Photos And Paintings Should Not Be Judged In The Same Catagories

I can take a guess as to why, but care to share your thoughts on why?

I understand the contests here are more in fun and the voting is based on aesthetics........so I think that is why they may lump them together.

every contest has their own rules and it shouldn't matter in the end. good photos are just as hard and demanding as a painting. you may not believe it, but its true. in the end it doesn't matter, there is no prize, your doing it for exposure only.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Easy solution. You enter the contests and groups you want to enter and we'll do the same. Another option is for you to create and run a contest or group yourself.

Most FAA contests are not about the creation process -- they're about the image. tjtwii

Taking a photo and painting a painting do NOT require the same degree of effort. As an example: take a look at that WIP of mine that I posted here recently that features a black panther. It took me hours to create that panther, and it's not even done. But I could go down to my local zoo, which has a black panther, and take a picture of it, and voila, all done. All the form and features and mass and structure and texture and highlights are already there. Wow, that was easy!

Now there are good photographs and bad photographs - I won't deny that a good photographer needs a solid skill set to take the best photo possible of any given subject. But what he's taking a picture of *already exists* - he doesn't have to create it out of thin air. Photographers capture images; artists create them. The two are not just as "hard and demanding". That's why the public considers paintings "art" and photographs, not so much. Just saying. You're a very good and successful photographer, Mike, and you enhance some of them in very effective ways. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful to anybody, but creating a photograph and creating a painting is not the same thing in my view.

Grabbing some popcorn!

I'm not trying to start a fight here. At all. Just stated my opinion. And now I'm exiting this thread.

Going to back away slowly from this, as my photographs take countless hours of planning, researching/learning, editing, coordinating, not to mention hours of shooting. I both paint and photograph and both disciplines take very unique and studied skills. My philosophy: respect each other and their art, and don't be the average viwer, under valuing a craft (we all know how that feels!) when you are not the one creating it, and you are not with the artist from conception to final touch, no matter what their discipline may be.

it really is, finding the right spot, in the right location, with the right weather, etc, and knowing how to process it.. that's hard. harder than it seems. while painting takes longer, you can create it from nothing. photographers have to find it.

for some people they may spend hours waiting for the panther to come as well.

taking a picture that already exists - you have to find that location. its there, but hidden in plain site unless you have the skills to bring it out. its really easy to say - oh well that was really easy to do because he had a camera. when in fact that may be day 9 of a 15 day trip, across the world, just to get it right. it wasn't just there. as a painter you can create that any way you want. the level is the same, the tools are different.

like when i do digital art, i'm stuck with the views i have unless i can find another object to shoot at the angle i want. you can paint it at an angle. the list goes on. i know how hard painting can be, but in the end, its the results that makes all the difference.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

and i'm not fighting... but to point out the irony - the painting usually comes from a photo anyway.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

It's up to the contest host to specify. Some contests are run with no criteria as to medium, so then it's a free-for-all. But yes, photographs are not paintings, and paintings are not photographs -- but both are art. I don't think she was trying to start an argument here.

This is just one of the reasons I choose our group to host a juried contest. I invite, 1 photographer, 1 traditional and 1 digital artist. From their expertise of medium, they choose 2 top candidates, in the end there are 6 winners, no matter what. I don't know another work around, except create the same contest for different mediums, in which I have seen done, and I believe works out well.

There are exceptions, of course, but taking a photo is a LOT easier and faster than painting a painting. That's common knowledge, and that knowledge is reflected in the vast price discrepancy between the two, and the billions (yes, billions) of photos on the net.

I always enjoy when someone says how hard it is. Hey, some people can make falling off a log seem really hard. They make themselves out to be falling-off-a-log specialists. But most just fall off the log, collect their $50 and quickly move to the next log. Because it's easy.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Not necessarily true, Dan, depending on how you achieve that photo and what you do with it. It may involve travel, equipment, many adjustments, then post-processing and editing, not to mention waiting for that right moment, or looking for the right opp, then turning it into art. Let's stop making blanket statements as though painting and photography are even comparable. They are apples and oranges!

The finished piece is either art or crap. Doesn't matter what the medium is.

Patricia, my 1st words... "There are exceptions, of course"


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

The one that is harder to do is the one that you are less skilled in.

Lol. I am going back to my Watercolor paintings & sticking with them - because it is much easier (and satisfying) for me to do after 20 yrs of practice.

I do not think the variety of medias should be judged together ( or against each other) , but that is up to the Contest holder & entrants to decide if it is acceptable to them.

I enter.

in theory, a camera is faster. once everything is set up, click and edit. but... it really isn't that fast, it won't take months in comparison, but some people paint faster than others, and it shouldn't be counted. being there at the right time is step one. step two is owning the camera and knowing how to use it. step 3 is editing the image, which takes time and skill as well. problem is, people see the results and don't know what went into making an image.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

"in theory, a camera is faster"

If it were a theory, there would be just as many paintings uploaded to the net each day as photos. But there is not. There would be more paintings on FAA than photos. But there is not. In the high-end art market, photos would be worth as much as paintings. But they are not.

The sheer numbers of good photos show us it's pretty easy to get good photos. But good paintings are still as rare as they've always been.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

If that is your feeling, Gay, then just enter contests that say "paintings only". No other way around it. Every contest has its own rules and there is little interest around here to change anything about the contests or the way they are run. Basically they're for fun and exposure. I don't take them seriously. I do like it when I get a feature in a group I'm part of, but the contests...I just think of them as a little diversion on here.

I'll just add that good 'ole Bob Ross whipped out a painting faster than I can go somewhere and scout for good photo compositions, come back home and process the file. Really though, the time involved in each of these different artforms is irrelevant. What difference does it make? It all still falls under ART.

As to the OP, some of the contests state 'original paintings only', 'photography no digital manipulations', etc. The creator of each contest has the right to stipulate the rules for THEIR contest. Don't join the ones that you don't like the rules. Easy Peasy ;o)

Hi Gay! When I host a contest, I always specify 'paintings only' or 'photography only' or 'any genre/style welcome', the latter only if it's a smaller, very specific type of contest. Kind of cool to see the variety. That being said, there are always those in EVERY contest I host who enter anything they want, oblivious to my rules or description. Big yawn. If a host is actually tending their contests, those entries will get weeded out, but if not, you might well see a photograph winning a 'paintings only' contest! It's really up to the members to pay attention to the contest rules [please!], as well as the host.

Being a visual artist,a s well as photographer, I speak from both sides of the experience re what it takes. But, I don't mind when photos & paintings are included in the same contest. Just a personal thing. Both take time, talent & creativity.


Now, Sydne, this 'expertise' you speak of, are you applying the term to a handful of members who might simply do one or more kinds of art or photography? That in itself does not make them 'experts'. Perhaps, many of those entering the contest are MORE qualified [as experts] than the 'chosen few' on the panel. So, why would we want a panel whose work we may not think is the best deciding whose is? Just one problem with juried contests. Each of the 3 contest options FAA offers it members, to host or enter, btw, has flaws. Can't be helped.

FAA contest juries are made up of other members, like you & me, who are voting for images they prefer, whether we may think they are the best or not. Because it only allows a few 'hand-picked' members to choose, some super-talented souls get no say re the outcome. That's why I always allow ALL participants to have a voice in my contests. Fairer!

As an award-winning painter & photographer, of 35+ years, I would never want to consider myself judge & jury re others' work. I have my opinions re, but to each their own.

All good points, but I still agree with my original statement. When I compose a painting, I put thought into all the composition rules. I do use my own photos to create a painting, but do not copy the photo. I take time to shoot photos of subjects that I want to paint, and then create the painting adding and changing whatever I think will make the image a better composed painting. So does that take more time because I am taking a photo and also creating a painting, yes, but I am not saying that one is better than the other.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I also always specify traditional art only. Any contest that I personally have ever entered where both photographs and paintings are allowed, the photographs win and the paintings are seldom voted for. It is a good idea to keep them separate because they are all together different but both beautiful. I respect both traditional artists and photographers but still think that they are totally different ballgames. (both art)

Well I could say I do the same thing when I create a photo. It takes time to set up scout the location, wait for the right light, etc. then as you are about to paint from your photo, I begin the edit process. Some photos I may work on for a few days, changing things here and there, adjusting lighting, textures...etc. The others may take a couple hours. Very few of my images take less than that.

Gay, I too take photos for reference in my paintings although I rarely paint them exact. I usually make up backgrounds etc... Each painting takes an average of 5 to 10 days to complete and I work at home painting full time. Not to mention the cost of canvas, paints, solvents,mediums, brushes and varnish. So I hear ya!

We have this same debate in our art guild, which has photographers and artists in a number of other media.

I finally realized a simple truth: every medium has advantages and disadvantages. There is no reason I have to work in paint. Nobody grabbed the camera out of my hands, and forced me to use paint or pencil to make images in a medium that does not suit me. Nobody forced me to post my painted images on a pod site where there are thundering herds of photographers competing with me. The medium each of us chooses to work in is a personal choice. You could log off the computer right now, pick up your camera, and... voila, no more playing field issues...

Make peace with the personal choices you make RE: how you do art, the limitations as well as the benefits... and making peace with whatever the rest of the art world does will follow.

Looking through some of the recent contests, it looks like a good many of them are either/or. As s photog, it doesn't bother me either way. As a contest admin, it would be silly of me to do a paintings only contest

Looking through some of the recent contests, it looks like a good many of them are either/or. As s photog, it doesn't bother me either way. As a contest admin, it would be silly of me to do a paintings only contest

@Brooks, I disagree, it has worked out well. If people do not like the work of the jurors, they know way ahead of time who they are, and they do not have to submit. Simple as that. If you look at juried shows, the artists and photographers know who the jury is, if they do not care for the jurors, they do not submit. Same thing.

I would have to agree, all 3 ways to do a contest has their flaws. However I think it is a good thing we do have three choices don't you?

Well, we agree...and disagree, Sydne! Lol. But, yes, like I said, it's always a good thing to have options.

Oh boy, after we finally all agree on which is easier or harder, can we then discuss what came first, the chicken or that egg. How about Creationism vs. Evolution? Can that be next? lol

I wonder how many times this has been argued? 2 million time? 6 billion times? 795 gazillion times? We really don't know. But what we do know is, not one person has ever changed their mind from where they were going into the argument after all of those 795 gazillion arguments were waged! lol

In a nutshell it's all hard, no matter the medium.

More times than we can possible say, Floyd. Lol. Agree, disagree, makes the FAA world go 'round and might even provide a little well-humored discussion-debate in the process. Sometimes, not so much. But, keep smiling!

Nuff said.....:)