Trying To Figure Out This Fruit

got a close up of the one cut?
blood oranges are usually darker

Unripe oranges! Things weren't imported "ripe" since the time it took to get here was so variable. Download the tif file and then see that it's an orange, probably a green navel orange,

Rich

They look like navel oranges to me. Perhaps they were shipped and sold green in the days before dumping ethylene over them to ripen them?

edit: "Snap" Rich! :D

Also, the tif show the name, "Redland Oranges" on the bottom box.

Rich

ha... didn't notice the download files at the top. There you go.

apples---oops- missed something-anyway oranges that are unripe are dark green-maybe they expected the customers to ripen their own,and just shipped them that way back then-if you google unripe oranges, you will see some good images of what i mean

Sorry, not a help but maybe something that will give you a lead: The Florida Keys at that time was an exporter of pineapples, bananas, and sugar apples. None of which helps much. It still looks like some kind of citrus to me. Considering that the frost line in much of America was much further north than it is now, you might want to check rail lines that would lead directly to that market in areas you would normally eliminate for being too cold. Hopefully someone else here will have a much better idea than a goose chase.

Edit. Ooh, Rich, I think you have it.

It's oranges as the others have said. It's also about 1890 from people's dress, rather then 1850. The LOC gave a date range of 1850-1900.

If the photographer used a color filter that could darken the fruit and make it look black. If, for example, the fruit was green and the photographer used a red filter that doesn't pass green, the fruit would look black. Or if he used a blue filter and the fruit was yellow they would also look black.

Red filters also darken blue sky, blue filters make white sky in black and white. The sky is fairly light, so it is possible he used a blue filter on yellow fruit. BUT the sky may just be overcast so I don't think a filter would have any effect, in which case he might have used a red filter. Hard to say for certain.

And maybe the "fruit" is actually cannonballs.

i saw the box there, still, i'm not sure. i think the best bet is green oranges, i wonder if the center is green too? its pretty dark. partly i think they are fancy because they have banana's there. a fruit that was very expensive and a real luxury due to blight issues. so having them there shows he's a good grocer. i'll be doing some research on the box, but i figured i'd ask here to get a head start. the rest of the colors should be pretty easy.

they gave the dates a range, i wonder how they dressed in 1850. i thought the camera was a bit early. i know there are civil war shots, i didn't think they had camera's back in the 1850's. these dates are tricky. i'll probably re-label it.

i'm not sure they used filters back then. because the other items in there are the correct shades. on the right there are pink inpatients, i saw some things that should be red. i think a filter would have made the clouds stand out better. there are clouds but they are tight in there. i had to push it to get anything from it. i'm not sure they were so fancy back then, since these are documentary type shots.

i do wonder if there is a dress guide of what they looked like by era. some of these shots aren't labeled sometimes. often i can get a general idea from shorpy, i'm not sure where they get their years though. but this one isn't in there. the year would make a lot more sense though thinking about it, since there are light bulbs in that sign back there.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

My first guess would be tomatoes... They are heavy and easily stackable and would appear dark in a B&W.

There's a row of light or white colored ones in front of the second 'tower'...hmmmm

Some searching around indicates that Redlands wasn't incorperated until 1888, which suggests a pretty late date too.

Plus, it's the most obvious answer. It looks like oranges, the guy's gotten a shipment of oranges, if those aren't them then where the heck are the oranges?

SOLVED: Indian River Grapefruit (Note: Indian River is in Florida).

http://www.ancestry.com/cs/Satellite?c=Learning_C&childpagename=USLearningCenter%2FLearning_C%2FPageDefault&pagename=LearningWrapper&cid=1265125303864

Same market... same stacking...with a few wrapped ones in front.. look at the sign..."Indian River..." linked photo approx 1929... but it aligns with your photo.


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The dresses were likely sap green, navy, deep navy, black, midnight black, deep burgundy, all shades of grey...washed in those iron pots with lye soap with a fire to heat the water, ironed with the steel iron warmed on the fire. I would bet the lighter one is sap green or grey with black collar and cuffs.

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The first recorded introduction of pineapple into Florida was in 1860. Commercial production of pineapples began in earnest in Florida in the late 19th century. In fact, for a short time, Florida was among the world's most prolific producer's of pineapple. However, by the 1930s, pineapple production in Florida began to fall off, largely due to changes in climate and increased competition from central America and Hawaii.

Definitely closer to the turn of the century - would have had big hoop skirts in the 1850s through at least the 1860s.

The fruit as nubbies (technical term there...) on the ends that definitely look like navel oranges to me. Right next to them on the right I see a pile of lemons.

the white ones are wrapped in tissue paper. maybe it adds friction to keep the tower from falling? the place was opened in 1782, so maybe it was some kind of anniversary picture.

the shot in the 1920's are an orange color, i can see it in the shading.

ok, so i will label this later as 1890 with a reference of 1850. make the pile green. i'll usually make one person purple because the victorians do like brighter colors and i like purple so each one will have one purple person in it. i'll mess around with it today. thanks

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

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Mike,

I'd go with just "Edwardian Period" which was from 1900 to about 1910. The lady on the right with the big hat, that's from that period and a woman wouldn't wear anything not in style! Men, who cares! Also, there is little or no movement in the image, so the film was probably of that time period too.

As far as the fruit, all green and waiting to ripen,which was the practice then, as it it now with tomatoes,ALL picked green and then sent to stores to ripen. There are grapefruit,oranges and lemons/limes,probably lemons, bananas and some pineapples.

For a better date, research the women's clothing.............

Rich

I would have said they were cannonballs too. Given the varieties of fruit available in that era one would have to say oranges and then there's the box underneath that says oranges on it from California. I'd think in that era railroad transport was good enough that perishable foods could be moved to markets when they were ripe and oranges will last a long time when they are ripe. Beef was being shipped in refrigerated boxcars by train in the late 1800's from Chicago to eastern markets. There's a very strong contrast of course between the shadows and highlights in that photo, if they'd only processed it with hdr we might have a better idea of what they are.

it still tough with clothes. guys don't change at all except for the hat. modern ladies stay with the period, but just like today, those that aren't into fashion, tend to stick with what they were wearing from decades before. so like the old lady in the center has a rather old dress going to her neck, the other has a jacket and is probably younger. and then there is a younger lady with that huge hat like thing on, which is more modern. but i'll stick with the 1890-1900 period.

get your cannon balls, get them while they are still warm.... yum.

i find there is a remarkable amount of data in these images. this one is 8bit, scanned as a photo it looks like. so the whites aren't that strong, but i have detail to work with.


like in this one, i thought the windows were a lost cause. then i pushed the heck out of the whites and low and behold, there was an entire city outside those windows. blending the two was a pain though. shadows have more issues, but that's the same with today's cameras as well.

funny thing is, the older the camera, the better the quality. a combo of giant negatives and a tripod, with people that took their time with the shot. stuff from the 1900's are way better than the images from the 1940-50 era. as it became easier to shoot, the worse the quality. kind of the way cell phones are making images look even worse.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

I wouldn't try and date the photo by the clothing, back then people probably wore the same things for years. Search for Redland oranges CA and you might be able to narrow down the date range.

There are grapes in that photo. I would think they would be from California and they spoil pretty fast without refrigeration so I can't imagine why the oranges would be picked when they're green, they must have had pretty good transport of produce then. We get these 'blood oranges' here that are quite dark but they're a relatively recent product.

Mike, here's another photo from the Lexington Market:

http://www.ancestry.com/cs/Satellite?c=Learning_C&childpagename=USLearningCenter%2FLearning_C%2FPageDefault&pagename=LearningWrapper&cid=1265125303864

The caption and the handmade sign say they are Indian River grapefruit but also further back there are oranges, both fruits looking very dark. I think it's just the black and white photography that is graying out the mid tone oranges and yellows.

i decided to split the difference, mostly green with a bit of orange. though i could easily make them orange, i know that in my heart, those looked more like cannon balls then fruit.

i just have the building left to fill in. trying to decide if that bull should be red, or brown. right now i'm thinking brown with a blue background. i don't know if that's some kind of old symbol, or they simply sold meat in that building.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Yes I read that there was gigantic meat and fish market there.