What Is Professional Artist???

Definitions:

1: Sold anything
2. Makes a significant portion of income from art
3. Makes the majority of their income from art

any of the above?

I read a quote just the other day that said an amateur is some one who works a regular job so they can paint, a professional is some one who married a spouse who works so they can paint.

TL Mair
http://tlmair.com

The hard part is not making the art, but finding the buyers. Figure that out and you will be a pro.

Dave

Quality

Tl, I like that answer!!

People having a genuine Interest in your art vs NONE, regardless of sales.

quality
definite interest, regardless
and figuring out how to find such people

It is not an either/or.....revenue is what the IRS uses to determine if you are a pro.

Dave

But sales are nice, some times nicer than the title pro.Lol

My friend Andrew makes a very good living as a full time professional artist. He specializes in trompe l’oiel and specialty wall finishes such as Venetian plaster. A few months ago he did a Venetian plaster job for a mutual friend; it took him a week and charged 12K. Not a bad week. Some his other clients include billionaires and tech moguls. Right now he's working at Burning Man.

http://americansteelstudios.com/andrew-johnstone-artist-activist-and-advocate/

Jc ,professional Doctor or lawyer, they do what they love to do!! And they make good money!(they don't do any other job)
Is this True for artist?

create art for living :)!

Mani,

I have another job. I put in combined a lot of hours weekly.

I do not care. And I am happy. You can not start at the top. It all takes time.
And your work will change along the way.

Dave

JC's number 1 would include anything sold at a garage sale or school auction. Let's modify to sold enough to require income tax payment to the government.

This question gets as many different answers as "what is art?".

Thanks ,David

Mani, all that glitters is not gold, many Doctors and Lawyers hate what they do even though they make "good money"

TL -- Yes, having a working spouse (which is very common) can certainly be a pivotal factor in catapulting the artist to professional status rather quickly! If an artist has no spouse, no trust fund, no financial safety net, but must pay the rent/mortgage, car payment, insurance, utilities, etc., etc. then it's very difficult, but very doable, albeit intermittent or delayed, if the artist stays the course while earning a living otherwise to simply survive. There are weekend warrior artists in this situation who quietly advance their skills while working full-time and part-time. I've noticed in recent years many new artists (painters, etc.) on the scene who seem to have come out of nowhere. Others restart or shift into high gear after working and raising their families or retire. Others shift from commercial art as a full-time job to fine artist. So many different scenarios.

Mani -- I knew a partner with an entertainment law firm in LA who had a side job doing music scores for movies. Also, knew another partner in a large firm who did abstracts and sold them for unbelievable prices.

David -- "And your work will change along the way." I agree. The longer and deeper you progress your art, it takes on a certain maturity.

"... many Doctors and Lawyers hate what they do even though they make "good money"

Mario -- You are so right!!! And, how can one tell if the attorney loves/hates what they do? I will tell you: The ones who love what they do get a "rush" working a short fused, time-sensitive legal matter. The ones who hate what they do become visibly "miserable" !! Re doctors... well, I just hope I don't ever have one who hates what they do because I'm a really bad patient!!

Thanks Mario,
Hope what you saying is true...

Sarah,
As an artist , I don't enjoy all kind of commission art , I do it for money only...

"Why is so hard to be professional???????"

Other professions (doctors, lawyers, etc) require specific education, rigorous internships and state licensing. Consumers are assured of at least minimum levels of competency.

Art, on the other hand, requires absolutely NO qualifications. Anyone can claim to be an artist, and anyone can do anything and claim that it's art.

Some artists are highly educated and deeply talented; others simply crop or color public domain images. It's easy to see the difference when you compare the art, but not at all obvious when reading descriptions. "Professional Artist?" Really, what does that mean to a hyperbole-weary public?


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

"many Doctors and Lawyers hate what they do even though they make "good money"" - Mario

i was a "Professional" Photographer for over forty years... i love what i did, but i disliked to doing it for a living...

well obviously Van gogh was an amateur.... and only a professional after he decomposed... (edit: NB i was being ironic here!!)


the word "professional" has many connotations... it might be miscieviously, naughtily, be implying high standard vs substandard (edit: based on sales), it is therefore ambiguous and easily corrupted by intent, use and meaning

in a related aspect of the term "professional" -

to be a dr u actually need a PhD or MD qualification, its the highest degree by examination, mosts medical "drs" dont have that degree but are called drs to honour their status and hard work. A doctorate requires presentation and examination of a thesis, drs are not by strict professional definition drs until they gain the higher qualificatin and many don't. However we have reached the absurd situation where medical drs call themselves real drs and Phd drs aren't real drs. just to clarify - a doctorate is the highest degree from which the professional titlr dr, is derived, it is not a job title - where gp, senior lecturer, senior research fellow, professor etc...are the designations...

Most drs are qualified in other disciplines such as history, science, art... and are thus the highest professionals by training, yet ... are not considered real drs by the " farce of modern hijackings" , chuckle

Professional artist? I suppose is a combination of educational qualifications (a degree in fine art (sculpture) for example, reputation, body of work, skill, profile in the art world, and earnings, of course. Just for the record, I am yet to achieve any of those markers.

typically it means that:

1. you have a recognizable and consistent style.
2. you can keep producing more art
3. you create are people actually like.
4. you make a living on the art you make.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Some interesting stats: Five facts about professional artists in the United States http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/29/five-facts-about-professional-artists-in-the-united-states/

One thing for sure doesn't say anything in art or photography: quality!

As I said before: somebody's art, is somebody else's trash!

Mike,
Agree with you 100/: great answer!!!typically it means that:

1. you have a recognizable and consistent style.
2. you can keep producing more art
3. you create are people actually like.
4. you make a living on the art you make.
thanks mani

Thank you all for great answer...
Dan turner,Ed Meredith,jason Christopher ,Peter Krause ,Edward fielding,Colin Utz , mike Savad !!
Thanks mani baigi

everything goes together. without a style, you probably wont' be recognized. if you can only create one or two things a year, the stuff better be good or not many will buy it. if you only make it in your own vision as that - arteeest does, many may never understand it.

quality is subjective which isn't why i mentioned it. but it should be quality in your own standards.

its hard because you have to perfect your craft and that can take years or never at all. just because someone says they've done it for years doesn't mean they did it well.


to be very rich and be an artist means that

5. you have to be able to market your work well
6. have a friend in the gallery industry that can talk you up
7. be able to be near millionaires or higher and convince them your work is a great investment
8. if your work is junk, you have to create the - vision - so people understand that the junk is really art.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Many MANY JDs serving tables with their law degree.

Quality standards exist even if they are not regulated by some kind of state agency. There is a quality standard that is visible to the naked eye. The public sees professional work on a daily basis via magazines, TV, books, museums, galleries etc.

State certified certificates of quality are need only when the criteria is not visible to the public.

Mike ,
You need to write a book about what you saying,is werey professional !!
Thanks

Ed,

I agree with you, quality maybe all sorts of things in art, but it certainly exists and people will brutally turn away if you do not have it.

Pointing out magazine images etc v what we do in making full framed prints has a lot of bearing. People have ideas on where things fit in the
visual world.

Dave

Seems ripe for a Jeff Foxworthy type of routine:

You might not be a professional artist if.....

....your sensor spots look like UFOs
... your images are noisier than a teenager with a new subwoofer
....still lifes are dead on arrival.
....your style involves giving away your work to anyone who will take it
....your favorite expression is "Well, Van Gogh never sold anything either"
....one of your selling points to a potential buyer is "If you don't like it in a few months at least you have a good frame"

Something like that.

Now that is funny.

LOL......I have noticed how many people fall back on van Gogh's track record.

Dave

....your waiting for that magic keyword to rocket your career into the big time.
....waiting for that new camera from XX which is the only thing holding you back from stardom.
... you think putting your art in vending machines is great advice.
... your bio contains the phrase "my friends all think my stuff is great"


Twisted logic - Van Gogh never sold anything, therefor I am the next Van Gogh.

I think the real reason its so hard to be a professional is because creating the art is only one part of the equation. Selling yourself and your work is where people fail because its the hard part. You have an expensive product that no one really needs. It takes a great deal of marketing to convince others of its worth. Buyers have a lot of choices. You are competing against amazing living artists as well has hundreds of years of long dead artists that have established branding.

What JC said - and it doesn't matter what kind of art - but that is the requirement to be a professional.

There are professional artists and there are commercial artists. Commercial artists work full time but do the bidding of another, often an art director who has a boss too. They work for magazines newspapers, design product packaging, advertising, etc. The list goes on and on. Much but not all of what was once the realm of the illustrator has shifted to photography. The work can be in-house working for large corporations with budgets for art departments or independent freelancers. There are also small design groups.

We seem here to be focused on the quasi fine art or freelancer who wavers between fine art and commercial. Sometimes the line is blurred. Many skilled illustrators and photographers have after some time doing others bidding moved into a more fine art or freelance kind of world hoping to do more what they love. Most find a niche like sailboats, beach scenes, sports or any number of subjects that they feel readily sell. They know a market and they work that market rarely ever swerving from that for fear of losing sales and a following. Sometimes a very strong and popular style can give one a freedom to paint other than a niche subject matter for a time. The 15 minutes of fame thing I'm afraid. There are exceptions to everything.

Fine artists might do commissions, much like a freelancer, to make a more predictable and regular income. Portraiture both of people or pets has been done for a long time. Like commercial art however, you work to please someone else using your skills but often not much creative freedom. Just my opinion.

DR,

People who do not work to please others have to be mindful that other sorts of business fail when ONLY the owner's ego is fed.
It does not have to be an either/or.

Dave

Very well said David.

I personally produce exactly what I want to produce but with an eye towards marketability.

Example. I am going to travel three hours to shoot either A or B. I like both. If B has a better chance at selling I will shoot B first.

That said, I won't shoot something I don't enjoy or would enjoy less just because it is marketable. Example. The University of Alabama has a much larger fan base than Auburn. Thus, Bryant Denny Stadium has better sales potential than Jordan Hare. You can see just how many images I have of each and see which I like better.

Artist is anyone who creates art.
Professional artist is every artist that earns his living with his art.

Photographer stepping in for a moment.... why do people feel the need to define themselves? I don't get wrapped up in terms like professional or amateur, but maybe that's just me. One time I was out shooting photographs and stepped into a small convenience store to grab a Gataorade with a camera still around my neck. A cute, young girl looked at me with the camera and said, "So you're a picture taker?" So that's typically how I refer to myself with a chuckle. A picture taker!

The problem with creating purely for one's self is the difficulty of finding your doppelganger willing to buy it. It's kind of assumed that someone on a POD site is interested in selling their work.

You'd think so Ed, but there are several members here who participate heavily in the discussions who seem to wear their ambivalence towards selling as some kind of badge of honor.

I earn my entire living with my art. For the first three years of my marriage, I made more money on my art than my spouse made with his job. The economy crashed and then we limped along for awhile, but I still contributed significantly. Now I make more than him again. So blow a hole right in the "a professional marries someone who works so they can paint" theory....He asks me daily when he can quit his job and become a house husband...LOL

You know if writers only wrote novels for themselves we would have many more languages, but no one able to read in them.

Wake is a book written in larger part in a new language. A rule breaker.

The point is writers used to only get published if according to the publishing house there was a market, an audience, for the book.

Dave

I always find it funny, if English speakers use German words. normally it's the other way around. 😎

DK,

They are welcome to their folly. Nothing here is ever printed unless someone actually orders it.
So there is no real loss for the house.

Dave

JC I do much the same. Marketability is a consideration but only one among many. I believe my eye, the result of my talent and training honed and focused with years of practice , beyond that of the, "everyman" on the street. My eye will always dictate and be more important than the immediate sale. It's not so much an ego thing as a realization that I need to find my markets more than I need sales to validate me as an artist. It's never easy.

If your work is a tougher sell i.e. needs more explanation than you'd probably do better in an environment with includes hand holding - i.e. gallery world. A place where more educated buyers or the art consultants/designers go and a higher level of salesmanship is employed. POD-land is more - I like what I see/I buy it. Direct sale from artist to customer with no middlemen.

Ed,

A very good reason to add to the list of why I watered down my concept.

Dave

When I realized that the income I receive from my art sales was exceeding my husband's and I was earning the bulk of the money, I knew that I had turned the corner from "full time artist" to "professional artist" and I then described my self as such. It kind of dawned on me very slowly as I had worked so hard at my art in many different ways for so many years. We live very frugally so we can follow what we feel deep inside to do, so I'm not saying that I earn a lot, but it always seems to be sufficient! And I'm so grateful!

Just wanted to add to my previous post..As soon as I had reached such a wonderful turning point and longed for "goal" making my living from my art, I found myself deeply committed to spending the forseeable future caring for a relative who has dementia. It's like, as soon as one thing works out, another difficulty arises. I'm not really that surprised, nor am I complaining. Just realizing that the real and most meaningful goal seems to be to allow myself to be at peace with whatever turns up! In the end the longed for" thing" always seems a bit of an anti climax!

Sounds like life in general. Always a challenge work on.

...

Ok how about this idea - why is it so hard? Because you have to deal with compromise. You have have to deal with some level of collaboration with people beyond yourself. Whether its taking a commission or dealing with demands of an agent or gallery. Or creating more marketable art.

"What Is Professional Artist???"

Not any better than an amateur.

I think the line between what is an artist and what is a professional is being blurred.

If you look at the definition of "professional" it has nothing to do with being successful or the quality of the work they turn out.

Full Definition of PROFESSIONAL

1
a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession
b : engaged in one of the learned professions
c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

2
a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs
b : having a particular profession as a permanent career
c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return
3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession

There are a lot of really bad professional artists out there but they make a lot of money.

And there are a lot of very, very good armature artist out there that have never made a dime. The fact that they are very good, does not make them professionals.

"A cute, young girl looked at me with the camera and said, "So you're a picture taker?" So that's typically how I refer to myself with a chuckle. A picture taker!"

Joseph, I think she asked if you were a pickle taster.... but if she was cute... well, I am sure it really doesn't matter! lol

Just kidding!!

Some famous artists and writers were not appreciated during their lifetimes. So maybe they were not "professionals," but art or literature was in their souls. It was who they were, so, yes, I'd really like to make more money on my work. Maybe even more than that, I want it to outlast me. I don't have a grand kid yet. But that's a kind of immortality. But I can't stop even if those things don't happen. I can't stop creating art and I can't stop making stories in my head and writing them down. So professional? Maybe not. Artist? Writer? Yes.

"I want it to outlast me. "

It will. Remember, what goes on the net stays on the net.

Not only that, long after all of us are gone, we can have our FAA galleries keep on selling to the benefit of whom ever we chose.

I am carefully archiving all of my work, artistic and literary and will leave it to my son. I hope by the time I'm gone, it's making a little more money.

So....if you are retired and your work is supplementing your income, wonder where that falls along the "professional" range?

Works for me Susan.

But far be it for me to suggest that I am qualified to say who is and who is not a professional, beyond my opinion and understanding and/or interpretation of the definition above.

I simply look at the definition and apply it.

Seems to me that scenario fits perfectly well.