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Georgiana Romanovna

8 Years Ago

Need Advice On Image Sharpness For Print

I'm always questioning myself about how much I should sharpen an image before upload. In your opinions, should we not sharpen them as we might like to see them so they are not over sharpened if a buyer wants a very large print?

This abstract isn't overly sharpened but appears extremely sharp on FAA -:

Sell Art Online

Your opinions on this subject are welcome. I'm really going round in circles over it - time to ask rather than worry all the time.

Thanks in advance :)

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Steve Cossey

8 Years Ago

It also depends on your method used in sharpening. The image looks plenty sharp as is. I don't have a one size fits all "amount of sharpening". Every single image I work on is different. My method is the same but no one image gets the same amount.

 

Mark Blauhoefer

8 Years Ago

Sharpen until you see the white halos and then slowly wind back until it's sharper but the halos aren't visible.

There's quite a bit of sharpening applied to the 100% preview images on here, such that I don't think many would get printed if the original image was that oversharpened

 

Judy Kay

8 Years Ago

I wondered the same, Mike Savad has so many times indicated in different threads that you should not sharpen the image because FAA sharpens them before they print, In the past I used a preset in pixlr that really sharpened an image,,I used it in some of my South Beach scenes ,I loved the effect but quit using it because of what Mike had reported, About a month ago I see another thread where people advise that you should sharpen, .., How much is enough, how much is too much?!
With regard to that and other topics I wish FAA would create post of " dos and dont's as it relates to printing...Not just the "photographing art" topic! I also wondered about using textures on presets that I brought up in another thread, The question never was answered, Just opinions,!! We don't need opinions we need facts!

 

Georgiana Romanovna

8 Years Ago

Thank you everyone - the image up there is not as sharp in reality, but it's good for a look. I just never saw anyone write about this issue of sharpen or not. I know how to but not whether it's wise to do "too much". What might be absolute correct in Photoshop might be terrible on FAA.

I'm grateful for the input. :) Thank you.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

seems ok. i thought there were moire'd areas, but i think that's just the pattern.

its not that it shouldn't be sharpened, it should be sharp. but not too sharp. the preview box has changed over the years, but it still enhances the noise. one shouldn't have to work the preview box. ideally when it leaves your house, the image should be sharp and clear. but it shouldn't have halo's. avoid ever using the sharpen tool. i don't even know why that's still there. use a deconvolution sharpener. or unsharp mask (which varies in each piece which is why i don't bother with it). there are methods using highpass and the emboss filter. even boosting contrast will help sharpen something.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Judy Kay

8 Years Ago

Mike the sharpen" tool I use is just the one that is in the apple Photos Editor,,,not the sharpen tool found in some editing programs whereby you use a brush and go over an image,, At first I was "auto sharpening",,,Now I scale down the sharpen to just a smidgeon, Honestly I don't see much difference when I use the slider anyway, I see a more dramatic effect on the definition tool,,,

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

Do not sharpen if the image doesn't need it. Do if it does.

Load the image that is good quality. If it looks good at full res 100% then it is printable. If you then sharpen after that you will spoil it.

Just load what is the lovely quality at 100%

IF it then needs sharpening slightly for smalle sizes it will be done before printing

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

plain sharpen adds white and black lines to the edges making it seem sharper, but creates halos's and blocky edges. it was useful in 1990 when computers just started coming out. sharpen tool and sharpen mode are the same thing. generally an image has to be clear. the edges should be well defined. if it seems fuzzy, a sharpening can help it. or it can help it a lot. the black and whites i work with are clear. i can see the contrasting edges enough to make out detail. sharpening sort of squeezes that detail together. but it can so easily be overdone.

if you over do it, and your a painter, you can make the canvas moire as a thumbnail.

sharpening is something you have to see at a 100-200%


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Sharpening means increasing the contrast along edges. Its really faux sharpening. A trick for the eye.

There is sharpening going on due to your camera settings. Then sharpening in post processing. And more sharpening at the printing level. The best way to check your work flow is to order a card or small print.

In my work flow I typically take sharpening in Lightroom to about 50.

Over-sharpening is typically worse than under-sharpening because you end up sharpening noise.

 

Judy Kay

8 Years Ago

Thanks everyone! I never sharpen if there is any hint of noise, or use the definition tool) It makes matters worse for sure,Im not sure if I am on or off track on this either, I auto correct all of the sliders in photos, Then I adjust each slider to be "histogramically correct! (or an interpretation of what I think is histogramically correct) I feel like the auto tool is like a starting point, Sometimes I don't need to adjust that much,,,I suppose or hope it is because the settings in camera were correct at the onset, Sometimes I need much more adjusting, Sometimes a good photo avails itself before you have time to adjust the camera settings, This is especially true with wildlife photography, I started setting the vignette last and readjust the sliders needed to correct the histogram .*

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Mike and Ed,

Great info. I know generally very little about this, till now.

Mike, I tried to Google moire, but I do not get a good definition. What is moire?

Dave

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie that's a moire.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

"Moiré effect is a visual perception that occurs when viewing a set of lines or dots that is superimposed on another set of lines or dots, where the sets differ in relative size, angle, or spacing. The moiré effect can be seen when looking through ordinary window screens at another screen or background."

If you shoot a photograph of a zebra striped black and white dress the camera sensor can get confused and create a vibrating effect. That's the best I can describe it.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

moire is a convergence of wavy lines caused by an interference pattern. my camera has a device built in that prevents such a thing, and it does so by blurring things together a bit. this makes the image softer and newer cameras are removing those things finally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moire_%28fabric%29

apparently this is a cloth term, those wavy lines that's created. it can also happen to photos, especially canvas when its pronounced.

https://www.google.com/search?q=moire&num=100&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil-7OnyO3KAhXLrB4KHXBuCZMQ_AUIBygB&biw=1490&bih=656

here are blinding examples.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Lightroom is logically set up from top to bottom. You start adjusting from the top and work your way down. Sharpening is way down at the bottom.

Photoshop doesn't have this logical sequence and their are many controls that duplicate each other. Unsharpen mask is one of the best (correct me please if I messed this up!) ways to sharpen in Photoshop. Go figure.

Here's Abobe's official tutorial:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/how-to/photoshop-sharpen-photos.html

 

Andrea Lazar

8 Years Ago

Edward - that tutorial is an excellent explanation that helps explain some of the confusing ways we think we can or should sharpen and image - thanks for sharing it!

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Interesting. I have not tried to sharpen in many many months. The Memories image I made where Mike said use blur was a better way to go. lol

Dave

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie that's a moire.

Water! ALL over my keyboard!

 

Jennifer White

8 Years Ago

I'm always afraid to over sharpen too because I don't want to add noise. In Lightroom, I usually always increase the clarity slightly (don't want to overdo it), and if I feel the need to sharpen, I use the sharpen slider but then also hold the Alt button while sliding the mask button so I can see that it only sharpens the edges.

Thanks for the definition on Moire. I've wondered that too because usually don't see much of a difference when adjusted so I usually don't mess with it.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

i'm keeping a log of stuff landing on keyboards after comments i made.

i've got a few waters and at least one coffee.

i should probably buy keyboard stocks.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

usually you'll know if you have moire or not. it will create weirdo lines where there weren't any.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

nah on the keyboard stocks.

Dave

 

Colin Utz

8 Years Ago

My sharpening workflow in Lightroom:

1. Reduce noise, if necessary.
2. Sharpening amount = 100 - luminance noise reduction

(Example: If your luminance noise reduction is 30, use sharpening amount 70.)

Now the most important step:

3. Move the mask slider, while pressing the alt/opt key. The screen turns white. Move the slider until only the parts you want to sharpen are white (e.g. edges of a building), and the parts you don´t want to sharpen (e.g. the sky) are black.

This workflow works 90% for me.

Colin Utz
http://colinutzphotography.com

 

Georgiana Romanovna

8 Years Ago

LOL you lot are making me laugh :=) Now where did I once say I didn't know "how" to sharpen? Never. I just mean - for here on FAA. On my website my images look softer than here - and yes Mike, that image is mostly scanned grunge stuff - but is not that sharp off site.

If FAA sharpens to help our previews as to what the final image looks like, I'm happy :)

But you all keep going - some helpful hints we can all learn - everyday we learn something new. Well, I try.

 

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