Selling Pics Or Selling My Home...

I hope you are able to do it.....

To answer your question on how middle class Americans live on 40K is they live a LONG way from NYC or Southern California or Washington DC..... (etc)

40K is actually a living wage here in NW Florida as it is in much of the country.

I hope you can figure out a solution.....Here in Tampa, FL I have friends who live on much less.

Thank you JC and Sharon.. JC... you are right a LONG way from NYC and California.... My husband passed away suddenly 8 years ago, leaving me with a mortgage all by myself.. shortly after I lost my job and was unemployed for three years... Carried a mortgage on my shoulders with NO income.. then FOUND a job.. with a much smaller paycheck... Happy but suffering! NOW, trying to sell my larger home to get a smaller one.. AND hoping to sell some photos. SO not easy....

I was living in NYC before moving down here. I know just how difficult it can be making ends meet up there.

you move to a place that has lower prices and such. around where i live they just made new houses - 1 million bucks, and the house was snatched up right fast. we went on vacation and went through ohio, and i was looking at the house prices there for the heck of it, on zillow. and the prices were like 58k for a nice size house. it really depends where live and if your willing to move.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Cheap housing in Flint, MI these days.

Selling artwork isn't a reliable source of income. A nice little bonus from time to time but not something to rely on. Good lesson for having enough life insurance.

what I'd do with $40k ... but don't really need that much to get by.
I got by this year at the poverty line, but I'm just a single person and refuse to ever own property more than a vehicle... no tv/cable bill, no kids... just a mountain of debt from higher education.

TN is cheap for housing, but sales tax here is almost 10% which is a bugger. Anyways... tangent.
One day I will afford a vehicle I can live in and go completely off grid.

Welcome to the NEW America. $40K is no longer the middle class. WE all need to learn how to survive at lower incomes and lower quality of life. Wait until you "retire" and see how much fun, you're "golden years" are!

There are now more millionaires than ever, 9.3 MILLION and the level of people living in poverty, is also increasing.

This is the status quo for this generation and will get worse,

Rich

p.s bummer, huh?

Hope you can work it out! Come to the Ham ;)

I recently dropped from 45K to 19k disability, but due to Canadian tax system only losing about 700 month most of this was fuel cost driving to work so still able to manage barely. cut out things like cable and home extras , I use VoIP phone for $5 month save every penny I can. Hospital parking is a big expense these days but glad I live in a country with public health care Chemo drugs in the US cost a fortune . I would be dead and my family bankrupt if I lived there.

positive people don't always have great luck but a least they have fun when they're slipping in the muck

My income/business took a huge hit in 2008/09, like over 30% drop...which is partly what got me back to my 'art/photo' roots. Except I've had to almost completely relearn photography with the digital/editing age. I have yet to make up the difference so I understand the struggle ALL too well. Good luck with selling your home.

Heather, I think you might be the perfect person to own a tiny house on wheels one day ;o)

edited to add...yeah, I'd like to see 40K again one day, lol!

Mellisa,

Here's a better alternative. Tiny homes are over-priced, just to look cute and have wheels. If people want "tiny" AND wheels, there are RV's out there, like BlueBird and Wanderlodge, 40' and still in great shape, for under $50,000.

http://www.vintagebirds.com/

But another great choice, are these: LARGE "tiny" homes, for under $20,000, complete, land not included! Some less.

http://archedcabins.com/

I watch HGTV and the "Tiny Homes" series and while great looking, expensive and not practical. Great getaway/weekend structures, but to live in one.............no way! 200 sq feet? Most "small" family rooms are larger!

Rich

Here's 2 great examples, one "cheap" and one "still cheap". Click on the link and then go to the For Sale box and look at the first 2 examples and you will be amazed! One, the second one, built in 1991 and still "new", cost $500,000 in 1991, today, just under $60,000!

http://www.vintagebirds.com/

My "dream" was to rent our house, buy one of these and travel the Country, creating images, where ever we went. Check back in, in a year and see if we want to do it again!

Rich

Seven years ago I gave up 25% of my income to get out of an extremely stressful situation. You adjust, you learn what's most important in your life and what to spend money on, you live with what you have instead of upgrading every few years, etc. You learn that you really didn't need what you had after all. Then you slowly recover your lifestyle over a period of years with a renewed viewpoint of what your needs really are.

I agree with you on the tiny houses, Rich. No way I could handle sleeping in a loft with a ladder. But I aspire to live in a 500 sq. ft. home in the mountains someday. It is fun to watch those folks on HGTV who think they can live in 186 sq. ft with two kids and a big dog. I wonder how long that will last.

I've looked seriously at buying some land in the lower mountains in Central Utah and plopping a small pre-fab cabin on it, I figure I could do it all for about $40k, but that would have to be a vacation home for now, I wouldn't be able to move there until retirement, I have no way to make an income in the mountains of central Utah.

How do middle class Americans survive on a $40K salary?
By living within their means. They cut monthly overhead for non-essentials to the bare minimum. No car payments, no monthly membership fees, no Starbucks, no eating out, no expensive vices, no buying toys on credit. Quality of life can be very high when living on very little. Maybe even more so without the stress of trying to maintain a yuppie lifestyle without the money to back it up.

Diana, if you have any home equity, look into getting a HELOC instead of a traditional mortgage. It can save you tons of money every month while you're waiting to sell your home.

I understand - you need to sell your home BEFORE you can buy another, smaller one. And I'll tell you that eating out can be cheaper than buying the groceries, cooking, cleaning etc. You might have to find a part time second job - there are people that must do that. There is no way I could ever live in a smaller house, much less a "tiny house" as seen on TV. Be wary of a HELOC - it is a loan and must be repaid or there is a lien on the house until it is repaid. Houses are hard/difficult to sell when you still live in it and have all your stuff in it.

My bank account looks like the thieves have already visited it - and soon I'm going to have to buy 4 new tires for my vehicle - the quote was a bit over $1K (yes, I will buy GOOD tires - our lives depend on them and we travel a lot). The only debt we have besides the monthly utilities/insurance is the mortgage on this house. I am fortunate to be retired from the military and there is a VA hospital about five blocks away. I don't need to hear about the 'horrible' VA - they have saved my life, literally, at least three times. We will do fine, or OK, as long as I'm alive, but the wife will practically be living in poverty if I go first - and there IS the distinct possibility that could happen. We currently live on my retirement and her social security - my social security, all of it, goes into a savings account - my goal - live five more years (or win the lottery- and yes, I buy a ticket, you can't win if you don't play - even if the odds are not in your favor).

Of course you have to repay a HELOC! It is a loan! Roy, are you trying to say that a traditional mortgage doesn't have to be repaid and that they don't put a lien on the house until it is repaid?
What is there to be wary of exactly?

I just ran the numbers. Over the 72 months that I've had a HELOC I've saved $32,400 that I would have paid to a traditional mortgage. This is through a very reputable credit union and I couldn't be happier.

Whoa there! Never said tiny home on wheels was for me but it might be worth Heather's time to check out since she was planning on living out of a car in the future. For me, I'd go with a non-moveable smaller home but I am not crawling into a loft to sleep...ever.

Diana,

I feel for you. My husband lost his job two years ago. He went through a training program and got another (different) job. The problem is that the new job pays one seventh of what his old job paid. He moonlighted a second job part time. I have two part time jobs and we still are going to have to sell our home, too. Two and half years of BELOW poverty level income (with both of us working!) does not equal home ownership!

For almost three years we lived in a travel trailer after Katrina. 240 square feet for three of us. It's doable. Not necessarily comfortable but doable.

What really sucks is that after living in that confined space for so long, working and saving, we were able to rebuild-----only to have to give it up now because of rising insurance and taxes.

He is scouting jobs in his former industry as we speak. Good prospects but it means moving far away to a cold, windy, landlocked place. :(

Hang in there---we are!

Kathy

Diana, I feel for you! It is a tough struggle alright. We are living on $1300 a month for Disability, and Living in our Van. We use the Library to get on Line, and Truck Stops for Showers. Been doing this since Sept. With no significant sales, though we did have a big one two days ago, which I am extremely happy about. We have a cat that is a joy to have with us. Times are so very hard for so many people and each has a different set of circumstance, yet by the Lords Grace we will come through.

My regrets - I just don't see how a home equity loan can save you money in a mortgage. IF she were able to refinance it - might help. Eventually you will use up the home equity line of credit - then what? I suppose you mean for her to use the HELOC to pay her mortgage on the house she now lives in - OK. But she wants to sell the house and move into a smaller place that she can afford. Suppose she uses up a good bit of her HE and someone buys the house - Where is the money for the new house going to come from? Because now she will simply have gotten out from under the big house but will not have the up front money for a new house. I don't know - I just know that being in debt sucks. And young people (like I was) that spend it as fast as they make it and don't save for later - will regret it when life catches up with you.

My house was on the market for a few months last Summer through Fall - so I do sympathize with you.
What drained the life out of me was that I can not paint - while trying to keep a house in show-room condition. I hated it.

You look like you have impeccable taste Diana - I presume your house is staged ?

Best wishes, & any ideas on what direction you plan to go ?

Roy, I'll try to keep this simple because I do tend to ramble.
I can only speak from my experience with my lender. I don't know how other lenders handle HELOCs but I imagine that terms vary. I had equity greater than what I still owed and I have good credit. Income was not a factor in their determination whatsoever. They just need sufficient collateral to cover the line of credit. My mortgage carried a much higher interest rate than the HELOC rate. The line of credit I got paid the mortgage off in full. I haven't used that line of credit for anything else and don't intend to. The property is collateral for the HELOC just as it was for the mortgage. It cost me nothing to transfer from a mortgage to a HELOC. No closing costs of any kind. Now my interest payment is drastically reduced and I pay whatever I want toward the principal rather than paying a fixed payment each month like a traditional mortgage. There is no penalty or any requirement to pay anything toward the principal until the term is up (in 56 years!) All they require is that I pay the interest each month and that is a very small payment. I can pay whatever extra I want toward the principal. So I haven't gone further into debt and I'm not spending hundreds on interest charges.

If I were to sell this place before paying off the HELOC, they would simply deduct the outstanding amount owed in the same way that a mortgage lender would and I would take the rest to purchase something else.

If you live in a place where you don't have a neighborhood association / zoning laws that don't allow you to do this...

Have you considered clearing out one or two rooms in your existing house and renting them to housemates?

Ah, Kathleen - THAT makes sense.

That is a tough situation Diana, my hopes and best wishes are with you.

My thought is more along the line of employment possibilities that might provide more $$ income.

Back in the late 1990s when I was going thru a tough separation I found myself strapped financially to meet my living expenses on top of outgoing payments to my ex combined with health and college expenses for two children.

My job of 13 years was insufficient and I had to change something fast.

I opted for switching to "contract based employment" which paid substantially better in my field of work. I adapted quickly to doing contract assignments thru the difficult years and into my retirement in 2001. It was a wonderful experience that I actually enjoyed and stayed with.
A good portion of my work was done via tele-commuting from home on my assignments.

I know the economy these days has taken a hit employment wise,...but competence in the workplace is still in demand for those willing to find the work.

Some of the drawbacks to contract work,...short term assignments,...maybe further travel to some assignments,...and lack of good health and vacation compensation.

But,.... if you excel at the particular job skills you poses and can deliver on the required contract work,....you can establish yourself as a sought after contract worker with companies you will work with.
I was registered with several contract agencies till I established myself with the better ones.

Your services once recognized will be an asset and often sought after for longer repeat contract assignments that pay very well.
I've seen .. full time offers for high paying full time positions,...evolve,.... from companies who see your contract abilities first hand.

It's just a thought I wanted to pass along,....it worked for me back when.

Best of luck to you, many fine suggestions here from others who have been in similar situations.

I can attest to trying to make ends meet and had struggled some years back. Weekend jobs like dog walking, tutoring ,house cleaning and working temp jobs may help fill the income gap.
If you sell the house, moving to a cheaper location like Kentucky will help.
If renting it makes dollars sense while you rent a cheaper place, the try that.

Great idea Stacie! There are always odd jobs we can do for others to make more money. Clean homes, and get fit. That would be great.

Renting out a room as Cheryl suggests would be good too.

Remember that moving is very expensive. We have to pay three months in advance of power where I live when we move, not to mention moving is very stressful.

I hope you can make it work Diana. I've never seen art pay off; painting walls pays much better at 60.00 an hour though. Even if I sell off ten paintings, there was usually so much that went into each and every one, that breaking even is about as far as I can get.

This is a Great Discussion on FAA. It is an open forum about honesty.

I have a very successful friend in New York. In the 80s he made a huge living by selling "premium items" (you know, those pens and paper weights which companies buy in volume with their logos). Kurt, who retired at a young age and was a very good business adviser to me, once told me that "the last thing anyone will really tell you is about their money."

Here, in Diana's discussion, the Kurt-Theory is proving inaccurate. People/Artists here are being Real! I admire that and I am proud to know you all who have honestly engaged in this dialogue.

Ross Lewis

I agree, Ross! It's very refreshing to hear such honesty about personal matters like finances.

I moved from the San Francisco area to North Carolina because I knew I'd never be able to live comfortably AND make art with the cost of living there. Best decision I ever made.
I hate it for you that you're under the gun though, Diana. It's hard to make life decisions in general, but when there's so much immediate financial pressure it just makes everything seem dire. And you've had a lot of changes to roll with too. On your own now, and your recent loss of your two cats, I have to tell you, I admire your attitude - you seem to be trying to stay positive and THAT, more than even sales, is what gets us through the rough patches.

I had to sell most of my belongings to get the money to move, but now when I look back, it was just stuff, you know? When I moved here, I was able to buy a house but it was still more than I could afford at first, so I rented out the basement, and I took a part time job in addition to the full time job I had already taken. Art went to the back burner, but only in practical terms. I still knew it was a part of me, but I couldn't make room for focusing on it during the transition.

Stay positive, look for any way you can to close that income gap, even if it's not ideal, and remember - all things are temporary. You'll make it through this and into sunnier times.

With this terrific discussion, generated by Diana and others, I encourage all of you to never...never....give up your art. It is vital to your very "Being!"

I am 72 now. I lived in a world (NYC) in the late 60s/70s/80s where a photography career could be successfully cultivated by leaving my job as an Associate TV-News Director and consistently growing and showing my portfolios to many many potential clients. Always frightening...but there was no choice except to push forward. With that, I was very blessed. Today in the 21st Century, I see that those "Golden Days" of "commissioned-assignment-photography" may be over...or, at least, diminished. The One-on-one interactions with people and clients seem to have been compromised by the internet "relations" and lower corporate budgets.

Nevertheless....I can share with you that photography has been an essential element of my life since I walked out of those CBS doors in 1978....tough times...good times...."getting by" times.....fear times. But I never looked back. Art, for me, has been the center of my universe. Many of my successful college friends, now in their 70s, and who have made a lot more money than I, have admired me for pursuing that creative journey. With Diana's sharing, I believe that most people can relate to her circumstances and difficulties. At the same time, I encourage everyone to sustain the "center of your creative universe".....You will never regret it!!

Thank you for your humanity and honesty!
Ross Lewis

Um, I could tell you to vote for....................This person is the last hope for the middle class in America....His first name rhymes with fern....

The tricky part is sweeping like minded congressmen for some ground support. Maybe young people will wake up, think about their future and grab control of it.

Hi all! If your house is great, as you say, maybe put some room for rent through airbnb could help ... personally is not an idea that excites me, I mean, have strangers in the house ... but you can do it as temporary while you find your new home, I think it is more profitable temporary income to put someone permanently in your house, it's just an idea :)
I hope you get lucky and hit your goal

I just started driving for Uber in order to make ends meet. I have to come up with $5,000 by April to pay my property taxes...ugh. I signed up for the Real Estate class which is something I've been meaning to do for awhile. I know there are too many out there already but the way I see it you can never go wrong acquiring knowledge...whatever happens. Hey, maybe when I sell a house I can sell them some art LOL.

I went from living on a six figure income to $22K a year--voluntarily. A lot of people thought I was crazy, some still do. Got rid of probably 95% of my possessions, including the house. Lived in a 29ft motor home for a year and a half. Recently, I decided I want to keep living this lifestyle as long as possible, so I took the majority of my retirement savings and spent it on a better, slightly larger motor home. I've never been happier. I visited 11 states in the last year, and numerous long lost friends and relatives. I've seen amazing sights and met some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure to know. It's not a lifestyle that suits everyone, but it's perfect for me. I thought I might be able to count on a small amount of income from my photography, but it's too variable, so I have to budget to live without it. The sales I do make are a happy bonus. I feel like one of the luckiest people alive. I've been amazed at how little I actually need to live.