Frank Stella: 'if You Get Into Art To Make Money, You're Deluded'

He's trying to discourage the competition? Actually, I don't know if this is the case here but I've seen an attitude amongst many people that "make it" that they were somehow special, a one in a billion and they honestly don't believe anybody else could possibly achieve anything resembling the success they did. In a word, arrogant.

maybe he is famous - but not rich or successful.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Yes, he is...

Just off the top of my head... Maybe he's not talking about himself. In general, I think he has a valid point. I see no article for reference.

Taking the 'point', and looking at it from a different perspective... Usually fame and fortune go hand in hand. If we look at the famous people in show business such as the acting profession (another art form btw), and we read about the millions some "stars" get paid, I would venture to say that most people don't think about the other 99% that are not famous and are not rich.

That's true Brian, it could be the quote is being taken out of context and if we could read more maybe we'd see he's talking about the poor odds of success, rather than an absolute. Like I said in my post, I'm not sure my comment applies to him, but I do know there are those who are so arrogant as to believe that no one can else can ever do what they did.

I found the article this quote comes from;

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/sep/01/frank-stella-art-money-whitney-retrospective

The last three or four paragraphs are what apply to the discussion here.

Brian,if you go to Gogol , write down
the guardian , click on search frank Stella
You should be able to see the article!

Maybe he's getting all the money... ;)

Because the odds are against you. It's like being a rock star.

Millions and millions of hopefuls, Maybe even millions of them are talented, A fraction of those have the drive and ambition required in addition to the talent, a fraction of those has the "it" factor as well, and a tiny tiny fraction of that fraction actually plays for a living and gets seen by enough people to attract attention, and then one in a few hundred of those is noticed by an agent and then maybe, maybe, one or two of those remaining might actually get a shot at stardom.

The question then is, do you create for that tiny tiny chance at fame and fortune, or do you create in spite of your horrible odds at attaining such?

To me, it doesn't matter, as long as people keep creating.

I agree with Cynthia's comment.

Probably because all the money comes usually after the artist has passed away.

Look at many of the now famous artists that lived hundreds of years ago - monet destroyed 500 of his paintings - and many of them pretty much starved while they were alive, and never got to reap the financial rewards their art is now making.

There is a reason it is called "starving artist" - yes you may make money if the art you make is what the public wants, but for many artists, their art is an expression of themselves, and sometimes an outright rebellion of societal and cultural norms, and thus they suffer, because they choose to stick to the art they feel is right, which later is heralded as ground breaking.

If everyone always made what everyone else wanted, then nothing would ever evolve, and art would be like the ikea of the creative world.


---Shawn Dall
ShawnDall.com

He makes clear to everyone that art careers are not careers in retail sales.

Like a writer any artist too must be original. Then appreciation levels go up as well as sales and money.

You could look at it from the perspective of someone who evaluates people's choice in careers. If your motivator is money, you will probably be happier as a sales person. If you want to change the world or help people, then social work or clergy might be good choices, etc.

I would take what he says more at face value and agree with him.

If the reason you decide to go into art is so you can make lots of money, you are never going to make the money you wanted. That has nothing to do with those who are successful financially with an art career, who got into art because they love to create, or love art, or whatever the reason.

one makes money when they believe they are already rich.

---Shawn Dall
ShawnDall.com

Frank Stella painting have sold for upwards of $3 Million dollars. I would call that successful and if he is not rich, it is because he pizzed it all away.

But I don't understand the fascination with the idea of artist that are rich, famous and all the negativity that says you will never get rich creating art. Has anyone ever taken up art thinking they were going to get rich?


I don't know of any normal or average person in any filed that has not said that about their profession.

Name one field of endeavor where you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you want to get rich become a ( fill in the blank).

Not many people actually go into an kind of work with the intentions that they will get rich.

"you will probably be happier as a sales person"

And you will be able to use that trade to get rich.

No matter what you do, if you want to make a lot of money, you will have to know how to sell something. Even if it is yourself to get the jobs that lead to the big money, or to sell your boss that you deserve that promotion that leads to the big money.

You... here I am again pushing selling! lol

Getting rich, or making money, the two are not the same thing. He doesn't say "to get rich", he says to "make money". Most people don't go into a career to get rich but nearly every one of them do it to make money. Most of us are on FAA in hopes to make some money, I don't think any of us expects to get rich from the POD market.

Floyd, don't worry. I'm not knocking sales as being an integral part of the process at all. But I don't think it's a primary motivator when experimenting on new techniques and pushing the envelope.Theoretically, sales people are more closely tied to monetary rewards because those are the most immediate measure of success in their field. People who get that extra rush helping people will work in a field where this is a primary focus. Nurses certainly don't endure the challenges they face because of the pay (even if it looks to be a hefty sum to some).

Excellent point, David. You're right in that I confused the two.

Well, I don't know this artist, but I can tell you based on only the statement he made that is posted in the OP, I have personally already proven him wrong.

It is entirely possible that Stella did mean "to get rich" because just before he says "make money" he's talking about the top of the pyramid and how broad the base of the pyramid is in art. That isn't exactly what he says though, so I don't really know what he actually means. I don't get the sense he's talking about primary motivation either, just that artists shouldn't expect to make a lot of money, but that could be said about any profession, very few make it to the top. How many people have MBA's? How many of them are CEO's of large multinational corporations? I know in the relatively small company I work for there's only one CEO and at least two or three dozen people with MBA's and even the CEO isn't exactly rich. Even in the world of high pressure commission sales there's always one salesman that kills it selling the same product as others that are just getting by. There are real estate agents that sell multi million dollar mansions and real estate agents that sell HUD homes. The spread between the bottom and the top may be wider in the arts but it exists in all professions.

Wasn't thinking that was a knock on sells Vanessa, I think you was right on to mention it. :-)

"Nurses certainly don't endure the challenges they face because of the pay (even if it looks to be a hefty sum to some)."

Nurses are the greatest people in the world! They are the ones that should be getting rich over a lot of other people, including a lot of doctors!

Agree David, both posts...

We are in the escape business. But we need to be artist/salesman. And now part tech.

Perhaps Stella means most people do not have the wiring to do it all.

Dave

"I am not what you think I am. I am not what I think I am. I am what I think you think I am."

I can not be my self without others ,
When somebody buys my art , I am being recognize by that person,my ultimate goal is to be recognize by billions

It's always ok to make living as an artist,!! just like any other profession.
I think Frank Stella , ment, to be an Artist is to be rich!!!
To be recognize by billions ( like Picasso )
Thanks to every one
Mani

It is not unusual for a parent to approach me with a child who is talented and sometimes graduated with an art degree, and ask me about being a professional artist. I say two things, if you want to make money, don't become an artist; and if you do, marry well. I don't think that's what they expect to hear.

Personally, I want to make my living as an artist. I have made good money at it, but it's sporadic. If it seems I can never work full-time as an artist, then I'm done with it.

"I say two things, if you want to make money, don't become an artist; and if you do, marry well. I don't think that's what they expect to hear."

That is sterling advice, Mr. Callahan.

The news that reaches ordinary people about artists is mostly good and oh-so-glamorous:

-- No 1 (Royal Red and Blue) by Mark Rothko -- $75.1 Million

-- Turquoise Marilyn by Andy Warhol -- $80 Million

-- False Start by Jasper Johns -- $80 Million

-- Portrait of Dr. Gachet by Vincent van Gogh -- $82.5 Million

-- Dora Maar au Chat by Pablo Picasso -- $95.2 Million

-- Garçon à la pipe by Pablo Picasso -- $104.2 Million

-- Silver Car Crash by Andy Warhol -- $105.4 Million

-- Flag by Jasper Johns -- $110 Million

-- Portrait of Adele Bloch-Bauer I by Gustav Klimt -- $135 Million

-- Woman III by Willem de Kooning $137.5 Million

-- No.5 by Jackson Pollock -- $140 Million

-- The Card Players by Paul Cézanne -- $250 Million

Surely, they think, a hefty chunk of all those millions make it into the artists pockets, yes? Ah, to sip champagne, paint beautiful women, sign autographs at art openings and summer in the south of France! 'Cause that's pretty much what we do :-)


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Dan, that's what I'm doing right now... Not! I am on a nice vacation in Mendocino, but that's because I married well.