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Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Artists Are Normal

When I was young I use to think artists were a strange group but as I got older and became an artist my perception has changed. There are artists who are very traditional in their appearance and lifestyle and yet are wildly creative. There are artists who are wild in their appearance and/or lifestyle who produce very down the middle work. Most artists are just kind of bland, not too creative in their work or wild in appearance or lifestyle. That just makes me think artists are, as a group, normal.....Whatever that means!

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Joy McKenzie

8 Years Ago

The plural of artist is artistS. Not trying to be the Grammar Police but not using the plural form renders the title of this thread incorrect....as well as the many times it was not used correctly in the body of your post. Just trying to help as this is a common mistake seen on here :)

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Thanks Joy, not my strongpoint!

 

Joy McKenzie

8 Years Ago

No, thank you Ronald for not taking offense :)

I agree..who can say what normal is? Being creative, an artist, feels very "normal" for me. I don't know how to be any other way. I had some problems years ago, and my creativity seemed to go underground for a while. I kept wondering if it would come back...and it did. I felt very much not myself when dealing with these overwhelming problems. And I was so grateful to make art again...it helped so much in my recovery.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Again, this begs the question "What is normal?". We are all normal in the sense that none of us are normal because there is no such thing as normal, so it's therefore normal to not be normal because normal is impossible to define.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Lets define "normal" for the sake of this thread as being something you have seen many many times.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

In this day of constant, instant information at our fingertips, (often whether we want it or not) what haven't most of us seen many, many times? Even ignoring that fact you've made normalcy relative. What's "normal" for NYC isn't normal for Defiance, Iowa because those two populations see entirely different things day to day.

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

I do NOT want to be normal. At acting classes I've become the 'artist gal' as i do not have 'normal' hair or dress. I love that. I don't want to be one of the crowd in the way I dress or look, or act. I'm very different in real life now than I was only a few years ago. I've now stopped giving a damn for convention.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

What you want or don't want is not a biggie. You can act as strange or as unusual as you wish, as an artist is your work unusual or down the center?

 

David King

8 Years Ago

"I do NOT want to be normal. "

So, you are saying you are Abbie Normal? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Even where it adheres to the conventions (formal concerns) of 'art', for myself, if it is otherwise less than 'unusual' I probably would look for another way to animate my life...at least I would hope that my posture would be so.
As for 'down the center' it is a tightrope that I have watch change through the many years of the activity. My metaphor most often used it: 'going with the flow'...my posture has most assuredly been to go 'withershins' - but unless you reference it from its older usage you might miss my point - it is not 'going with the flow' for certain!
Have a good day Ronald, love your picking our minds...

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

David King, :)

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

The entire field of advertising would suffer if we truly were different or unique. We are a silly society where conformity is pushed but we given a token pat on the back to uniqueness. When it comes right down to it we are sheep, baaa, baaa, baaa, baaa, Even artists!

 

You are just tickling it Ronald...go for it and say all of it...I just publish a book and it is lenghty in this problem and recorded as a 'end note' ... PR... and how we are moved !!! Big stuff! thank you for opening that can of worms...

 

Dan Turner

8 Years Ago

We are both -- the same where it counts and different where it counts. People who can't adapt don't survive.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Don Zawadiwsky

8 Years Ago

IMHO, all art springs from an individual's inner landscape. The strength of an artist depends a lot on how they are developing that landscape.

I never thought I would be an artist when I was growing up. Dabbled in a few things - calligraphy, photography, etc. - but didn't think I had the right mindset for it.

Then in my 20's, started exploring photography to a degree which could almost be called obsessive. Explored it in a number of different ways - photojournalism, portraits, wedding, public relations, commercial, studio - all while maintaining a day job. Couldn't afford to quit that because my hobby was too expensive!

I'm now in my mid-50's. I had the realization at age 50 that I wanted to develop that inner landscape to the exclusion of almost everything else. Quit the day job and never looked back.

I certainly don't have many of the luxuries I had before. I spend most of my money these days on equipment and travel, and have cut back a lot on nonessentials. But it's the best thing I've ever done for myself - given myself free rein to develop my inner landscape. For that, I am thankful.

 

David Randall

8 Years Ago

All children are artists at a young age. At some point things change and if asked in 5th grade very few will willingly say they are artists where a few years earlier they were on board with it. Picasso said, I believe, "the trick is staying an artist."

Looks are very deceiving sometimes. What we choose to see, well that's another matter entirely. I believe where, "normal" gets a little dicey is when you start talking to the creative personality and you find an inner life sometimes very different than that of other folk. So for that maybe, outside society, "normal." Like talent, I think we ALL have it and it's quite normal and common really. It's what we do with the talent that makes the difference. Some use it and grow to become so much more than the talent they were born with. Many subdue creative urges and some are crushed creatively by conforming to the "normal" of society only to grow late in life to understand they have to follow another path. Some had to survive society and it's pressures to be some other, "normal" not their own. No easy thing.

Am I normal? Yes. Am I different? Yes, because we are all unique in many ways. The next time you talk to your Doctor, your plumber, your lawyer you may be talking to an artist who's, "day job" is something other entirely. It's really very complex. That is pretty normal.

We are all unique and special. Today everyone wants to stick the moniker, "artist" on their job title. It's not that easy. Some are physically unable to be normal. I'm somewhat dyslexic for instance. Something not that uncommon in the artist community. For that I am a little different from those who do not have that struggle. You can not see it, you may not ever know by looking at me but it has helped alter my life in unusual ways I believe. It also gave me some maybe abnormal advantages.

 

Mary Bedy

8 Years Ago

I hate conventions. I hate that for years if you were a man and owned a mini-van you were considered less than a man. What a bunch of bull. I hate it when women go out in -10 temperatures without anything on their heads (usually young women), because they don't want to mess up their hair. Who the heck cares? Get over yourself. I don't own a tablet and never had an i-pod. So what? That doesn't make me out of touch, that means I didn't feel like wasting my money on something I didn't want or need.

I don't know what normal is either, but I never wanted to be part of it. Also, my kids friends always thought I was "different and cool". I don't know what they think now that a lot of them are middle aged, but a lot of them are not "normal" as adults either, which I really appreciate.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Favorite commercial, Dr. Pepper. Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? The Original taste of Dr. Pepper, the commercial seems to be based on being one of a group and being an original at the same time.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Controlling groups of people is sort of an art in itself. Schools, Religion, governments are all masters of the craft. In some cases it is done by humans strong need to belong, in others it is more a conform or die thing.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

I am wondering if the pressure to conform to norms is greater today than the past? The greater the population the more the need to keep everyone in line becomes otherwise you have anarchy!

 

Mary Bedy

8 Years Ago

Well some of that comes from childhood. I was painfully shy as a kid and I didn't want to do anything to draw attention to myself. Fortunately, I grew out of it quickly and I couldn't care less what people think of me now, but a lot of people keep that mentality for most of their lives. They want to be accepted and the only way they think they can be accepted is to conform to what everyone thinks they should say, do, wear, own....

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

I could see the opposite reaction occurring as well. The greater the pressure to conform the more some people fight to stand out from the crowd.

 

Mary Bedy

8 Years Ago

True, but those would probably be the "rebellious" kids. I didn't even want to be noticed. High school for me was a living hell. I had friends, but they were what would be called today the "nerds".

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Mary, I can relate I was on the chess team!

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Mary Bedy

8 Years Ago

Yeah, college for me was liberating. Although I did wear bell-bottoms, fringed shirts, granny dresses (if anyone remembers those) my hair was down to my waist and I went bra-less, and I guess I was conforming somewhat, I never wore the headband LOL.

 

Mario Carta

8 Years Ago

I think if artists in general weren't so full of themselves we would not be having this discussion, Ronald I agree, artist are not special and I tend to believe they are as normal or abnormal as any other person regardless of profession, skills, and natural or learned talents. No man is an Island.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Well Vincent that is an interesting question. I see a bit over 900 students each week. We have two grades we give, one is based on effort and the other is based on skill. Quite honestly I am a very easy grader since I disagree with giving students the age I work with grades in art at all.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Joe,

That video is dated Feb. 2008, almost all of it or all of it is considered not true, not valid for several years now.

The science, the ability to have insights into how the brain functions were nil in 2008. We, the human race, are only now entering into valid studies of how the human brain works and the structures therein.

Dave

 

Joe Burgess

8 Years Ago

David, you are correct.
However, there is more to that video than an attempt to assign brain functionality.
I find the polarity in perspective to be much more fascinating.

Also, it is still believed that the hemispheres perform different functions, it's just now understood that people don't necessarily favor one side over the other.

 

Vincent Von Frese

8 Years Ago

Professor Irwin Corey has a non-grading policy. It seems that if anyone makes it to class more trance a semester they are good to go on into the world imparting to others their theories and delusions about the world of art.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Joe,

The parts and regions and smaller parts of the brain share functionality. It is really not a hemispherical matter.

My auditory, like yours, splits up what is heard into small parts that for want of a better word rattle around into all sorts of places in the brain, not just left or right, not even across the human race primarily left or right. Not divided up by emotions or logic either.

For me, my auditory for languages suffered from birth. My auditory for music and maths is extremely good. But there is no primary part of the brain that makes that reality. It is all of the brain.

Dave

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Vincent, Ron,

We had a very loose grading system at UCONN, effort and skill, but grades for the class at times were set aside. And subjectivity played a roll.

I engaged my professors a great deal. The classes were small. If I sat back I might have been a B student instead of an A student. But that is what sitting back will get you.

Dave

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

8 Years Ago

Going back to an earlier post:

"I am so sick of landscapes", is what I was told last week by a local gallery curator."

For every kind of art there is, I'm sure there is some gallery curator who is sick of it. If an art gallery curator says s/he's sick of landscapes, and you like making landscapes... all that means is it may be time to find a different gallery.


*******
RE: What we know about how the brain works: It's fascinating stuff. The progress in the field of brain research goes a little slower than we might like because of the ethical considerations for using humans as subjects in experiments.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

8 Years Ago

Grades in art classes are almost always a bit subjective. Effort and skill get you a long way in most classes in any subject, grades or no grades.

Where I went to school, we had grades, the grad schools tend to want transcripts with grades. Except...

I took one class at Hampshire College, which does not grade. The teachers provide individualized written evaluations for each student in each class instead. It was a liberating experience not to have to write a paper for a major author course. At that point I wasn't learning a lot from writing papers, I could write almost any paper as an expansion of the five-paragraph essay. I turned one of the plays we read into a comic book. The teacher appreciated it, I don't think any of his students had tried that before. He commented that the problems you have to solve to create a comic book are very similar to the array of problems you have to solve to stage the play: costuming, setting, working out how the characters interact, etc.

Later in my career, I've taken a lot of classes, including rec center art classes with no grades, and professional development classes in other areas from other sources. You generally get out of them what you put into them. If you engage and take the learning process seriously, it doesn't show up on a transcript, it shows up in how much professional respect you get from others in your field.

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

I've met artists that look normal, speak well, and conform on every level well...as actors, but I have never seen my fellow artists as normal.

They are far more intelligent, passionate, problematic, struggling, mean spirited, caring, hyper vigilant, and I could go on an on, but normal? No way.

 

Maciej Mackiewicz

8 Years Ago

There are Two artists that are my gurus, it's Modigliani and Renoir. As a friend I would prefer Renoir, he was always so wise. On other hand I would be afraid of Modigliani, this guy was unpredictable. I would like to talk to them about art and their opinion about infinity, about their Gods.

 

Ricardo De Almeida

8 Years Ago

Artists that make money are normal people; artists that make no money are just stubborn.


 

Kevin Callahan

8 Years Ago

I have been watching and reading this discussion from the beginning. One thing I come out with is that ALL of you protesting how "different you are" because you are an "artist", merely proves how so very normal you really are. Shrugs.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Maciej,

Welcome on board. We make work on the same side of the street, but one of us is walking on the sidewalk and the other down the street.

I do not know which is which. It is amazing how using the Mona Lisa outcomes can be so different.

Dave

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Richardo,

An artist in his gallery yesterday explained to me how the better a work of art is the harder it is to sell it.

Is that true?

Dave

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

"but I have never seen my fellow artists as normal. They are far more intelligent, passionate, problematic, struggling, mean spirited, caring, hyper vigilant, and I could go on an on, but normal? No way."

this is absolutely laughable. A typical megalomaniac / narcissistic characteristic previously mentioned.(characteristic 2)

Who are the artist?

1. natural artist but avoid labeling themselves as Artist are self confident and socially well rounded. The more skilled, the more adaptable.

2. the artist who are naturally skilled artist and love the title of artist have the tendency to be megalomaniacs with tendencies toward narcissism.

3. the self appointed artist are victims of academia's inability to define art and are drawn into the hero worshiping academia has manufactured. These are the largest subgroup and have skill that is learned through repetitive copying and heavy reliant on standards and references.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

I am only me.

Dave

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

@Drew, thank you for having me all figured out. I didn't know I was a narcissist or megalomaniac, but now I do. I like the idea of being naturally skilled, but I did go to college and when I was in art school, most of the people around me had more natural ability. My professors were really kind, thankfully.

As far as normal and being an artist, I know one person that makes her living by painting.

I know of other artists that make a decent living, but I don't know them personally so for this conversation, I'll focus on the one I know.

She may get up at weird times to paint, forget to bathe, make messes that can be described as "the house being totaled." She may forget to eat, won't answer the door, phone, go to the bathroom, gets depressed, or super happy, falls asleep in the middle of the day OR floor with all her pets on top (she likes her pets more than people), gets up at weird times, realizes she's starving, but has a screwdriver instead, the curtains are always drawn, she smells bad, but suddenly realizes "this is not normal." Thusly a few hours, she'll go and act normal, open the door and curtains, clean up, smile at people and get a few supplies only to return to the abnormal repeat of this paragraph. Sound normal to any of you artist's out there? I bet it does.

I'm glad for the moment, I'm not her.


 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Lisa,

That is the woman for me. Is she on my bus route? I only date women on my bus route.

Dave

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

@Dave, thank you. LOL, leave it to you to have that response!

You two would be a great couple, that I have no doubt of.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

We might straighten each other out. U never know.

Dave

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

"@Drew, thank you for having me all figured out. I didn't know I was a narcissist or megalomaniac, but now I do."-Lisa K

Response :

"but I have never seen my fellow artists as normal."-Lisa
Lisa, I never referred to you as being Narcissistic nor having meglamania but it appears that you inserted yourself into this hypocritical catigory. Was it a Freudian slip or was this intended?

David, in fact I was thinking about you when the hypocritical catigory of the humble artist genius who does not refer to his/her self as an artist came to mind.

The facts are these:
If there are artist in this world of ours then
1 there are artist who do not refer to themselves as artist
2 there are artist who refer to themselves as artist
3 there are non-artist who refer to themselves as artist.

If there are negative abnormality associated with artist then attempt to attach the negative normalities to one or more of the know catigories and see if they are true for some of the time, most of the time, all of the time or non of the time.

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

Not sure, Drew. Thanks for clarifying. I don't want to be labeled or categorized, but the quoting of my words made me think...

Thanks for making me think. Maybe artists are normal. I did take a lot of psychology classes but I got very bored with it all.

 

Joe Burgess

8 Years Ago

Smiling and bathing are for narcissists.
Real artists scowl and stink.

 

Anne Rickard

8 Years Ago

lol...now that was funny

 

David King

8 Years Ago

I'm not sure I'm an artist or normal, just a person, one of billions.

 

Maciej Mackiewicz

8 Years Ago

And I'm special. I have always been special and I will die special, we are all like snowflakes :) Hi David, hi everyone. It's a great pleasure to be here

 

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