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Discussion
8 Years Ago
When you open your doors you don't always get fresh air.
Be strong Paris.
Reply Order
8 Years Ago
Parisians are among the kindest people we have encountered in our many travels. Last night we watched much of this from our balcony in the 11th District and, while much of this will remain in our memories, Paris is still Paris.
Je suis Paris!!!
8 Years Ago
"Danl. what does your comment mean?"
Cynthia, I could be wrong, but I interpret Danl's statement as "be careful who you invite to live in one's country." "A wolf in sheeps clothing" saying comes to mind also.
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
8 Years Ago
It would seem Danl knows by experience.
Sorry to see this happen to the country Danl. Much of my family live in France, and they are pretty upset about this situation... and the direction the country is going regarding the refugees and the changes in laws regarding the middle eastern invasion. A terrible result.
Praying for France!
8 Years Ago
My heart goes to the innocent victims and their loved ones.
FYI: From the news: France has declared a national state of emergency after at least 128 people were killed and 180 people were injured in a gun and bomb attacks at five different locations in Paris on Friday night. Police believe all of the gunmen are dead - seven killed themselves with explosives vests and one was shot dead by the security forces
8 Years Ago
This is just so horrible. I grieve for the innocent victims. I grieve for the loss of freedoms that comes from the criminal abuse of international hospitality.
8 Years Ago
Reminder all the other Muslims in Paris are not guilty of this because they are Muslim.
Dave
8 Years Ago
I took Danl's comment as blaming the recent refugees who have sought asylum in France, and who are in fact running FROM the extremists that perpetrated this horrific act. Hopefully I'm wrong.
8 Years Ago
The saying means there are exceptions to who are the good guys. Not everyone who has entered France is a good guy.
Thanks for clarifying your question.
Dave
8 Years Ago
According to the latest news, a Syrian passport was found on the body of one of the terrorists. The man had been registered as a refugee in Greece.
Maybe a few terrorists managed to come into Europe pretending to be refugees, but these attacks would have taken place with or without the arrival of migrants. As Cynthia said we have the same ennemy, so let's not draw some inappropriate conclusions.
8 Years Ago
It didn't occur to me that he might be blaming all muslims. Maybe I missed something. I hope he wasn't, I don't think he's that stupid. Most muslims are decent people who live productive lives and go about their business without murdering everyone around them in cold blood.
That said, the *individual* messed-up sick hate-poisoned people who did this -- I understand the news media are blaming ISIS and ISIS is taking credit for it -- don't qualify as "fresh air."
8 Years Ago
Cheryl,
I did not take Danl as blaming all Muslims.
Anger which this has caused makes people want to lash out. Hollande has as good as declared war. Can not blame him.
People will die over this act.
Dave
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
8 Years Ago
Noit quite sure how you can make this statement:
"but these attacks would have taken place with or without the arrival of migrants." My relatives who live in France might take issue with this statement. They might even believe that these are just a few of the many that have invaded their country acting as refugees. Running from is not the issue. Where they are running to is. Perhaps the wrong direction. Where are the factions that are protecting these people in their own lands?
However, history tells how this evil should be responded to and then contained so that it does not have the chance to have a voice in the world.
8 Years Ago
"...People will die over this act."
As it should be. Having beer summits, and talking to them (the bad guys) doesn't work.
8 Years Ago
The statement stands on its own and can be interpreted as one wishes.
It is an age old saying that goes way back in time.
8 Years Ago
"...It is an age old saying that goes way back in time."
Here's another one:
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's too late to ask who's job it was to drain the swamp."
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
8 Years Ago
So an important incident is now called politics?
I thought it was "current events".
Some events are more important than parsing the rules.
8 Years Ago
It is a discussion of a very sad event. I will not use the word pr-y, because it is religious. I will not cast blame on anyone because it is political.
But I will say...Stay strong Paris.
8 Years Ago
I am becoming more and more a believer that when we let people emigrate away from the problems,
the country they came from does not get fixed.
That goes for India and China in particular. Fix your countries if you have all that brain power, dont come to the US
and leave your country worse off. Fix it, dont run.
Of course the US history was one of running from the kings of Europe. But this is a new day. Not the past.
Dave
8 Years Ago
I believe isis did say that they were sending 20,000 of their men hidden amongst the refugees. I guess these were some of those hidden amongst the innocents which is what Danl is referring to as NOT all being fresh air.
What these people did was an act of war....We stand with the French. Our hearts are with you.
8 Years Ago
I have no issue with people adding their "thoughts and prayers, etc." to this thread. My question was whether or not this thread will be allowed to move beyond platitudes to an open airing of our political and/or religious tenets in this, or any other, thread in this forum.
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
8 Years Ago
Looks to me like Isabella already answered that question.
8 Years Ago
Kathleen, you can come over to this discussion: http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2793120
8 Years Ago
Not to get into politics, although I do agree with Glen above, but it has been reported that at least one of the killers entered France as one of those refugees.
The people that pulled off 9/11 entered the USA under all sort of deceitful lies and methods.
How can anyone not know that they would be hiding among the refugees? That is a given, imho. And now it has been proven to be fact.
8 Years Ago
When dealing with matters of truth, political and religious labels are unnecessary.
If one's argument relies on such terms, then I would suggest that their view is obstructed.
Glenn McCarthy Art and Photography
8 Years Ago
At times truth finds itself leaning particular ways.
To get to the truth of what is going on there is a need for distinctions to be made. It's unfortunate that we have somehow lost our way in terms of definition. It has resulted in unnecessary suffering and death. Today's exhibit just happens to be Paris.
Refusing to go where the truth is, is a symptom of why the problem continues to exist.
We humans are good at doing that and cannot understand why our infantile answers do not change things.
8 Years Ago
My thought in response to Joe's closed thread Us and Them
Us and Them or the Oneness
all human beings have much in common
we belong to the same race
so identical
in
flesh
and bones
we bleed in red as well
in spite of what mother tongue we talk
we
laugh or cry
for joys or pains
in the same language
regardless
major differences
in
our
colour of skin
family of birth
country of origin
and other factors
totally out of our control
yet, we have the same basic need for a living
and we tend to act alike for our own survivals
somewhat, our oneness is severely shattered
by the strong belief
in
dualism
that splits us into two opposite halves
us and them
him and her
you and me
in the end
it mainly depends on us
whatever needs
we
pursue
either air, water, and food or raw materials
it reflects our lifestyle and the way of life
and which way
we select
either
war or peace
eventually it swings back to us like a stormy pendulum
You and I,
He and She,
We and They
always
stay within the realm of oneness
All human beings are the perfect reflection of each other
Thao Chuong
2015-11-14
8 Years Ago
Tears For Paris
rainfall of tears for Paris
the Capital of Light
fell
into
darkness
on last Friday
the peaceful night
shattered by sudden shockwaves
of gun-fires
and suicide blasts
five synchronized attacks
killing the innocent en mass
is
absolutely
a satanic act of terrorism
a cowardice attack on peace for all humanity
let's
not allow
those madmen take away our love and compassion
replace them with their zero intolerance and homicidal hatreds
il a plu
J'ai pleuré
pour la triste nuit à Paris
Thao Chuong
2015-11-15
8 Years Ago
I am very proud of the American Muslim community's responses in the wake of these attacks.
The community here has been loud and clear in denouncing these acts of violence and going further in denouncing
radical extremism. Many organizations representing the American Muslim community have come forward.
Heard the list of organizations in the news last night.
Dave
8 Years Ago
I shed a lot of tears yesterday for Paris, the heartache and grieving they are feeling loss of the families who they won't see again. and for the ones who are lying critically ill in the hospitals my thoughts and prayers are with you all.💜💜
Why such evil that keeps doing this?
l agree the need, to fix the huge problems before humanity flees their countries....
Hurry up before there's more and more bloodshed in the coming future.
Stay Strong Paris my thoughts are with you every day!!!!
8 Years Ago
As long as we remember - There have been many dreadful terrorist attacks against muslims too!
Turkey Oct 2015 - 95 killed, 250 wounded
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/turkey-suicide-bomb-killed-in-ankara
Pakistan DEc 2014 - 145 children killed, over 100 wounded by taliban
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/16/world/asia/pakistan-peshawar-school-attack/
Everyone is an immigrant - 80,000 years ago we all lived in East Africa and we were all dark brown! Humanity emigrated, thats how we evolved
300 years ago America was 100% brown, its now ~70% white and ~20% black through emigration - forced and fleeing and economic, i watched the film gangs of New York, i didnt realise it was /near/ fact not fiction
99% of Americans are of European, African or Asian immigrant decent, all immigrants, hardly a peaceful event
The first nations of America were of Asiatic descent who arrived in the Americas 10,000 years ago. They too were immigrants.
Europe has been full of migration for 1000s of years. Vikings, Goths, Vandals, Huns, Romans etc all tribes that moved country to country, peaceful and violent.
All I'm saying is there is a big difference between terrorist infiltrators and migrants and refugees fleeing from hell on earth, we just need to weed them out.
We have yet to /fully/ address climate change, in fact many countrie have opposed action until recently - the impact in the next few decades will be new deserts, barren lands and more mass migration, starvation and conflicts, these are the beginnings of huge changes...
8 Years Ago
"we just need to weed them out....'
A weed is a plant that has mastered every survival skill. Look no further than your own garden.
8 Years Ago
When I heard the terrible news, this beautiful song, dedicated to a beautiful city, popped into my mind:
I hate to say it...but we're in the midst of World War III, aren't we? We're at war, and it's global.
I think we ALL have to be strong now.
8 Years Ago
YOu are right JL, We do need to be strong... in conviction and beliefs that are the bedrock of equality and justice
@Danl
The most beautiful gardens we now have - plants form every corner of the earth, they are majestic in bloom, the parks are indeed splendid, the gardens awesome. Weeds that take over and strangle other plants, need to be cut back and controlled and destroyed, as every gardener knows, only a derelict garden is left overgrown, with one plant or 2 plants eating out and strangling the entire garden for itself. But, the gardens are very beautiful with plants from every continent and landscape - a harmonious work of art.
ps as for 'home grown' to which you may or may not elude to metaphorically - the 'home grown' did not exist until the Iraq war went badly wrong - the civil war that erupted in Iraq was carnage, had the war been decisively won in months it would have been a different story, a great victory, most people supported that war against a tyrant, but the home nation felt sick every night at dinner, watching the news... the endless carnage... and the psychological / progoganda / ideological / moral war was lost - and so easily won by our adversaries., and we lost that moral war completely - replacing it with masked racism by some, wont heal that, bringing nations and peoples together in common goals will...
8 Years Ago
on a personal note -
I hate that term 'home grown'. I've had to face it, simply for being brown. I've heard people comment at that time (following the London tube and bus bombings), its understandable. Being harassed. on tubes, on the pavement. 10 years ago. A tube carriage of worried agitated passengers - instigated by an agitator - i quickly emptied my bag, that wasn't enough "He might still have a bomb in it" the agitator shouts out, so i chuck the bag contents, books, gym kit etc, out again, this time remembering the carrier bag of gym socks that stank... i then even sat on my bag lol
On another occasion i face an angry onslaught by European holiday tourists on a guided tour instigated by the English tour guide himself, i was lucky a Canadian guy came in to intervene. This altercation came about by 'home grown' being introduced into the conversation,
Bag searches are common now (~10 years) as is being frisked and metal detectors to venues - and this no big deal when done politely with simple explanations. I get frisked and searched in to gigs. Do they do this in France? We will all have to learn to live with this soon everywhere. Maybe sniffer patrol dogs for guns and bombs on widespread street patrols to. Maybe electronice sniffer detector devices become widespread.
8 Years Ago
"Bag searches are common now..."
They have been doing them at the entrance to Disney Orlando now for awhile. I'm glad they do.
8 Years Ago
France invokes Lisbon Treaty article in asking EU allies to support military action
We should support France.
28 EU states agree on first-ever military support to France
"France has invoked an EU treaty collective defense article requesting military help from its European partners in response to the terror attacks in Paris. EU officials say the mutual defense article is being used for the first time.
The assistance would come from 28 European partners under Article 42.7 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty, which outlines mutual defense among the EU members. Called the ‘mutual defense clause’, the Article reads that if any EU country “is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.”
https://www.rt.com/news/322429-france-military-assistance-eu/
8 Years Ago
" Article 42.7 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty, which outlines mutual defense among the EU members. "
I just hope that collectively and as individual members they have more balls than the UN does. If not, that is going to be just another case of symbolism over substance.
I read where there was a 22 bombing raids carried out. I would feel better and it would have a more significant showing that they are serious it had been 2200 bombing raids. Or at least 220.
There were over 40,000 "sorties" flown in the early days (34 or 35 days) of Desert Storm. Let's see how serious the EU commitment is. My guess is it peters out as soon as the news cycle ends.
8 Years Ago
They haven't had time yet for 2200 bombing raids. The 22 number was for one target, a huge oil production facility. And they dropped flyers first to make sure the civilian drivers of the trucks had a chance to evacuate first. They're not dropping bombs like maniacs with no plan of action. The oil production site is the main money maker. So wipe out their cash flow first, which can help cripple operations.
8 Years Ago
Yes, I understand that they have not had time... but they need to stay the course.
The fact that they even have to research to find key targets is bothersome in itself.
And dropping leaflets also tells key players to get out of Dodge.
8 Years Ago
About Warmongers and Terrorists
(To those war-addicted psychopaths who always advocate more killings)
Alas
it's disastrous
when madmen fight against madmen
with teeth and nails at all costs
regardless
wherever they come from
East - West - North - South
those extremists are in the same boat
They play the same game
kill
kill and kill
more killings
more bombings
until they could see the death of their last enemy
unfortunately only the innocent pay the full price of any war
either they died at night clubs, in restaurants, inside stadiums, or at any public places in a peaceful nation
or in beds, at homes, in villages, in cities, on a war-torn country
Regardless, which side they are at
both
must be
condemned
for their horrific killings
there must be no excuse
whether
those mass-murderers have loudly claimed
they've acted
in the name of Allah
or for protection of democracy and their freedom
It's truly an Act of Terrorism
to drive millions of people away from their homelands
it's also clearly a Genocide
to kill
hundreds of,
thousands of,
hundred thousands of,
children, elderly, women, and unarmed civilians
Don't forget the war-addicted psychopaths
who
sit harmlessly in an office or in front of a computer at home
spray poisonous vermin from their hearts full of hatreds
and put more gasoline onto the fire
Tireless warmongers are psychologically and mentally worse antagonistic terrorists
than those who actually commit the mass killings
Thao Chuong
2015-11-17
8 Years Ago
Siege, gunfire and explosions
"
Interior minister Bernard Cazeneuve said the target of the raid was the suspected mastermind of the Paris attacks, Abdel-Hamid Abu Oud.
Two people have been killed
A woman, who blew herself up, was killed in the raid. Police sources told BFMTV they had placed a woman under surveillance several days ago, who they suspected might be sheltering Abdel-Hamid Abu Oud. She is reported to be his cousin.
Another unidentified man was killed by a grenade
Seven people have been arrested
Three men, whose identities are unknown, have been arrested inside the apartment.
A man and a woman have been arrested in the “immediate vicinity” of the apartment – the landlord and his female friend.
Two more people, found hiding in the rubble were also arrested
"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/18/paris-attacks-police-hunt-ninth-suspect-as-germany-on-alert-after-hanover-bomb-threat-live
8 Years Ago
imho, When the risks of doing nothing are greater than acting, with such risks, a global force should act together
8 Years Ago
Please add to the list of deceased
https://www.facebook.com/writical/photos/a.860114884040014.1073741828.852894768095359/1057897470928420/?type=3&theater