This Is Art Theft

What do you do with a hippopotamus sized sculpture after you steal it? Granted it might be worth 4.6 million in the legitimate art world, but it's worthless as a stolen item in some thief's basement. Any idea what happened to it?

John, as I recall, it got melted down and sold for scrap. I think the thieves realized just under $3000.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

When The Scream was recovered it was propped up against the wall in a drug house. Just because you've got a plan to do the job doesn't mean you've got a buyer lined up.

"art theft" are the many forgeries of old master's work hanging in museums/auction houses/homes and businesses around the world...many of these works are painted as an individual master would have painted it...if he/she would have ever painted it! These are works that never existed until the forger painted them! Then the paintings eventually sell for millions.

It's called...robbing without a gun...
Now THAT'S non-exciting, lucrative stuff! ;)

Makes me wish someone would just steal my art.

Dave
http://bridburg.com

WW2 Germany and France had it share of art theft! My father was an officer in a Monuments battalion and found that everyone almost was into the "art stealing" business in the 1940's. His job was to inventory confiscated and stolen art and try to prevent re-theft by victorious allied troops.

When I was a museum guard I could have stolen many of the same names of art if I were a thief. I had control of the cameras, the keys, the door locks and all the galleries shared with just one other guard. Funny that all the security guards always discuss these possibilities amongst themselves..

Moore bronzes are hard to sell as they are so abstract and basically ugly but he had hundreds of table top sized little ones including these lesbian contortionists cast in bronze doing their wild thing. Bronzes are real heavy of course.

There are always wealthy art dealers who are without scruples for the thieves to sell to. I'm not sure but can assume that like most hot stuff it's sold for cheap and ends up re-eurfacing within five years at the most.

Vince,

How much hard time would you have gotten?

Dave
http://bridburg.com

The extension of the crimes of course is what the thieves often do to the art. They cut it from the frames losing the edges, store it in places that damage the works, and generally do priceless works irreparable harm.

Not quite the same thing as finding a copy of ones photo for sale in China.

Keeevin, it's not????


oh gosh golly, Dan.....
does this mean that we are experiencing just "unauthorized borrowing"?

As a security agent in the museum everyone is under suspicion at all times. Each curator and also the museum director had to prove their identity to me before I buzzed them in and checked for guns. Come to think of it both David and Kevin look a little suspicious!

Has anyone seen the film; "TheMaiden Heist" a 2009 film starring Christopher Walken as a disgruntled museum guard along with William Macy and Morgan Freeman.
It is a comedy film not less funny than the film "Death At A Funeral" which is my all time favorite comedy second only to "The Gods Must Be Crazy".
Anyway here we have a low income security guard walking around their daily job in utter boredom after so many years of it. I know because being in the museum all day or in my case all night was no picnic. Easy enough job though because in my case I had the gallery all to myself.

Spend most of my time sketching sculpture and paintings by the masters at night between rounds.

It's creepy I tell you like the film "The Shining".

I probably do look suspicious. In 2000 I was in two cities and the museums, one on the east coast one on the west when several Chihuly pieces were stolen. I was also in the vicinity of the theft of barrels of Pappy van Winkle bourbon in Kentucky a couple of years ago. Turns out I didn't do that either.

So what's a van Gogh go for now days on the black market and in the art world ass a legitimate price?

Adam said ass

Lmao!!! On my smart phone.haha!

Adam O:!

"These are works that never existed until the forger painted them! Then the paintings eventually sell for millions."

Lawrence, I love the little detours these discussions take. Is it theft if you paint something that never existed in the style of someone who made that style valuable?

The best book I've read on the subject is "Caveat Emptor: The Secret Life of an American Art Forger," by Ken Perenyi. Highly detailed as to how he did it, how he sold them and how he never got caught.

Yes, very exciting.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Dan said "honest to gosh"

::::putting my backhand on my forehead and suspecting an attack of the vapours*::::::

*The term referring to illnesses known as the vapours (or vapors) is an archaic form for certain mental or physical states,[1] such as hysteria, mania, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, fainting, withdrawal syndrome, mood swings, or PMS, ascribed primarily to women and thought to be caused by internal emanations. This is related to the similar term female hysteria. Vapours were considered to be the female equivalent to melancholy found in men.

The word vapours was used to describe a depressed or hysterical nervous condition.[2] Today, the phrase 'a case of the vapors' is most often used sarcastically or for comic effect.

Speaking of hysteria,
Google
"early treatment for female hysteria"

Well, I do declare...

"Dan said "honest to gosh"

I'm very Salt of the Earth. Everyone says so :-)


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

I'm on a salt-free diet.
Gosh darn

@ Drew, "Oh my." O:

Doctor! Doctor!

Speaking of salt, here's what "Recovering Stolen Art" looks like:

American soldiers discover Manet’s "In the Conservatory" painting hidden in the salt mines of Merker, Germany in 1945.





The original painting is on display today at the Alte Nationalgalerie in Berlin.

When low-rez digital art is infringed, do the owners ask for the art to be returned? NO! Because it was never stolen in the first place.



Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

"Lawrence, I love the little detours these discussions take."

Detours are part of the "excitement" of life ;)

"Is it theft if you paint something that never existed in the style of someone who made that style valuable?"

Yes...if you paint a painting as if Monet painted it...and you do all the chemical processes needed to make it appear authentic in date and provenance ...and then sign Monet's name in his exact signature...you are stealing his "identity" (for lack of better word) and putting it on a canvas to sell as if it was painted by him.

No...if you you paint a painting in Monet's "style" and sign, "Dan Turner". Unfortunately that piece probably won't sell for millions. ;)

Today's identity theft has real victims. But if I paint a never-before-painted painting and sign it "Monet" and it's good enough to fool experts into thinking it was painted by Monet -- where is the victim?

Yes, yes, it's fraud and fraud is illegal -- but where is the victim? Is it the collector who pays $500,000 for it and later sells it for $750,000? Is it all the collectors from that point on who enjoy and profit from the work? Are they victims? Would they want to undo the sale, or is it in their best interests to enjoy and profit from the art?


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

We are all the "victims"...for viewing and believing it is what it was advertised to be ;)
but what about the buyer who pays 500K and doesn't sell it?...or the last buyer who owns it after it has eventually been proven a fake?

Why is fraud illegal if fraud leaves in it's wake, no victims?

Then we're back to Caveat Emptor, "Buyer Beware" -- as the book is so aptly named.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Some thieves are not as discriminating Dan as those you referred to.

Marty

Kevin is beginning to appear even more suspicious!

Tom Keating is a fascinating forger - he claimed in interviews that many of his works wre in museums throughout the world

He was an English ART RESTORER and famous art forger who claimed to have faked more than 2,000 paintings by over 100 different artist.

Most fascinating was his process

"Occasionally, as a restorer, he would come across frames with Christie's catalogue numbers still on them. To help in establishing false provenances for his forgeries, he would call the auction house to ask whose paintings they had contained – and would then paint the pictures according to the same artist's style."

(wikipedia)

You can also find him on youtube :-)

Vincent, you mean you wouldn't buy a used jeep from me? I am hurt. You sly old Iguana you.

Actually Kevin I know how much you love art and how much you love being an artist. Of course I was only teasing!

THIEF!STOP!
By the way everyone I have had more of my original art stolen than I have had sold. I have had thieves just outright steal stone sculptures(small enough to put into a bag) out of a gallery and I have had thieves break in and steal large paintings and in one case a very fine stone carving. Reason may be they think it's worth something and my habit of using isolated spaces for a studio like the west bottoms warehouses in Kansas City and country farm trailers and barns.

I loved my Kansas City studio on the 2nd floor of the Shipley building next to the Kemper arena. It had a freight elevator large enough to put a VW Beetle on it.

Vince Von

It seems to me that art becomes more valuable if has been stolen or a target theft.

Steal mine over here for a song.

bridburg.com

Dave

"Buyer Beware"

Lets just clear all victim complaints and say...
Human Beware ;)
(jking)



James, re:the frames/Christie's catalogue numbers...
thanks, interesting.


Vincent...bummer about all the theft in your gallery!

Art and car thieves of high rank most likely operate on an inventory level. The "Buyers" put an order out for say a '65 Mustang and the thieves plan to snatch one to fill the order. Art "buyers" may be eccentric collectors wanting an original van Gogh and have the funds to finance the skills of high ranking organized crime.

Jewelry heists are on the rise lately since diamonds are not traceable after they are broken up. The big famous diamonds like famous art is a sort of challenge among the theft trade I'll assume.

A craig's list ad saying big diamonds for sale cheap is suspicious. Now Chihuly glass work for sale for only $25,000.00 is suspicious as well.

Original Rembrandt oil portrait for sale; best offer...yea right.....

If you have an establishment that's open to the public, thieves can get in. Fortunately, most people aren't thieves. But for the few who are, most businesses have to invest in security to make it harder for them to steal stuff (glass cases for small objects, etc.), or easier to detect/catch if they do steal stuff (alarms, cameras, etc.).

Major retail stores have an accounting category for missing/broken inventory, and they track the loss rate. If the loss rate gets too high, they take steps to do something about it. Big businesses usually have insurance to cover losses from theft. Very small businesses like art studios, often the artist takes the loss. Often in art galleries, the contract with the artist requires the artist to take the loss if something gets stolen.

If you're getting a significant amount of stuff stolen, you should figure out what level of security is appropriate / you can afford, and take the time to get it installed.

Glass cases, for small stuff can be picked up used, sometimes very cheaply. China cabinets, sometimes with working locks, can be picked up at estate sales. Glass cases are like any other security measure... they don't keep out a determined thief, but they do keep out casual/opportunistic theft.

There are also ways to hang wall art so there's a trick to removing it, a visitor can't easily just lift it off the wall, a staff member has to do that for the customer.