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Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Sell Limited Edition On Faa

The is currently a thread going about sales being slow (as there is always is) an I mentioned that I do not believe that there is any slow down in the market place. I based that opinion on the fact that while my FAA sales are down, because I am not advertising FAA any longer, that I have seen an increase in sales of my higher priced, limited edition prints on my other sites.

However I have sold several Limited Editions here on FAA as well and I don't see any reason why everyone can not offer limited editions of their own prints.

All you need to do is designate specific images as Signed and Numbered. Limited Editions and post them as for sale with you contact information. Of course you can not then sell the same images a open edition POD prints.

In order to do that you have to have a local printer that will print for you. Or you have to use some other sort of fulfillment center. You can not use FAA to print these. You will be paying full retail for the work done and then have to add a mark-up to that full retail price. That will make you prices way to high.

You can even offer free shipping as long as you figure it all into your price because there really is not such thing as free shipping. You can keep shipping and packaging cost down by offing them sold unstretched and shipping them rolled in a tube. I find most people do not want to mess with stretching. That being the case, you have to figure in boxing and packaging materials. If you work with a wholesale to the trade printer, many of them sill ship to you in boxes that can be reshipped. That is the only bad part of dealing with an out of town printer. But they have to get signed some how.

These are the last three Limited Edition Prints I have sold via FAA contacts over the last few months.

Sell Art Online Sell Art Online Art Prints

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Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding of limited edition is the prints are all printed at once. An art proof is first printed. Then after the artist ok's the quality the rest of the edition is printed, signed and numbers.

This is how Graphik Dimensions /PictureFrames.com, FAA's fulfillment partner operates if you have them print your limited editions.

This why I only currently offer open editions as I am not interested in making the upfront investment in an image that I'm not sure will sell. At least at this point.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

I've been doing a lot of research on this over the last couple of months. Have had useful threads and users message me with more good info. This is the direction I'm headed myself. I'm not pushing it yet because I need to get rid of all the open editions here and on other platforms first, and figure out what's sold before and what hasn't etc. And, I need to work out the details with my local printer first. I've forgotten the name of FAA's supplier, but didn't know they printed limited editions. Good info to check into. Thanks Edward!

Seems the "rules" for limited edition are kind of loose as far as I can tell. Some sell limited edition in a particular size, but open in other sizes. While this doesn't appear to be against any "rule", it does appear to be frowned upon.

Some sell limited editions on one media, ie. paper. Then when that edition is sold out, they may sell another limited edition on a different medium like aluminum. This seems to be reasonably well accepted.

Just about all include a signature somewhere and a certificate of authenticity. As well as the numbering.

I'm not sure about the "artist's proof" angle. I know it used to mean the first test prints that got the artist's approval as Edward mentions, but I know of some who'll have a test print made on the medium of choice, and sell the ones that were good, but not the final cut as "artist proofs".

I was also under the impression that a limited edition meant they were all printed at once, but in the digital printing age, I think many are just guaranteeing there won't be any more made after the edition is exhausted. Other sites/platforms don't seem to think there's any problem with this either.

Like Floyd, I've started my own Limited Edition gallery on FAA/Pixels, artistwebsites, and just put my contact info in the description. However, be sure you know that if you don't have prints for sale, those images won't show up in the premium site and Facebook embedded stores. Has to have prints to even be viewable. I tried adding a cell phone case and pillow but it still won't display. That's fine for me because I've decided I'm not going to use those embedded tools anymore anyway. Luckily, the widget embeds link to your image in your artist website so the view can see the work and the image description with your contact info. So the widgets are still quite useful.

@Floyd, I see your limited editions still have cell phone cases only available. Why is that?

Here are a few of mine I'm making limited edition and how they're displayed, etc. to start off with. I wish the gallery descriptions were more prominent, but it's at least serviceable HERE

Sell Art Online Sell Art Online Art Prints



 

Milan Karadzic

8 Years Ago

Ed ,

It is not necessary for limited edition of prints to print all files in advance.
For example if you sell photo with limited edition of 10 it is not necessary to print all ten files on canvas or paper etc and to keep them somewhere in house until you sell them.

You print one by one how you sell.


I sell limited edition of prints on 2 web sites and on my web site.
I print when I have order from client.

Best

 

The 'rules' of LE are getting looser, all the time. Don't forget that in many states the Certificate of Authenticity is required by law.

I sold Limited Editions, once upon a time, but never felt comfortable with it in this age of limitless, perfect, digital prints. Also, just when I'd sell out a small edition, someone would ask to buy a copy. Aaarrrgh -- lost sales!!!

And the paperwork . . . I hate paperwork and there's considerably more of it when dealing with Limited Editions.

On the other hand, I've lost more than one show or sale because all my work is Open Edition. Some people like apples, some like oranges. ;-)

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

None of the major publishers I am dealing with are preprinting Limited Editions any longer. They are doing POD. When a gallery orders a print from the publisher, they print it and ship it to the gallery or directly to the retail buyer at the galleries request.

The idea of inventorying Limited Editions went by the way side when Giclee printing came into it's own. That was the way it was with litho's.

I know have direct relationships with several artist that I sell Limited Editions for. They are not printed until they are ordered and paid for.

I do have some Giclee inventory that I own out right. I consign them to two or three local galleries at the same time I offer them for sale on the net. Broadens the market for me. Works real well.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

"@Floyd, I see your limited editions still have cell phone cases only available. Why is that? "

Thanks Skip, it seems that I have missed removing some of those cell phone prices. I need to go back and recheck them again.

The certificates are no big deal and the computer tracking makes it much easier then it used to be to do limited editions.

The big thing is finding a high quality printer and not over paying for your prints.

I would also caution that you do not do very small numbers in the edition for the same reason mentioned above. The best stuff will sell out fast and then that is the end of it. Of course you can offer it in LE in different sizes. The best stuff also is what draws people in to see the not see the less popular images so it is important to have a large enough run but not way to large. If you are very well l known you can get by with larger runs.

Myself, I would never do less then 100 and higher then 500 myself.

Go to FrameHouseGallery.biz and see what Somerset Fine Art is doing. They offer different sizes and open editions in the smaller sizes on the same images. I like the idea of the very large sizes being less numbers (and more money) and the smaller they get they are less money but more in the edition.

Look at their top sellers, Andy Thomas, G. Harvey and Rod Chase to name a few.

Artist Proofs are still popular but there is no real reason for it anymore. The idea used to be that the first lithos off the press were higher quality, the thinking being that the plate lost clarity as you ran off more copies. Certainly not valid with Giclees where each one is the same clarity. They do bring more money so I would do them.

I would also like to see more and more limited editions on FAA because I think it is something that Sean may be interested in adding a shopping cart somehow broker the deals. Maybe the more he sees the more interest he may have going forward. Just a thought.

 

Judy Kay

8 Years Ago

I always wondered how Limited Editions work when dealing with the internet theft issues, Even though your intentions are to only print and sell a certain amount of editions, what control do you have on the thieves who are downloading your stuff and selling that print in china or elsewhere in the world! ...and what impact will that have on the buyer who bought that "limited edition" only to find that print is selling elsewhere?!

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

@Floyd, You say that it's ok to do separate editions in different sizes... how common is that? I asked a friend who's got stuff in the $2k-$15k range, sold by galleries in LA, Aspen, and NY. He says the different sized editions are acceptable but frowned upon by collectors. What's your experience and opinion regarding this?

He also said I should keep the editions low, ie. around 50, but that seems awfully low. I was thinking more closer to 100 as you cite.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

@Judy, I think that's where your actual signature and your certificate of authenticity comes into play.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

I would think a limited edition is by size. So you would only offer a single size.

Less than 100 seems right if not 25. Certainly not 995. The point is you want the edition to sell out before they come on the secondary market. Unlike PL where he keeps cranking them out and people can't unload theirs. You're suppose to be creating value. Otherwise one would stick to open editions.

LE would come with 1. signature 2. number 3. certificate

...
Personally I'd be more comfortable offering something like 15 that I printed and inventoried to ensure they come off the same printer and look the same. The way not to do it would be to wait until the order comes in and then look around closest printer.

I'd also be upfront on the process, and give all the details of the marks on an authentic print for the collectors to be able to tell the difference if they happens to be knock offs around.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Each of my S/N prints come with a professional appraisal, my bio, enlarged photos of different areas of the art, signature and number, a notarized certificate of authenticity....all enclosed in a three ring folder. (ten pages in all. I pay $200 per piece to have this work performed by an independent/licensed art curator.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Tell us more Monsieur if you don't mind - how big are these editions and how are the printed?

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Two of the major leaders in the industry of Limited Editions as far as major publishing houses go are Somerset Fine Art. They sell millions and millions of dollars worth of limited editions and have been doing it for over 30 years.

I think they have it figured out. There is no need to totally reinvent the wheel.

Here is a link to a new image that is soon to be released by Andy Thomas. Thomas is one of their hot sellers and has been for some time now.
http://www.somersetfineart.com/ps-7589-1168-crazy-horse-at-little-big-horn-by-andy-thomas.aspx#.VWePu89Viko

There going to be 10 different versions of this image including Artist's Proofs, Singed and Numbered Limited Edition (both paper and canvas), Open Editions signed and open editions unsigned.

But this is just one artist. One of Rod Chase's new releases was done in only 6 versions. Every artist can be different. Every image can differ.

There are no hard and fast rules. Just go see what some of the most successful artists and publishers are doing and decide for yourself where and how you want to me in the business.

I would strongly caution anyone, especially painters, from doing very small editions. One your burn through that edition, that it is for that image. It is now worthless to you.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Good point Floyd - with the painting you also have the original to sell.

The idea is to gauge the market. Its rather embarrassing if you start with an edition of 1000 and only sell three. You'd be better off with an edition of 15.

....

In your example the inside joke is the 15 artist proofs which are not different than the rest of the edition. PL does the same thing. Jacks up the price of the artist proofs. He also uses a tiered system that raises the price as the edition starts to run out. Unfortunately this is about the same time the secondary market starts to back up.

...

Actually some of the APs are in the 50 range! Jeez, it take 50 prints for the artist to approve? Artist proofs are suppose to be prints that the artist keeps for themselves not some kind of bogus up charge.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Floyd??? the copyright stays with the artist??? but no more editions. That I get. Can I then use that same image for other "goods"????

addition: Looking at Somerset, they are for "traditional artists" leaves me out.

I think.

Floyd can you recommend a good limited edition site for me?

TIA,

Dave

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

" The point is you want the edition to sell out before they come on the secondary market."

That is should be of little or no concern. People that are shopping the secondary market are people, that to a great degree, are shopping for used prints or a specific print or artist. They are not the same buyers. You will be selling to people that are looking for brand new product, not previously owned.

The secondary market, such as it is, is any print that is resold by the original owner. That can be the first print you sell and be the day after you sell it.

Unless you become very famous, you stuff is not ever going to listed in the few dealers that specialize in that secondary market. You need for forget about that and worry about selling enough product and getting famous, then worry about such things.

The idea that all signed and numbered prints appreciate in value is a non starter. In fact only a tiny, tiny percentage of them will ever be worth what people pay for them.

There is another factor in play here.

If you want to enter the real world where signed and numbers are being sold, you need to think long range and you to start positioning yourself in the market place like you belong that. Piddling around with editions of 25 is going to make you look amateurish.

You also want to be looking long term at hopefully a gallery or two wanting to rep your work. Again those small editions are not going to be taken seriously.

Again, I would look at what artist like Andy Thomas and others are doing. It does not cost you a dime more to make your self look bigger in the market place by offering editions or 250 then editions of 25.

Go to a trade show. The have them in Las Vegas, Atalanta, Dallas, Chicago and New York. See what others are doing. You will find artist that are brand new in the business trying to sell to distributors and maybe even hook up with a publisher or just sell some prints to retail galleries.

Here's another problem with tiny editions. You advertise only 25 and a year from now you are still advertising prints in that edition still for sale. Kind of yells that they are not selling. You offer 250 or more and no one is going to think any thing of it.

It is all about marketing and positioning your self in the market place.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Floyd??? the copyright stays with the artist??? but no more editions. That I get. Can I then use that same image for other "goods"????

Not always. When we published we bought a few copyrights. I still own them.

Some publishers will buy copyright and they can do what ever they want with the images, with in what conditions are laid out in the terms of the contract of sale.

Some artist will sell the copyright because they what or need money up front.

Most publishers will no allow any other open or closed editions of the art. Some will not allow licensing unless they are the licensing agent as well.

But it is all negotiable.

I don't know if there are and sites that sell limited editions beyond the obvious Amazon, eBay, Bonanza. That is why I had so many stand alone webpages of my own. Or branded sites like my FrameHouseGallery.biz branded Somerset site.

I also have my direct email campaigns. I have 15 years of emails from past buyers. That list is priceless to me.

 

David Bridburg

8 Years Ago

Floyd,

I am now in the process of adding a couple of very willing subscribers to my email list daily.

I sent you an email.

Dave

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Thanks for all the insight Floyd.

I just think it looks bad if you are trying to sell prints as an investment and the secondary market is there not being able to move anything. Its much more obvious these days because you have sites like Artbrokerage with 800 PLs listed. One would wonder why they would make the investment if they can't unload them.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

"Actually some of the APs are in the 50 range! Jeez, it take 50 prints for the artist to approve? Artist proofs are suppose to be prints that the artist keeps for themselves not some kind of bogus up charge.'

Not tying to be argumentative here. But this is just now what is going on in the industry any more. There are agents, artist's representatives, power of attorneys, lawyers and all kinds of things and arrangements in play. All of it legal, but not common knowledge.

You are correct that the more popular artist on the more popular images will raise the price as the edition starts to sell out. Most of the publishing houses will raise princes yearly, straight across the board. In the last few years, that has not been the case.

I know one very, very popular artist that is with one the major houses that refused to price his art where it should be. He has ridicules low prices. They keep trying to get me to carry his stuff and I keep telling them I will as soon as they raise the prices about double. His newest release retails for $239 in a stretched canvas for a 40 x 24. He is a photographer and a very good one. And he has been doing it for years after making a fortune in another business. He has 130 images with the one supplier. He had at least a thousand images when he was with another supplier that he quit. He sells a ton of images, A few are signed, most are opened not signed and no limited that I have ever seen,

Some artist will contract rights to control their own prices. But you have to be really strong, as in a top seller. The stronger seller you are the more you can demand and get. Just like anything. The rain makes get to write their own ticket.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

"I just think it looks bad if you are trying to sell prints as an investment'

I totally agree. The idea that the LE is an investment is out there and not a lot of dealers will tell people the facts of resale, including myself unless it comes up.

It actually does not even have to come up. If I get the slightest hint that they are buying for investment, I tell them that they should buy the print because they like it and they intend to hang in the wall and enjoy it. But the idea that it will appreciate in value is not something you should be investing in.

I have never lost a sale telling anyone that.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Edward-

50 in each edition. SIzes: 16x20 to 18x24. Cost per: S/N print $400 to $600 unframed.

That means I pay $200 for the folder for each piece.


 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Thanks MD. The buyer certainly knows what they are buying with arrangement.

....
I have two limited editions in my living room. Both are editions of 75. When you start getting over $500 for a print I would think many buyers would rather buy an original. There is plenty of great original artworks available for under $500 if you don't worry about investment.

 

Kevin OConnell

8 Years Ago

Sold Limited Editions for many years. With a site called (Fine Art America) I would think they would have made a section for these long ago, instead they seem to focus on the quick buck with tote bags, bedspreads, and pillows.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

How would FAA make the $$? They can't do the fulfillment unless you pre-ordered the edition, signed and numbered them, and then paid for them to inventory the prints.

Where is the incentive for a business to do this Kevin?

It's like publisher model which is different than a printer model.

 

Kevin OConnell

8 Years Ago

Maybe that is why they are changing there name, which would then make sense to me. Its the name that I'm mostly talking about.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

POD = Print On Demand, totally different business model and product than limited edition prints. Personally I believe in this day of digital reproduction "Limited Edition" is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

David-

Signed/Numbered editions selling at the auction houses for $10,000 to $100,000 are not gimmicks.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

I don't see POD as a business model as much as just a business term. POD: Print on demand has been around longer then the FAA kind of POD selling sties.

It simply means that the print is not printed until it is sold.

I have been selling POD limited editions and open editions for longer than FAA or any of the "POD" sites has been in existence. I guess it is just a perspective of how you were first introduced to the term.

The first people that went to POD were the huge open edition publishers. It was a Godsend to them because it meant no more huge warehouses with million of preprinted lithographs.

At this time nearly all of the publishers and most of the distributors are doing POD for open and Limited Edition prints. Lithographs are becoming hard to find.

As for FAA making a money on the Limited Editions, same way eBay, Amazon and others do it.

I sell a ton of LE's on eBay and a couple of other sites. FAA would simply broker the deal, and charge a fee for it. The can workout the same deal with PayPal that eBay does. If the seller screws up, both eBay and PayPal bring down the wrath of God on you and they will make the refund to the buyer if you, as the seller did not do the right thing.

Sean is a pretty smart guy. If he wanted to do it he would figure it out.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Danl, price has nothing to do with whether something is a gimmick or not. Creating an artificial sense of scarcity has been a long standing marketing gimmick, and limiting the production of a digital print is creating artificial scarcity, there is absolutely no legitimate reason to limit the production of a digital print. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just calling it what it is.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Limited Editions are a billion dollar a year industry. That is one hell of a gimmick! lol

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Yes it is.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Also highly susceptible to fraud.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

For what its worth, I did have an bit of an exchange with Sean some time ago. He's been kicking out ideas on how it could be done within his system. Some of the ideas he tossed out seemed acceptable and doable to me. However, it didn't sound like anything coming very soon. Who knows, maybe something is brewing in some of the new changes he mentioned. I'd guess not likely anytime soon, but the exchange did read like he's been giving this a lot of thought for sometime and is somewhat open to building something within the FAA ecosystem.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

double post.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

I don't see how saying I am only going to print 100 of these or 500 of these or what ever the number is, is an artificial sense of scarcity.

When there is 100 or anything, that makes them more scarce then if there are 10,000. That is real, not artificial.

It is not like poor and ignorant, uneducated people are being duped here.

If I had to come up with a profile of the average person that has bought a LE print from me I would say there were college educated very well to do people. I would also say that the vast majority of them are not buying for investment, but just wanted something that they were not going to see being sold in unlimited numbers in every gallery, retail store or all over every lunch box in the cafeteria of their kid's elementary school.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

If there was some demand for it then I'd be interested. Right now I'm seeing steady sales but they run across the board - only a few images have sold for multiple times. But I also haven't built up a name in the artworld. On the other hand if you do have name recognition you would go with an established player in the industry.

Right now you can buy some of my work and be guarantee the number will never exceed 75. But they aren't signed.

...

The LE I have weren't bought as an investment. Just nice knowing they are not IKEA posters. Art is not a very liquid investment so you better enjoy the work hanging on your wall.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

The only POD type player trying to create a "collectible" rhymes with plate and starts with a d. They say they will limit the number of copies and come numbered and with a hologram. Only thing missing is the artist signature.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Well, no one ever thought Beanie Babies were going to appreciate in value either. lol

Or has that craze gone away now?

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Originally prints were limited because the printing plates, stones or screens wore out with decreasing levels of quality as you got closer to the useful life of the plates, so the limit was due to a real physical limitation and numbering them actually meant something as a lower number meant a higher quality of print. Whether you print digitally 10 or 10,000 copies of an artwork they are all identical, and there is no physical limitation to how many can be printed therefore a limited edition digital print is artificial scarcity. I'm not saying it's wrong, or bad or anything, I'm just calling it what it is.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Just to summarize

I opened the thread because in another thread people were discussing slow sales. It was just an idea of how some might be able to broaden their appeal and maybe snag a few sales more.

The idea came about because in the last several months I sold several Limited Edition's to buyers seeing them on FAA. I originally only put up maybe a dozen or two LE's and for a long time I never received even one inquiry. Several months back I decided to add a few more images and see what would happen. Since adding the additional items, I have managed to sell a few LE prints.

My personal belief is that anyone can sell their own limited editions if they want to. Those that are not interested are not interested.

There is a market out there for Limited Editions. They do sell and on average, they sell for more money so if you are lucky enough snag a buyer you will make a nice sale if you kept you cost of production under control.

Everyone has there own ideas how or what it right and wrong and how to enter the business or reasons to stay out.

My advice is to go see what the successful people are doing on the large scale. The two that I would use as guidelines are Somerset Fine Art and Greenwich Workshop.

There are both photographers and painters on these sites. I would make a statement that you are just as proud of your art as any of the artist on those sites and I would enter the market place with the same numbers they are doing.

The fact of the matter is, a whole lot of the art on FAA IS every bit as good as what your will see on either of those sites. Don't under rate yourself.

Best of luck to anyone that decides to give it a try.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

@Floyd, I looked through some of your limited edition offerings and noticed you don't have the number of the edition for each. Why?

Also, I noticed that you're offering totes on those limited edition offerings too. I know you said the cell phone cases you were offering some were in error, but are the tote bags an error too?

If not an error, do you think that offering products like totes bags and cell phone covers, devalue (or the perceived value) of your limited edition offerings?

 

Milan Karadzic

8 Years Ago

I think that is a great idea for FAA to make on site one page for selling limited edition of prints.

FAA is nice site for selling art , FAA has good position on the market and I think it will be great to sell and limited edition of prints on FAA.

And why not, FAA can take commission on these sales .

For example I pay on one art site 30% commission on limited edition of prints.
It is fair, I am listed there , web site makes transaction between art buyer and art seller .

30% commission is a reasonable rate.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

30% is way to high imho. Unless they are doing the production and the fulfillment.

eBay only gets 13-17%. Of course they do no production or fulfillment.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Skip, when you activate the tortes the prices go everywhere. I just now finished editing all of those galleries and removed the prices on the totes. I did the cell phones to from those few I had missed that you pointed out for me earlier. I appreciated you doing that.

And yes, in my opinion the totes, cups, t-shires etc, etc, I do believe that it devalues the LE's. Most first class publishers will not do much of that.

But again that may be artist driven. If the artist wants it, and they are top producer the publishers will usually do it. The do do note cares on a lot of their artist. But that is about the only "accessory" product I see. But I don't do much with the licensing departments.

Look at what Kinkade did with is stuff. I had a number of friends that dumped their Kinkade relationships when he did that. Not sure if that ended up being a bottom lime mistake for Kinkade or not.

 

Milan Karadzic

8 Years Ago

Floyd,

yes I know that Ebay gets 13-17 % like you wrote .

I make prints and send to customer directly.
Web site only make listing of my item and collect money from buyer until I deliver limited edition print to buyer.

You know because you are in job , it is not the same if you are listed on some XYZ web site even if they get 5% commission , because no one serious is going to order limited edition of prints on unknown art web sites without their history and reputation on the market.

In this 30% commission you pay and "name of web site where you are listed " , their position on the market, , curator who writes about your art, their reputation.

Some best European galleries take up to 50% commission , it depends from galleries .

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

To be honest with you, I cringed when a few years back, the industry started doing the smaller sized open editions of the same images.

I still don't really like that. I thought it would hurt the sales of the higher priced prints but that never happened. If it had, they would have pulled the plug on the open editions.

I think we are going to see some major changes in the LE industry in the not to distant future. It would not surprise me to see them get into the FAA type of POD business and start signing up artist.

Keep in mind these people are inundated with artist submissions and the have a data base fill of potential artist that would kill to sign up with them.

The is also one huge open edition publisher that is getting ready to launch a service of Branded Webpages. They will build the site for the artist, the artist has full control of pricing and products and they do all of the fulfillment. Sort of the same thing FAA is doing with the AW here on FAA but with out all of the FAA aspects to it.

There are all kinds of things happening in the trade and that is why I think Sean is really smart in trying to stay in front of the curve with new products and actively attracting new sellers. He as much as admitted that that has to be part of his plan to continue to be one of the industries leaders.

I think going forward old school thinking is going to be obsolete thinking and a lot of artist unless they become a lot more opened minded to the changes coming, will be let behind. Way behind.

 

Skip Hunt

8 Years Ago

Thanks for the info and thread Floyd, just the kind of stuff I've been looking for. :)

And, for all the complaining I've done about various aspects of FAA, etc. there's no denying that what Sean has created in the artist websites is golden. I'm retooling everything, killing a few things and platforms, and hoping to keep the AW key in my new personal approach. No other platform I've tried offers the same high level of user control over most aspects of their presence. If Sean finds a good, solid, fair way to offer LE's, I'll be a happy camper indeed.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Milan, I am not sure I totally understand, but there is difference between self publishing and retailing and a gallery arrangement. So I guess I was premature in that too much comment.

Once you are self publishing you have to establish a tiered pricing structure to allow for wholesale distribution, strait wholesale and then retail.

If you cut out one of those tires you are cutting out a lot of profits.

So with that in mind, using a $100 retail price, the wholesale or gallery price would be $50, or 50% discount. The whole sale distribution price may be 50% plus 50% discount from that $100 or $35 to that distributor and he would have to buy in some sort of quantity. For those distributors that buy in huge quantities, the discount could be 50 less 50 less 30 making the price $17.50.

If you are talking about a pricing structure like that and the commission is 30%, that is fine. But way to many artist thing that 50% is the mark up in prints. I guess I was using that as a bases.

And you are 100% correct Milan, it is tough sale to have your own stand alone website and try to sell your own LE's. The creditably of the site you are using is worth a lot.

Same thing with selling on FAA. The name has push. So does branded web sites like my Somerset Fine Art site.


 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

" If Sean finds a good, solid, fair way to offer LE's, I'll be a happy camper indeed.'

You and me both.

I think that the more he sees people interest in it the more apt he is to make the leap. But the big money for him would be in the originals. Not near as many members are interested in the LEs as in selling originals. The good news is, it is the same platform.

 

Milan Karadzic

8 Years Ago

Exactly Floyd,

If you are ( hypothetically speaking ) David Lacahapelle it is not problem to sell limited edition of prints on your own stand alone web site.

But if you are relatively unknown or totally unknown artist ( even with best of the best work) it is almost impossible to sell limited edition of prints on your stand alone web site.

That's why you ( as a artist) have to pay commission to galleries or agents.

If you are listed on some famous galleries online or even better to have exhibition in real gallery you have much more chances to sell your work.

One funny example :

If I want to sell my limited edition of print on my personal stand alone web site with $1000 , probably it will be mission impossible, because my stand alone web site doesn't have history , reputation, curators , serious art buyers.

But if I have chance ( again hypothetically speaking ) to sell my art in famous Louvre Museum probably it will not problem to sell my work , because by default art buyers will think that I am something special if my work is in Louvre museum.

That's how market work.

So from my point on view I have no problem to pay and 40-50% commission to someone who knows how to sell artwork and who has connection with serious art buyers.

It is the same and with stock images.
If you want to sell expensive and exclusive Rights managed licenses for AD agencies and Ad campaigns you have to sell through well know RM stock libraries
And some stock libraries take up to 80% commission believe it or not, average commission is 50%.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Floyd - Beanie Babies? I hope that's not where you invest your life savings.

FAA auctions would be another route too. Daily specials for people to bid on.

I caught a TV fine art auction last Friday. You could get a Miro limited edition print for $350.

....

Milan - yup - the commission is part of the cost of doing business. Someone is out there bringing in the customers. Sounds good to have lower commissions but if that also means no customers than what's the point.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Milan-

There are more fake S/N prints on the market than originals. If FAA opens its doors to offering S/N prints, they better screen all artists carefully and make sure each print comes with an certificate of authenticity completed by a registered and licensed firm designated by the industry to perform said work. An artist submitting a self-prepared certificate is as worthless as me preparing a certificate for you. Ebay and other sites have been sued numerous times for offering bogus art.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Edward-

"You could get a Miro limited edition print for $350."

The Brooklyn Bridge is for sale for $100.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

But MD they show the appraisals and everything. ;-)


http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000078144

.....

Reminds me of the documentary "Con Artist" about Mark Kostobi where he sells paintings on Italian TV art shopping channel.

http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/arteducation/kostabi/secret-of-selling-art-in-hard-times6-24-11.asp

and



Selling art is hard! Especially online when you can't plug in a chocolate fountain.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

"Ebay and other sites have been sued numerous times for offering bogus art.'

There have been bogus prints around long before eBay or even computers. There is no need for the scare tactics.

The biggest forgery scams where way back in days before only selling. I have never head anything nearly as bad as the Salvador Dali, Picasso and Norman Rockwell scams that were done long before computers. There was another one too that was a huge scam, Peter Max or Joan Miro maybe. I for get now.

In fact is it was much easier to do back in them days because you could run a scam on a region bases and there was no 25/7 new coverage and online networks to disclose the frauds. The was no Internet to do research and supply you with the names, address and telephone numbers of the official publishers and even the artist themselves.

There are scams and frauds everywhere there is any serious amount of money to suggest there is any more or less in the limited edition business of on eBay lacking specific proof is spreading unnecessary paranoia.

The bottom line is there are crooks anywhere there is money. So if you want to avoid all risk, just stay away from all money.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

Edward-

I'd be happy to give you a written appraisal, but it wouldn't be worth squat. Before buying over the web, check the firm that issued the appraisal. They will have records. Make sure the number on the print matches the records, Even then, there is a lot of room for fudging. Buy only from a reputable gallery or auction house. Buyer beware.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

Indeed. The sellers reputation and history has to be stellar.

....

My Dad always liked to tell the story of one of his uncle's who sold antiques (he was also into horse racing) and would pay my dad a few nickels to scratch up some bottles on the sidewalk to make them look older.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

I think FAA is wise for allowing potential buyers to contact the artist directly regarding originals and S/N prints.This eliminates any questionable activity.

 

Edward Fielding

8 Years Ago

On a POD - A simple ticker showing how many times an image has sold would give the buyer some kind of idea of how many copies our out there - if they care. Although for bragging rights having the little penciled number and signature at the bottom is preferred for some.

I was at a party a few months ago and saw a nice signed painting on the wall. Thinking perhaps it was a local artist I asked the host where she got it. Oh I found it at Pier One she says with a laugh. One point for China.

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

Not sure that counter would not work as much or more against you as for you. I would not want a counter on my images. I no longer activate the counter on my eBay listings because the suggest that the image is not selling if it is too high. People don't seem to get the concept that if there are 500 in the edition and I sell one there are still more to sell.

I have gotten emails asking me why the piece has not sold with 300 or 500 views. When I explain it to them, they fully understand, but again, like the watermarks, how many have doubts but don't bother to ask?

On a POD it don't think people are expecting limited production. I think that is part of the profile of the POD buyers.

 

This discussion is closed.