Beauty Is Not A Good Investment....

True. If the only thing someone is bringing to the table is fading beauty, the eventual trade is inevitable.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Good one. Made me think of the quote : " Never marry for money, you can borrow it cheaper ".

People have been marrying for money (security & social status ) since the beginning of time .
I guess the " Gold diggers " just think that they can buy a new face as time goes by.

There really isn't anything wrong with wanting a certain lifestyle, but if you are not willing to help provide for it - you have to happily accept that you are a commodity.

not all investments are made for the long term...for some investments, one just wants to get in and get out ;)

Per Wikipedia: James Dimon-- On December 31, 2005, he was named chief executive officer of JPMorgan Chase and one year later, on December 31, 2006, he was named chairman of the board. In March 2008 he was a board member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and CEO of JPMorgan. He has a BA from Tufts University and an MBA from Harvard. In 1983, he married Judith Kent, whom he met at Harvard Business School. They have three daughters: Julia, Laura, and Kara Leigh. Salary: US$20 million (2013, 2014).

Both the Ms. Pretty post and the reply are laden with bad English!! Sorry, but no way did James Dimon write the reply in your OP!

The philosophy of the reported 'CEO' is sound. However, the poorly composed letter makes me believe this is a modern-day urban legend. At the very least, it's unlikely to have been written by the CEO of JPMorgan.

Just a hunch. ;-)

I find old people incredibly beautiful And when men say they will 'trade' for fading beauty perceived, to me that is incredibly sad, after all, they grow older also

Why can't people just use the bloody internet to search for this type of thing. I get this sort of cr_p daily from Facebook etc...

Here's this one:

http://www.snopes.com/love/dating/golddigger.asp

I guess you are right Sarah and Wendy. I done some Google search too, and I don't think James Dimon wrote the reply.

I just find the story interesting, how some people think...

Marianna

It is a good post even if not true

Yes Abbie, I feel the same way.

This person, fictitious though she may be, is looking for money..first with the husband, then without him, when she gets her settlement from the divorce. Repat as often as needed.
Some very clever women have made this plan their life's work....and have done very well, judging by their bank accounts.

There are a lot of really dumb older guys with money who would take her up in a heartbeat.
In the end, it won't matter if she was a knock out at 25.

True or not true, still a good story. Might have to do with art as the concept of what is beautiful or not changes with time. The hideous daubs of the Impressionist are now loved by millions for example. Fashions change rapidly and the cool in look of today will be the major dork look of tomorrow and of course reversed as well!

Sarah and Wendy are so right! Smart ladies! A good bet for a wife! lol

Hideous daubs? HIDEOUS DAUBS???

Lol! how dare you young Sir! Impressionism is amazingly clever. Best form of art ever I just wish I had a clue how to do it! lol

My wife is the most gorgeous woman I have ever laid eyes on.....was true the second I saw her.....and it'll be true the last time I look upon her.

What can I say I am a lucky man.

Lady, old enough to know better! Used the term "Hideous Daubs" as a way of illustrating the reception the impressionist first received in the art world!

Ah, okay :) Very glad to hear it lol

Thomas, that is lovely!

"not all investments are made for the long term...for some investments, one just wants to get in and get out?

Would that be "date trading" vs day trading?

"Never buy what you can rent."

Floyd, Lawrence may have been referencing something similar to what John Lennon referred to on the "Two Virgins" album with Yoko Ono - "The old in-out, in-out."

Though probably not real, it's plausible. Many people are very shallow.

There used to be a US national radio talk show host named Bruce Williams. It was the only talk show I ever enjoyed. It was a practical advice show, things like "my neighbor's tree fell on my garage and he won't pay for it. what should I do?", that sort of thing.

One night a woman calls and says that her executive husband lost his job, but not too long after he got another job. To give this some perspective, this occurred in the mid-80s. The problem for her was that they had to give up their $500k home for a $300k home and she just didn't think she could handle that. Bruce, being wealthy himself, never talked down to people. In fact even when someone was clearly stupid, he treated them with respect and honor. But in this instance I thought he was going to reach through the phone and smack her. He ended up hanging up on her. It was hilarious.

True or not ...a very funny read.

An aside for Chuck, if someone's tree crushes your garage, you're screwed. Insurance guidelines maintain that trees are not owned. You'd have to file your own homeowners' claim regardless of which side of the property line the tree was on. The only exception would be if the tree was known to be diseased, and the neighbor knew it, yet did nothing.

Wow Chuck, what a small woman!

The fictitious reply assumes that the beautiful woman did NOT have an investment plan of her own.

Maybe she was a day trader or a short-term trader, who relies on her short term asset to get as much out of the deal as possible.

Find an old dude who has the same sort of tunnel vision about beauty as she pretends to have about money, ... hook him into a marriage, .... fabricate a fabulous prenuptial agreement about finances, ... weather the storm, ... cash in when he kicks it, and move on to the next short term deal.

Beauty is a good SHORT term investment, but a bad LONG term investment, ... also riskier. A savvy gold digger knows this.

Interesting replies, thank you for sharing.

Maybe the story is fabricated, but definitely based on some people's real life...

Sounds like Ms Pretty might make a nice,...first wife,..... for a wealthy collector.....might as well be fictitious.

If we must talk about women as investment assets (let's make this people... men have been known to marry for money, also), what kind of person is a good investment? Obviously, one whose assets appreciate in value.

Quote from JPM letter: "However, there's a deadly problem here, your beauty will fade, but my money will not be gone without any good reason. The fact is, my income might increase from year to year, but you can't be prettier year after year."

The problem with people who marry for money, is they tend to be the kind of people who want the money so they can spend it. With abandon. Parties and clothes and cars and airplanes and vacations in the sun, and wine and expensive friends and expensive drugs... and... pretty soon the deep end of the pool can get very deep... a lot deeper than your pockets.

Maybe part of the problem is... if the whole point of someone marrying you is so s/he can spend your money... once s/he has gleefully expended all your assets, then guess what? You're no longer rich. Why should s/he keep you around?

When the pretty face and the easy money are gone... who do you want in your life?

Whether it's a true tale or not, I thought the CEO's response was great :D

A 25 year old GIRL with with a pretty face and "perky" body only interested in a man for his money.........and that man is suppose to be intrigued by someone who is blantantly making it clear that he is only as valuable and important to her as his yearly salary. This chick is basically catergorizing all wealthy men as shallow dimwits easily persuaded by a girl with a pretty face (those are a dime a dozen especially for rich dudes ) . An experienced confidant WOMAN who knows her way around the bedroom has a mind, carries her self well and shows loyalty, grace and appreciatation for him and his hard work rather than a pretty little girl on his arm constantly looking for the next best thing is something money can't buy............sexiness in it's entirety is not based on looks it's a packaged deal and this GIRL will someday become a woman and realize how extremely misguided her way of thinking is........or she will end up the "average looking" (as she put it) wife of a rich dude in a cold sexless marriage. Her lack of maturity alone would be a mood killer ......*cringes*

Just my two cents....but I'm not a rich dude nor am in the market for a pretty face so what do I know!

Melissa agreed!

I've had the misfortune of meeting women like Ms. Pretty in a few different countries.

Chuck mentioned a radio host and it got me thinking of Tom Leykis. I'm not sure if any of you ever sat through one of his misogynistic rants, but he often proudly proclaims how "a man's stock rises with age, while a woman's stock drops." The guy is just an entertainer and an ***. Unfortunately I know some people who listen to his show and take his advice seriously. They in turn have zero trust in pretty women and will only partake in flings.

Leykis obviously gets his inspiration from real people like Ms. Pretty. The "CEO's" reply was stated much more tastefully and in more appropriate context. His reply was spot-on.

Floyd/Murray... :))

The flip side of the coin is : aren't we all too familiar with the clichéd aging man who pays well for arm candy ?

Remember the movie " It's complicated " ? Hilarious. & I am guessing not that far off base.

I've had the misfortune of meeting women like Ms. Pretty in a few different countries.

Hey, I dated one years and years ago. Also, I had a friend who made around $250,000 a year admit that his wife had decided to leave him because he did not make enough money. And talk about attractive, ... this GUY was a god - fit, champion athletic type, the nicest guy you would ever want to meet, ... AND $250,000 per year income. Talk about your gold diggers!

Ah, the difference between what men find attractive and what women find attractive is also in play here.

To over generalize, men like visual beauty whereas women focus more on personality traits. The obvious ones that come to mind are sense of humor, self confidence, intelligence and I have found the ability and willingness to protect also falls in there. One of the reasons men are deemed to age better than women is these "assets" don't diminish over time where physical beauty often does. Again in broad generalities, women are less shallow then men.

Obviously this sweeping generality does not hold true when looking at any particular individual. Personally, physical attraction is way down my list as to what I find attractive in women but it IS still an integral part. If there is NO physical attraction then it will not now nor ever work for me. Conversely I had a buddy that was a male model as well as being an Air Force Pilot. While not necessarily a long term investment I was always amazed at how women literally threw themselves at him when we were out in a bar. Obviously not ALL women but enough to where it was obvious there were a lot of them out there. (The squadron wives' called him the peacock though.)

Anyway, relationships founded on beauty alone will generally not last a indefinitely.

During the financial meltdown 2008, one Wall Street trader was quoted as saying (paraphrasing only a bit) "I had $20 million, now I have $8 million.
I am scare to tell my wife this news. She will probably divorce me.".

The oldest profession.....which one was it....politics or prostitution?

I dont know because I am young and beautiful still. LOL

This thread has been a lot of fun.

Dave

Here' another thought:

If all Ms. Pretty really wants is money... she is easy to manipulate. All anyone has to do to get her to do whatever they want (there's a broad range of possibilities... ) is dangle some cash in front of her face.

Why would anyone want to be married to someone who can be that easily manipulated?

It's a little hard to respect or trust people who are easily bought.

Every woman should have a purse of her own.” Susan B. Anthony

Again in broad generalities, women are less shallow then men.

I must disagree fiercely.

There are shallow men, and there are shallow women. Shallow men are shallowly focused on sex. Shallow women are shallowly focused on financial well being.

I bet there are just as many shallow women as there are shallow men. There should be a dating site to bring them all together. Oh wait, isn't that the stock market? No, ... strip clubs.
No, ...

Oh well, I am out of theories.

First of all, this statement came from a person who is not wealthy in my mind.
It is a fiction. You just don't know unless you are wealthy.
Average people have an inaccurate view about wealthy people so often.
They are usually very modest, frugal, down the earth. If you see them on the street, you don't even know they are wealthy, quite the opposite of what you think. Do not judge a book by its cover. Often woman or man goes with this stereotypical idea gets burned badly. Don’t forget what you see is not what you always get. Life is pretty much fair in that sense. Gold diggers so often wind up with something regretful.

.

Hyoye,
Completely agree.

I have been around quite a few modestly wealthy people, and modesty is no more common in them than in non-wealthy people.

Asses and saints exist in all tiers of financial well being. I have met both types personally. I am not wealthy, by the way. I just worked in areas in my "day jobs" where I dealt with such people.

Hyoye made some valid points. I have been around people with money or as it is referred to as "old money". They are the most frugal down-to-earth people. By appearance, you would never know.

Been around people who marry into wealth, and think several are most pretentious. It is nauseating.

If some old goat, and there have been many, want an arm ornament, then he gets what he deserves.

I would never marry for money. It would be a lack of self respect. JC is spot on. While looks would lure me in, it would be a man's traits that would make him appealing.

One thing I instilled in my daughter was to get an education and find a job where she could support herself and her two kids if ever need be. It is better to be beautiful and smart.

On the other hand, studies have shown that attractive people (male or female) are MUCH more likely to be selected for better jobs, and get better jobs then less attractive people.
Likewise, neatness DOES make a positive impression.
So there are some variables in play that do correlate beauty and genuine success.
Tough luck for me, I suppose. Under my beard, I have a weak chin, and a substantial underbite, which was a real handicap playing Cornet and French Horn when I was a kid.

If I was married I would want a healthy spouse. Beauty is one indicator particular if you are younger.

That is not shallow. It may not please everyone, but that is dishonest. Not everyone needs to be pleased.

Dave

Greg, what you describe is called "the halo effect." It's responsible for better looking people rising higher in corporate America. It's especially true for pharmaceutical sales reps, who are mostly all "lookers."

*high Fives Janice* Found myself knodding in agreement with everything you said !

Oh and Janine I love that movie .......but it is SO cliche!

Murray throw in most lawyers as well.

Many lawyers who dont look so good to begin with graduate law school and cant find a job.

Dave

I dunno Dave. I've met quite a few geeky and/or dorky attorneys; successful ones, too. Also, some downright uglies.

My girlfriend was 10 years older than me when I met her (and she still is 10 years older than me).

I have always been more attracted to older women.

Personality and common interest are important. People don't have happy relationships because of the way they LOOK!

Murray are they working for themselves? Or in a major law firm where the first year associates start out at close $100k per year? (turns out I am outdated)

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2F_Lawyer/Salary

The average pay for an Attorney / Lawyer is $76,789 per year. Experience has a moderate effect on salary for this job. People in this job generally don't have more than 20 years' experience. Skills that are associated with high pay for this job are Intellectual Property (IP), Regulatory Compliance, Complex Litigation Case Management, Leadership, and Contract Negotiation.


Murray, I met on a flight to Ireland years ago one lawyer out of NYC who was homely. He was a forth year assoc. He was beyond brilliant. He had top credentials all the way through. He is the exception. They all have top schools etc....I have no clue if he knew someone who knew someone who mattered to his firm. Might have, might not have. He was brilliant either way.

Dave

http://www.nalp.org/associate_salaries_2014

Top Salaries for First-Year Associates Remain Flat at $160,000, But Prevalence Shrinks as Large Law Firm Market Becomes Less Homogenous

October 9, 2014

Download a PDF of this press release
The results of NALP’s 2014 Associate Salary Survey reveal, among other things, the changing landscape of the largest law firms in the U.S. Although first-year associate salaries of $160,000 are still common at large firms of more than 700 lawyers — especially in large markets — the prevalence of $160,000 salaries at these firms as a whole is far below what it was just five years ago, accounting for just over one-quarter of the salaries reported by firms of this size. In 2014, first-year associate salaries of $160,000 accounted for 27% of the salaries reported by firms of that size. By contrast, in 2009 nearly two-thirds of first-year salaries were reported as $160,000, confirming the characterization of 2009 as the high point for large firm salaries. The data suggest that the reason for the shift, however, is not that individual law firm offices are paying first-year associates less than they have in the past. Instead, as more law firms have grown through acquisition and merger, the largest law firms are not as similar to one another as they used to be. In addition to elite global firms, there are many firms with more than 700 lawyers that are made up of many smaller regional offices, none of which pay the benchmark first-year salary of $160,000, and, as a result, a larger percentage of large law firm starting salaries fall below that mark.

With few exceptions, the $160,000 salary also stands as the high salary paid to first-year associates, as it has since 2007 when some firms first raised salaries from $145,000. The national median first-year associate salary at the largest firms was $135,000 in 2014, the lowest since 2006. Since 2008, however, $160,000 has stood as the single most commonly reported salary, with $145,000 generally a distant second.

Good Story, whether or not its true.

I know because My son works at a Law firm in Manhattan, very successful patent law firm. Lawyers make way more than $76K.
This is why my son is thinking about going to Law school

Dave, I do think that there are too many lawyers, and $76K should be doubled in NYC due to cost of living

I'm thinking as Artists we value a different sense of aesthetics.

No one could be held at fault for appreciation of great architecture or to experience the enjoyment of culture - but we all seem to have a tactile sense of beauty.

Photographers are well adept to the rough & rugged landscape to capture that shot. & Painters & Sculptors are often immersed in their choice of gooey materials.
Our sense of satisfaction comes from accomplishment of expression.

" Old Money " - refined, a bit understated. Well aged, but enduring and excellent quality.
" Nouveau Riche" - plasters every flashy designer name on their exterior like a neon billboard.

The rest of us ? Just happy for wheels to take us on a new adventure , & to get our hands on new lenses or Art supplies ; )

EDIT - clearly generalizing - & meant in humor.

If you marry for anything other than a 'family' you are going to lose. Marry because she is pretty, he is handsome - it all fades. No reason to marry ugly - it won't get better either. Being conscious of the future - your children - or even your living standards - think about the genetics each brings to the 'party'. and marrying for love - it works - if you haven't been thinking that lust is the same thing. Being married is work - perhaps the hardest work two humans have ever endeavored - success isn't easy, and if you haven't thought about it before you sign the papers - it won't last.

I would suppose that there are numerous reasons to form a marriage. It is conceivable to marry for different reasons at different times, divorce, and remarry again for yet more different reasons. It, thus, is possible to have numerous successful marriages in one lifetime, where each marriage is its own success in its own time.

Say an attractive woman marries for money the first time. She grows older; the beauty-loving, rich hubbie leaves her to marry the next trophy gold digger. Okay, this was successful in its time, but it's time to move on. The now divorced, older former trophy finds a nice guy to marry, because she wants companionship and children. She meets a nice guy, fulfills her mission there. The child grows up, leaves home, starts life independently. The couple divorces, because THIS success has come to a conclusion. They both go their ways, find new spouses for renewed, non-child-bearing-family-raising reasons, and a new era of marital success is again underway.

... three successful marriages by the same person.

Robert, divorcing for whatever reason wouldn't be my idea of a successful marriage. If a couple divorces, the marriage failed.

If either was a widow or widower and remarried, then that, IMO, could lead to other successful unions.

You are equating marriage with a business venture. In the olden days, there were arranged marriages. I suppose marriage is a business to some people, but to most, I doubt this to be the case.

I would like to think most people marry for love, not money. For those arranged, one would hope that love, respect and friendship would follow.

David,
There's something wrong with those statistics... it is not consistent with my personal knowledge of lawyer salaries for most lawyers at all.

Maybe it's that they are using only reported salary data of 1st year associates from firms of 700+ lawyers. Smaller firms, and in-house counsel jobs general pay significantly less. Also a lot of new grads -- and experienced lawyers who got cut during the more or less continuous downsizing of the past few years are working legal temp jobs, paralegal jobs, doing contract work, are employed in non-legal jobs, or are not employed at all.

I've seen some articles saying that the percentage of law school grads that actually get hired into law jobs is surprisingly small. All the $0 salaries that the grads who don't get hired at all don't get averaged into the statistic above. One article said the unemployment rate of brand new law grads last year was 80%. That seems high, and I'm not sure how they collected their data, because now I can't find the article... but given all the downsizing in the field over the past few years- which forces experienced lawyers to take jobs that would normally be taken by new grads, plus the relatively few new job postings, I'm not sure the 80% statistic is completely off base.

It's kind of like looking at the statistic for employed actors working for major motion picture studios. They do pretty well, but there are a lot of people graduating from acting school who are waiting tables and looking for their big break.

It is funny Cheryl that you mentioned waiting tables, I know that is so true with some of the Lawyers. I was at a car dealership, one of the sales people told me the guy is a Lawyer but couldn't find a job so he waited tables for a while and he is looking for a job there at a dealership. I had a coworker her daughter got married to a lawyer who is around late 30ish. couldn't deal with financial burdens and had a fair with one of the clients who just inherited a million and dumped his wife and the kids and married to this woman. so tragic.

One the other hand, I trust my son's decision, right after he graduated from college, he got a job at a Law firm, he is like an old man trapped in a young man's body.
He has always been a responsible person. so I support him being a lawyer if that is what he wants to do.

Such a good wisdom from Janice, Cheryl, and the some of the guys above.
Many valid points.

;)

Hyoye Cheryl,

I do far better with stats than law. Yes some lawyers start out making big big bucks.

Many if not most people who pass the bar do not make partner at a major firm.

Many people become lawyers and do not practice as a lawyer. They may use their training
as claims adjusters etc....but not as lawyers.

I think the $76k is high for many lawyers, but for successful lawyers in the major markets it is a months
pay.

Hyoye your son will need mega talent and massive amounts of can do to make it in NYC as a lawyer.
If he does not currently have that YOU CAN NOT count him out at all. He can make it. But the odds
are very tough.

The odds actually are not good for anyone, but some folks make massive amounts of money.

I have one family friend my age a top lawyer in NYC. His specialty in financial matters is worth millions per year.
What has he given up? He just went through his second divorce. He is a year younger than I am and looks ten years older.

Dave

It reminds me of the old story about a rich man who sees a beautiful woman in a bar. He goes up to her and asks her if she would go upstairs with him if he pays her a million dollars.
"Why, I do believe I would," she coos.
"All right, then" the man replies, "how about doing it for 20 bucks?"
She's outraged: "What sort of a girl do you think I am?" she snaps.
"We've already established that. Now it's just a question of haggling over the price," he says.
...
Of course, if it were Ms Pretty at the bar in my story, it would carry on thus:
"If you want to negotiate, how about $2k per night on a rolling 10 year contract with a 50% golden handshake if you don't renew?"

A classic tale, Paul. Love it!

The go-to site for behind the scenes re law firms is: www.abovethelaw.com

Starting salaries: http://abovethelaw.com/?s=starting+salaries

Note: If you read any of the articles, please take into account the date of the article.

I guess the problem with all those well written news stories about starting salaries is that
folks who graduate and then later on pass the bar are lawyers. That does not mean they
are practicing law. So the $76k stat still stands. If you borrowed money to go to law school
and did not make $76k per year you would fully agree with that stat.


Addition: I am a college grad. I never made what most people who graduate college make. I have
a severe auditory processing problem. My income is counted when college grad stats are
made.....somewhere.....

Dave