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Daniel Furon

8 Years Ago

About Vote Sollicitation - Again.

I wish we knew by advance which category of contest to be taken over by reservoir dogs fighting for the 1st places with help of their friends (as if it was bringing any sales ha ha),

versus the one contest that might teach us what in our pieces really captures interest, and how to improve it. That's to me the great opportunity of the contests.

I'd ignore the 1st option as an obvious waste of my time - if I knew by advance.

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Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

If it says public voting, that is expected And accepted

 

Richard Reeve

8 Years Ago

People are people and all want attention. Vote solicitation is inevitable and unstoppable and winning a contest is no big deal. If you want a critique of work there are plenty on this board who will assist.

- Richard Reeve
ReevePhotos.com

 

Tom Druin

8 Years Ago

"most all" daniel contest are not about the best image never have been nor will they ever be ,but you can go enjoy looking through images choosing which you feel are the best vote comment like and move on.a vast majority of photographers/artists are unable to see issues with 1.clarity 2.cropping 3.color 4.composition ,so you cannot expect there friends or other artists voting to see or care.

 

Monsieur Danl

8 Years Ago

FAA contests are intended to generate views, I could have 100 family members and friends. If I ask them to vote for me about 50 would. Only because they want to be nice. Not because they like my work. Even if I win, none of them will buy my work. So why dwell on the contests? It;s only a family friend-ly game.

 

Val Arie

8 Years Ago

What everyone else said. Don't let it bother you...

 

Daniel Furon

8 Years Ago

Clear answers - thank you, friends!

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

I am still firmly convinced that the more time you spend messing around with contests, groups, soliciting comments, likes and favorites.... the less art you are going to sell.

Same effort spent advertising and promoting will give much better results.

If you want to mess with those things, then accept them for what they are, a way of breaking the boredom form creating more art, uploading it and promoting it. But certainly don't take any of that stuff too seriously.

Now all that said, there are ways to turn participation in the contests and groups into a marketing tool, but not on FAA. If you are not using the marketing benefits off FAA, they are a waste of time, imho.

 

David King

8 Years Ago

Floyd, that's why I don't spend much time with contests and groups. When marketing time is limited you need to spend it where it will count the most. However I do think they are worth doing, but you should be selective. I look at the contests once/day. I see what new contests my art might fit into but only consider those that allow 5 or less images per participant and avoid those that allow photos, I just think it's hard to get noticed in those. Then I look to see which contest have just started voting and then vote for myself just to make sure I spend at least some time on the leader board to increase the chances my art gets seen. I can usually do all that in less than 10 minutes. I've only joined 9 groups so far, and most of those are very targeted on subject, I figure if a collector is looking at groups they are looking at groups of subjects that interest them. I only look at the groups once/week, and submit one image in each per week if I have something new that fits. Again, that all takes just a few minutes. I waste far more time on this message forum. lol

 

Floyd Snyder

8 Years Ago

I used to do contests, for about the first year I was here. I was in every contest I found that worked for me. I won some and placed in some. But mostly got buried by those that solicited votes. That they did it did not bother me. But I did not want to spend the time to do it.

About a year or maybe a little longer, I stopped all contests and all groups. I did a study of paste sale up until that time and there was zero coloration between what was selling and what contests I had entered and even the ones I won.

I do a lot of FB and one day I got the idea that being featured on the groups was something I could brag about on FB. So I started doing groups again. I still can not say beyond a shadow of a doubt that even hyping the featured images on FB or Twitter are really leading to sales. But it at least give you something to brag about.

I put 5 images that have been featured in groups into an album and then post it to FB with a line that reads; "These images have been featured in one of the prestigious galleries on Fine Art America, home of over 300,000 of the finest artists from around the world." (You can do the same thing with contests but they take a lot more work.)

I will also post them on Twitter.

But as far as any value inside FAA, I am yet to make any connection to sales from just being there in the groups or entering contests. Time is better spent of adding images and advertising outside of FAA.

 

Patricia Strand

8 Years Ago

It makes me a little bit sad, Daniel, but what can you do. I try to vote for you whenever I recognize one of your amazing pieces, but then when I watch your entry fall further down on the leader board and the usual sub-par work rise further up (you'll recognize the same names after a while), it feels frustrating. Solicitation seemed to go away for a while but it's creeping back in again.

 

Daniel Furon

8 Years Ago

Yay thank you Patricia!!! -I deeply appreciate.

 

Maggie Terlecki

8 Years Ago

Aren't there any contests where the contest runner could choose 5-10 jurors selected from FAA members that are definitely good artists and have a good eye that would judge the images instead of the contests being a popularity contest. I would really like to enter those instead of contests where the end result didn't mean much.

Some do not allow solicitation; I entered a contest where no votes were allowed by non-FAA members, but hardly anyone voted. I voted for many images but in the end, the top 2 only had 10 votes each and there were 350+ images in the contest. Many people voted just for themselves and then didn't vote for anyone else.



 

David King

8 Years Ago

I agree that juried contests would be much more meaningful, but the system isn't really set up to promote the creation of meaningful contests. It's all about everybody shouting for attention "Look at me!".

 

Nikolyn McDonald

8 Years Ago

I want to go back to what Abbie said: "If it says public voting, that is expected And accepted"

But the problem lately is that many many "FAA members only" contests are being dominated by friend voting. And often all it takes is 3-4 votes to make the difference between a winner and an also ran. If the contest administrator does not specify explicitly that vote solicitation is not allowed, it is assumed by a some to be allowed (by default).

And I suspect it is some of these contests that have the op frustrated. He is not alone.

 

Friends voting for friends is just as big a problem as members soliciting votes, it's true, Nikolyn. There's no way to keep it from happening. Re vote solicitation, some contests actually encourage participants to do so, as do some FAA groups, and the more the merrier. But, in a contest, all that means is that the 'winner' will be the best solicitor of votes not the one with the best image, most likely.

The vast majority of both members & hosts frown upon the practice, though, and the latter, like me, will try to short circuit the behavior, if possible, by removing the offender[s] after voting has begun. A contest description must contain a 'no vote solicitation' in the rules and 'images not following rules will be removed', if the hosts wants to be able to do anything about it.

It's kinda funny that those who pooh-pooh contests the loudest are also some of the ones who enter them regularly! Contests are something the site offers its members, so if someone doesn't want to take part, being aware of the problems re, then simply don't enter. Most hosts do the best they can, but we are dealing with you, the members, so perhaps you could 'police' yourselves. Btw, juried contests have their own issues, one being a so-called 'impartial' panel. In the end, you're still being 'judged' by your peers [members], some of who are your friends, just fewer of them. So, it's really anyone's game...or is it?

Kudos to the contest hosts who actually tend their contests & rules they create. Remember, hosting is voluntary, which means any member can create a contest, decide which FAA option they want and make a few rules. Better to create your own than rag about those that don't work for you. Soon you will see how much time it takes to tend one...fairly. You will soon also see that, besides voting issues, there are a lot of members who actually do not know how to read, either the rules or contest description. Why else would someone enter a goofy gumball machine image in my 'Mystical Trees' contest and then send a nasty email when I remove it? Go figure. It happens ALL the time. I must remove at least 5 on every new page of entries, as a rule.

Like I said, hosting is voluntary, just like administering an FAA group. We are taking the time to give you, the members, a space to showcase your work. Wouldn't it be nice if, once in a while, members posted a 'thank you' to their favorite host[s].

I always enjoy seeing you & your work in my contests, Daniel. Not a surprise that your images will usually place on the leaderboard in most and toward the top or win in some. No, we can't keep members from voting for each other or their favorite group administrator or monitor everyone who might be asking for votes. We can only do the best we can, considering.

Good luck. Hope you continue to enter. The contests are here mainly for promotion and that other word some dislike 'exposure'. Some members simply enjoy sharing their work & couldn't care less about winning or placing. Some are more competitive and, still, some will do most 'anything' to win. Winning 'what' is the big question?! Lol.

Anyway, Daniel, or anyone, should you want to host one yourself in order to have the experience under your FAA belt, then click on that 'Create New Contest' tab...and let me know what you think at contest's end!

Over & out.

 

Maggie Terlecki

8 Years Ago

@Brooks

I hope I didn't imply that I thought people that were hosting contests were not doing so in good faith or that it was easy to do. I actually do know what it entails to set up contests and check queues for entries that don't work in a theme etc., as I was an admin for over 6 years that hosted 4-5 contests a week, (both photography and Illo) and I moderated forums also - so although not here on FAA, I do have an inkling of the work it takes and I do appreciate it. I actually stopped adminning because between that and doing critiques, I had almost no time to do my own art anymore.

When I said about few people voting is because the system we used was much different from how they are run here. It was karma based and karma went up with good voting and down when people played the system. It was not perfect, but it mostly worked to bring the cream to the top.

I was not upset that I did not win - I was taken aback and how few people voted for others. In the contest I entered, the top-rated winners were all people that I had voted for, so was pleased they had done well, but it was apparent most people didn't vote or only for themselves. At one point, one of the people that finished in 1st (there were 2 1st place winners) was ahead and had 9 votes for several hours and then pouf-- all of a sudden, he had 8. A vote had been cancelled. Not a mistake, surely, as you can cancel your vote immediately, but many hours after the fact. At this point, I had entered another contest and had not voted except for my own yet and then didn't as I felt, it really didn't matter if you did or not, as you couldn't feel the end result was truly fair.

If you say that contests held by FAA jurors also have problems, then that is sad as I am sure many people here would be excellent and impartial jurors. I know I would be. As much as I would like to do well and sell my work, I am not ready to give up my soul for it. I have always been an art enabler and I don't want to lose that. We all need support that is genuine. I've actually been invited to a couple groups that do cross-voting and liking etc., but I refused because I want my comments on other people's work to matter and that the comments I get are also true and not some speed liking/commenting that is meaningless.

So, on my part, it was not a complaint but a wish for things to be better - I do appreciate the members, like yourself, Brooke, that host groups and contests as I believe you are trying to help others get their work out there and seen, so thank you for that.

Maggie


 

Kevin OConnell

8 Years Ago

To be blunt, I don't see them helping a good artist in any way at all. Most that win are solicited votes.

If I was an art buyer and looked at the top images I may not come back to buy anything.

Also if you think about it. someone that is not a good artist can win, which happens a lot. Then they can use that win to post everywhere telling others, look my art is better than all of these because I beat them in an art contest.

I stay away from them

 

Joseph C Hinson

8 Years Ago

You folks are putting way too much thought and time into contests. Who cares who wins? It's another tool to get your work seen,

 

Chuck Friidrix

8 Years Ago

Even so I'm not serious about contests - I'm not even sure if this kind of exposure is of any help promotion wise - I still get disappointed to see how often mediocre stuff gets to the top, vote soliciting or not.

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

I have had two sales recently (yay me) and BOTH of the images I had just entered into contests

I enter and then forget them

 

Joseph C Hinson

8 Years Ago

What you call mediocre may be the best thing ever to someone else. It is a contest after all.

 

Maggie, I didn't even see your comments before I wrote mine, so they weren't directed at you. But, thanks for the kind words. Simply put, FAA contests are one of the perks offered to the members on this site. Most folks enjoy them, whether they win, place or show up on the leaderboard, and knowing the issues surrounding! Nothing's perfect, not even an FAA contest. Lol. Enter...or don't! Wanting to make things better is a good thing. Finding fault at every turn, not so much.

It's funny to me that those who pooh-pooh contests the loudest show up quite regularly in them! Most hosts do the best they can, but we are dealing with you, the members, so, I say, police yourselves! If you think others are soliciting votes, then confront them, etc. Btw, juried contests have their own issues, one being a so-called 'impartial' panel. In the end, you're still being 'judged' by your peers [members!], some of who are your friends, just fewer of them.

The best reason to enter any contest that fits is to show your work and, hopefully, attract an interested party [buyer] who happens to be looking for that particular art-photography theme. For example, I have one currently accepting submissions titled 'Garden Fresh', which showcases art for the kitchen walls.

Like Abbie shared above, and others who have before as well, they have had sales directly related to having their work seen in a contest or contests. So, believe it or not: they do help; they are worthwhile; they can actually be 'fun'; and they do promote your work. Yes, it's true, the best pieces do not always win or even place, but there are SO many that are deserving of a win, how can they all take top honors? Someone with good or great work who doesn't win will be disappointed or think that others are only winning because of solicitation or votes from friends. Fair is not the name of the game, as you will also have friends who will vote for you, too, or because of name recognition. Plus, the images I or someone else find 'most worthy' may not be your cup of tea. So, who's to say.

In the end, there are always plenty of members who take part in the contests. It's not really about WINNING; it's about getting your work seen. But, no matter what, it's not very nice to belittle those who enjoy creating or entering contests, raggedy as they might be. It's just not.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

yep contests are more or less a dumping ground. though many dump random things into the search. many actually think that customers are gullible enough to think that the images in their folder is really an award winning item. they aren't fooled. enter, move on to the next one. if the contest makes little sense, move on to the next one. time to vote, erase that mail and do something more interesting. these people won... who cares, erase mail and do something more interesting.

why do i think contests help sell?

have you ever tried to find anything on the search on this site? its like that. the contest narrows down the field and its not always the top sellers on the top. i think that some of the contest starters, are actually customers in disguise.

both contests and groups add keywords to your images you could have never have added or they would have been spam. google finds these. especially in images. i'm looking for a banana, but i see roosters, because the two images were in the same group. i might have gotten a sale because of that. it does take time to enter things into groups though. it takes me about 20min or so for each image. i call it associative advertising.

contests also allow you to see what a customer may actually want. they want kittens in bottles. do you have any? you might want some because a customer might one. featured in groups is pointless to advertise. get a dozen a day or more. i can't imagine bragging about them. sorry if that insults anyone... well not actually sorry but you know. and neither is a contest win even if you do it honestly.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

The best reason to enter any contest is to show your work and, hopefully, attract an interested party [buyer] who happens to be looking for that particular art-photography theme. For example, I have one currently accepting submissions, titled 'Garden Fresh', which showcases art for the kitchen walls, should anyone out there care.

http://fineartamerica.com/contests/garden-fresh--photography.html?tab=overview

 

P.S. The only reason I can think of to 'brag' about a contest win is if the prize is 'bragging rights'. Lol. As measly as most prizes are, then, I guess you might want to. A little light contest humor.

Btw, Maggie, I have never administrated an FAA group, just hosted bunches of contests. There are not enough hours in the day for me to undertake that task as I already have too much on my plate as it is. However, there are members, like Karen Wiles, who do both, host scads of contests & administrate groups! Don't ask me how she, or others like her, do it, unless it is their full-time job? I'm thankful, however, that she chooses to do so. Thanks, Karen!

Congrats on your sales, btw, Abbie.

 

Mike Savad

8 Years Ago

i wonder if anyone ever went back to the contest forum and applied those bragging rights?

in your face suckers... i won and you didn't nyea nyea.... whoooo i'm number one!

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Too funny, Mike. But, yes, actually, you & I both know that some members take winning VERY seriously and will claim their 'bragging' prize...and brag, tongue-in-cheek, of course. No harm in a little light contest humor. To each their own, I say. Yawn. Back to digging in the garden...and my husband, who seems to need my company there. Guess we're all #1 with someone...or at something, even a lowly contest.

 

Joseph C Hinson

8 Years Ago

For those that think juried contests are the way to go, I just got a mass email from a group admin wanting jurors for a contest. Jurors will be chosen first come first serve. SMH

 

This discussion is closed.