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Discussion
8 Years Ago
Hey everybody.
I was giving my art sales and career some consideration.
Doing some contemplation of how hard I worked to build up an audience and sales, how sales bottomed out, started selling lots of pillows, stopped getting print sales, full stop altogether, and then...hello, I'm contacted for 3-4 different types of licensing and consultation work.
I'm not a lazy person, but seriously, if a person wants to know how to make this business work...who the freak has a clue?
I've been doing this a long time, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to any of it.
Color? Style? Originals? Prints? Marketing?
It's like 6 sets of dungeon&dragon dice. So multifaceted that the sheer amount of information makes it become an incohesive mess.
Sorry...I guess this is a rant.
I don't know what I'm saying really...I just wish I could make sense out of the apparent crapshoot of what it takes to have a consistently successful art career.
Thankfully, it's my side job now, and there is not nearly the pressure I once places on myself to "make it" as an artist.
I still wish it made sense.
I don't understand the art world I participate in.
Reply Order
8 Years Ago
Angel, I think you finally figured out there isn't always a rhyme or reason ;o) It is not a logic based business really. Tons of really good artists and work never make it. Longevity counts, the tremendous work you had put in when you were going full steam and quality of what you produced. Sometimes it's the hard work, sometimes it's who you know, sometimes it might come down to a bit of luck. Luck can't happen though if no one saw the work though!
Congrats :o)
8 Years Ago
Hi Melissa, I figured it out about two years ago, which is when I decided I had enough of doing art full time. =O)
It's not logical, you're right.
All the magical factors. Makes me irritated that I spent so much time how to "figure it out" but I really enjoy when things are consistent.
Most things have a cause and effect. Doing the same thing and getting very different results is annoying.
8 Years Ago
You can do all the web marketing you want, but it is not going to be effective as displaying your art in a tangible fashion.
The National Enquire sells millions a copies a day at checkout counters. It's right there in front of the buyers ready to be snatched up. Sales of National Enquire online are almost nil compared with the brick and mortar displays.
People like to see the real thing. Live. In person. Not just an image on the web overshadowed by thousands of others. Displaying your work (face to face) the old fashioned way is still the best way.
.
8 Years Ago
To make it as an artist I think you have to have a lot of irons in the fire. Each market has its highs and lows. A few Saturdays ago it seemed like I was getting a sale an hour all morning. Then nothing for days. Its so random.
8 Years Ago
It's not unusual. I doubt any have a consistent and steady income even those at the top. You want consistent, get a job. I'm not being nasty, it just is what it is. When times are good save some for the times when they are not. It's all in your hands. You may be able to make your own, "consistent."
Mike S,
You have pretty steady sales what's your read on it?
8 Years Ago
Edward,
I think you are right. When one area is faltering another may keep things on a more even keel.
I work with another artist in my frame shop. He is much more commercial than I. I help him produce prototype pieces. We collaborate on many aspects of the product. It's a joint effort, his art, licensing is often involved, some of my design input for both art and framing expertise. The work has to be framed and the frames make a significant difference. It's part of the presentation and marketability. He markets and sells to big corporations, Walgreens, Target, Lockheed, etc. He has not had a big sale in several years. We are working on a project right now for 500,000 framed pieces which we will have manufactured in China. Gigantic quantity, very small pieces and a tiny percentage for us not unlike licensing. It's been three years however, scraping along making new contacts creating new images and proposals selling a little here and there, etc. It's normal and a bit unpredictable.
8 Years Ago
I agree with you that it is unpredictable. I will have images that I pin, tweet, etc. etc. and then one will sell that I have never marketed at all. I can continue with marketing at the same pace and sell several in one day or got 3 to 4 weeks with nothing at all. None of it makes any sense to me......
8 Years Ago
You have to produce what people want like all those watercolor maps that sell all the time, you need real outlets like (for me) gift shops at the national parks to carry your stuff and/or you have to sacrifice your vision and work with people to produce what they want not what you want or somehow manage to build a following like an Art Wolfe or Peter Lik.
I think it's pretty amazing that people spend north of $1,000 on prints on FAA.
8 Years Ago
Monthly retainers will solve cash flow problems. They work well for my commercial art clients. I haven't tried them for fine art, but I can see opportunities there. It's a matter of designing the right package and presenting it to the right people.
When it comes to cash flow, it's best to leave "random" out of the picture until expenses are covered. After that, random is welcome.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
I agree that it is all very random.
David, I do have a steady and consistent income from art. I don't rely on or budget for my monthly average but I can reliably budget for half my average.
Carlin Blahnik CarlinArtWatercolor
8 Years Ago
I'm always upping my online presence by posting to social media sites and adding new sites. I saw constant growth in my sales. Slow but constant.
My busiest week was this last July while I was on vacation! I had 5 commission orders and 2 Originals sold. I thought I was on a roll. Then, mid August happened. A dry spell.
I don't doubt sales will pick up again.
I certainly agree this business is unpredictable!
8 Years Ago
It's been hard for me to NOT look at the day to day sales and focus on the BIG picture, but I have learned to. I will have a ton of sales one day...I did 1600.00 in print sales a few days ago (my profit). Then the next day I hear crickets only with no sales.......Then a few days later two big returns with only a few small sales. It isn't just art....Sales in general is unpredictable. Like others, I do make a steady and consistent income. When I look at the month to month, I am doing fantastic. But if I pick a random day it might suck. These days I make a lot more from licensing and commissions for paintings or custom dog portraits than print sales, but that could totally flip next month....I just keep at it....
8 Years Ago
Nothing I have ever done, marketing, has resolved into one single sale - it's all random.
8 Years Ago
How I make sense of it...
Of all the artists I know the ones with a truly steady income are working in their field for large companies... they get a paycheck every week and create what they are told to create. Of the artists I know that do their own thing, like most of us here, sales are totally random, even the few I know that sell their work for big bucks have random sales....and we all have other employment. This applies to all the art fields. The only exception I can see are...
The SUPERSTARS...I don't know any personally but they have the talent, perseverance, and as I see it, luck of being in the right place at the right time.
I look at those here, Mike , Sharon, JC and others that seem to have pretty steady sales and what I see is they live and breathe their art...24/7 I would love to do that but my creditors would more than likely not go for it. I doubt if I tell the electric company that I am switching careers and won't be paying my bill for a bit I will have lights for long or running water or a roof...And then of coarse there is the fact... that does not guarantee a thing.
I find it ironic that the nature of selling art is so random and yet the buying of art is so specific.
When I was a kid I can remember my father singing some song about riding high in April and shot down in May...I always thought it was about the random nature of the arts.
8 Years Ago
Actually, I didn't even consider doing art full time until I was laid off with a weeks notice from the day job. That was the first time I ever went over a grand on my art and decided to treat it as a full time job for a bit.
Now that I have a full time job it allows me to reinvest money into the art business rather than have to eat on it. I do still put about 40 hours a week into the art but really, who knows what works besides using trial and error. I still rely fairly heavily on my Abilene Theory though as soon as I find one others often find it too so I have to constantly be on the search for less saturated markets. We shall see if devoting 25% of my art income to advertising pays off. Time will tell on that.
8 Years Ago
Much like JC I got into art full-time by a major negative life event (two actually). I was a personal trainer/fitness instructor and got into a nasty car accident two weeks after breaking my left foot in a fall. I lost my job because I could no longer do it. I laid around un-employed for 3 months feeling sorry for myself and lamenting my injuries until one day my Husband asked me if there was anyway I could possibly bring in some income. Seems were running about a grand a month short. So I got online to find some cheap office attire on eBay. Saw there was an art category. Light bulb went off (I had an art degree from waaaaaaaay back that I never used for anything...so I thought what the heck!). Instead of buying clothes, I took 20 bucks down to my local art supply store and bought 3 shades of blue paint and a canvas pad with 10 sheets. My first painting of squiggly blue worms sold for 75 bucks. And as they say....The rest is history!
8 Years Ago
Online sales for art totally defy me, in person sales for my art are much more predictable, on line neither I or my art have any ability to really interact with the buyer,in person people can see, smell, and, touch, once the internet can do all those then it will be a done deal.
8 Years Ago
A lot of people in the creative world it seems are waiting for the economy to return to pre- 2008. That is not going to happen for a while I don't think ... I do think we are now in what it's going to be. So instead of waiting for the economy to turn we have to do something about our own economy. I grew up in a family-owned business where you watch the mail box every day ... today that's pay pal. I wouldn't have it any other way ... just live debt free and pay cash for everything. My parents, if they couldn't meet payroll or pay their suppliers they went without a paycheck to be dependable and have integrity. The employees knew this and it never failed how they would talk with others how much they appreciate their bosses, and more business came.
A few testimonies in this thread talk about being forced to do something due to job loss ... pretend this and picture in your mind what being a full time artist looks like for you, if that is what you want to do. To save me writing a book, listen to the podcasts at Ziglar.com on the blog for inspiration. They do a really great job talking about self motivation, selling, and how to have systems in place for small business. It make me realize the valuable education my late parents left me .... priceless.
8 Years Ago
I think 90% of success in art assuming you can produce things people will want and but is the sales and marketing.
It seems like most if the time when I run into full time photographers who actually pay the bills with it, they actually travel and shoot (non-locally) between two weeks and two months a year.
The rest is selling, shows, fairs, galleries and things related to sales and marketing not creating anything.
And you have to really want it, just as you would if it was suddenly your job because the 9-5 disappeared.
8 Years Ago
"pretend this and picture in your mind what being a full time artist looks like for you"
That's the problem right there Frank. I can picture whatever I want but the reality is, like everybody says you spend half your time marketing. I very much dislike marketing, so to me, spending 20-40 hrs/week marketing to be a full time artist just isn't worth it, that's just not the kind of life I'd picture or want, no amount of Ziglar will fix that. I want to be a full time artist, not a full time artist AND full time marketer. I recognize that means I'll never be a full time artist and accept it and am just working on art as a side income, but so far that's not even beginning to work, I'll keep working at it but I accept the fact that may not ever work out either. I am who I am, and the art business is what it is. Not every artist can make a go of the art business.
8 Years Ago
Frank, very sound advise! Also I have read Zig Ziglar over the years, went to his seminars when I was younger and had the pleasure of meeting him in person too. Great advise for those that value self motivation. One of my all time favorites motivational speakers.
8 Years Ago
David K. -- Sounds like you'r being real with yourself. Some artists are happy part timing it. Some do it just for the joy. Some have to do it full time. All of these are okay. I think Barney Davey had an article on his blog about this. What I meant by picture yourself being a full time artist is look beyond the here and now ( the marketing and all the start up stuff ) and look at your goal. Whatever type of artist you want to be you tweak your goal getting there but you don't change your goal. I don't want to troll this thread, so I ask David to go listen to the podcast I mentioned and come back if you need to. I predict you'll be inspired to take action instead.
Mario -- I think the way Zig says it is we need motivation as often as we bathe. Some people listen to his recording while they bathe, others while they drive in the car. But yeah, I was hired several times to photograph Zig at conference here in Chicago ... but never took the time to know him better or really listen to what he was saying. Now that I'm in a different place in life I'm realizing how much I blew it on that one. So my best response is to realize 'Failure is an event not a person' and to get started .....
EDIT: David K ... I just noticed you missed the first part of my sentence. " pretend this and ... " What this means is pretend you just lost your main source of income and turn to art to make it provide for you as was some testimonies in this thread.
8 Years Ago
While I came to FAA a year or so behind JC, our sales growth "chart" would look very similar. I also continue to work full-time outside my home and average 30-40 hours on my art and photography in my man-cave studio. It's comforting to know the steady non-art income is there if I hit a slump on FAA and as long as I'm healthy and happy, I plan to continue doing both "jobs". Here is an example though of just how quirky sales can be. Last period I limped into the last week having sold only 4 prints and was thinking this period would be my worst in 2 full years. Then in those last 7 days I sold 13 large prints to go from potentially the worst, to one of the best, non holiday months ever.
-Peter
8 Years Ago
Thank you Lutz...that image is still my best seller. =)
It is unpredictable.
I do appreciate the stories about how life pushed people to work smarter and create more of a solid business.
The need is sure to place a different drive behind how we to do things.
I like so many things...I never really found a niche for my art.
I've felt as though my art style had evolved tremendously but still I had not arrived at my definite style of work.
Maybe it's part of my problem.
I don't know.
I just think if we were able to see a clearer path to a successful art career than it be able to produce a more solid career.
Monthly retainers or steady art consultation may be the answer for some people, and I think that's great but I know that's not me.
Lately I feel like I've fell into more of a commercial art category, the large series I have made have created many licensing opportunities for me.
I've got some smaller residual checks coming regularly for those deals, with a chance of growing.
But they have also kind of bit me in the butt. I can't sell items that are now available on the site because I already licensed it for home decor.
It's not a bad problem to have...if I were still creating lots of art. However, I haven't been.
Having a few steady months of $500 of sales, dropping to nothing, selling lots of pillows, bottoming out again.
Lots of licensing, then nothing. A random sale...should I be happy or irritated that I cannot produce any consistent results?
My brain gets weary of how to make my art business work. Even if it's on the side.
I'm kind of stuck. Lots of ideas and attempts...but nothing I consider worthy of sharing.
I've become a lot more selective of what I want to represent me.
I don't think I've failed but I guess I'm a little lost at this point in my career as an artist.
8 Years Ago
I've made a living in graphic design, marketing and art for over 40 years. It's been a really steady gig. I absolutely refuse to spend even 10% of my time marketing myself and my art. Maybe 5%. Probably less.
The key is to be effective. Metaphorically speaking, I'm a hunter, not a fisherman. I don't wait for "them," I go find "them" and drag them back to the cave. I read constantly here that it takes time to make that first sale. They write "It took me eight months." Eight months??!!!! When I need another client, or more money, or more whatever, I go get that. Like, now. Like this week.
I practically gag when someone suggests I spend time on FB or Twitter. And I feel bad for the people who spend month after unproductive month thinking -- hoping -- that that's the right strategy for them.
I use Email marketing -- which is 40 times more effective than Facebook and Twitter combined. Is email the most effective? No! That's the lazy man's way to sales. When speed is important I pick up the phone. "Hi, my name is Dan Turner. Do you need a graphic designer? Do you need art?"
My two longest-lasting clients (17 years and 21 years) came from blind phone calls. I didn't even know what business they were in when I called. I do ZERO market research. If they are listed as a business then they might have nice offices and need art. In those days my first call to deposit check took about nine days. I'm faster now.
The other myth is that you need a ton of product and a ton of targets (everybody!). No you don't. You need a handful of loyal clients and patrons. Forget the 10-cent sales. Forget them!! People will tell you something is better than nothing, and you have to start at the bottom and bleeech to them. Figure out what you want and go get that. Just go get it.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
A long time ago, when you first released your keys to success book on here, I remembered thinking that you were right about not producing art without a need. However, I was also convinced that if I made art because that's what other people wanted, not because of my own personal interest in the subject, that somehow my art would become lifeless...without passion. After repeated licensing deals I know that isn't true.
I just created a design for a sorority in Forth Worth TX. It was based in my city silhouette series, but they wanted it altered. I listened to what they wanted and created it. There was great satisfaction in delivering a product that was wanted, and already paid for. Rising to the artistic challenge of creating what they wanted but also reading in between the lines to deliver what they needed does not diminish what I am creating.
What is art without an audience?
That probably nails my frustration Dan, being ineffective.
Trying to discover how to be effective has worn me out.
I have no delusions that I am the best at any type of art...but I do believe I have creativity to offer the world.
My art speaks to people, it's enjoyed, it has a place.
8 Years Ago
"Rising to the artistic challenge of creating what they wanted but also reading in between the lines to deliver what they needed does not diminish what I am creating."
Indeed. When you're creating art for clients, it's not about you or your artistic vision. It's about them and their vision. I love clients who push for the best; they usually get it. If you solve their problem and make them feel like a million bucks they come back, they refer you to others, and they open doors to opportunities you never knew existed.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
You're exactly right, Dan, about the email list. Mine is my gold ... and it is interesting to me how much my emails get shared. I know this because each time I send one a bunch of new subscribers sign up. Anyways, email marketing is known as permission based marketing. Since there are conversations in this thread about marketing I would like to emphasize that marketing is not selling. Marketing is everything we do to attract the prospect. Selling is asking for the order. In most cases we spend too much time in marketing because we're asking for the order before we attract a prospect and develop relationship / trust. This I think is the most important function of an email list ... relationships.
One thing I learned from being raised in a family owned business is how important it is to have a referral source. Basically, this what us artists are for FAA / Pixels, we bring prospects to this website. But Pixels has also helped us with our own referral source, one way is the recent addition of the retail outlets. For example, to pass an idea from Sean along here, I'm in conversations with my local 'The Great Frame Up' store and later this month we will be hosting a 'meet your local artist' event. The store is going to order and exhibit my photography in the store, and sell it off the walls. They fully understand from our conversations the benefits and commissions they receive by suggesting to customers a local artist.
Our art careers and business should exist to be a vehicle to achieve our life goals. The way we to this is to find people where our life goals would help provide solutions for them.
"The best way to get what you want out of life is to just help enough other people get what they want" -- Zig Ziglar
8 Years Ago
Since we have touched on email campaigns, I have no idea what to do with mine. As a result, I do them sporadically, talk about my personal life a little, what work I've done recently and that's about it. I'm sure I'm not using it effectively.
Great idea on your local Great Frame Up store, I have one 6 minutes from me, I'm going to contact them. That's a good relationship to build.
8 Years Ago
Glad to hear, Angel, below are two threads about email lists. Remember the purpose of an email list is to provide solutions.
http://pixels.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2681981
http://pixels.com/showmessages.php?messageid=1935582