20% off all products! Sale ends tonight at midnight EST.
Discussion
8 Years Ago
If every artist would follow these words, there would be more time to create and less fear of rejection.
Your take.
Reply Order
8 Years Ago
that was a guy who had no problems selling his dreadful art. he some how made himself famous. and the words apply to him. if you normally make bad art, those that don't like it, won't tell you. those that like it buy it.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
He sold a lot of celebrity portraits, worked as a commercial artist, published a magazine and cultivated his celebrity. The guy was a brilliant marketer who understand the business of art.
8 Years Ago
" The guy was a brilliant marketer who understand the business of art."
But yet we are told by some here that that don't count for anything.
ROFLMAO!
8 Years Ago
Wasn't Warhol one of the first artists to openly consider and treat his art like the business that it was?
I know art as business goes way back - I'm sure the guy who did the El Castillo paintings had someone say "hey, that looks good. How many shiny rocks would it cost for you to come paint that on my cave wall?" But I can't think of anyone who blurred the line between fine art and commercial the way Warhol did before him.
8 Years Ago
We all must take in account that, what some considered as "Dreadful" art, Warhol's art was a direct reaction to the then esteemed "Action" art, that others considered "Dreadful"
By the way, I was brought up to believe that the works of Tchaikovsky and Puccini were "Dreadful"
Around, Around we go
8 Years Ago
Do you wait for a market to come to you or do you aggressively go after a market?
Warhol went after the market through aggressive marketing. Only after then did the market come to him.
8 Years Ago
Mike-
If Dahl could market the idea of selling rocks to people as pets, complete with instructions,...Warhol could market the art of a body bag, complete with corpse.
Brilliant marketeers!
8 Years Ago
"Dreadful" or not it is iconic. When most computers have a program that makes a snapshot look like a Warhol creation it is difficult to have any real perspective on the work. Aside from that it is a great quote!
8 Years Ago
all this shows is that he was good at marketing - i don't care for his work. but it doesn't seem to matter, he used copyrights and trademarks and made it work. today, people trying that would have a harder time. good for him, he made the money from the art. still, i don't count fame or how good he markets something as being good. so i really can't count as him saying any kind of wisdom.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
"If Dahl could market the idea of selling rocks to people as pets, complete with instructions,....Brilliant marketeers! "
Brilliant marketing to a very gullible consumer base. I recall that fad of owning a pet rock, and wasn't there registration papers or something included with it?
8 Years Ago
My personal jury on Warhol is completely off duty.
Do I like his art? Mixed feelings.
Was he a great businessman? Hell yes.
Does it matter? Does anyone's art matter? Talk about a can of worms.
Does Warhol's art specifically to art history matter? I think his art over time will become more and more of a footnote.
I have never thought this before, but I inherit some of Warhol's creativity in my art. How? Because he uses icons
and mix many images often in collage formats. Two very different aesthetics and two very different tools, he never used
computers, that I know of, but I am building on his ideas in part.
Is his work dreadful? In a word NO. Do I enjoy his art, not much.
Dave
8 Years Ago
The rocks we had, in our driveway, were only watered when it rained or the car was washed.
8 Years Ago
Mike-
"today, people trying that would have a harder time"
Warhol's marketing of his work has been done, which doesn't mean that an artist can't find a marketing "gimmick" to rise to the top. If one is not a "marketeer" perhaps a search for a pro is needed....
http://www.blurgroup.com/marketing/?gclid=CjwKEAjw_MisBRCTuNPfoMqU4ngSJACrJv1VtavYkYql-eJkyiXb16nrKStKlSDDkgQ44PRHhog3BhoC8pXw_wcB
8 Years Ago
Roger, i think most would be praising the sentiment... i have heard the critics here say something very similar in their own words...
i say, "anything worth doing is worth doing half ass"...
8 Years Ago
David hit on a point with Warhol's work. He used Icons, the repetition of his work, his style then became iconic in itself. His interest in boredom as well as celebrity is worth reading about. Don't want to misquote Mike here but it sounds like if he dosn't like someone's work, they are not worth hearing what they have to say. Personally I think the artist you don't care for are often the most interesting because you can gain a different perspective on things.
8 Years Ago
Say what people expect to hear from an artist but don't be stupid enough to follow your own advice.
8 Years Ago
Warhol's successful career started while working for Glamour Magazine...winning design awards and meeting the "right" people at the "right" NYC parties...
when the "right" people promote you..."marketing" yourself becomes a little easier. ;)
8 Years Ago
and that's usually how small people get big, they meet just the right people at just the right time and then they get famous from association. its really how personable you are and how much into parties and schmoozing you are into. i don't schmooze that well myself.
---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com
8 Years Ago
I only THINK about making a piece of art after I have mostly done it.
The thinking is an after thought.
If you want to make a living at it, however, and you know this from the get go, then you might want to ignore Warhol's wisdom. He probably wrote those words, after he was commercially successful. Or he did not think about each piece until AFTER he created it, which works, of course, because this is like a toggle switch that you turn on and off ... Think switch OFF while creating, ... think switch ON after creating.
It is more about WHEN to do either, rather than NOT doing one in favor of the other.
8 Years Ago
Warhol might literally have been a small person, but figuratively in more ways than one he was very large....He, Raucshenberg, Lichtenstien, and Oldenburg among others represented a very predictable movement. An obvious reaction to the non-figurative art of the Abstract Expressionist....It was all about icons and not much else.
8 Years Ago
Warhol was a product of a massive Madison Avenue marketing campaign. It's possible to sell anything in America from pet rocks to fake dog poop. With a multi-million dollar advertising budget, just think how far YOU could go. And remember, none of Warhol's "art" was original; it was all reprocessed public domain images... just like you see a lot of on FAA.
8 Years Ago
"none of Warhol's "art" was original"
But his ideas were, and ideas are the difference between becoming an international art icon and selling shower curtains on a POD service.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
If I do say so myself I was there in the early days of Warhol's artistic life.
Before the glitzy Uptown life, he and his films were being shown at the Charles Theater on Avenue B.
A movie house one of my Cooper Union buddies decided to buy to show "Underground" films. (he was the only one that had money)
A decision made one day as we all sat at Our Bar "Stanleys" that was diagonally across the street from the theater
In the early sixties Alphabet City became Our World.
Moving from all those old Abstract Expressionists hanging out at the Cedar Tavern in the West Village to this New Hip World we created, the East Village.
8 Years Ago
If I do say so myself I was there in the early days of Warhol's artistic life.
Before the glitzy Uptown life, he and his films were being shown at the Charles Theater on Avenue B.
A movie house one of my Cooper Union buddies decided to buy to show "Underground" films. (he was the only one that had money)
A decision made one day as we all sat at Our Bar "Stanleys" that was diagonally across the street from the theater
In the early sixties Alphabet City became Our World.
Moving from all those old Abstract Expressionists hanging out at the Cedar Tavern in the West Village to this New Hip World we created, the East Village.
8 Years Ago
No Dan, the difference is a million dollar marketing budget and a carefully crafted sales campaign. Warhol's "ideas" were not that original; he was branded and sold like a pack of gum. Just because his brand made a ton of money does mean he was an art god. Most of the really great art in America is never seen.
8 Years Ago
Good marketing can launch an idea, but even good marketing will not keep a bad idea afloat. In fact, good marketing will kill a bad idea faster than no marketing.
That's why major motion pictures spend millions marketing a movie's opening weekend. It is critical to get as much money in the coffers as possible, BEFORE word of mouth kills a bad picture. If word of mouth is bad, marketing at that point won't help.
Same with Andy. Marketing builds awareness. The old saying "You can lead a horse to water (marketing) but you can't make him drink" is accurate here. If the public wasn't interested, marketing would have killed Andy's career very quickly.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
Roger, what an interesting life you've lead! Went to NYC MOMA to see the Warhol exhibit back in the middle 80s. It was brilliant! I love Andy and Pop Art in general. Also Roy Lichtenstein is another one of my favorites.
https://www.pinterest.com/leopardjoy/pop-artculture/
8 Years Ago
Joy,
Living, no THRIVING in the Bowels of New York City, from the age of 13 to middle age was certainly a HEADY experience......And without drugs...Even though it was All Around.
8 Years Ago
Stephen-
"And remember, none of Warhol's "art" was original"
No one before him had created the art he created. So yes, his art was original.
8 Years Ago
"Good marketing can launch an idea, but even good marketing will not keep a bad idea afloat. "
If that was totally true, how do you explain Microsoft Windows? :-)
Not to mention abut 2/3 of that stuff from AS SEEN ON TV. lol
8 Years Ago
"If that was totally true, how do you explain Microsoft Windows?"
Ha! one word... "monopoly". When there's no alternatives even the bad options make money. Kind of like how cable TV works, although that's finally starting to change...
8 Years Ago
""And remember, none of Warhol's "art" was original" "
So I guess photography is not original art.
Actually very little would be original art. An artist sits on the shore and paints a sunset, did he create the sunset? Maybe he paints a seascape, did he create the sea and the seagulls or the rocks formation the stuff is crashing on?
How about wild artist?
Still life?
Portrait artists?
Need I go on?
8 Years Ago
There was no monopoly when Gates succeeded with windows. The standard was an operating system called CPM. Linus was around and was a much better system and still is if you ask some developers. Then there was that other little company that had a operating system called Apple.
Gates made a ton of money on a flawed system and just kept pouring money into it and basically pushed everyone out of the way.
8 Years Ago
CPM, that's command file format, right? Haven't seen that acronym in forever! Windows was released in 85, Linux in 1991. But I don't want to derail the thread. :)
8 Years Ago
@Cynthia Decker
Linux derived from Unix (inspired by Minix and at time was called the Unix Clone). UNIX was developed by AT&T before CP/M. Even though Linux was released in 1991 the underlying core is a lot older than CP/M. Apple OSX also uses a form of UNIX.
8 Years Ago
Floyd-
A "bad idea" is only one's opinion. A negative attitude is not shared by those that have a positive attitude. One might say that Warhol's work is bad. While another person finds it good.
Differences of opinion oftentimes helps in the marketing of art.
No response to your query of photo art.
8 Years Ago
Focusing on "originality" sets up an unnecessary roadblock to creativity. There isn't anything new, but there are an infinite number of new ways to use the old things. Some artists reach genius-level status by simply doing something different with objects and images that people see (and dismiss) every day. Making a soup can car-sized, for instance :-)
Each of us is far more original than we realize. The best art comes from trusting your instincts and doing it your way.
On the other hand, creative genius is often achieved because the artist -- try as s/he might -- isn't good enough to duplicate another artist's efforts. They have to do it their way; it is the only road open to them.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
OR, because of their limited skill set, they copy things very badly, but in the process produce something far more charming and creative than that which they were attempting to copy.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
I posted, but I knocked the client base, so my post literally only half showed up?
Oh well.
Dave
8 Years Ago
There are lot's of artist that are (or were) both creative and marketing geniuses right up there with Warhol. LeRoy Neiman & Salvador Dali were both great artists and great salesman. One did everyday items and people (Neiman) and the other totally unique for the most part (Dali). But even Dali used everyday items and people form time to time.
Dali pulled some crazy stunts to promote his work. He also mad a couple of movies that featured simulated mutilation of live humans that were very realistic for the times. Most people were outraged. Today mutilation is everyday crap on TV and in movies.
Neiman was also a great showman and gave a lot of his work away to gain notoriety.
8 Years Ago
Gates made a ton of money on a flawed system and just kept pouring money into it and basically pushed everyone out of the way.
ewww ewww I got this one too......
compared to what? The US govt, a much much bigger and more flawed system.
LOL
Dave
8 Years Ago
"compared to what? The US govt, a much much bigger and more flawed system. '
US Government it the largest financial failure in the history of the universe.
It is only the fact that they can confiscate the wealth of others (tax payers) that keeps them going.
8 Years Ago
But Floyd, The Russians probably run in the black. Certain some states in Africa run
close to being in the black.
We are digressing here. Get my email?
Dave
8 Years Ago
Dave and Floyd-
You guys got kicked off facebook? Seems like the facebook chatter I read on subjects unrelated to related subjects.
8 Years Ago
I only pretend to be on FB.
Danl, I hope you redirect this conversation back to where you want it.
There are many creative thoughts expressed on this thread. So redirecting
the thread to refresh the conversation is more than worthwhile.
Dave
8 Years Ago
Andy Warhol's Painting Of A Dollar Bill Could Sell For -- Wait For It -- $28 Million
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/andy-warhol-one-dollar-bill_n_7698372.html
8 Years Ago
Thanks, Frank. I love it! Can't wait for the results :-)
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
I can't understand what all this "Warhol" thing has to do with this thread
It's clear to me that the thrust of this thread, can't be any clearer
As this video shows
8 Years Ago
"I can't understand what all this "Warhol" thing has to do with this thread"
We're discussing Warhol's quote. But yes, it applies to everyone.
Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online
8 Years Ago
One may say all sorts of things about Warhol and his Art
But one thing that is indisputable
Andy Warhol GOT IT DONE
8 Years Ago
Dan
I also like Warhol's quote in your link that sez....“Making money is art. And working is art. And good business is the best art.”
Thanks for the link.
8 Years Ago
I love that quote, thanks for the reminder. Everyone comes into this world, the thing is to leave this world a better place than you found it, that is add some value, contribution in a meaningful way. Andy W, did that in a way that brought art to the masses rather than a few rich elites, that is why he called his studio the factory. Something like what FAA is doing, because not everyone can buy originals.
8 Years Ago
"fear of rejection" - Life is hard - sometimes - and sometimes we make it hard on ourselves. My art has seldom been "rejected" - and has won a few awards and has sold quite a few. I've never "worried" about being rejected or my art being rejected - worry causes stress and wrinkles - certainly don't need any more of either.
8 Years Ago
Love the wisdom and the quote, Monsieur Danl! Wasn't much of Warhol's work silkscreen prints? Didn't he increase the value of silkscreen prints and blurred the line between popular culture and fine art. We owe a debt to Andy for his work becoming popular. He helped to widened the scope of fine art subjects for artists. He was the highest paid graphic artist in NYC before he became famous as an artist. No wonder he knew key people. He probably helped increase the value of prints in general. We may not have the potential to make as much money without Andy's help.
8 Years Ago
Suzanne-
What I have read, Warhol used a fine silk to squeeze his inks through onto his surface of choice.