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Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Composition: Natural Gift Or Had To Learn It?

I didn't even know what the rule of 3rds was until recently. I heard people talk about the golden rule and the rule of 3rds, but never paid much attention to them because I already understood what a good composition was.
In the last few years, I decided to really pay attention to the "rules" of composition because I'm always wanting to improve and challenge myself to go from good at something to great. Perhaps not paying attention to the rules all these years has hindered me from getting better. Perhaps not. Well, I peeked at the guidelines occassionally, but never fully studied them with intent.

Are you a natural when it comes to composition?
What do you think about following composition guidelines?
Do you think they will make you a better artist or think it's unnecessary?

Here are some links that discuss types of composition very clearly:

6 Art Compositions:
http://www.explore-drawing-and-painting.com/art-composition.html

12 Pro Tips:
http://www.creativebloq.com/digital-art/tips-composition-31514496

The Golden Ratio:
http://www.creativebloq.com/design/designers-guide-golden-ratio-12121546

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Roy Erickson

8 Years Ago

I think I've always had an eye for composition - I'd never heard of the rule of thirds or the golden mean until after I had begun working with water color.

 

Diana Angstadt

8 Years Ago

Me as well..... always came naturally to me.

 

Toby McGuire

8 Years Ago

I learned about the rule of thirds well after I took up photography. Even now I don't really consider any rules when composing a shot- I try to make it look as pleasing as possible to me. I wasn't aware of any composition 'rules' until two years or so in.

That being said my composition is decent but not great. Definitely some improvement to go.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

What do you think about looking over the guidelines such as these links above?

I found they re-enforced what I've known naturally, but it also made me what to use them with more purpose to see if my work will drastically improve. Usually I just say to myself, "Somethings not right...I need to change this or emphasize this". Almost always winging it when it comes to composition.

Do you think that understanding composition is more important with painting/drawing then with Photography?

 

Mary Bedy

8 Years Ago

I think a lot of people when they start taking what they want to consider "fine art photographs" without knowing anything about composition usually put their subject smack in the middle of the frame and put their horizon also smack in the middle of the frame, unless they have some art sense to start with. I don't think I ever did that because I've studied art all my life, so I don't know if I have a natural feel for a composition or not. I mean, I do now. However, what really baffles me is I can make a good composition when I'm drawing something, but I can't compose a still life to photograph to save my life. I don't get it. I recognize natural still life arrangements on the beach and elsewhere and know exactly how to compose the shot, but when it comes to arranging objects for a photo, I just can't seem to get it. I guess it's a blind spot of some kind.

 

Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

Both, I always had the eye and I've studied it quite a bit.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

That's interesting, Mary. Perhaps the links above can be revealing for still life set ups and shots. Maybe it's a lighting issue. Lighting can make or break a shot. Also shadows and reflections need to be considered as part of the composition...here I go trying to help someone without actually seeing the shots you are talking about.

 

Nikolyn McDonald

8 Years Ago

I got into "art" photography (as opposed to documenting family events) late - only about six years ago. I have no formal art training. I have looked critically at hundreds of thousands of pictures - photographs and traditional art - since then and have read extensively about composition. At the risk of bragging, I will say I have been complimented more than once for my "eye" and my "sense of composition". If I do have an eye for and/or sense of composition, it has been largely and consciously developed through reading the kinds of articles Janie mentions and through the study of the art of others, keeping some of those principles in mind.
I do have works that I love in which those "rules" are definitely broken, but I like to think that in most cases I have a reason (good or bad) for that.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Cynthia, I think most Artists are natural at it. Not sure if most photographers are, but I suspect so. I wish I had always studied it too now. Perhaps I would be a great artist instead of just good at it.
I love what you do, Cynthia. Love, love it. I think you are great at what you do. Not just good.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

They are just guidelines, Nikolyn, so you aren't really breaking a rule, I guess. I found recently that when I thought I was doing something that just was pleasing to my eye and not necessarily following any composition guideline. I even had something placed dead center in the images, but they turned out to fall into composition guidelines after all. I might as well study them and know what my eye is telling me is a good composition is also an "s" composition or some other one. I think there is something so much more professional and could truly open up new possibilities if we are more intentional and purposeful with compostions. Ironically, leaning on a natural eye could be what is blinding me from taking my art to another level. Maybe not just me, but others too.

 

Fine art Gallery

8 Years Ago

Art is nature and nurture both. and Photography is Art. I learned this long long ago.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

the rules came from mathematicians that saw math where there wasn't any before. they took ideas where artists saw what made it look best and turned it into a formula so anyone can do it. the rules are only guidelines and many get stuck using it. they end up with boring artwork. if i happen to follow a rule, then good. otherwise i'll choose what i think looks best. people say, an item off center is best, for me, its hard to make products if i did that. so i center everything.

generally it does take time to know what feels right. color balance, subject balance, light balance, shadows, contrast, story etc, all that is important and it takes time to master. but not everyone can do it, some people just don't have a sense for art.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Crystal Wightman

8 Years Ago

Comes natural to me.
Years ago, when I first got into photography, more then just snapping a picture, I was on a photography forum and they were talking about rule of thirds and bokeh. At the time, I haven't heard of those terms. Then I realized my photos were following rule of thirds and I had good bokeh.
About a year ago, went through some pictures I took as a kid, which was nothing exciting, but I had a good eye then, following the rule of thirds even on a picture of a stuff animal or a dog. lol I only wish I realized my talent when I was a kid.

 

Jim Whalen

8 Years Ago

It was both for me, a natural ability or eye and I studied.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

I remember posting something here and someone commenting that I had an eye for composition, something that can't be taught. It was off topic for the thread so I didn't discuss it at the time but I totally disagree, I don't believe I was born with any artistic ability whatsoever, at least not any more than the average person. My abilities have come from study and practice, and that includes composition.

One of the best books ever written about composition is by Egdar Payne called "The Compostition of Outdoor Painting". I believe any landscape artist would benefit greatly by reading and applying that book, even photographers.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

It is really natural or is it the result of looking at lots of great art over the years? Maybe people say its natural because it has become natural after lots of work.

Can it be taught? Of course. But teaching can come from experience and observation.

----

How does Bokeh fit in? Boken is the out of focus area of a photograph.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

"Art is seldom the result of true genius; rather, it is the product of hard work and skills learned and tenaciously practiced by regular people." - Sally Mann from "Hold Still"

BTW - there was a great discussion of composition about 10 months ago - http://pixels.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2396101

 

Don Engler

8 Years Ago

I must not know the rule of 3rds, I just paint what I like and paint it the way I think it looks good, might be another reason I don't sell.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Don - this is the only reason you are not selling - VIEWS:3,733

 

Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

Aw Jani, you made my day!

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

unless you sell pies - 3rds won't help you to sell better. having more work helps a lot and having a focus works. and what doesn't work, don't keep doing it. try new things until things stick.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Lutz Baar

8 Years Ago

Art Prints

Hallelua... I found a rule of 3rds!

 

Lutz Baar

8 Years Ago

From Jani's first link:

Diagonal lines in paintings are great for creating a dynamic design. They create tension, and thus a visual interest, in a painting that is different from horizontal and vertical lines.
An example of this design technique is shown in the painting by Paul Cezanne, entitled “Bathers”. He apparently was aware of using the diagonal lines of the bathers' bodies to create a very strong composition. The diagonal direction also was accentuated in the tree trunks above the bathers.

Allright, it is a strong composition, but in what way is it dynamic?? To me it looks rather un-dynamic like a traffic sign.

 

VIVA Anderson

8 Years Ago

Thoughtful thread, Jani, and interesting responses, too.

This might surprise you, but, I think, without having really analyzed it, that my music training, early in life, set me up for understanding....tone, composition........and my eye, in my art, is based on that training from the beginning. Then I chose Art (no piano at home), and seemed naturally able to 'compose'...........

oh, and as little sister, I drove my older brother mad while he was painting his girlfriends (what a con, lol) in the basement........they didn't strip, lol, but he imagined they did, lolllllll, and I then was already acquainted with painting , very early......so it came naturally to me. The Rules? unknown until late in life, thank goodness. But, I did study hours on end, from Art books at the library..............

And, true to myself, I was always recalcitrant about Rules.........sigh

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

I've been painting and drawing for forever. I've been studying images for about the same amount of time. Only in the last few years I've poured over thousands upon thousands of photographs and paintings and drawings with the purpose of teaching myself to see and know more possibilities.

I've always had the ability to undestand composition naturally, but have also gotten it through osmosis; meaning through studying successful art. So, I guess I've studied it in a round about way.

Lutz, I agree. That piece doesn't make my heart beat any faster. His work in general isn't on my radar. However, I did see some of his pieces in person while in France. Much better to view the originals in person.

I agree with that statement, Edward.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Jani,

I have what it takes to absorb the lessons. You do as well. Many do not.

So yes it comes naturally. And your new found interest in the rules or principles of this aspect of design does come naturally.

I am always open to a great lesson in the arts.

Dave

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

I tell people that they can learn the art of art even if they are not naturally inclined to do it, but I've noticed that those who don't have a natural bend don't stick it out long enough to get good at it. Lots of work behind a piece of art.
I was asked the other day how long it takes me to do a painting. I told them over 40 years. Every one of them takes a different amount of time and I don't want to be pinholed into looking like I ask too much for my art because that is usually the next question. Knowing compositions naturally has been as foundational as my drawing skills and probably just as practiced without realizing it.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

It is tough to be an artist and not make a lot of money...sort of...I am happy anyways....

It is far worse to want to be an artist like the hoards who join here, but not have enough of the basic talent and skills to do the work.

Bit like two scratch golfers I have known over the years. As younger guys they were never quite good enough to be on the tour. Their
lives were broken by that reality. Or perhaps the chicken came before the egg and with broken lives they could not join the tour.
Nothing worse than being an absolutely great golfer who never make it on to the tour.

Dave

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

I'm not going to look at rules and stuff as I've never learned them and I'm happy with what I do. If I went off to learn them, and found I was wrong, then it would spoil how I see my work, and I don't want that. I hope I'm not one of the talentless ones as Dave mentioned but if so, so be it

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Abbie,

You are hardly one of the talentless ones. No not at all.

Like a duck in water I am open to great lessons in art. Possibly more open to lessons in art than life.

Are you short changing yourself? Possibly?
Do not sell yourself short.

Dave

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

Jani, thank you so much, I'm studying and learning.

I'm not so sure composition comes so easily, it's very difficult to master these concepts as a painter, but you can be sure, that I'll be planning a few more of my paintings in the near future with all this education.

Thanks again.

 

Lutz Baar

8 Years Ago

Not sure if painted art and realistic photography share the same guides for composition.
Let me use one of your paintings as an example:

Sell Art Online

This is a powerful, strong composition thanks to the elements arrangement of forground and background and the colorcombo.

If it had beein a realistic photograph of a horse instead, one could easily find it to hard "cropped".

 

Kathleen Bishop

8 Years Ago

Some people come by it naturally, some get better with practice. Sometimes it takes someone else's eye to help understand why things aren't working. I have a trusted partner who has a great eye. Whenever something is off but I can't figure it out, he spots it at first glance and he is right on every time. Whether you're born with it or not, practice makes it much easier to line up a shot on the fly. I've gotten better at composing shots in the field because in post-editing I often crop wildlife shots that I've taken with the crop sensor. I try a few variations of the crop and that helps to see what works and what doesn't and why. It comes naturally after a while.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Composition is something I think you can fine tune but mostly it seems to be innate. Very hard to teach without the results looking stilted. I find that talking about a few things the artist should store in their brain is more affective than specific instruction.

 

Steve Cossey

8 Years Ago

For photography using a tripod REALLY helps with composition. When handholding it is natural to just center your subject and shoot. By using a tripod it gives you more time to recompose and think about composition before pulling the trigger.

In my opinion the rules are good to be aware of and to work with. More importantly though by being familiar with the rules you can understand when to BREAK them.
Sometimes you can add a great deal of tension into your composition and turn a good shot into an "omg" shot by doing so.

 

My wife has a fantastic eye for composition, seems naturally able to frame a shot beautifully. The technicalities of photography e.g. exposure, dpeth of field etc she is still learning.

I am the opposite, I can grasp the technicalities easier but have to work a lot harder to compose a good shot.

With our powers combined....

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

Lutz and Mike, none of what you had to say to Dave was pertinent to this thread. It was also, Lutz, exceptionally rude to another artist.

It is up to neither of you what an artist does with their own work.

I expect artists to stick together, not rip into each other in public.

Sorry Jani, I removed the posts so it may not make much sense



 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Ronald,

I agree that it is innate, but we might look at some of the latest theory on how the brain develops.

It is now thought that babies into age 6 develop language skills and most importantly from age 6 forward start to combine in their brains
parts of their various skillsets together into larger skillsets. Islands coming together in the brain gathering if you will into larger masses of ability.

So we never really expect much from a crayon drawing at age 4. But we can see the beginnings of innate talent. Lessons are easier
to learn for the person with the innate talent than for the person who has a brain without the capacities in some way or another. Remember
some people have some of the talents and others have more of the talents the day they are born. The outside world has to play a major role in bring
that together. That is why I actually get pleasure out of a great lesson on the principles of artistic design.

The Digital pointed out how Jean‑Michel Basquiat opened up the modern palette to orange and pink. That lesson by the digital was an eye opener that I really
enjoyed a great deal. In a later thread you Ronald pointed out Googling "contemporary art" to see what it was. The palette in contemporary art is very brightly colored possibly because of Jean‑Michel Basquiat influence. This is pertinent to composition because such a bright colorful palette is bold, changing what the artist does with the framing of his subject matter.

Dave

 

Don Zawadiwsky

8 Years Ago

I used to have a terrible time with composition.

Now it's almost ingrained. I also believe that sometimes the best pictures are those which break traditional composition rules.

The best example that comes to mind is Arnold Newman's B&W portrait of Igor Stravinsky at the piano.

We wouldn't normally put the artist at the extreme lower left corner of the image - almost falling off the photo - but the stark outlines of the piano top beautifully balance the cornered artist.

 

Angelina Tamez

8 Years Ago

I think for me it's been natural talent that I've learned to fine hone. I experiment with composition often.

I don't employ any rules to my compositions. I notice some naturally adhere to rules though. I just make what I think looks good.

 

Roger Swezey

8 Years Ago

To me:

Composition, as with all aspects of art, requires intention
,
And when work represent those intentions, one has "art"

And when that "art" strikes a chord *with others that art may be considered "Fine"

To compose what one intends one must be able to SEE

To be able to see one must be FREE

Free of ALL rules

Rules stifle


*EDIT:

Changed "an accord" to "a chord"

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

I want to take the time to respond. Bear with me.

Edit: I agree with you completely, Kathleen.

I understand what you are saying, Roger. I am guilty, in a good way, of doing exactly that in my past; however, I am at the same time guilty of pride in being a "natural" and not being willing to really look at why there are rules in the first place. There has to be a balance somewhere.
Too much pride begets a lack of learning and limits growth potential.
Too little courage to just do stuff because art does come to you naturally...there was a time when blank canvas or blank paper scared me. It took years of saying, "It's only paper." Whether it was pride (arrogance) or fear or the combination, I don't know.
Now, I don't care. Bottom line, I wasn't balanced in my thinking and cared too much about what people thought. Now, I'm much more secure in my ability and knowledge or the lack thereof.

Pride and fear have taken a back seat.

Now, I just want to fulfill my potential. Now, when reading rules or guidelines for composition I hope to glean from it without losing the spontaneity of the creation itself.

 

Joe Burgess

8 Years Ago

Rules are an attempt to explain the magic.
They are not a guide to creating it.

Magic comes naturally.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Interesting thought, Joe.

Edit: I didn't see those posts, Abbie.

You are very welcome, Lisa. I'm glad those links were helpful.

Angelina, I have done the same. The example Lutz showed above seems as though it doesn't fit into a composition at first and I didn't plan out a composition either. Turns out it follows the rule of thirds pretty well. Especially because of the darker colors. Even the implied line composition. That was not planned at all. I did colors as I went. I just went with what looked good to me. Trying to make everything support the focal point of the painting.

Lutz, perhaps, if it was a photograph, it would work because the horse does not naturally have hard lines and coloring like that painting does. In fact, I painted over this original the next day because I didn't like it. The new painting is this one:

Art Prints

I should have kept it. Luckily, I took a good photo of it first. These two should have been two different paintings. It would have sold. I have sold prints of it, but that was still a $1000 loss because I didn't set it aside long enough. A dumb decision.

 

Mario Carta

8 Years Ago

The only thing I ever learned about making art is what I learned by doing, never read anything on the subject of composition, rule of thirds etc..,But it all happens in a magical way, it forms and transforms as I work it ( the copper as it gets heated, sometimes past the melting point) , sometimes the original vision I set out for is lost and something else emerges, it's a process of life, ever changing and charged with the living spirit of the maker and the properties of the materials and their unique qualities, no rooms for rules, or preconceived or self imposed limits.

Art Prints

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

I think dynamics are more important than rules. Rules are a point here or there, but not a full discussion of what will happen if they are used.
What will happen varies a great deal from artist to artist and work to work.

I can only have so much in a given image. Trying to change things means shoving some other quality aside in the process.
That can be good or bad.

Dave

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Edit: I agree on learning by doing, Mario.

Don, you are describing tenacity. Well done having a tenacious spirit. A lot can be accomplished by sticking to something long enough.
I recently took pictures of my daughter and accidently cut off her head. Again, not trying to follow any rules. I just wanted to take some refrence photos for future paintings.
Sell Art Online

Turns out, this also falls into the rule of thirds. Also, normally, I wouldn't like an image that has sticks coming out of it, but it doesn't bother me here. It actually creates the line for the vertical thirds. I cropped one of the verticle sides a little when editing the photo, but wasn't thinking about rules, just felt it looked better. Later, I realized it fit the rule.

Edit: I disagree, David. It is worth discussing. I'm learning a lot through this very process of discussion. But I do agree that it will vary from artist to artist.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

I usually think what subject, what color, and where do I want the focal point. Everything else I do is to support the focal point.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

8 Years Ago

We're surrounded every day by things we see, things we think are beautiful, inspire art, or that we find ugly and jarring. Natural beauty, postcards in gift shops, architecture, street signs, illustrations in childrens' books, TV, the graphics in computer games, advertisements, movies, the packaging on the things we buy, the design of the objects we buy and use, toothbrushes, soup bowls, the shapes of windows, automobile headlights, the way our food is presented to us in a japanese restaurant, the possibilities are endless.

Except for things that are completely made by nature, some human designed each and every common object we use in our daily lives, some of these designers have had a lot of training. There are literally thousands of generations of human design experience that have gone into developing what we think of as the classic shape of a knife blade, for example.

Mostly we're not aware that we're learning lessons in visual arts or composition, we're just passively absorbing the design elements in things we see every day.

So... I don't think most unschooled artists whose art -- seemingly by chance or by attribution to natural artistic gift, conforms to classic design principles -- are really quite the blank slates they believe themselves to be.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

8 Years Ago

Janie,
Good articles, BTW, thank you for posting !! (-:

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

I agree with Cheryl!

 

Roger Swezey

8 Years Ago

I'm so afraid that in this day kids are completely inundated with other people's visions...By living in this age of the computer kids are seeing the world through other people's eyes...They are not given the chance to discover with their own eyes the fascinating beauty of this world we live in....They have to be allowed to get out on their own, by themselves, to do so

 

Bradford Martin

8 Years Ago

Well thanks for the links. I am so sick of hearing about the rule of thirds as though it is the only thing that matters in a composition. I am also sick of the over examination of the so called golden ratio, which of course occurs naturally everywhere. There is so much more to composition and if I feel it in my gut I go with that above all, and that is what usually sells.

I learned the rule of thirds about the same time I learned photography when I was 40. Before that I did a lot of landscape design and i think I honed a sense of composition doing that. Turning to photography I did a lot of bird photos with a long lens. Most people could not even find the bird in the view finder much less get a decent composition. A great wildlife photographer once said get the action in the frame and crop for composition. I was also accused of taking centered images because of the autofocus sensor in the center. Funny because I did not shoot a single image with autofocus for the first 15 years!

I attended a lecture by a sort of famous landscape photographer back in the early days when I was learning. He showed us many alternatives including some in the linked articles.This reinforced what i was doing instinctively. Later I visited many museums and studied mostly painters. My reasoning is that painters do not have the constraints of capturing the moment. I learned a lot, and that has greatly influenced my composition, and reinforced some of the things I was doing right.
When I am shooting I use a gut sense of composition. Usually either me or the subject is moving so I mostly just try and keep the subject out of the middle but enough room to crop. Cropping I often with use the rule of thirds as well as my instincts. I pay a lot of attention to the negative space created by the subject.

 

Mark Papke

8 Years Ago

Had to learn it. Still learning it.

 

David Randall

8 Years Ago

The rules are great. Learn them all. Then break them if need be. Your gut is just as valid and helps you more many times than the rule.

As Einstein said, "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

 

Barroa Artworks

8 Years Ago

Thank you for the information, Jani. I wasn't aware of any of these rules. I just compose and like the aftermath. Some people liked it and some don't. My composition serves me more than anybody else.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

I like that quote, David.

Roger, thankfully, for my own kids, that isn't true. I have diligently worked with them to teach them how to see and gave them opportunities to explore on their own. When my husband wanted to have a TV in every room, I wouldn't let him. When he wanted to have a computer in every room I said no. When he wanted to allow them to watch movies on long car rides, I said no. When they wanted phones because everyone else had them, I said no. I didn't want them to miss their childhood or miss opportunities to use their imagination. Always sent them outside to play. We have an acre and there was 5 acres of woods behind us.
My oldest use to only like picture books when she was little. I had to teach her and my other kids the beauty of seeing your own pictures when reading words. I read to them every night and we use to have marathon reads every Thursday. I would read as many children's books to them as fast as I could to them in an hour. My oldest is now getting an English degree to become a writer.
It is rarely the kids fault for not exploring the beauty of this world, Roger. They need guidance from their parents.
Many mothers go back to work too soon. Some go back to work for selfish reasons. Some have to go back to work. Some go back to work because they think it is better for their kids because they will have more money to spend on them. I have found that my kids need me just as much in their teen years as they did when they were toddlers. It's just in a different way. They need me not my money.
This has been extremely challenging to do in this high tech age.
I know other families do the same or similar. All hope isn't lost, Roger and David.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

"Mostly we're not aware that we're learning lessons in visual arts or composition, we're just passively absorbing the design elements in things we see every day. "
"So...I don't think most unschooled artists whose art -- seemingly by chance or by attribution to natural artistic gift, conforms to classic design principles -- are really quite the blank slates they believe themselves to be."

I like how you worded that, Cheryl.

Some absorb it quicker than others.
Some don't absorb it at all.

Maybe what I mean by a "natural" is one who needs no formal instruction, but gets it by seeing it on their own, sees it as inspiration for their own work and then applies it. I know many, many peers in school were exposed to the same things as I was, but didn't see it. You then get noticed as an artist and then choose to pursue it further.

 

Robert Coppen

8 Years Ago

I think everyone has to learn it, it's just that sometimes artists learn it without realizing that they did. After all, looking at other artist's paintings is a learning process, one where you soak things up by osmosis, so to speak. Sure, part of it's a natural gift, but a lot of it is just stubbornly keeping at it, year after year, with very little financial reward. When I first read about the Golden Rectangle, I went and took a look at my earlier paintings and realized that a lot of them looked as though I had consciously used it to design them, but I hadn't. But I had looked at lots of photos of famous artists' paintings in books and magazines. And in museums. And maybe some of them used the Golden Rectangle and I was using it accidentally by proxy.

 

Win Naing

8 Years Ago

You must be very an extraordinary person what I meant is You walk before crawl. kidding

We all learnt by all different kinds of technique Robert mentioned. knowingly or un-consciencely from art school, books and teachers museums and galleries its help us when we create something in the future I think. Artist doesn't mean you have to make a living by creating art works especially in 21 st century. we all learnt all theories when we were young but during the process we forgot or brake the rules. Compositions is a rule cover a lot of elements in the art or photography. People talk about loud are art critics , picture editor and some workshop but all about using jargon to confuse new student.

Rule are exist to brake in the name of poetic artistic boasting ( sometime might not be an artist intentionally doing it). We read the book left to right in order to communicate emotionally with your intended audiences to please their eyes rule of third was used in an element of composition. If you use is all the time rule of third in your creative works like a beginner not good. you broke the rule of third by themes or subject or colour etc.. You know how to drive a car after driving for a long time you forgot all road rules and broke some rules..

boy and girl learn different boy learn craft girls learn naturally.

 

Jason Politte

8 Years Ago

I believe in the nature and nurture rule for most things, and this is no exception. One can learn the rules and apply them when necessary, but the problem comes when those rules need to be broken. Only nature can guide that. As in all aspects of life, in my humble opinion, nurtute (or learning) can only take one so far - it's the intuition that sepearates the wheat from the chaff.

 

Barbara Lemley

8 Years Ago

I think it has come naturally for me. Ive not had any classes and probably should. Ive just not had time to do that yet.

 

VIVA Anderson

8 Years Ago

Hi Jason, regards, and have to agree with you.........so much success in life is built on .. intuition...Yes.

 

Michael Dillon

8 Years Ago

........a be me for gift you must as tell can......

......me be as can tell you a gift for must......

..........must be a gift for me as you can tell.......

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Jason, I'm not sure we are breaking any rules ever. I think it is pretty difficult to create something without using a rule.

I for one would like to see some pieces that really breaks rules that actually is an acceptable composition. You see a good composition is necessary and every type of composition has been done, pretty much, but like a song, unique pieces can still be created.

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Cute, Michael.

Barbara, classes are a good thing because it helps speed up the learning process. Through a class, students get the benifit of an experts advice on whatnot to do and why and visa versa. Lots of different kind of workshops to choose from. Pretty much one for every type of need to know there is.

 

Karla Beatty

8 Years Ago

People place a lot of weight on "intuitive" composition, or what you feel comes naturally. I think that the way we have developed that intuitive or natural sense of composition is that we look at good artwork and learn from that. The good artwork has probably come from people who have gone to art school and been taught some of the rules or concepts of composition. Personally, I think its always better to know more, than less, so I do study as many concepts, rules, and ideas about art that I can. But I think it still comes down to this, and I tell my students, the best way to learn is to: "Look at art. Look at a lot of art. But try to look at really "good art" only. You will intuitively pick up on what you see. If you only look at mediocre art or poor art, that is what you will soak up and imitate. Plus "Rules are meant to be broken!" And that can lead to some exciting, unexpected art work.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

8 Years Ago

Ok, here are a couple more "rules," just for fun. Or I'll call them principles of classic composition, to avoid the inevitable conversation about breaking rules.

(1) No kissing: "Kissing" is two objects touching each other exactly at the edges. The numeral "8" is an example of two circles "kissing." Objects should either be separated from each other, or overlap a bit.

(2) No arrows to the corner. An "arrow to the corner" is a line, or a visual line, that goes directly to one of the corners of the page. The reasoning is you want your lines to lead the viewer's eye back into the picture. Arrows to the corner tend to lead your eye out of the painting.



 

Anjelika Furmanova

8 Years Ago

Know the rules , but ignore them often . The only thing that is important to me is weight . Where you place your object(s) on canvas can mean a lot or it can mean nothing .

 

Cristolin O

8 Years Ago

"I must not know the rule of 3rds, I just paint what I like and paint it the way I think it looks good, might be another reason I don't sell."

Don, it's not just you who thinks your paintings look good - they ARE good. More than good. I love just taking them in.

Here are two examples (of many) of very different subjects, both beautifully composed. As Mike pointed out early in this thread, the "rules" are derived from what artists naturally did. The patterns observed when looking at many works of art that appear pleasing were just codified and mathematized (?). Most but not all follow those patterns.

Yours may or may not follow the composition rules. But they definitely are examples of pleasing compositions.

Photography Prints

Art Prints

 

Cristolin O

8 Years Ago

"Look at art. Look at a lot of art. But try to look at really "good art" only."

Karla, I heartily agree with this advice you give to your students. Looking at "good art" is how the rules (I like "patterns" better) were derived. By having students replicate this process for themselves, they are internalizing the patterns often found in good composition, rather than just applying them by rote.

What is visually pleasing to the human brain does follow some patterns, but since every image is different, the precise composition of the elements of the image that will please viewers won't always follow the patterns.

(I suppose looking at "bad art" now and then could be useful as well, just to try to analyze what is not pleasing about it, and how it could be improved.)

Really interesting thread, Jani. Thanks for starting it!



 

Roger Swezey

8 Years Ago

As I mentioned many times before here on this forum:

I am so grateful that I was taught how to SEE,when getting accepted, 67 years ago, to the High School of Music & Art NYC (now Laguardia High School).

The first thing we had to do is sign a pledge "Thou Shall Not Copy"

And taught Not to be influenced by other people's Eyes.

We were encouraged to free ourselves of preconceived notions and future imposed rules about art.

Once freed, we, independently determined and composed our own particular Art.


And that made all the difference

 

Phyllis Beiser

8 Years Ago

I just sketch, then paint. I am self-taught so I am sure that I break ALL of the rules. I'll catch on one day!!! :}

 

Jani Freimann

8 Years Ago

Roger, that is really cool. So much more challenging to do these days for sure with so many sources of inspiration on the internet.

Phyllis, your work is awesome.

I think looking at "bad art" would be useful. Especially if it came with a critique as to why it was bad and how it can be improved (if it isn't too far gone). But not linger too long on that perspective.

Looking at good art would be like studying real money so you can recognize the counterfeit. So I get that approach too.

Anjelika, yes, weight is very important. I used the word balance. Balance in the subject and in color use.

Cheryl: one I try to keep from doing besides what you say is making triangle in the corners.

I have a friend who makes a "sin pile" out of art she does that she doesn't like. Ocassionally she goes through the pile and transforms the art into great pieces. Usually, it's a slight recomposition and negative shape painting added that fixes them. I learn a lot when watching her transform her sin pile to heavenly pieces of art.

 

This discussion is closed.