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Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

What Do They Look Like?

When an artist makes it big who is not well liked by some people on the forum it is often attributed to marketing and knowing the right people. Who are the right people and more importantly what do they look like? I don't want to be shopping at the dollar store and have one of the "right" people in line ahead of me and miss my chance to introduce myself!

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Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

They're the ones who light their cigarettes with 100 dollar bills. ;)

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Cynthia, I will be watching for that!

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Ronald,

No one is liked by 100% of the people. Except people that avoid conflict entirely. And they end up losing out greatly.

I think we need to avoid politics in this thread. LOL Because if ever there was a place where humanity excels in
popularity contests...and generally everyone else is a loser.....well I will be behind you most days at the dollar store.

Dave

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

David, what does this have to do with politics? Also I never said anyone is liked by 100 percent of the people. I said that when people who are not liked by some and are successful it is often attributed to luck or knowing the right people. Who are these people and what do they look like?

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

The larger scale of things.

To be honest I am not sure what you were trying to say. I think you are talking about people being snubbed.
And how people here might rally around what is seen as success.

Right?

Dave

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Who are these people and what do they look like?

Are you saying luck has less to do with success?

We are going from specifics to generalities with no success. That is why I am finding this hard to understand.


Is the backdrop to this thread the recent ongoing Warhol thread? So there is a specific you have in mind?

I think Warhol was very talented on many fronts. He was seen as talented among thousands of artists and rose to the top.
He also pushed himself to the top, can you blame him? He was also propelled to the top by smart business folks around him.

He was far less lucky than very very good. But that said if we go to another specific case I might not say the same things. How could I?
That is my problem with generalities that are vague.

Dave

 

Bradford Martin

8 Years Ago

They usually own Polo ponies. Sometimes spotted The Hamptons in NY in the summer.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Many times on these forum discussions the topic of why various artist have been successful has come up. A couple examples could be Pollack or Warhol. What they accomplished and how their work fit in historically and their impact on the art that followed is often just glossed over. Instead what is said repeatedly is they were masters at marketing and or knew the right people. Who are these right people and if I walked into them turning a corner how would I know that they are the right people? There is the possibility, slim as it may be, that they were great artist who attracted the right people by virtue of what they were doing.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Ronald,

I would have to tell you what is in my back pocket.

There is a law firm here in CT that specializes in IP, Intellectual Property. They are in the Whose Who. That generally means the professionals
around them outside of their practice hold them in the highest regard. I have spoken twice to a lady who is a media person and point person for
their firm. She is very nice. She is also a contact of mine on Linkedin.

My plan for now is to approach her again by email so the response is well written down and ask her for a list of agents in the Hartford, New Haven
and/or NYC area. A referral from her would be worth a lot to me. Of course I would spell out that I need an agent that is far more connected to museums
than galleries and has publishing connections that matter.

I would then take this possible short list and research it online.

I then would approach an agent or two and hope they wanted to work with me.

That is how.

Dave

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

David, if I am catching what you are saying, hire an agent?

 

Do you have any examples of people in this forum who have made it big Ron?

Oh you mean like Thomas Kinkade, Bev Doolittle, Peter Lik, and Terry Redlin? How about Greg Olsen, one of our FAA Alumni... who never ventures into a discussion board.

Perhaps that may be one of the reasons that they made it big. They don't get into quarreling with others attempting to do the same thing. They are bigger than that.

Right place, right time? A subject matter that is appealing and rendered in an appealing way? Likable to their target audience? Blessed by God?

 

Brittaney Gresham

8 Years Ago

Oh I wish someone would light a cig with 100 bucks. I would yell fire and put it out. Save the poor 100 dollar bill and give it a real good home.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Glenn, good examples but I would say that historically getting together with other artist and debating art ideas and issues has been more of a good thing rather than a detriment. The big difference is it can be done via Internet rather than in bars or coffee shops at night. FYI, keeps many of us smaller sized artist from getting beaten as well!

 

Sarah Kersey

8 Years Ago

Remember that cereal commercial in the 70's... "Mikey likes it"!! Or, "I'll have what he/she is having." Enter competitions... there are lots of them for art, photography, digital art, abstracts, etc. Getting an "award" for a work of art gets attention, thereby telling others that it has been "accepted" or "liked" by a jury. Placing high (grand prize, 1st price, etc.) can sometimes propel your career, boost your prices, and prompt contact from galleries.

Beyond social media, there is a world of magazines (in print and/or online e-versions) specific to just about everything, from medicine, industrial, machinery, oil & gas, etc., etc. Don't be shy. Nothing lost by just sending e-mails to make them aware of what you have to offer.

David, just call (or have a friend call) a few museums and ask what agents they work with. Get as much info as you can about what it takes to get in or if they have special showings for local artists. Some museums have First Thursdays, etc. and often they are themed. But the museum patrons love them because they are "new" "upcoming" "unknown" "aspiring" etc. artists. The IP atty may be reluctant to provide a list of agents, but she might give you some direction otherwise. Good luck.

Have a polished, professional website. Keywords/alt tags. And, most of all, make sure your work is outstanding.

Ronald, the "right person" might be "6 degrees of separation"... or, it could be someone dressing down in public to disguise any suggestion of wealth (I know a lot of people that do that)...you just never know.

 

Ron,

I would agree that in times past the getting together thing was a big deal. But in today's scheme of things what couldn't be accomplished outside of that world can be accomplished by some very shrewd business moves. Call it a separation of the classes. Seems to be as apropos a label as any in today's climate. Maybe a must for those who are considered Politically Incorrect.

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

The "right" people certainly own polo ponies, as someone said. In addition, they own multiple homes in multiple states and/or countries - they MUST own at least one other home in Aspen, Colorado, ... and preferably a third home in Madrid, Spain.

The "right" people also know very little about art. They merely listen to their financial or fashion advisors, regarding what's hot, what's a good investment, and what's the best fit for their OTHER homes in Aspen and Madrid.

The "right" people are usually old, more likely thin than flabby, well groomed, well dressed, and freeze their leftover perishable plate scrapings from parties to throw into the garbage, so that these do not start to decay in their kitchen garbage cans and smell up their homes in Aspen and Madrid.

The "right" people present themselves publically as ideals of society, but (behind the scenes) they act like rednecks at their private parties in their private homes in Aspen and Madrid.

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

Do other countries besides the USA have rednecks? I just happened to think that this might be an alien concept to people in England and other countries.

What do you call a redneck in England? In France? In Italy? ARE there English, French, or Italian rednecks? (^_^)

I was born into a somewhat redneck environment, but it did not rub off on me, as you (hopefully) can see.

Now I am going to be attacked for making fun of rednecks. But, hey, I am an artist, ... more than enough fodder for rednecks to make fun of ME. It all balances out, you see.

 

Alfred Ng

8 Years Ago

I did met one of the "right people": I was invited to her home to see her" art collection" when she was giving me the tour, she pointed out the reason the brought their house because her husband can walk to their private dock from their garden. .

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

I have rubbed elbows with all the "right" people. I just rarely ever mentioned that I was an artist.

I just could not do the "who you know" game. ... still too much competition from other artists who also knew the same "right" people that I knew.

I am NOT a schmoozer by nature. I was not born with that gene.

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Just like in every thread that touches this subject the idea that success goes hand in hand with visual accomplishment , influences on other artist and how they fit in the history of art is being glossed over.

 

It would seem that those whom I mentioned have attained success do speak of their influences...

Thomas Kinkade: Thomas Moran, Norman Rockwell, Glenn Wessells. Very competitive and driven artist. As a young man when he was asked for one piece of art... he nearly always provided 2.

Bev Doolittle: Nature and Native Americans and a love for wildlife. Doesn't hurt that she and her husband were art directors at an advertising agency! She creates what she is passionate about! Her passion adds to her drive.

Peter Lik: Self taught. Mostly by trial and error. He is so good at what he does that The Weather Channel created specials for him named From The Edge With Peter Lik. This guy has drive.

Terry Redlin: Spent 25 years working in commercial art as a layout artist, graphic designer, illustrator and art director. Influenced by his love of nature, wildlife, and the great outdoors. Very interested in conservation and devoted much of his time and money in those causes. Has his own Art Museum in Watertown, South Dakota. Driven to succeed by the physical impairments that struck him at an early age after a motorcycle accident. Art was what he knew he could do.

I can't really see how they were driven by having an influence on other artists as much as they may have been driven by their influences on different causes or in order to be able to put another plate of peanut butter sandwiches on the table. All seemed to have gone through the starving artist phase...

I think that without being a schmoozer one way or another that most can kiss a big artistic career good-bye while they yet live.

 

Andy PYRAH

8 Years Ago

What Do They Look Like?


They are Martians.

They are out of ths world
They speak a funny language
They like anything that's red, like I've red about that.
They seem to have an IT problem, as in "I am It"

 

Suzanne Powers

8 Years Ago

I haven't read a lot about the famous artists and how they gathered accolades, who bought their art and how they gained world attention. Historically it probably happened slower than with today's media. It is a question I have been thinking about since I am now pursuing my art, an intriguing one! I do know Andy Warhol had the support of the Sacchi Gallery and was a star artist when he was with them.

If I am correct, I can be very thankful he became famous he was a major force to increase the value of silk screen prints and probably any type of printed art on paper. It would seem if an artist's work eventually gets into high dollar galleries and is seen by the art buying public and becomes popular over time that artist has the potential to become famous.

I'm not sure recognizing the buyer in the dollar store would necessarily get you anywhere unless they are very sure about their taste and know art. A lot of buyers would seem to buy because an artist's work has become valuable over time. I don't think anyone would pay a lot of money for art that has no track record, maybe you are just talking about meeting them and getting you into a gallery or better gallery and a legup on your art career.

I don't think schmoozing is quite what it is, like any career you start out in lower priced galleriies and hope to go up to ever more important galleries. If I were paying tens of thousands of dollars I would want the artist to have a track record of past sales of art because it should be an investment (a dirty word among artists!) otherwise I will pay you a thousand depending on the time spent and talent and call it a day. Having your art in galleries has historically been the only way to track someones success.

 

Dan Turner

8 Years Ago

"I think that without being a schmoozer one way or another that most can kiss a big artistic career good-bye while they yet live."

Absolutely, Glenn. There are many paths to success, none will be exactly the same, but all will include interaction with other people.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

James McCormack

8 Years Ago

I am the right person. For ever two $100 dollar bills you send me I will use one to light a cigar - send you a photo of this and keep the other $100 bill safe. When I have a collection of photos I will proceed to market them on FAA . I was the one behind you in the dollar store queue which is why you did not see me.

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

"I think that without being a schmoozer one way or another that most can kiss a big artistic career good-bye while they yet live."

Absolutely, Glenn. There are many paths to success, none will be exactly the same, but all will include interaction with other people.


I totally agree,... I was merely pointing out, with my comment on schmoozing, that I could not do it with respect to visual art -- a fatal flaw, I admit. I think that I have never taken myself seriously enough as a visual artist to do it.

I HAVE, however, taken myself quite seriously in other pursuits.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

I'd be as happy as a whore in a cathouse. Sales are good.

Dave....definitely signed......

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

"Just like in every thread that touches this subject the idea that success goes hand in hand with visual accomplishment , influences on other artist and how they fit in the history of art is being glossed over."-Ronald

sounds like to me Ronald, you are asking how to become an artist's artist.
a trend setter, avonguard or founders of artistic movements are manufactured as much by academia as artist.

convince some PhD candidate at a hoity toity art academy to write their dissertation on your life's work, then you may get some notoriety.
maybe you may want to seek them out, give them a few of your pieces so that they have a vested interest in elevating your work to a lofty height. Create a win win situation.
isn't that the new paradigm in art?
maybe then you'll get one of the 1%ers to buy your art.
thatz the ticket!

 

Jason Christopher

8 Years Ago

aliens from outer space? aliens look like aliens!! your art gives us an insight of what to look out for lol. oh sorry Ronald, wrong question. Wrong answer. excuse me. cheers.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

They are the people dressed in tuxedos and long gowns gathering at a yearly social club affair. Talking about their hedge fund managers while posing for pictures to adorn the social pages of the local paper. They are the society's elite, bidding thousands on a painting that sells on FAA for a few hundred. Not to be outdone by a rival socialite. While becoming light headed sipping Dom from a crystal glass. Will you be the chosen one to wait their table?

 

Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

Not sure who mentioned the Who's Who but it should be clarified that 98% of books carrying that name (the name is in the public domain now) are vanity publications where you can just buy a spot in the book.

On topic, and in a real-world way... I have a word for people who connect you to other people and places of importance. I call them facilitators. In my experience, there are facilitators everywhere. You have get out there—online and in real life—and make connections with people who you can exchange value with. Collaborate with other artists. Join arts groups online and really participate. Help out with an arts organization or club or group. Volunteer. Attend events. Get in and get your hands dirty. If you keep your eyes open, someone will cross your path that has access to something you need (like maybe they're the spouse of a gallery owner in your town, or perhaps you connect with someone through a group on Linked in who works doing public art displays.

It is possible to find the facilitators at a local level. You can't go straight to the huge big city art collectors and museums when you have no experience and no in-road and then expect to be taken seriously. These people, these facilitators, they rely on their connections. They don't deal with random people all that much. They have layers of organizers and managers between themselves and you. Those organizers and managers have organizers and managers. Find them. Be where they can find you. Get involved. Contribute. Offer value to these people, be it in expertise, or product, or helpfulness, or whatever.

Example: Attend an art opening. Do NOT promote yourself. Pay attention. Ask people how they're connected to the artist who is showing. Talk about the art. Not your art, unless someone asks, and then be very brief. Shilling your work at someone else's party is in exceptionally bad taste and you'll scare off any possible connections of real value. If you can collect business cards, do that. If you need to, write a note on the card after the event to remind you of something specific/personal about that person. The Aunt of the artist who is looking for a painting for her living room. The young lady who works at the print shop that the artist works with. When and if you have a reason to contact these people, do. Do not spam them. Send the Aunt an invitation to your own art show, or a personal note suggesting she check out your website. Contact the print shop employee about what they can do for you in terms of prints or supplies.

It's business, but our business is a very personal one. Expand your circle, leverage your connections, offer them something of value in return, and they might remember and recommend you to other, potentially more influential facilitators.

I gave a few free notecards to a client who bought artwork from me. Buying clients are facilitators. She gave those notecards to a friend. That friend happens to own one of the galleries and a furniture store in town. Friend liked my card. Friend calls me. We chat on the phone, we meet at her store. I now get to hang 5 pieces in her amazing furniture store on commission, and I got an invitation to tour the building (she owns) which is one of the most historic in a very historic town. I am sure she knows more people who love art. I will go WAY out of my way to make sure she is impressed with our transaction. She is a pretty major facilitator. A good experience with her could mean good things for me in the future.

Connections, connections. Know how to recognize them, and don't let them slip through your fingers - whether they're waiters or movie stars.

 

Kevin Callahan

8 Years Ago

As with every success story they (mostly) have a different path. Take Pollock, for starters he was in NYC during a time of great artistic growth. He was a member of the Artist's League and studied under Thomas Hart Benton, this enabled him to be noticed by Peggy Guggenheim, which was the major boost to his career. That is one way, meet and impress an heiress.

Norman Rockwell took a similar path to NC Wyeth, in that he was a well established commercial illustrator before he was able to become a "famous" painter. And, as with NC, that knock of "illustrator" stayed with him his entire career.

Thomas Kinkade was a trained commercial artist who was receiving virtually no acceptance from the "art establishment." He chose a very different path in that he took his art to the people. He identified a religious segment of people who would buy a spiritual work and used that as his springboard.

My son Brad has achieved some success as a fashion designer in NYC. He designs for some very big names. Ask him if he has met said stars, no but I know their stylists, is the answer. he often attends art openings and meets others in the business. He has gotten his name on lists of young designers to watch. Thus the stylists looking to dress their "star" in cutting edge fashion seek him out.

I think the business of being an "art star" is not that different. The right school, the best grad school, the right people. Of course this doesn't do much for us mere mortals waiting to be discovered by some very important wealthy personage.

 

Roger Swezey

8 Years Ago

In the early 60's when I was establishing myself in architecture, a number of my artist friends were having their works bought up by Walter Chrysler, Jr., the son of the automobile magnet.

Buying work of unknown artists, I believe was the gamble he took.....hoping that some might become famous, and the work he bought will become valuable.

My friends were ecstatic to have their work bought by this very well known collector...Even though the money they received was very nominal


By the way, I'm patiently waiting to receive the painting, I commissioned an amazing painter to create.(Leah Saulnier)

I know it's bound to increase in value...But I don't care...For it's already invaluable to me.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Who's Who not Whose Who.....me auditory getting the best of my spelling. Thanks.

When seeking a lawyer or doctor in your region, a specialist in their field, using the Who's Who makes a lot of sense.

Dave

 

Ronald Walker

8 Years Ago

Cynthia, you are correct on some Who's who publications. I know I have been in Who's Who in American Art for more than a decade. I have never paid a penny and do not know who nominated me. The number of artist has remained fairly consistent over the years between 11,000 and 12,000. I have actually nominated a few artist myself since I was accepted but none has gotten in. I think it is a mater of being shown over a wide geographic region that is the trick, don't know.

 

Kevin Callahan

8 Years Ago

There is a reality to all of this: those of us who have success on different levels deserve our accolades. But even pretty successful artists along with those who sell for a few hundred dollars to even a couple thousand, are unlikely to be catapulted into the stratosphere.

 

Dan Turner

8 Years Ago

Cynthia, once again you have given exceptional advice, clearly and beautifully written. Your post is a keeper that should be on permanent display.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Cynthia Decker

8 Years Ago

Thanks Dan! Sometimes I worry about sharing such long winded advice, but I hope it helps people to grow a stronger and bigger art business.

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

I also was listed in Who's Who for three years in a row, ... so many years ago that I had forgotten it. It quickly became apparent that the listing meant nothing significant. It did not cost anything either. Just a few published papers in a few professional journals, and they are on you like flies to submit a bio for consideration.

 

Roy Erickson

8 Years Ago

Everything that Cynthia D said above, or below - That IS how this game is played. Your only other choice - is to be rich and buy your famous.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

The Who's Who in law and medicine is a different animal.

In a given region the particular specialists are given a form to fill out.

Questions like, "If you needed to send your spouse to an oncologist in your region
who would you recommend?"

Only other oncologists in the area would be answering. Only a couple of names as voted on in the questioning would
show up on the list.

What you will find in most cases is that someone in the Who's Who for law and medicine are the best of the best
in their specialty practicing in their region. This takes the guess work out of who will give you better more honest
advise or attention for your problem. For the layman it can be a matter of life or death. For the business person seeking a lawyer this
can mean the difference between honest representation and getting totally shafted.

Dave

 

Robert Kernodle

8 Years Ago

The thing with the Who's Who publications is that their editors count on vanity being the prime driver that induces all the listed people to BUY copies of the publications. Look at how many people are listed in those books, ... figure even a paltry percentage of them buying a copy or two, and you can see a financial motive behind it - a motive that I sensed overtook the service provided.

The editors should re-title the publication, Who Cares ? ... or ... Who Gives A ______ ?

 

David King

8 Years Ago

If your name gets published in a book does that automatically make you somebody?

 

Suzanne Powers

8 Years Ago

Congratulations Cynthia! I agree amazing post, lots of new ground covered, thank you!

 

Chuck Staley

8 Years Ago

When I was growing up, the happiest place for me was in the darkroom. Quiet. All alone.

Maybe because my darkroom was in a funeral home made it even quieter. Shhh. Turn down that radio.

I'm still a loner, but this fall my granddaughter is starting high school and there will be all new people to meet.

I know this from working in the entertainment business: It's all about who you know. Period.

So I keep telling myself: Each new person I meet is a prospective customer. So I must bite the bullet this fall and learn to smile, and shake hands, and remember names.

It needs to be done, so I will do it.

 

This discussion is closed.