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Isabella Abbie Shores

3 Years Ago

Critique V Pat On Back - Difference In Asking

non official posting


My job here is hard enough some days, without people asking for a pat on the back and being surprised when they do not get it.

Here is my run down on thread titles and what to expect from them

Feedback wanted -

Thread starter - You will get feedback good AND bad. Be prepared. If you do not want that, please rephrase your subject title
Responder - Up to you what you do with this one as long as you are not plain rude

Critique wanted -

Thread starter - PLEASE try and add the images title so we can refer later and not end up with 100's of posts titled Critique wanted. This also gives good and bad responses but also you will tend to get good advice from very skilled and professional artist, both of paint or camera work. ONLY PUT THIS IF YOU WANT CRITIQUE
Responder - Give good honest critique. Anyone can give a critique based on what they do know about the subject shown. If you do not know how to give one, perhaps read this How To Critique Someones Work

What do you think -

Thread Starter - Think about WHAT? The weather? The cost of fuel? This is a silly subject title and should be treated as such. If you use this title then use a really good description in the actual body of the post.
Responder - Just tell them what you think. (remember the rules of the site)

Tell me what you like about this piece

Thread starter - Use this if you are feeling somewhat battered already and just want to know nice things
Responders - If you have a critique, bad comment or anything negative, stay OUT of these threads. There is NOTHING wrong with someone wanting a pat on the back sometimes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If people do not like what other people say in a thread, it is not your place to tell them. As you can see from the above examples, if someone asks for a response to a question, then they should be able to take the answer to that question. If the responder is plain rude then I will deal!

We do not expect rudeness from members to other members but, we also do not expect people to ask for things they do not want.

Reply Order

Post Reply
 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

I actually listen to critiques very seriously even if they are unsolicited depending on IF I respect the critiquer.

SO, tell me what you like about this one!

Sell Art Online

 

Angelina Vick

3 Years Ago

May I plug my group Beth? Work definitely improves from critique.

Raw Critique....it's exactly what it sounds like.

http://fineartamerica.com/groups/raw-critique.html?tab=overview

 

Beth wrote: "A lot of people have made changes because of peoples' inputs."

Perhaps, but who's to say any of that input, along with the specific changes that were made, was, in the final analysis, necessarily beneficial to the piece? After all, not one of those alleged benefactors who've recommended the artist accept their prescription for change has even seen the work in question in the flesh, before or after the changes.

 

No masterpiece of artwork was ever created by committee; democracy may be great, but it fails miserably when it shapes the actual work of art.

Had I so little confidence in my ability, and in my skills as an artist, that I thought I couldn't trust my own 'eye' to do the work without help, I'd be a sorry excuse for an artist.

If you're one who thinks you need someone else's opinion of your own creation in order to complete the job - or at least, 'feel good' about it - you should first consider the source of that opinion.

Remember this: If you're uploading your own copyright-protected imagery to this POD web site and profiting from the sales of reproductions made here, then you should consider yourself a professional artist, and you should adopt the business acumen that accompanies this distinction.

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

3 Years Ago

Patrick

It is not up to you, or me, how people want to paint their pictures or portray their photography and, if they are new and would like help, then that is good.

If they just want to hear they are good because they hear nothing but negatives from family and friends.... that's good also.

NOT our problem or choice.

They just need to know what to expect when making a post. Hence mine.

 

Mike Savad

3 Years Ago

i just want to add that if someone asks for feedback or a critique - this isn't an excuse to berate or belittle the artist. you give your thoughts about the piece and why you don't like it. i've seen too often that certain people will use this as an excuse to add a snarky comment but not actually help the person in any way shape or form.

oh and jc my critique for that doll thing - i think it would look better if the eyes were more wall-eyes, both in two directions, but not too much. i can't decide if she should be looking at me, or in two directions at once.


---Mike Savad

 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

Bethhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I asked people to tell me what they liked about it and Mike critiqued it!!!!!!

heh

 

Mike Savad

3 Years Ago

trouble makers... since i stopped reading after - i take critiques seriously, then i'm pretty sure i read - mike critique this, i think it was subliminal.

---Mike Savad

 

Quoting myself: "...I agree with Beth's judgment in announcing this ruling."

Everything else I posted here constitutes my professional opinion; it is the basis of opinion that is the underlying premise of this thread.

Jeffrey wrote: "This is not a true statement, agreed Beth?" in response to my statement: "After all, not one of those alleged benefactors who've recommended the artist accept their prescription for change has even seen the work in question in the flesh, before or after the changes;" by 'in the flesh,' I meant the original artwork, not a reproduction.

To say otherwise would be to tell a lie.

 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

I am just messing of course Mike. People are more than welcome to critique away on me. FWIW I only pay attention to them if;

1. It is something new that I am trying and not sure if I like it or not sure what I am doing.

2. The critique points out something I hadn't noticed before.

 

Kip DeVore

3 Years Ago


I think it's creepy, JC.

 

Deborah Hall Barry

3 Years Ago

I think it's creepy too, but that's what I love about it! :)

 

Minnie Lippiatt

3 Years Ago

Ditto Mike S!!!! Yeah JC if you were trying to freak us out,,, you definally got me. I think you should of put a warning before I scroll down next time LOL.

 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

Mission accomplished. Of course, when my wife told me the doll could NOT come inside the house it was pretty much successful at that very moment.

 

Joy McKenzie

3 Years Ago

Applauds Mike Savad's comment at 3:18! I agree...as you know :)

JC, I would like to see more of the doll's hair and clothes. And if it's supposed to be an old doll...the dirt on her face looks more contrived than real...aged. She's creepy yes...I like how one eye is slightly lower in the socket than the other. It works. I just don't want to wake up and see her in my room...real or in print! lol

 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

The dirt is EXACTLY how I found her face down in an abandoned farmhouse. Nothing contrived at all.

You can read her story here.

:o)
Sell Art OnlineArt Prints

 

Arlene Carmel

3 Years Ago

I am an emerging photographer who has benefited from the honest critique offered by other professional photographer and artist members of FAA. I feel that I am getting so much more than having my own web site for the fee I paid. I have been privileged to see the works of and participate in discussions with artists of all mediums and at all levels of their careers.

I have made changes to captures upon suggestion that have enhanced an image but not changed the essence of the piece. There are threads that I have read and gone back to over and over again. I know my work has improved and am more than pleased that there are professional artist who take the time to communicate with many of us who have the talent/eye. I have benefited from constructive critique offered by successful artists who are educated in the field as well as those who are self taught. I am pleased that Beth has laid out the rules for all to see. Rudeness just does not belong in any forum and that includes FAA. This is not reality TV.

Patrick, you are a highly respected artist with talent that transcends most mortals. I love your work; more than that, I am in awe. Please know that I have confidence in my ability and trust my "eye". I simply look to others who are willing to offer a bit of advice when asked for.

JC, I'm not sure there is anything about that doll that I do like, although composition, color and lighting are done well. It is just really,really creepy. I have to agree with Joy. You know I am a fan of you work...... your doll will probably sell well during Halloween though. :-)

 

JC Findley

3 Years Ago

I honestly don't expect to sell any of "Red's" images on here. She is really something I did purely for the fun and creepiness of it. Now, I do think I may be able to find the right venue in NYC where she will sell, but this site probably is not it.

 

Amanda Jones

3 Years Ago

JC, I really like the doll's crazy hair! Oddly enough..

Angelina, I just joined Raw Critique, and my first experiences in it have been great! I'm looking forward to using the group more as I further develop my skills and personal style!

Arlene, I totally agree! I don't have the time or money to go to take photography or art classes, and while I've done study on my own, I'm always looking to improve!

Patrick, the above does not mean that I will always take everyone's advice about my photos, but I will consider everyone's critiques of my photos and make changes that I feel will improve the picture, my skills, or my style. Thus, it remains completely a work of my artistic sense. Furthermore, should not every person in any field be constantly seeking to improve? Perhaps that is my own personal opinion, but I never want to stop learning!

 

Marc Clamage

3 Years Ago

I am admittedly sometimes harsh in my critiques but then I never provide them unsolicited and frankly, if I didn't think the artist had potential I wouldn't make any comment at all. So if I come down on you like a ton of bricks it means I actually like your work. Please note that I never ask for criticism, because I have a massive ego that you can do nothing either to rein in or appeal to, so don't bother trying.

 

Joy McKenzie

3 Years Ago

I really like your other two 'Red's, JC. That wild hair is amazing, and 'Wanna Go Upstairs and Play' emphasizes her little devilish grin :)

 

Re: Critique vs. Pat on Back - Difference In Asking (resuming the discussion suggested by the topic heading)

"To say of a picture, as is often said in its praise, that it shows great and earnest labour, is to say that it is incomplete and unfit for view." - James McNeill Whistler

"You should not say it is not good. You should say you do not like it; and then, you know, you're perfectly safe." - James McNeill Whistler

Arlene, you addressed this comment to me: "Please know that I have confidence in my ability and trust my eye," and I believe you. But to have the courage of your convictions means that you do not feel compelled to ask others (especially those who, you have convinced yourself, have better judgment than you) to second guess your own decisions regarding the art you've created on your own. How will you ever know when to stop asking for approval, to stop amending and revising...to stop second guessing yourself? (By the way, Arlene, thank you very much for the compliments!)

The only critics whose judgment I trust implicitly are the buyers who have acquired my work just as it is presented to them.

Whenever I fail to sell one of my original works of art - given a reasonable amount of time and exposure, of course - I'll pull it out of the market for awhile; eventually it will sell - I just have to figure out how to get it in front of the right person.

Timing and delivery are everything.

Amanda. I've stated in other threads that I consider myself more a 'journeyman' than a bona fide artist because I continue to strive to improve my skills, learn new techniques and utilize new materials in order to better express and communicate the creative ideas I wish to convey; I grapple with the artist I wish to become, but I do not need to improve my artistic sensibilities as they are intrinsically as much a part of who I am right now as are my thoughts on this topic; it could not be otherwise.

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

3 Years Ago

Yes, I agree with you all and none of you.

:)

 

Amanda Jones

3 Years Ago

Patrick, I see what you mean now, and I agree.

 

Amanda. I'm just happy I was able to explain myself well enough to be understood; that you or someone like Beth would agree with the premise is even better. ;-)

Speaking of Beth, she wrote this: "...I agree with you all and none of you."

A transcendentally tripendicular tenet of Zen and the Art of Moderator Maintenance.

Big Skip

This is a very popular discussion with 86 responses.   In order to help the page load faster and allow you to quickly read the most recent posts, we're only showing you the oldest 25 posts and the newest 25 posts.   Everything in the middle has been skipped.   Want to read the entire discussion?   No problem: click here.

 

Danl Art

5 Months Ago

I was taught....if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything,

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

but what is considered good?

nice things can be said from anyone, but you won't get any idea of how anyone really feels about it. calling something nice doesn't explain why it was called nice. if someone asks for a critique and you think it looks great, tell them so, but point out what makes it look great or its a useless critique. usually people ask for one because they aren't sure about it, and there may be a huge flaw they don't see because people were saying good things.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Art By Ela

5 Months Ago

I joined the Raw Critique Group to get some input, but I guess it is not as active as it maybe used to be, as a group. Few people that do speak up and critique,. Greatly appreciated of course!

I think I will post an image to the discussion board for raw critique. I just have to work a bit more on them, and then pick one. I think it's a great idea to sort of stand 'naked' with your art open for all it attracts.

From the sticky note I gather that it is allowed to post an image for critique on discussion board.

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

i don't often look at that group any more. mostly because its only a few people that critique it. everyone should have a go at it. your better off posting it to the main forum, more people are on that. but more people should actually say something.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Art By Ela

5 Months Ago

Have you ever done that Mike? post an image to a forum for raw critique?

We usually do think of our own creations as good ones, because we made it and we spend time with it. so that is our point of view.
Yet, to have it in a store and hope to sell it, it is a different story.
I have paintings that my friends like, but that is all, they are not a decoration to put on the wall to see everyday.
of course, it depends on a person buying the art. Do they want a piece of art on the wall to have a conversation about? and then change the piece every few months? or do they want something sweet and tasteful to make the room more sophisticated and leave it. Who knows? Prints are affordable, yet there is so many of them.

I didn't even buy the 30 $ membership yet. I will though, but for now it doesn't make any difference, I don't even have 25 images prepared in such a way to be good enough to post for sale.

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

i don't need to, i can do my own critiques. usually i'm the one critiquing them. if you don't have 25 images yet, unless you really want the art store, i would wait. post any image that you would like for sale because you don't know who likes what. just makes sure it can print ( i didn't look). people buy all sorts of things, but mostly it comes down to advertising.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Art By Ela

5 Months Ago

okay. Thanks Mike

 

Anne Barberi

5 Months Ago

She's definitely creepy.......and a little slutty😳

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

um... huh?

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Art By Ela

5 Months Ago

I'm guessing Anne B. refers to the creepy doll posted 3 years ago? lol

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

5 Months Ago

One would definitely hope so lol

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

it shall always remain a mystery.... and a guessing game.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

5 Months Ago

Somebody call me?

Oh, and your image needs to be made surrealist and creepy JC, then it would be awesome! I could do wonderfully evil things with that image }:>

 

Art By Ela

5 Months Ago

but then, naming a doll as creepy and slutty, is it a critique?
maybe, if someone is setting a mood, and asking if it worked.

 

Anne Barberi

5 Months Ago

Lol........now I'm reminded why I stay out of discussions....too funny!!

 

Danl Art

5 Months Ago

"nice things can be said from anyone, but you won't get any idea of how anyone really feels about it...."

A camel is a horse put together by a committee.

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

that would make more sense if you had said zebra.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

5 Months Ago

Not sure, Mike...seem a lot of horses that look like camels in art

 

Mike Savad

5 Months Ago

zebra's are striped horses. they look the same. unicorns are the same. all the same animals.

camels and llama's are related they look alike. giraffe's have a similar look with other odd qualities.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

26 Days Ago

Bump cos I love JCs redhead

 

Matthias Hauser

26 Days Ago

JC, she loves your cute doll too:

Zombie mouth and teeth Art Prints

 

Isabella Abbie Shores

26 Days Ago

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

Dan Turner

26 Days Ago

Matthias, I find your zombie image far more objectionable than any full frontal nudity or sex act, both of which are prohibited here.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

K L Kingston

26 Days Ago

Matthias: Is it Zombie or Meth mouth? Yuck!

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

26 Days Ago

the only feedback i want is: just bought your image...

 

Matthias Hauser

26 Days Ago

Abbie: Sorry... ;-)

Dan: Me too! I'm european :-)

K L Kingston: I had the chance to be the stills photographer for a short film (zombie comedy). If you want to see more pics feel free: http://www.hauserfoto.com/blog/2015/8/zombie-film-brain-freeze-fotos-vom-set

 

Ricardo De Almeida

24 Days Ago

Je n'aime pas les critiques.


 

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