Faa On-site Image Quality

Here's an example. The on-site work looks way softer than the comparable jpg. Colors seem less vibrant on the site too.

I've noticed it too lately. Not quite as bad on my laptop, but really bad on my phone and tablet. I guess it's a compromise between clear bright images and fast loading.

Use sRGB instead of Adobe RGB. Anything for the web needs to use sRGB because that's all many (most) browsers will use to display it. sRGB is a smaller color space but we're trapped in it for the forseeable future.

I've used srgb in the past when I was still using Lightroom (now using capture one) and still noticed a big difference between the jpg as produced by Lightroom and the image as it appears on the site. The site version always looks off. Also, would Argb vs srgb explain the degradation in sharpness I am seeing?

The faa imagine just looks like a bad carbon copy, a visual MP3 which has had all the life compressed out of it.

I don't think it's a color space issue. I think it's a compression issue as FAA tries to become more "mobile friendly." I've always uploaded here in ARGB, but only lately have I been noticing the lack of sharpness, especially in the thumbnails.

If you use sjepg won't it look better on screen, but not print as well? I don't know.

sRBG displays more saturated colors

i think he's putting more compression on things or is using a different profile on that side when its compressed. wish that would end though. i uploaded a pano yesterday, and 3800px high is plenty large enough to work from, yet everything looks furry.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

The compression and sharpening used by FAA seem to have changed over time and may change again. Some photos get hammered pretty bad and it definitely reduces the chance of selling them. The heavier compression of the displayed images reduces FAA's bandwidth requirements and may be saving them money. I think the 100% preview still matches my original; but maybe I'm afraid to look too closely. All I can do is hope that my uploaded JPG is stored as-is and not compressed further.

The color space doesn't affect sharpness, but if you upload in Adobe RGB your colors will be degraded.

"The color space doesn't affect sharpness, but if you upload in Adobe RGB your colors will be degraded."

On some displays, not all. It's a dilemma because sRGB degrades print quality.

It's not a matter of the display; it's up to the browser. IE, for example, renders every image as sRGB. Your monitor can't compensate for that. Apple does things differently; but I'm pretty sure the preview images generated by FAA all have sRGB as the embedded color space; so you can't win.

Yes, things would be much better if we could use the Adobe color space. I hate producing what I think is a good image of a red or orange flower, seeing those beautiful colors in Lightroom on my high-gamut display, then seeing them crushed when I export to sRGB.

Yes, I know it's up to the browser. I used the word "display" as a catch all for whatever people are viewing on.

We CAN use ARGB as FAA accepts it. All my uploads are ARGB. I figure I have little control over whatever browser/monitor/device people use anyway, so I upload what I know will print best.

If you upload in aRGB, you have to accept some loss and shifting of color in the displayed image. But do we know for a fact that FAA actually prints an aRGB image using the aRGB color space? I seem to recall a statement that everything was printed in sRGB.

Yes, I accept that the display will not be ideal. But, there is no way to guarantee ideal display anyway.

I believe the prints are produced in the uploaded color space. Don't know about the products.

I have my work on a company website that licenses my work and the colors look de-saturated. Everyone's work is in RBG but it doesn't
affect all images the same way! It's very frustrating! It's not about the browser.

the printing is in aRGB

I think the real problem is not the color space which almost certainly FAA runs sRGB. But sharpening is added in the moment in which it is already been made by us.He admitted that the FAA added. Sharpening sharpening above not by a good result. Sorattutto if you were given fine by us. In the case that we do not give the best sharpening then it may be acceptable.

In addition I suppose that the FAA does not propose an interpolation of the image for larger format but rather lowers dpi. In this case I'm not sure that there is a need for new sharpening. But I'm not sure! Does anyone know?

How do you really know how FAA prepares our files? Only in this way can we work better by offering the best result.

Well, the imprense in ARGB is better :)

Loree, I'm pretty sure you're right - the print vendors use the embedded color space. And the loss of color on-screen, as seen on various systems and browsers, may not be that bad depending on the image. But of course we know nothing about the color space of the actual printers, since we can't get printer color profiles.

You do not need to know the icc... The printers print to your colour details but the image is aRGB for printing

Another big POD, which unfortunately must remain nameless, says this on their site:

"We convert all images to sRGB to make sure your photos look great both online and in print."

Jim, I think you were right. I also made sure my images were sRGB, based on previous information that it is what FAA uses. Not sure where I got that info, it was so long ago. Anyway, sounds like that was changed. Dean, I've noticed the same thing lately, and I've gone into at least one image and amped the color and contrast to try to get rid of the haze. I know not to touch sharpening. But I'm going to stop doing that until it gets sorted out.

This is good information, thanks for the thread! I'd like more technical information on the sharpening process, if possible. I understand we're not to add any output sharpening, but how is the printer applying it? Is it an over-all layer that is the same for every image printed? What if there are areas that we don't want sharpened, like a soft background?

I have noticed it. I also no that everything on my Apple devices look horrible. I generally work in aRGB and often I convert to sRGB before uploading to FAA. Sometimes I forget. I uploaded to my stock site RGB for 8 years and the images always look fine. I don't know if the agency converts to sRGB for display but they asked me for RGB when I started so that is my habit.
I am not seeing changing color space giving any improvement. I don't know why. Maybe Loree and Jim are on to something. Maybe it has to do with being mobile friendly. To me its just one more problem I have to live with. Eventually i think it will get sorted out, not just by FAA, but by the bowsers and the display manufacturers. BTW my current monitor never really falls out of calibration. It would be great if we all had the same colors on our monitors. There has been a great improvement in desktops. Laptops and handheld devices, not so much.

What does it actually mean "aRGB" printing? If the image has been uploaded in sRGB the colors will not change to a wider gamut like aRGB - it is just a converting to suite the inkjet printing process, if that is what the printer has made his standard. I believe there are older threads where the printing facility is named as well as the inkjet printers they use.

I recall that a representative of the printing facility spoke up in a thread on the matter, however he spokes like a salesman, not like a technician, similar to "dont you worry, we make a nice print out of your images..."

I have also noticed a degradation of Images. I recently reuploaded a couple and there was an improvement. I'm going back to those images in a month to compare. I suspect it is a compression factor.
What i do know is I can't do anything about it because its on Pixels end of things. They have to fix it. I can't.

Dean, is your problem along the lines of Tom Zimmerman's? Or is it crispness alone?

http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2622831?

@Patricia. I think the FAA printers were always aRGB. As to the online view I don't know but it makes sense they would make it sRGB.

@Debra You can be pretty sure no one is doing selective sharpening on your work. That level of editing is time consuming an expensive. My guess is that if the image is reasonable sharp they are not going to touch it. If you are worried buy a print. But if you are preparing you images so they look good on your monitor at 100%, I think you will be fine.

I sharpen for both the print and the preview. For me that means selectively and with a light touch. (I almost always do it as the last step as per my software guru).

@ Lutz, I contact the printer directly with my questions. At other times I have gone through tech support here and the question was answered directly by the printer. When you contact the printer you get a customer service rep, so you can only hope they truly know what they are talking about. So far they have been. It would be nice if a knowledgeable member could get a full tour of the facility in S.C. and get some insight into what happens.

My camera is set to sRGB. I did that based on what FAA asked for a while back. Not sure what to do about this now (regarding previously-uploaded images).

@Bradford - here is the policy:

Fine Art America can transform any image into a professionally designed work of art. Simply upload your image, preview your artwork in a variety of formats, and select the ones that you like best!

Keep the camera set to Adobe RGB - faithful.

I'm going to let Bradford speak for me as he is doing a better job.

We've always printed aRGB

@Roberto

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

Good reading!

Thank you, Bradford! I wasn't sure if it meant they always apply sharpening before printing or not. :)

Thanks Lutz,
as I said in my first post the problem is not so much the color profile.
I see that to have fewer problems whatsoever is best to use srgb, in addition it seems that there is a wider range of Adobe RGB, or rather, is not detectable.

I personally use the Adobe RGB profile because required by my printer trusted.

Roberto, Sharpening is added to the image on your website image, some in the forum have suggested FAA give the artist a choice for the sharpening. I understand all images as a matter of practice are always sharpened before printing because it has been enlarged.

"@Bradford - here is the policy:
Fine Art America can transform any image into a professionally designed work of art. Simply upload your image, preview your artwork in a variety of formats, and select the ones that you like best!"

Lutz, garbage in - garbage out is the principle
.
As to your question about aRGB vs sRGB. If you uploaded in a narrower gamut sRGB and print in a wider gamut no harm done. But if they had it so you upload aRGB and they print sRGB you are losing color gamut. That's why it makes sense for all printing to be aRGB. And why I used to always upload aRGB.

Now if it were my site and I was making up the smaller images used for online display i would make them all the same. And that would be sRGB. Since I start all my work in aRGB, there would be no point in converting to sRGB before uploading, if the site already does that. And why wouldn't they?

The only reason I am converting to sRGB is for the files I make for online marketing. I have never made it a default setting. Why I upload sRGB here sometimes I don't really know. I just want to eliminate that as a possible reason for the images not showing up right. I don't think it helps.

Here is how I understand it. It's a complicated subject and some of us use the same terms in different ways.

You can't "print in aRGB". You print in the color space of the printer. You could "convert" an image from sRGB to aRGB before printing; there would be some losses, but usually not significant. Your image won't be improved. But then the image is then rendered for printing in the gamut of the printer, which may or may not encompass the entire sRGB (or aRGB) color space. Nothing would gained, and something may be lost, by converting the image to aRGB before printing. Some printers cover the entire sRGB or aRGB gamuts and some don't.

aRGB is larger than sRGB in a couple of areas - especially in the greens, but also in orange/yellow highlights - but the tradeoff is that you lose some color resolution because the same number of bits is used to encode values in a wider gamut. So unless your image really needs colors which aren't in the sRGB color space, sRGB actually has an advantage. But many images do look noticeably better in aRGB.

Suzanne Thanks.
So do you think it would be better to load images without sharpening?
FAA sharpens default? It does on all formats or just the big ones? There are many steps involved.

Or is it like Bradford says that the damage only where it is needed?
It 'important to know this because the sharpness of a picture is really an important issue .... sharpening is able to achieve the effect artifact and make the image blurry perceptually.

I am sure that the FAA does professional work but have all the information we can obtain a better result.

We stand on the key 100% that do not think too realistic. Perhaps you should buy the press believed the worst of all. If that goes well we'll get it :)

@Bradford:

"As to your question about aRGB vs sRGB...."

Sorry I gave the wrong impression, Bradford, I actually was not asking a question at all - but when I read my comment now again, I admit you easely can get that impression.

My comment: "What does it actually mean "aRGB" printing?" was adressed to the repeated phrase in this thread "We've always printed aRGB".

Nowhere on this site you can find any information about what this FAA phrase means - and personally I do not believe that there is a such a thing like "aRGB printing".

However, as for myself I do not own a monitor that displays 100% aRGB. Has anyone here?

So, since I do not have any device showing aRGB gamut I stick to sRGB - from shooting to preparing the final image on a sRGB calibrated screen.

Do I miss something avoiding aRGB? I will never know by own experience.

Do pro-photographers miss anything? I hand over to Ken Rockwell http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

My Dell XPS-27 all-in-one claims to display the full Adobe RGB gamut. If, in Lightroom, I switch from sRGB to aRGB in 'preview' I see those yellow/magenta highlights really jump.

I will try and upload the same image to some other sites later to see if there is a noticeable difference. Kind of glad to hear others are suffering from the same issue (because it means the problem is not at my end) but also disheartening. Know how you walk into a fast food joint, look at a photo of a tasty, perfectly dressed burger with crisp, fresh veggies on the menu board, order it and then get served a soggy, messy pile of grease that looks nothing like the display? Well, seems like the reverse is happening at FAA. Customers see a soggy, unappetizing preview and then get served a picture perfect and wonderful product that exceeds expectations. Kind of weird...