various reasons and not one singular reason - nobody stated Van Gogh was happy or unhappy - but if he lived the perfect life then maybe that mass creativity would never have existed... and you would not know who Van Gogh was.....
If you are focused on capitalism and methodology, then great.....it is your choice...
8 Years Ago
Obviously there is no recipe for success. You have to be willing to listen, take advice and learn rather then believing that you create art in a vacuum chamber and buyers will appear out of nowhere. In a dream world you hand off your work to a magical gallery, they sell it by magic and hand you a fat check.
The reality of selling your own work is much different.
8 Years Ago
i don't recall saying anything about rules at all. you can be as free as you want, but for those that either lack the ability or are not selling, then there may be a reason for it. the only thing that holds you back is you.
to me it sounds like you will accept any kind of comment, coming from anyone as long as its nice. now i am familiar with japan to a certain degree and there is a lot of honor type things going on there. along with complimenting things when you can, and not saying anything bad against anyone to prevent hurt feelings. and perhaps you got caught in that trap. and maybe you haven't been critiqued or feel that your good enough - which is totally fine. but this is for the others that haven't been bestowed with your gift.
i find more times than not a friend or family member will say something nice, because if they didn't, they wouldn't be a friend. i have tested this where i worked btw - they only want compliments. truth - is something they could not handle. do i like your dress? no, i don't. they don't ask after that.
in any case, whether you see my approach as robotic or not is your business. but it works well for me. and you can go over my images and see if they are creative or not. i don't use emotion when making it, i do follow a series of steps, each person does it their own way. but i think i'm doing a good job based on my methods, and it makes it easier for others to understand as well.
if you think it stifles creativity -- then your dead wrong. why shouldn't i respond? this is my thread.
i was on a critique site for about 12 years before it closed down, i'm not afraid of critiques, however it depends who it comes from and if i ask, and if its useful. still i think this is more of a personal issue you seem to have.
still your here on a POD site. you have prices next to your work yes? then you are also focused on capitalism.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Edward, your record is stuck!
Also, you are making presumptions about my opinions but in reality you are merely highlighting a shallow approach.
I gave my critique of what was in the original post. Magic and the dream world is your approach but I don't believe in a magical world but
I do know that art can easily be crushed by rules and regulations - therefore, "free your mind" if you want "to feel art."
Alternatively, just focus on monetary issues and following regulations - again, good for you and hopefully this will reward your systematic approach.....
We will continue to beg to differ so no point for either of us to waste any more energy.....
8 Years Ago
Mike - you see, your methodology approach now comes out like racial stereotypes - you state "and there is a lot of honor type things going on there. along with complimenting things when you can, and not saying anything bad against anyone to prevent hurt feelings. and perhaps you got caught in that trap."
I see, so Japanese nationals go around not upsetting anyone and they base life on honor..... You certainly are great when it comes to mass generalizations - yes, you also need to "free your mind."
8 Years Ago
wait... his record is stuck?
there are no rules. and i never suggested there were. however creative insight helps those that don't have it. ever here about the rule of thirds? non creatives have to use it because they don't know balance. the ones strict on the rule tell others you can't center things. this list is just things to look into, you don't have to follow them like a robot. i still think something in this list is effecting you in a deeper psychological way, most people would have moved on by now.
we have different approaches clearly, i don't need a free mind, for me creativity isn't about expression, it's about creativity. not all art is emotional - i feel nothing for it. you don't have to waste energy on this, your point about money is moot if your charging for it.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
"You certainly are great when it comes to mass generalizations"
Finally finally FINALLY this thread gets interesting :-)
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
i've seen enough culture from japan to know the basics. maybe anime isn't the best way to judge a culture, but i find its accurate enough to have repeatable themes in all of them, and i've seen enough to get a good idea behind it. but it really doesn't matter, to me it seems you like came to this thread because you have a grudge against people that think differently than you. and your here more for the argument more than anything else, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same themes over and over.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
and your making a mass generalization because you think you can't get creativity with a list.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Sawako - thank you for releasing me from this conversation. Sayōnara
----
FYI - You might enjoy this "Sorry Art is a Business"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-m-eger/the-business-of-art-and-a_b_981528.html
8 Years Ago
Mike - you mass generalizations now is leading you to generalize about Japanese nationals - I think this says everything.
You also state, "not all art is emotional - i feel nothing for it" - yes, this sounds like a cold approach to art and this is my point... Thanks for merely illuminating this because you focus on rules and regulations - just like your racial stereotyping of Japanese nationals because you can't "free your mind" to face a critique about your systematic approach.
8 Years Ago
right now your trolling. that's all.
placing me as a racist, has nothing to do with this conversation.
i create my work using a particular approach, it has not failed me. i create original work for the most part. your work, as you mentioned, was inspired by another artist, so i wonder how deeply creative they are. but i don't care one way or the other. why are you here if this approach doesn't work for you? i don't know, and still don't care. free your own mind, it seems to be stuck on one track.
your critique is acknowledged, but you offer nothing else. "free your mind" won't help those that need help.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Sawako Utsumi, please read the rules of the forum before responding further Discussion Rules
Dan, for inciting more trouble I suggest taking some time off
8 Years Ago
"Never ask family or friends to critique your work. It will either give you useless results or bad feelings. If you ask someone like that for a look, they will always tell you that your work looks great."
Mike, you are so right. In my younger years, I would solicit critiques, and of course they were all positive. However, looking back at some of those works, it became clear that those people were either just being kind or took my age into consideration. I wish I had people around me then who could have given me honest, qualified critiques and guidance. So, now, I only share or show my work. If someone makes a nice comment or says something of merit, I am very appreciative and always listen. Every now and then, a total stranger can spot something I missed... I love when that happens! But, nowadays, I treasure critiques from those whose works, albeit different, are superior to mine in whatever aspect.
8 Years Ago
Mike, you created your own racial stereotypes - they were your words and not mine.
But clearly you highlight something about yourself based on your mass generalizations of Japanese people.
8 Years Ago
usually when someone asks me what i think, i can't say a lie. not with a straight face anyway. today's society seems to feel totally comfortable telling little white lies to save face. nice tie ed, love the shoes alice, nice haircut bozo.
i don't accept compliments for the most part, unless someone did it when i wasn't around. when i was at work i only got compliments when they wanted a favor after. like, i shot a group image at xmas. what did i get - compliments, followed by a print of the image. i dare not put it online, they wanted me to print it at home. i asked for the email, and they weren't at all interested, they wanted it for free and expected the compliment to pay for the time and effort.
criticism should only come from those that are qualified and asked for. there are always people out there that are jealous and will volunteer their own critique, whether on an image or a creative process.
when you young, you do need encouragement unless your the type that needs constant guidance and then its fine to say what's wrong to improve on stuff. many will just give up art if they got the real thing. so its understandable that when your young, the critique should be light. and you can only believe a real critique when they point out what they like and what they don't.
like - i really like this because i had a cabin that looked just like this. or i remember going fishing with my dad in a boat just like that... if its enough to conjure a memory then you did a good job. if they say - i don't like this at all, and if you ask - how come, and they don't have a freakin clue.. ignore everything else they say.
also critiques only work for those that can follow them or see it the way others see it. and then learn from that. not as a mistake but another way of seeing it. like i was always lost to not seeing shadow or reflection. or getting the story right in an image.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
and your still on playing the racist card. you are the one that brought up your country about robots out of no where. i am allowed to make up my own types of people if i want. but it hardly matters, and it does not apply to this thread. you seem to be stuck on just one track still though.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
I F Abbie Shores 1stAngel Arts
Rules, sorry, who brought race into the counter responses? I or the other person?
Please say the same to this person because I haven't used race or began to stereotype races based on mass prejudice.
Also, I haven't attacked the art/photography or whatever this person creates - but this individual appears to be rebuking me for my art - strange because it is a parody and clearly the initial focus by Sekka was a Buddhist monk - I have played on this by focusing on Shintoism and so forth. The meaning isn't just art it is also political but I need not going into this.
Don't abide by double standards because it is clear who brought up racial stereotypes....
8 Years Ago
Mike, no it is clear that you are stuck by mass generalizations and you reduce a culture influence by Buddhism, Shintoism and Confucianism to a mere stereotype at the drop of the hat.
The word that springs to mind begins with R, doesn't it?
No point to continue with this thread because your systematic approach means that you can't free your mind.
It was a critique and this is it..... good bye!
8 Years Ago
"Mike - you mass generalizations now is leading you to generalize about Japanese nationals" you didn't say racist, but that's what you meant by saying this.
no, your placing me as a racist for assuming things about your country. whether i'm right or wrong, it has nothing to do with the topic. and i can make any generalizations i want. perhaps you can elaborate where i am wrong - because what i said certainly was not insulting, as you make it out to be.
near as i can tell you came here to argue only. you never critiqued, none was asked for. if a person had issues with creativity, free your mind - will not help them. your approach is far simpler, but not as effective because it will only get you one kind of art, without the ability to make critical judgments about your own work. if your stuff doesn't sell or doesn't win people over, you will be unable to change your ways because you may lack that element to look at the work in a critical way, oh well for you.
but if your leaving the thread... see ya.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Sawako, since you did not take Abbie's advice, please take a week off so you have plenty of time to read the rules.
Specifically, the part on trolling.
8 Years Ago
If you made some sort of blog, I would definitely use it. It would also keep you from having to repeat things over and over again on this site, like you mentioned.
8 Years Ago
thanks JC...
all my threads like these are blogs on here as well. its easier to read because it doesn't have the banter or fighting. this thread is usually more of a one on one kind of thing, where people have questions. on the blog here - i get comments, but they never tell me that i got comments so its hard to know anyone made them.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
In general when you consider blogging you want to think about what you want to be known for - your art or giving advice about selling art. The content attracts a different audience - one buyers and the other sellers.
I'd split it into two different blogs. One about your process, inspirations, interests as an artist etc. The other about advice to fellow artists.
8 Years Ago
Agree re blogging. I'd also like to mention that a lot of painters use blogs to post news, such as their art appearing in a particular magazine, their art winning an award in a competition, workshop announcements, signing with a gallery, joining a professional art society, etc. If Mike consolidated all his blogs and included lots of his images and did an e-book for Kindle, I would think that would be a news blog entry... just my thinking. But, then, news/announcements could also be an entirely different page.
8 Years Ago
Thank you very much Mike. You are very generous and honest in all your proposals. Especially because your work is unique and do not look like anyone. In the galleries you end up bored of seeing always the same. The visual language is more than millions of snapshots, but art is even more complex, because before enjoying as a symphony.
8 Years Ago
Mike, what are your thoughts on removing images from my FAA portfolio after posting them? I read in a discussion thread at one point that once up, it's not necessarily a good idea to remove them, as it could impact your rankings in Search, or other such things. However, I agree with your comments that we should be posting only our best work -- nothing that would reduce the overall quality of our portfolio.
I have a handful of things up that I really don't care for any longer, and that I don't think really represents me well enough. I kind of cringe when I see these pieces; however, in the back of my head, I know some people out there may like them (and some of the ones I don't like at all, really, have gotten several comments; this is primarily tied to some of my paintings, however, as I grow as a photographer I can also now look at some of my older images and I think some are 'weak' in comparison to my stronger pieces). Thoughts on this matter of deleting? Or do I just leave them up?
8 Years Ago
it depends why your erasing them. if the work is printable, i'd just forget about them and they may still sell. unless those images totally drag down the rest of the stuff, then remove it. i've cut a few free in the past. like when a tree is dying, and you've tried everything, sometimes its best to remove a chunk.
if i looked back at all my pieces, knowing what i know now, i would probably end up removing many pieces including those that sell. if i see something glaring - like a bad clone or crop or the lighting looks bad, or color is bad - i will fix it first. if you uploaded what you can see are snap shots - erase it. or if it doesn't work for you, erase it. i know mostly my work is the best when i sent it here, but my eyes catch things much faster than they did and i do find mistakes. the older the piece, the higher the chance at a sale, so its often best to keep it there.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Cool, I appreciate your input Mike. I think most are fine, thus, since they are printable and since they aren't just snapshots, I will keep them up. However I will probably end up deleting at least 3-5 pieces that I continue to just really not like. I'm not certain they 'drag down' the rest of my stuff, like I said, I am sure someone would like them, however, I just keep coming back to these handful of items that I simply don't like. It's totally subjective (they are paintings), but they simply bother me / I know I can do better.
8 Years Ago
Hmm, I hope I didn't come across as disregarding your input. How 'old' do you think the piece has to be for a higher chance of sale? The ones I am considering removing are anywhere from 1 year old to a month old.
(I have kept them up despite my having grown to not like them.... it's just tough to see something that I don't think really represents my best!)
8 Years Ago
yay i've been stickied on 12-14-15 - to mark the occasion.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Mike, very generous of you to write out so much detail. I'm glad you brought up horizon lines, stories, and photographing other artists' work. Some contests are full of Chihuly, statues, street art, and even paintings of historic masters. Bump.
8 Years Ago
there are many under the impression that all they have to do is shoot it - and its not their copyright. but what they don't understand is - the image is theirs, but not the content. and spotting the statue or the painting on the wall, is not the same as creating it. yet they try to sell it anyway, which is wrong. on the plus side, i've seen some so poorly photographed, they wouldn't print anyway... but ironically those are the people who are the most paranoid of people "stealing" their images.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
Mike - thank you for taking time to write this article. I'm off to my gallery to "shop."
8 Years Ago
Thank you so much, Mike.! What an awesome person you are to take the time to write this highly informative info, and share with all of us.
8 Years Ago
Nice thoughtful tutorial and well worth reading. Thanks for reposting Mike. Have a good year.
8 Years Ago
My little trick to evaluate my artwork to look at in through the mirror. Reflection in the mirror might point out something that you didn't notice while creating. In my studio I actually have a huge divided mirror right above my working desk.
Especially, when I work on the large pieces, and especially when it is commission painting; it is hard to abstract and look at the end-result with the "fresh" eye.. Mirror helps!!
Cheers, and have the most productive day All!!
Irina
http://www.artirina.com/
7 Years Ago
Like Irina's trick of looking through the mirror, sometimes I'll flip my image and flaws will jump out!
7 Years Ago
Thank you for the hints, and ideas and bluntness, I am going to have a gooooood look at my work and hope it makes a difference in what other folks see/feel about it :D
7 Years Ago
It was long but it was good. I rarely read everything but I read your entire post. Thanks for that.
6 Years Ago
Very useful info. Thank you Mike for this and the other advice I have come across. As a newbie here, I find the contributions in the forum from you and many others invaluable.
6 Years Ago
Mike! Soooo, this is a bump! Good to also learn some lingo! Your time and effort to help us is most appreciated AND proves to be most helpful to me! Thank you ever so much!
6 Years Ago
Editing your work is forced manipulation.....a controlled maneuver to change what is natural.....art should be spontaneous...of the moment.....inspiration should rush through your mind into your brush and onto the canvas...,freely....uninhibited....and allowed to dry. Editing will destroy the process.
6 Years Ago
that's only true when it comes to paintings that don't follow a strict guide, however you still need to clean it up after a scan.
if your talking photography, unless you have 100% control over the lighting, the environment and so on, you have to edit. its no different than spicing meat, sure you can cook it just as it is, and hopefully the meat will taste good. but the right seasoning goes a really long way. it separates a pro chef to a guy in the kitchen.
since i'm a photographer, i'm speaking from my point of view. you have to edit things, there is no shame to editing something you have, all my work is edited. the trick is, don't make it look edited.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
6 Years Ago
"Art should be spontaneous...of the moment"
If that opinion would rule, human art history is limited to a few decades.
Should Michelangelo keep a marble block "natural" or are we better off letting him edit it?
6 Years Ago
bump so it doesn't close on me
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
6 Years Ago
bumping all before it closes again
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Great info. Are you saying I cannot sell this image? It sits in someone's front yard in Galveston and is a memory of the tree that was blown down by Hurricane Ike. I planned on doing several images.
5 Years Ago
is that a current statue? or is it out of copyright? statues, while public are still covered under the copyright. it would be like if you hung your art outside and someone shot it and sold it. i know of a few statue makers that went after artists selling it. if the person is long dead and this is a 100 years old, then i guess its ok. others can chime in if they know a better answer, though none of us are lawyers or want to be pegged as one.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
No. I'm afraid this is quite recent....carved from the root of a tree that was destroyed by Hurricane Ike a few years ago. There are quite a few of them in about a 5 block area in the city of Galveston. Bummer.
5 Years Ago
the only options you have is to:
a. take your chances you won't be found
b. contact the artist if you can track them down, ask permission to sell the images you take.
c. pay for the rights to sell the image if you ask the artist - and the price may be well outside the range of you making the money to pay it back by selling the image.
those are really the only things i can see where you may not get into trouble.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Thanks for this post, Mike. Being impartial is probably the toughest part. I find myself uploading images, promoting them.... and then deleting them the next day after more thoughtful consideration. It's tough. I try to imagine a spot in my own home for everything I upload and if I can't imagine that ideal location, I will usually remove it or not upload it.
5 Years Ago
if you liked the image the first time, then leave it up. mostly when i say, can you see it in your house, its for the quality of the image, not always the subject. i have a lot of bizarre things that wouldn't match anything, that sell fine. but its the quality level. like cooking for yourself, would probably be higher than cooking for guests or maybe vice versa. if the quality is there leave it.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Just did some research. Graffiti is also copyright protected. Sure glad Mother Nature isn't into copyrighting. We would really be up a creek without a paddle! Thanks for all your info, Mike.
5 Years Ago
its weird how it is. i doubt a graffiti artist would go after you... however if they were hired to do a mural, then there could be trouble. but i don't know how many people go after others because the mural is in a scene with other buildings.
some mother nature is copyrighted, like there is a certain tree that is supposedly marked to sue people when they shoot it. i forget which though.
things like the bull statue in NY, i think some have gotten in trouble for that, mostly i think because they use it as a trademark.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
also - never ever do a Chihuly, while he doesn't blow anything, he attacks anyone that shoots his work or has it in there. which is a pain because sometimes he puts his stuff in the canals of venice. and if you happen to be there, you could get in trouble for selling canal shots with his stuff in the way.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Hi, I have recently uploaded my artworks for sale here but I am not sure if their quality is good or not. Could you please help me know if their prints will turn out fine or not. I have printed them myself before uploading here and they look fine but i still want to confirm.
5 Years Ago
this is blurred up close, it will probably be rejected
at first glance i would say this was fine but i see a lot of jaggy edges on everything.
all the others look ok to me.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Wonderful article, I have a question maybe you can help me with. I'm doing YouTube Videos and am on number two. I want to post it in the discussions but I don't know how to get the "live" link on the message. If I copy and paste it doesn't show to be live. Hope you can help or anyone else? My e-mail is cjstudio7@gmail.com or post in this discussion tab. Thanks, Carole Sluski
5 Years Ago
if you go to youtube and look for the SHARE button, then choose EMBED copy all that Iframe text and paste it in here or where ever. in facebook and such, just the url is fine.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
5 Years Ago
Thank you Mike! I just posted my first couple of images last night. After reading this, I think I need to remove one for sure, maybe more. Excellent info!
Ok, I’m adding something since I’ve seen others do it. If you could check out my images and tell me what you think, I’d be thrilled. If they’re bad, I sure don’t want to try and sell them...Thanks again!
5 Years Ago
Hi Mike, I have asked you before about some of my work. I have been on FAA about 21/2 tears have only sold a few images. Do you think it's time for me to hang my hat up or continue trying. When You have a moment [HA! HA!] can you got to a few of my images and critique them. I really try to take images to sell not the snapshot kind. My confidence is low in myself anyhow and family and friends do as you say "O your pictures are wonderful you should sell them!! another HA! they nor anyone else buys.
Thank you for this article it is very informative. Thank you for taking your time to help all of us out!
5 Years Ago
just a disclaimer, i'm not the type of person to cheer people up or to inspire confidence.
anyway, if someone says you should sell, sell it to them, just put them on the spot, it really can't hurt.
i like the barn, but it could use a sunset, or some clouds, or a cow, or the things listed in the description. it would make a better winter shot with a single set of foot prints going to it. the barn is nice, but the rest is dead or bland. the black and white i don't like, it looks like a simple conversion, it doesn't add much to it.
i'm not sure what i'm supposed to be looking at in this. i see clutter, and branches in the frame.
this is a good shot, it could use a touch more contrast, it works better than the color, of which i would add more fall like trees in the color one. i'm mixed on the flag, it hurts the old look of the barn. but it tells a story, a weathered barn, a horse, its out there in the woods. that's the type of shot you want to upload.
its not that its a bad shot, its just so over exposed on the back, it actually spoils it a bit.
i don't like either version, but the text is kind of tacky on there. it doesn't look right. its also hard to read and too close to the face. that goes for the others that have that.
these sunsets are nice, i would crop out most of the black at the bottom. it should be pretty much all color. since i'm guessing this is your back yard, i'd wait and shoot it again, leaving just a bit of black, or shoot it as a portrait.
when you put text on things, be sure to think of the person's eye sight. like i'm blinded by the combo of cyan and yellow.
you have two of these, i would remove the first, since you have 2. it has a sun spot in the center. the light has a bit too much glare in it, and it could be sharper. i tripod is best, on a day that has no breezes. the keywords stink. i mean - stair, parking area, viewing platform? and no waterfall, autumn, nature, landscape?
being in the country you can get autumn and winter shots more easily than people like me, so i would try to bulk up on those. farm stuff does sell, but you have to have nice light. like that sunset and one of the barns you see, or the color of the light to make the rest look warmer. so i would go for that. photography is all about the light and sometimes the story.
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
4 Years Ago
I just realised that I had asked you about my pictures before. Please let me know if they are fine now. Also I want to know about preparing images for black and white prints. I read somewhere that we have to edit the image in grayscale mode and then convert it into sRGB for uploading. I want to confirm if it's correct or not.
4 Years Ago
those should print fine. black and white should be made into the sRGB or aRGB like the other's. since there is no grayscale for jpg anyway it shouldn't matter.
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
3 Years Ago
Thank you so much, Mike, for sharing your expertise and experience. You're really making me rethink a number of the photos in my galleries. Time to prune...
3 Years Ago
Thanks for posting this blog, you say in it not to take photos of pets.This is what most of my photos are of. What do you suggest I should do?
3 Years Ago
you can shoot pets, just don't let them look like pet photos. like they should be in focus, there shouldn't be clutter in the background, shouldn't be that close to its face. a pet photo is a lot like a picture of someone's kid - its only cute for you. people tend to forget that if i wanted to buy a dog for my wall, i would want a clear, clean sharp image. it should be cute, or playful, it shouldn't be dark, blurry, from over head, always eye level. take it outside, not inside. also you need more keywords, at least name the action and the dog type.
the biggest problem with pets are - the owner thinks all things the dog does is charming and cute. but in reality, to sell the thing, it has to be more universal. more interesting, and less like a wallet full of images. -- did i mention - focus is very important, a lot of your dogs are blurry. i doubt they would even print. you always have to ask yourself - would i buy a print of someone else's dog, if they were just laying on the floor doing nothing?
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
3 Years Ago
This may be for photography, but a lot of this is basic rule of thumb for paintings as well. This is a great thing to go over, even as a refresher. Why aren't this and the other one pinned?? Gold mine here!
3 Years Ago
they get pinned now and then. they are featured in abbie's mighty long list of helpfulness.
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
3 Years Ago
wow 2 months have passed since i last bumped it.
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
3 Years Ago
no. because they will not print it with your own watermark, and people won't buy it. even the ones with the faa mark on them, there are many that won't buy it because they think it comes with it. leave all watermarks off, post them as a picture on facebook with a mark.
what you see is what you get on this site. only post images that are clear, sharp, don't look soft at a 100%. no enlarging, no watermarks. you can have a name as long as its small, faded out of the way.
----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com
3 Years Ago
Mike you have a good work to give a way for everyonehttps://fineartamerica.com/featured/new-art-work-shiva-dubey.html
2 Years Ago
This is a great read with very good pointers mike. Thank you for the advice I am definitely going to utilize these techniques on my next photography adventure.
2 Years Ago
If no one is responding for months on end why not let them close.
People can search for them like everything else.
You can link them as you always do in responses.
But the general participants are not interacting. We have our own opinions on what to do formed over many years.
Frankly my response is exactly what you would say to anyone else in the forum on this topic and others.
2 Years Ago
because some people do respond to them, they have a question etc. And i'm allowed to bump it. If they didn't self close I wouldn't have to.
----Mike Savad
2 Years Ago
I get you help newbies in hopes of sales.
Most of us do not get into all of that because as you would say sell offsite not onsite.
2 Years Ago
@Mike
Keep bumping up periodically.
Good information, no one is particularly know what they are looking for and yet alone to search for it.
Many may read and benefit but don't always comment or give you a feedback.
For those already read it, have seen it, can always scroll through.
Thanks.
2 Years Ago
if neither of you have anything to say that is related to this subject, and you are only here to start trouble, then leave this thread. Thanks.
----Mike Savad
2 Years Ago
I am glad to see this bumped! It is full of good information! I am wanting to use my cameras more so need the reminders!
