Unwanted Entry Problem

Sean would have to do a lot of work on the back end. People don't read the rules or if they did, they don't remember the rules now. I have people uploading an image and then posting it to my 1000 views. I would figure they would get it... I just uploaded it, having 1000 views after 5 minutes might be tough... Nope I get them all the time...

monsieur you will have to as the administrator of the contest take the time and delete all the entries that are not water color/oil....

"What is your suggestion to prohibit unwanted entries before they appear in the contests?"

If youcome up with a solution for that never-ending occurance in the contests and a lot of people will be happy. Currently, there's no way to stop it beforehand that I'm aware of.

Where do I enter?

I did not know about this contest.

LOL

Danl,

I have no idea why people run contests, the work for what?

Dave

David-

I never enter my own work...but they are a form of exposure.

I think with the threat of legal action, a big rejection stamp on the images, open a thread naming all ones did not follow the rule might work LOL

Gosh Alfred, Why stop there? How about torture? It works I hear.

Dave

Tom-

I am already doing this, however, since digital art can mimic a watercolor or oil, I do not want to delete a legitimate entry if it is in fact a watercolor or oil, even gouache. It would not be fair to the entrant.

Alfred

Perhaps requiring all FAA member to chose one (only one) category posted on their Feature Page...."What Are You"

Photographer

Digital Artist

FineArtist

This category would follow their work wherever they go inside FAA. Disallowing them to misrepresent their work

if it doesn't fit erase it. just make sure the example image and the description fits what you want it to be.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

they can't make you say what you are. some people are all of those things you said and more.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Mike

Pick one and one only on FAA

I'd like a way to filter out any contest that doesn't allow photography, but hey we can all dream.

impossible.

i do fine art photography
i do digital art
i do colorizations

i don't fit one single mold. and it would be silly to be stuck with one type of art.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Maybe we can create a dress code to keep everyone in their proper place. Anyone who forgets to wear their proper hat or tie, put them in the stocks in the public square.

Mike

Some digital artists can make their work look like a watercolor or oil painting. They enter "painting" on their Feature Page.as a medium. They describe themselves as an artist in their bio.

Are you saying I should just delete their entry based on assumption?

Mike

"impossible"

Nothing is ever impossible since it has never been done or tried.

Because the contest are just for fun and have no meaning a lot of people don't read the rules they just enter whatever they can.

Be very clear on your contest rules, bullet them so they stand out. Then clearly state that entries not meeting the criteria will be deleted without warning. Then when you are combing through the entries, simply delete what you don't feel fits the rules. Don't explain it or warn anyone, just delete. I've ran about 10 contests and I only had one person question it.

"They describe themselves as an artist in their bio." - and why shouldn't they?

Dave

Artist, yes. But what type of artist..... computer, watercolor, oil, ink, sculpture, pencil, pastel, etc

One should be more explicit when discussing their occupation or avocation the the field of art.

I'm hosting on Trains on Roads contest for photographs only, the overview clearly states that. First day in, I got a painting of a still life. I deleted it sand moved on. A lot of folks just uploaded whatever random train shot they had even without a road

"Pick one and one only on FAA."

No.

Too late to close the borders and erect checkpoints when you choose to participate on POD site that is open to anyone.

listen, if you have a contest and you want paintings. and people enter the wrong thing, yeah, erase the entry. no problem.

i still don't see why i have to be stuck as one type of thing. it makes no sense at all.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Contests may be fun, but they are worthless diversions. Forcing the site - a selling site, for selling prints - to restructure the artist's definitions for the sake of contests is ludicrous. You don't sell here, hundreds of thousands of others do. It's more important that they be able to define their technique as they see fit than it is to make a severely limiting fundamental change so that administering a contest is easier for you.

Be painfully clear in your contest descriptions, something like: Traditional media only. This means physical paint, pastel, pencil, pen, or charcoal on a physical substrate, applied with a hand tool by a living hand (electronic drawing tablets, touchscreens, keyboards, trackballs, and mice are not acceptable as tools for this contest). Traditional media ONLY from beginning to end. NO digital process involved in the creation of the work at all. If you are unclear on this, you probably shouldn't enter this contest. If you misrepresent your work you will be eliminated.

And if you feel very strongly about it, you should evaluate each submission. If contests mean a lot to you, it may well be worthwhile.

I work in conventional paint, watercolor, oils and acrylics. I am also a photographer and digital artist who does digital paintings. I am not interested in being put in someones "box"

Cynthia-

Contests are not my world, but I do feel they give artists a platform for exposure. And there are those that abuse this opportunity. Pretending a digital is a watercolor or oil. Not only does this affect honest contestant but it may mislead potential customers in thinking they are buying a print of an original painting. Not a digital painting. There should be some way to define.

Rick-

No one is suggesting you be placed in a box.

But I am suggesting that artists be more explicit in listing the medium that was used to create a specific piece.

Wendy-

Pick one and only one. Then what is your suggestion in informing Contest Hosts and Potential Buyers of the medium? Just using the word "Painting".

Joseph-

It is easy to make a delete decision based on subject matter. But it is a whole different ballgame when you have to determine if a watercolor painting was done with paint on paper or digitally created. Especially when all you have to go by is the word "painting" on the artist's Feature Page.

Delete the obvious violations right away and then review the winners. If any of the winners are not genuine, knock them out too. Of course then they'll probably email and complain an it will be even more of a hassle...

I'm currently running two contests with explicit directions in the title of the contest to read the rules. That really seems to be useful. It's not a popular category (thankfully) so the images are few, but so far I have only had to delete ONE image from both contests.

Unfortunately I have to join my own contests because the aviation category rarely comes up and I wouldn't have opportunities to submit a lot of my images. That said, I don't think I would enjoy hosting a contest with several hundred images, too much of a headache worrying if every entry was legit or not.

One thing I try to do is make the contests as simple as possible

Adam-

It would be easy if I could discern between an oil painting and computer generated oil painting. Often times it is almost impossible without spending mega time researching the entrant. And even then sometimes I miss something. I try to protect those entrants who actually submitted a legitimate entry. There has to be a better way.

Joseph-

Watercolors only. No photographs or digital art.

How much more simple can I make it?

Jeff-

"People don't read the rules or if they did, they don't remember the rules"

Or do people think they can break the rules and not be discovered?

Tom

Even the best eye can't tell a counterfeit from the real thing. Not so easy.

"It's not convenient (for me) to read all those complicated rules."
"My art is so good I deserve to win even if I don't fit into the contest category."

These seem to be the prevailing attitudes among a substantial group of the members.

When I ran contests, I usually added a statement "Entries may be disqualified without notice."
Deleting an entry is just a click of a button.

Gregory-

If you have time, go to http://fineartamerica.com/contests/2-portraits-in-oil.html?tab=overview

There is a digitally generated oil painting that has not yet been deleted. Can you spot it? Please, no entry name or title. If you are not 100% sure and you delete the entry you may be doing a disservice to an honest contestant.

That actually is pretty simple. I say if you're having to ask yourself whether it's z watercolor or not, delete it

Joseph-

As a judge in several art shows over the years, I always had the opportunity to examine any piece that may be questionable. I had a tangible piece in my hands.. Online, nothing is tangible. I can only "guess" and that is not fair to each contestant. There has to be another way.

I you're not sure about the media, make your best guess, and delete it without notice if you think it's not within your rules.
I can see that sometimes it might be hard to judge that with some criteria, but usually you will be removing a non-winner even if you're wrong.

if you can't tell the difference... what difference does it make then? we are talking a prizeless contest that has less ranking than a county fair contest.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Gregory-

"but usually you will be removing a non-winner even if you're wrong"...

Maybe I should rip up my lottery tickets before the the winners are drawn....just because I don't think I have the winning ticket.

Mike-

"we are talking a prizeless contest that has less ranking than a county fair contest."

Like a friendly game of golf where one can cheat and not the other?

who says they are cheating? to choose a filter, lighting, colors and subject, and to be able to make something that can fool an actual painter... its just another way to play the game. if you can play golf and cheat, without the other guy noticing - it shouldn't make a difference. because that also takes skill.

i've seen a lot of messy images called paintings. but if you think it doesn't fit, remove it. if your fooled, then keep it. this is a case where you won't ever win. i wouldn't call it cheating though.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Um...I am a photographer...I am a digital artist...AND I sketch and do watercolors via traditional media...I didn't know that if I took photographs and loved Photoshop and Painter, it meant I couldn't pull out my sketchbook or watercolors or chalks or what have you...Totally serious...

Monsieur,
When you post the rules, also insist that the true process (traditional/oil/watercolor) without digital enhancements be revealed in the description area. I am a member of a group whose rules include one stating that the location/landmark name must be in the image description.

To make your life easier you can also wait (as someone else suggested) and only research the top three or four at the end and disqualify any winner that does not have the true process in the image description area.

Remember though, nothing is going to completely solve your frustration because not every single person anywhere is going to follow all the rules. :)

Kathy

Kathy K. McClellan
http://keppenart.com

Yes, it would be nice if everyone was consistently and unfailingly honest about their medium. Most artists are. Many don't know how to categorize themselves, so they choose a medium that's close to the end result of what they do. It's not always intentionally misleading. I do think there are people out there who do lie on purpose about what they do, but I think they're in the minority.

Just host your contest, narrow it down to the finalists, and THEN verify the validity of the work.

If you feel strongly about this, you should get with someone who understands the many MANY nuances of digital and traditional work and write a definitive blog on the subject, then share that blog in an attempt to educate others about accurately representing themselves in the art world. Other than that, there's no way you can force everyone to do things the way you'd like.

The digital painting in your contest is very obvious. I spotted it in the thumbnail as soon as I got to that page. I think the other entry by that person is also digital. You should also know there is at least one acrylic in there.

Weed them down by merit to the top 10, then check those in detail.

Dani, you can have an invitation only contest, that way you can screen all the contestants before they enter..

you just can't make people follow the rules.
all you ca.n do is not impose any. stop hosting contests and the problem will disappear

Marlene-

"stop hosting contests and the problem will disappear"

"Are you saying that FAA should omit the contest section of their offerings?" Since I am not the only person experiencing this dilemma.

DanI, I agree with you that artwork should be presented honestly. I sometimes use faux-painterly techniques in my digital work, and would never consider trying to pass it off as a painting, or anything other than what it is -- usually Photographic Art, in my case.

However, having been a member of FAA long enough to see how casually some people play fast and loose with Group and Contest rules, I would never, ever give myself the headache of being a Group or Contest moderator.

There are 875,630,921 other ways I'd choose to spend my irretrievable and woefully limited time and energy. Only you can decide how you choose to spend yours.

just make it easier on yourself and either allow anything that looks like a painting. or choose a different topic - post only red paintings or something like that. or just a single item. many call their work paintings because they ran it through a paint filter. but for the most part, many don't care, they do it to show the work, and that's what the contest is. and at the end, to complete the cheating, the get their friends to vote on their work anyway. so in the end, what difference does it make?


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Unfortunately, people just don't read rules. For example, the groups I administer have clear rules yet they are ignored periodically and I have to reject images (and, in one case, a member) for violation. All contests with tight rules run the same problem. It's part of human nature.
At work we had huge signs stuck at face height on the outer door of an office suite saying "audit in process - - no entry" yet still I had to turn away bewildered people up to VP level who clearly are incapable of processing a simple 5-word phrase and blundered in. All you can do is sigh, roll your eyes and move on.
Or, on FAA, just run an "any old carp" type contest periodically like I did as a cathartic exercise a while back.

- Richard Reeve
ReevePhotos.com

I never understood why management would allow privileges like hosting contests to free accounts.

If an artwork looks like real watercolor and it is difficult even for you to regognize that is digital... then bravo to the artist that made it and let him win.

Grigorios Moraitis
ArtHellas.com

Is there any way you can ask for work in progress before the contest?
When I do water color, it takes steps, drawing and first layer, after that dries, go over another layer, although there are many different technics.
it requires certain texture of the paper for different subject, etc. hot press, cold press. There are ways to verify. hot press you might not be able to see the texture, but cold press is rough so you can see the texture. You cannot fake this digitally. Ask How did you create this? ask questions? You can tell if this person knows how to create a watercolor painting or not. This means a person who holds contest has to be knowledgeable about the medium.

Send out a message to all participants that due to the inability of some participants being unable to follow the orescribed rules, the "contest" is being cancelled. Then delete/shut it down. I hosted two "contests" quite awhile back, and learned quickly that there are those who don't read the rules, and there are those who read them and don't care and still submit stuff not within the description of the event.

Haven't hosted one since.

I have run some contests and find that if its a specialized contest more than half the submissions are not valid, and just dumped. I do my best to delete them with no explanation. With all the software filters and such sometimes you see an image that looks like a cheater but not positive. I read the description, and hopefully can figure out if it belongs or not. If that doesn't help, i send an email to the artist asking them.

The artists that are gaming the system wont write you back, others that made a mistake or caught apologize. Usually I then wait until the last hour of the contest. If I don't hear back by the others then, the image is deleted, first place or not.

Amen, Edward.

This isn't an FAA problem, it's an everywhere problem. I'm sure brick and mortar galleries have to weed out inappropriate submissions when they put out calls.

People will always have the capacity to be incorrect, underinformed, or deceptive. A small percentage of any group of submissions will suffer from one of those flaws, willfully or otherwise. Figure out how to work with that minority of people. You can't change the wind, you have to adjust your sails.

Ultimately, this question simplified is: "How can I make people do what they refuse to do?"
The pragmatic answer is, you can't.

Edward-

"I never understood why management would allow privileges like hosting contests to free accounts."

Why not?

Free accounts, like paid accounts, give artists an opportunity to display their talents. Artists helping artists!

Oh, please! Every type of artist on FAA is appreciated and would have followers if they would simply be honest in what their "Art" is! If it is a beautiful photo that you have done some artisitc digital (or used some kind of program on) then be honest and SAY that is what it is. It is still a talent and lovely. Let it be appreciated for what it is! Don't ly about it! Let your work be appreciated for what it actually is! When I get entranced by something I see, that I like on FAA, sometimes "something" makes me take a second look, and if I have any doubt about what the Artist" claims it is, and it doesn't appear to be such, I refrain from commenting at all. I hate that because I like the work, but don't believe what they claim it is! I have seen entire portfolios that I have some doubt about what they are claiming. For goodness sakes, say what it actually is. You may find you have many more admiresrs.
OK, I am an Artist, I paint, mostly in Acrylics, I am a Photographer and sometimes I use some digital (HDR, Moku Hanga, or something else, that is new to me, on an acrylic painting or a photo). I hope I have never failed to describe what ever it is that I did to alter my work. I have had comments on all. People appreciate all types of Art work but, I am here to tell you, that if a wise person has reason to not believe the discerption, of what has been done, they will not vote on it! Be an honest Artist, about what you have done, or be left behind!

Why not? Because there is no vested interest in the community of artists selling on this site. Just using the site. This isn't a non-profit.

I, also might add that I would definitely not buy a work I that supected was not as represented!

Phyllis-

The web is filled with digital work that is made to look like water colors and oil paintings. The average "Joe" thinks that he or she is buying a copy of an original oil or watercolor when the description reads "Painting". The creator should be made to label his or her work as "digital art" if that is the medium.

In essence, when a digital artist misrepresents their work, it indicates that they are not proud to be labeled a digital artist.. Their are many very fine digital artists who are satisfied with their label as a digital artist. Those that misrepresent their work want to be more than they are legitimately.