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Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

This Really Hurts

Jean-Michel Basquiat's work entitled "Rome Pays Off" valued at $35,000.

Are images like this helping to build the vunerable fine art market or hurting?

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Jane McIlroy

8 Years Ago

I feel your pain, Monsieur...

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

You work hard on your creations. You are proud of your work. You spend relentless hours creating. And sometimes you make a sale just to cover costs.

Then along comes a piece of paper with some scribbles that took a few minutes to create... selling for big bucks.

You ask yourself...."Are all my efforts in vain?

 

Derek Thornton

8 Years Ago

I agree Dan, it looks really bad. I have seen bad work that has paid big many times, at least those pieces were colorful. This piece is just downright horrible. my kids could have done better at four. Even its meaning is idiotic, maybe the artist is schizophrenic? Regardless, if someone is willing to pay than great for all parties involved. It goes to show that in this field it is not skill but popularity that pays and buyers who just want to flaunt their riches.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Whoa is me. Life's not fair.

Be thankful you are alive and not dead of a heron overdose. The artist isn't getting anything because he is dead.

 

Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

How does this hurt? I rejoice in the success of other artists. Sad that Basquiat, who is dead, won't see this. His works are all high in value because he won't be creating any more of them.

 

Sharon Cummings

8 Years Ago

I love seeing art I personally do not care for selling big. It actually makes me feel BETTER about my art. The more the public sees high value in art, the more they will feel good about buying from all of us. :)

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Cynthia-

Are you saying that an artist's worth is greater when he or she is dead? Regardless what they created?

 

MM Anderson

8 Years Ago

In this case it's all in the marketing.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Sharon-

"The more the public sees high value in art, the more they will feel good about buying from all of us."

Are you saying that artists should raise their prices from $500 to $50,000 so the public sees the high value in art?

 

Alfred Ng

8 Years Ago

I am happy still alive and creating no pain here. Sorry for Jean-Michel Basquiat he will never experience the joy of receiving that FAA sale email.

 

Valerie Reeves

8 Years Ago

It's all about the name.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Valerie and MM-

Just basing this image on its own merits, aside from name and marketing...

It is serving as a example of what people conceive art to be. Is it truly helping any of us?

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

You think the artist sets the price? The artist is dead. If you want to feel better just think about all of the value you will create for art investors after your long gone.

 

Sharon Cummings

8 Years Ago

What is the saying....There is no such thing as bad publicity. All publicity for art helps us all. That is what I am saying.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Danl,

Happiness is an inside job.

If every time a Rolls Royce sold for $300,000 I said why would my art sell for $150k? I'd be looking to be unhappy.

That is not Audi Rolls Royce Bentley's fault, now is it?

I live in a neighborhood where the average price of a house is $1.8 million. My condo does not match that. I am not sorry about it.
I am doing extremely well.

Dave

 

Lutz Baar

8 Years Ago

"Are images like this helping to build the vunerable fine art market or hurting?"

Monsieur, it seems you do not understand the difference between the art market and art images.
There are millions of art images, many of them good crafted, but only a few make it to the art market, where other criterias are essential.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago



This camera is expected to sell for millions at action. My camera is newer, prettier, less worn and is digital. Why can't I sell mine for millions?

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Most of what man does with money is folly.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Danl, why do you only share examples of art from dead artists that you think is overvalued? How is that relevant to us?

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David K and Edward

Alive...his work was worth the same amount

"Nobody knew who Basquiat was, but, at 27, he was as famous as he’d ever be during his lifetime. His paintings had reached a then-astronomical $50,000 apiece. The Whitney and MoMA had showed him. Celebrities like Paul Simon had bought his work..." New York Art

 

Derek Thornton

8 Years Ago

I did not take Danl as being bitter for this paintings $35,000 value. It sounds like he is asking, in a nice way, is this art?

 

Jason Freedman

8 Years Ago

Psst...and I mean this in the most humble/tounge-in-cheek/friendly way: (ehem...DT...) Do you know who Jean-Michel Basquiat is/was?

It doesn't matter.

What does matter, though, is an understanding (or at least acceptance) of The Art Market.

And Art History.

And how artists fit in to both. So I suppose it does matter knowing about Basquiat.

No, Basquiat's work doesn't hurt The Art Market. Though any individual piece of his might sell for $35,000 or $29 million (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/basquiat-painting-draws-top-price-at-christies/?_r=0), one artist does not make or break The Market. Even though these examples may be beyond the budgets of "ordinary folk", the prices collectors pay for his work is, really, just a drop in the bucket worldwide. And, perhaps, a drop in the bucket for those who buy them.

I found this biopic to be a very good re-telling of his life story: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115632/

It also doesn't hurt me personally. What you sell -- or anybody else sells -- is all about marketing (oh...and a bit about talent...or just capability...) Some do marketing better, longer, more effectively than others. And, I'd say, success comes with the quality of one's business partnerships. If anything, I've come to see the success of artists whose work I, personally, find atrocious, don't understand, or otherwise don't care for, as an inspiration: "Holy crap! If THEY can make THAT and sell it...I *totally* should be able to sell some of my stuff!"

At the same time, I wouldn't trade a life like Basquiat's for the money his work brings in -- that's beyond a price I would pay.

PS: I know we don't know each other...but, dude, the "my four year old could have done better" sentiment is a cliche/pretty uncouth thing to say...especially in the company of artists.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David K-

I never said "over valued".

Price is a marketing tool. It helps to establish a value. The higher, the more valuable. The more the worth, the more the attention.

Create a piece of art. Price it at $500M. Send out press releases. You have a better chance of getting it noticed and published than you would at $500.








 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

So this begs the question - Do you follow your own advice?

One minute you tell artists to sell their work in vending machines. Then next you tell them to make up fake press releases like Peter Lik.

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Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Walk into a public high school that has dropped it's art program. Tell them they should hire an art teacher for $40,000 a year to teach students how to create art. Use this Basquiat work as an example.

Don't let the door hit you in the butt

 

Melissa Herrin

8 Years Ago

Its just another story of 'who you know'.

 

Patricia Lintner

8 Years Ago

I totally agree with you Sharon!


 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

The contemporary artists of today are the contemporary artists of yesterday. Abstract has moved to the forefront. The prices for abstract speak for themselves. The attention they receive on the net, magazines, in prestige galleries and exhibitions, prove, abstract is the new art.

Contemporary artists have had their heyday.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

I thought abstract was contemporary. Doesn't contemporary just mean "current" or "belonging to the present"? Another reason I'm glad to live out in the west, abstract isn't nearly as popular here.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David-

A list of art movements or periods:


Ascii Art
Art Brut
Abstract expressionism
Abstract Illusionism
Academic art
Action painting
Aestheticism
Altermodern
American Barbizon school
American Impressionism
American realism
American Scene Painting
Analytical art
Antipodeans
Anti-realism
Arabesque
Arbeitsrat für Kunst
Art Deco
Art Informel
Art Nouveau
Art Photography
Arte Povera
Arts and Crafts Movement
Ashcan School
Assemblage
Les Automatistes
Auto-destructive art
etc

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Is there a point to that list?

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

"Is there a point to that list?"

Nope, not really. The discussion as I seen it was never really addressed with the exception of me and few other posts. It went straight into justifying the price and defending the artist. Way off topic according to what I understood the OP to be.

 

Shawn Dall

8 Years Ago

what I had to learn is that art is not a skilled trade. Your work is not valued more the more work and time you put into it. It is valued by what it makes people feel, and by how rare it is based on how much success the artist initially had.

If they are dead then yes the value skyrockets. The sad part is most of your artworks will not be valuable to people because it is not the art that is valuable to most - it is the status upgrade they can experience by having a piece of you and being seen as "avante garde"

so stuff that it looks like a kindergartner did, in the right environment, goes from shameful to "ahead of its time".

"you're only ever successful if you are already successful"

I agree with you though - it irks me. You see it in galleries all the time. Personally as a detail artist I can't bring myself to do that - I would feel like I wasn't living up to my own potential and selling out for a quick cash brag - like making ikea furniture. Sure its easy, but is it something to be proud of? It's art prostitution. What you do with your "talents" is your prerogative, and you can charge what you want, just don't expect everyone to respect your "profession".

---Shawn Dall
ShawnDall.com

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David-

Only to say that these were the periods of the past...today's art movement is abstract, as indicated by the monies and attention being given to abstract.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Shawn-

"you're only ever successful if you are already successful"

and if you are not already successful....your work will be over shadowed by the popularity of abstract art....you will continue to work in limbo.

 

Dean Harte

8 Years Ago

The point is this, I guess. Basquiat followed his passion instead of creating pretty generic POD stuff. He was the real deal, and ultimately was rewarded for sticking to his guns. Same goes for Van Gogh, who during his lifetime almost couldn't give his work away. He suffered, but stuck to his guns. Guess that's reason for sour grapes here.

On a different note, I received an email form another art website whose name cannot be named with an overview of what was sold (original paintings) recently. People were netting 2000 to 3000 dollars a painting. It's not Basquiat whose doing something wrong. You are.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Dean-

Stick to your guns and die as an artist... you will be one rich soul.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

I wonder if jazz and classical musicians sit around and moan about the success of pop stars.

 

Dean Harte

8 Years Ago

That's not what I am saying. Basquiat was a real artist who had genuine talent and for whom creating art was more important than money. Ditto Van Gogh.

Artist still make good money selling originals. In all categories of art. $3000 bucks for an original while a Basquiat only commands 30,000 by a still living artist (and not just modern art) is pretty impressive in my book. Do you have the guts to ask yourself if your work could command those ammounts? If you aren't it's not because of Basquiat.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Sounds like the genius theory. The artist is a genius and just naturally rises to the top for the world to discover. Perfect timing and in the right town too I might add.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Edward-

Here is a classical violinist who adapts well to the pop scene....maybe all artists should try to adapt to the the abstract scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_w9EUg-nEg

 

Dean Harte

8 Years Ago

Kind of, but not really. Van Gogh made squat during his lifetime. It took the art world - and the public in general - a while to catch on to his genius. He was ahead of his time but refused to compromise his vision. The same goes for Basquiat, in a way, although maybe more scripted.

Banksy recently opened his own theme park - Dismaland. His work, his ethos, his approach, his uniqueness, to me are the marks of not only a very skilled artist but of a genius and someone who does something because he needs to. He would still do his thing without the fame and money. Great artists do not just talk the talk but also walk the walk. Some get rewarded, some do not. But their personal approach to their art and their talent is what makes them special.

As a photographer, I will often look at the greats and think 'Boy, my work sucks'. But to then say that the success of photographer A or B really hurts? That's just sour grapes if you ask me.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

I'm not sure Van Gogh is a good example, yet he is the most oft used. Remember. Van Gogh died fairly young, if he had lived into old age who knows what kind of commercial success he could have had? Monet didn't start finding commercial success until his late 30's.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Dean-

Artist do make "squat"....Last year, the average annual income of a fine artist was ($18,000), according to figures from the state security insurance office for freelance artists and publicists in Germany....France is close.

 

Shawn Dall

8 Years Ago

Sometimes you gotta do what talented music artists do.

Let's take lady gaga. Few know before she was lady gaga she was a regular girl who sang powerful songs just as herself.. but there was no schtick for the masses, and she didn't do very well - so she reinvented herself and made herself outrageous on stage, and popped out pop song after pop song, and the world went nuts over her - but it was a front - it is not what she is - it is simply what she knows the masses want. After she was well established she settled back more into works that actually involved taking advantage of her singing talent, and she DOES had good singing talent. Sometimes you have to sell out to get noticed and bought, and then do what you want after all eyes are on you.

the best places to make money these days are to be an institution that preys upon people who are desperate to sell and make money. Sites such as this where you make a cut off of peoples profits, or making a pyramid scheme type website where people go around trying to recruit people to their cause. That is where the money seems to be these days - all these people shelling out money to instutions that promise to get them more exposure or money revenue for steep prices. Look at record labels - they profit massively.

---Shawn Dall
ShawnDall.com

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David-

Monet never found success ....He wrote to one friend that "Age and chagrin have worn me out. My life has been nothing but a failure, and all that's left for me to do is to destroy my paintings before I disappear."

He destroyed 500 of his own paintings.

 

Shawn Dall

8 Years Ago

You know what nobody likes? An artist that's still alive.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Shawn-

Our time will come when we will be liked....be patient.

 

Jason Christopher

8 Years Ago

gasp!

gasp!


and yes what an incentive to paint!
passion

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Adapt or go extinct is more like it.

Or just rail against the cruel world.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Edward-

"Or just rail against the cruel world."

Perhaps Basquiat was just rebelling against the cruel world

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Danl, maybe Monet didn't consider himself a success, but most of the rest of the world did, he was not just surviving on his art sales he was quite well to do. My point is that had Van Gogh not died so young he might have achieved the same thing.

 

This discussion is closed.