Death + Life - Image May Upset

Please add a warning in your title that there is an image people may not want to see!

Abbie, this wasn't a complaint about anything related to FAA/Pixels, etc... this wasn't about another competing art platform, or anything divisive, or political, or religious.

This was about Life, confronting Death, and "art".

Is THAT's still "unacceptable" here, please do us both a favor and just delete the freakin' post. I thought I was still on an "art" site, talking to "artists".

Death + Life does NOT warn me I'm getting ready to see a dead baby bird, geez...where is the unlike button :(

Put a link to the supersized image instead, with a warning!

This artist was eating at the time I clicked. ew

My little sister happened to be looking over my shoulder, she was not amused nor was I...

Oh, I forgot. This needs to be either live animals, flowers or landscapes. And, look good on a "tote bag" or "cell phone cover" to be considered as "art".

My bad. Please feel free to delete the thread Abbie... I ain't selling anything. Doesn't matter. Just thought I'd talk about life confronting death is all. If there's nothing related to "art" there, no worries if you want to censor my offering.

And in case some of you haven't been clued in yet, death is very much apart of this life experience. Instead of turning your head away in fear & disgust, you'd be very much better served to face it head on, accepting, and without fear.

Jus' sayin'

Skip,

as usual excellent work.

Not in good taste, but that is hardly the point.

Dave

I am happy to join the conversation Skip, I just would have liked to be warned about the image. I think about death and life often. It may be hard for this thread not to drift towards religion, but let's just say I am reminding myself everyday to make the most of the moment.

Skip, I think your idea for this thread is a worthy endeavor and I get it, life is precious and sometimes it takes seeing death or being close to death to allow us to grasp the reality of how precious life really is. Many people who have been near to death or experienced serious life and near death situations, even sick people that have over come grave illnesses gain a new perspective on life, many of them changed profoundly by their experiences. Death is a part of life, and though many are squeamish about death or images of death much perspective and a deeper understanding of how valuable and precious and fragile life can be is to be gained from exploring it, morbid a subject that it may at first appear to be.

Skip, it's not the title or the concept of the thread at issue, it's the dead baby bird slapped up in your face. A link to the image with a warning instead maybe? Or just a discussion, "hey, I saw a dead baby bird today and took a picture, here's the link (if you want to see it) It really brought home to me this whole life and death thing, let's have a discussion."

I think our perception that we're separate is an illusion, and the material bio-vessels that house spirit are simply sophisticated cages that prevent us from truly knowing the nature of the omnipotent energy animating and knowing ALL.

This hauntingly beautiful, fragile cage is just a reminder of that for me. :)

As a girl that lives in the country - I guess we're a little more accustomed to the death of little critters. Never pleasant, but a constant reality in most of the world that isn't a big city (I was city born and raised). What kind of a bird was it?

We must be ready to face the inevitable end in order to fully live. I lost my first husband to cancer and can tell you the utter reality of that thought.

Awareness being perceptions, being alive means there has to be a separation with death.

You are getting programmed responses. No need to be upset with the responses from other human beings
that you are supposed to be getting, is there?

Art is moving beyond the abstract expressionists enraging audiences with splat to the figurative artists challenging
audiences with perspectives. A large part of what I do as well, but remember you are challenging them, you might
as well live with what they have to say.

Dave

Looks like a blue jay to me.

I was in the hospital recently with a foot infection. The infection got in my blood stream and was septic. The nurse told me that could be very serious. A Facebook friend told me that was how her father died. Lying in a hospital bed hooked up to an IV and other machines while being told they would try to save my foot while worried about the infection that could kill you does make you contemplate your own mortality. I decided I was OK if I left the hospital in a bag, but I survived as did most of my foot and three toes.

This week I decided to share photos of my foot. It looks like a piece of raw meat or something you'd see in a medical examiners office. I wrote about it on my GFM site, then posted the link to a password protected gallery here. I had described in detail how it looked ame made them hit a link and type in a password to see it. A bit different than scrolling down and seeing a dead bird suddenly. That deformed foot aint art!

Oh. And half of the views to the shots come up as NY or Beverly Hills!

I think that initial reactions here drive home the point of this topic, which is life is more precious in the face of death. But the initial outrage over the bird picture exclusively kills this point, before it is sufficiently addressed.

I just saw a news story about a far more disturbing situation than a picture of a dead bird. It was about a LIVE dog, whose mouth someone had taped shut so tightly that it forced the dog's teeth to cut its own tongue. Fortunately, the picture I saw was of the freed dog. I briefly entertained the notion of killing a person who would do such a horrible thing. In this instance, the preciousness of life would be compromised, I'm afraid.

I bet these words disturb some of you as much as that bird picture. Sorry, but that's the point. We SHOULD be disturbed about things that are so precious.

A friend of ours died recently. She was my wife's best friend. It seemed to take forever, but it was about 9 months total from diagnosis I think. All through the holidays and through Easter.

What amazed me was how my wife and her friends all pitched in to help so that their friend could die the way she wanted to... at home with her animals. There aren't safety nets here for people without money like many seem to think, but my wife and her friends gave all they had to help their friend through the last several months. Nothing to do with religion, nothing to do with pity, completely unconditional love, and nothing to do with anything but "she would do the same for us."

I wondered what I would do in the same situation. Would I take that bottle of morphine and end it quick? Or, maybe go to Oregon where it's legal to do so?

Or, would I fight until the end for every last breath?

Not long ago we found a baby bird like this one... a little younger I think. My wife did everything she could to try and save it. She made a nest for it and got out a tall ladder to suspend the nest in a tree. We checked on it for a few days and it looked like the mother had come back to care for it. Then some hard rains came and it was just too much for the poor little thing.

Then, earlier today I was walking and talking to a friend who found out his sight is going and his feet are messed up. Sounded likely to be diabetes to me and I told him he should take it seriously. I told him that with a healthy diet, etc. you can get an extra 30 years than if you ignore it. He didn't care. Said he's had a good life and didn't want to spend his life eating vegan, etc. that he'd rather keep doing what he's been doing and die enjoying his life... whatever was left.

I couldn't understand that. Life's so precious, why wouldn't you at least try?

Then, moments later I saw this baby bird on the sidewalk. My first reaction was like many of you... "I don't want to see that." "Ew" "Gross", etc. Then, I stopped myself and went back. I studied it's form, what it'd become, and what it might have become. I didn't want to just look away with disgust and fear. I made the image you see above to preserve the image and study it further. I wanted to accept that this is just as much a part of this existence as a flower blooming.

Often I go to cemeteries as well. I find many of them beautiful and peaceful. And, they remind me that this is where we're all going to end up. All of you, me, your parents, your children, your spouses, your loved ones, your little sister... everyone. And to live in fear and denial of something so natural is just absurd. You have to learn to accept this, not be afraid of it, and recognize how magnificent each and every moment you get to take a breath is. Don't just cower away in fear.

Meet it face to face and then thank your lucky stars and take another breath of this sweet life.

I think it's beautiful. Have you ever noticed that when something dies, all the feasts begin for critters smaller than us. I think it's beautiful.

Nicely worded, Skip H.

I used to be in another artist forum, where there was an artist whose signature slogan was ... "Death is normal."

I would take it even further and say, ... "Life is infinite, wherein death is relative."

Thought provoking, I'll say that. I was wary about clicking on a thread entitled "Death + Life." I had a feeling it wouldn't be pretty.

Any shocking element to a being's mind is very perceptive. To those flies, that naturally dead bird is nice source for food. Yet, a dead bird doesn't look nice to few meat-eaters, unless it is fully cleaned and neatly displayed in a supermarket.

Skip has raised a very valid point about provoking art posted on an art site. What else to expect when you click on a thread about "Death and Life"?

Life

capture each moment
be aware of instant breath
enjoy the fullest

live with easy breaths
be grateful for each moment
enjoy happiness


Death

accept when it comes
knowing life also will pass
enjoy the last breath

death – secret of life
expecting it’ll come one day
exit to new world

Viet Tran
http://papercollage.ca/

The conversation is interesting and thought provoking, the picture is very large and in your face and life sized on my monitor and I hope Parker's sister doesn't have this image floating in her head when she went to bed tonight, I will for sure so....thanks.

Fear or lack of preparation for death is pretty much a Western conceptual problem. Eastern cultures and groups that hold their beliefs ( see, I didn't say the 'r' word) are far more tuned into the circle of life, death being just part of that circle. *** check out Viet Tran's poem.
Personally, I never understood why births are so celebrated and looked forward to ( before that baby has accomplished anything) and death is feared and not planned for ( when that person HAS lived a good life.....)

I also love going to cemeteries where my loved ones are buried. I can thank my interest in genealogy for that. My family tree now has 10 generations documented. We all need to remember whose shoulders we stand upon.

I really can't believe some reactions to a little dead bird in this thread. In this video you will see a celebration of lots and lots of dead animals much larger than a little bird, but don't dismay, it's a wonderful thing!

Skip,

I have wanted to add an image, but waited over 24 hours. I keep coming back to this thread.

My last work is based on man's need to find a protector, a killer and then elevate the killer as a leader.

Caravaggio's David and Goliath. David was not European. He was anything, but the sweet kid next door.

Killer, protector, turned hero......nothing has really changed......

"And you might not have liked the image"

David, the thread required a warning. The OP pretends not to know why. I'm just delving into that aspect.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

"required a warning" - really?

"It's all about packaging and aesthetics."

Dan,

I simply addressed what you said.

The OP did not pretend not to know why. He knows why. That is why he posted the image.

Skip made a major statement with a photo. He fully knew he'd get responses.
My thing is now he must accept those responses.

He has well thought this through quite obviously. When I do that I add acceptance
of others as a corner stone.

Dave

Why would the thread require a warning when the Recently Sold page does not?

It hasn't been that long ago that the Recently Sold page appeared when I first logged in and I was faced with a very graphic nude image of a woman's rear end as she was bending over.

Personally, I'd rather see a gross photojournalism image without warning --- one that I had to choose to see by opening the discussion--rather than having the graphic nude pop up without warning when I logged in. That image would have grossed out anyone's little sister!

Kathy K. McClellan
http://keppenart.com

The opening image of the current thread required no warning, in my view, and so I am still in disagreement with Dan T. and others on this point.

I gave no warning about the video I posted on vaginal knitting, and not once did anybody even suggest a warning. The thread was simply closed, when I started to SERIOUSLY address the underlying issue, which I accepted as a true barometer reading of the editorial policy here.

What does this say, however? - that we accept provocative images involving the anatomical center of life more readily than we accept provocative images about the anatomical reality of death? THAT is indeed interesting.

I think that we have stumbled upon a cultural evolution roadblock here.

Robert, you are correct in your observations, it's silly to require a warning for this thread, laughable to be more correct, I agree.

Robert,
Our moderator Abbie, requested the warning in the very first comment. Skip merely complied. The thread may have been shut down had he not.
based on that, I don't think the title represents the artist's point of view.

I really was just walking along, had stuff on my mind, saw this deceased bird and tried to ignore it and look away. I kept walking, but stopped and went back to have a closer look and make an image with my cell phone. Did a quick iPhone edit on it, then posted it to instagram with a brief text about it and how it made me feel. I posted even more in this thread about most of what was on my mind when I decided to make the image.

After posting, I thought maybe some others might appreciate the form, sentiment, and personal expression. Nothing more. I really had no earthly idea it would get so many "feathers" ruffled.

Here's another quick iPhone edit I just did of the same bird from a slightly different angle. I made it look more lively, happy and festive as if it's coming back to life... like a Phoenix.

"Phoenix" by Skip Hunt :)

Skip H.,

What you failed to do was put a smiley face on the image.

There is your packaging Dan..........Lol

Skip...NOW it's rising!

I said 'ew' because I was eating. I have nothing against the thread in itself.

I am an empath which is my curse in many ways. I could never desensitize myself to the things that happen to people or creatures even if I wanted to.

Ive relocated poisonous spiders, snakes, just random things because I cannot bring myself to kill it.

One thing for sure,

Taking a picture of a dead bird is a lot easier than taking pictures of live ones!

On the original image, the green flies give some of the most outstanding color impressions. I find them very aesthetically pleasing, on second look.

The bird is no longer alive, and so, even if it had the same emotional makeup as humans, I feel confident that it would not mind us admiring its carcass artistically when it no longer had any consciousness to detect ANYTHING we might be doing.

How does this whole thing fare with the dead-human-body art installation that tours the world ? [I forgot the name of it]

Robert, you're referring to "Bodies: The Exhibition." But that's not the same. In order for it to be on par, you'd have to photograph a decomposing human body in a back alley, and post it here. Anybody up for that? It's a part of life you know. So beautiful...how could anyone not like that?


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Morbid? Local news at 10 pm is worse!

By the way... I didn't add the "warning" to this post. I'm not sure who did. I'm guessing Abbie. I thought her first admonition was more of a warning for future posts. Personally, I didn't think it really needed one, but hey... I don't get most of what people get all flustered about these days anyway. ;)

Here is my pretty life and death shot....

Robert, you're referring to "Bodies: The Exhibition." But that's not the same.

It's not the same thing, I agree. Still, the reaction to a dead bird image with some interesting colors here seems a bit overboard.

I suppose a dead body in an alley COULD be beautiful. It just depends on how you tweaked the contrast and colors.

Suppose the exact same dead bird had been in a bed of beautiful flowers. This setting probably would have changed the whole reaction. ... AND the whole intent of the photo, which would NOT have been what the photographer was going after. I think the photographer here was enticing us to view death with a little less dread than we do, ... as a backdrop to appreciate life. He was providing an image of the opposite of what we treasure, in order to motivate that very feeling of treasuring. He obviously failed here in some instances, but NOT with ME. I totally get it.

Me too.

Skip, sadly, that addition to the title changed the whole complexion of the thread.
It challenged and welcomed people to be upset.
Your topic was more about appreciating life and not turning away....
If it had been mine, I would have closed it.

Anyway it's an art site and art is not always just pretty or magical.............................

I don't think it did at all, Marlene

It's a good topic and has had a lot of response and, since the addition to the title, a lot of views. But, and this is the main crux of the matter, people who get easily offended as is their right before anyone jumps on that, can choose not to view a deceased thing.

YOU lot may scoff but some people do not want to see this.

It's also stopped the complaints as many still opened but I have been able to say... Well, you were warned

Since you posted the change, I would expect you to hold fast to your opinion.
BUT, As an outsider looking in with no bias....
The warning didn't keep anyone from being upset...if anything it encouraged people to weigh in on what THEY thought SKIP posted, coloring their opinion of the OP and redirecting the conversation.

That said, you're the boss of these threads....so I'm outta here ;)

Anyway it's an art site and art is not always just pretty or magical.............................

Shocking that you should say such a thing!

You are a sorely deluded person, my friend. Art should ALWAYS be pretty and magical. (^_^)

Skip H. maybe should have added a couple of vocalists singing an angelic, classically soothing background song. This would have prettied it up and made it more magical.

And, just my opinion, but don't you think that a warning only entices people even MORE to look? Sure, the warning serves as a good policy move, to handle complaints, because you can always say, "Well, there was a warning right there on the package, and YOU chose to ignore it, so your displeasure is YOUR fault, not ours." But does a warning really DETER somebody from looking in the first place?

On a public forum, it's nice if you give people a clear idea of what they're going to see when it's something you would think twice about showing to your kid or your grandmother. That's my yardstick, anyway.

That said, I don't find this image offensive. The shot was very intimate. Death is the ultimate vulnerability. I don't think all art needs to be attractive or packaged as such. I don't think all art needs to be saleable. Sometimes it's more journalism, giving witness to a moment or chronicling an emotion or an epiphany. There is so much wonderful art that isn't soothing to the eye or even easy to look at.

I recently saw this quote:

"Art should disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed."
Me, I don't think all art needs to do that, I'd change "should" to "can". But disturbing and unpleasant and frightening all have a place in the definition of what art is.