How Do You Price Art?

Kevin, I'm wondering if everyone is comfortable discussing the subject in an "open" discussion. Could we make it private?


Bill Tomsa

http://billtomsa.blogspot.com/

It is a good read for many here who only know from POD printing....

Nice article, Would love to raise my prices to about $20,000 but I think I will wait a bit.

Bill, I don't expect anyone to give trade secrets. The article discusses HOW much art is, or can be priced. Both in fair terms and over priced. As many artists have, I too had some successes and then began to over price my original work. The market quickly corrected me. Any thoughts on one's own experiences?

Ron, which of your $20,000 paintings do you want to trade for my $20,000 work? A purchase receipt and we could each claim sales of 20K art. Er, um, kidding of course.

Your work is priceless Kev!

I am proud to have a Von Frese original hanging in my gun room. Do ya think I could 20K for it?

Seriously, setting prices on originals, in any medium is a tough thing to do. Anyone want to share your journey? Marlene?

uh, Keeeevin, that's called bartering and it's supposed to be reported to the IRS...

Oh yeah, that pesky organization.

My art is put on prints here at FAA. My art works with PD works. My art is originals.

Soon the one offs will be 3D printed and there will be no one offs.

But what if "splat" that went for $25000 is a one off twenty years from now
after anyone who wants a 3D printer has one? What if no one really wants
a 3D copy of "splat"? Then what?

Original is ideas, not canvas sizes.

Dave

I want to get an original work in all the famous artist's homes if I can!

You never know who or which one of us will get up on a collectors list and that's what drives the prices up more than our person idea of value.

Now some other folks on FAA I know started by selling out at $450.00 for original western art so they gradually went up to $500.650.00. Once collectors bought at that price they also got noticed by Wyoming and Montana western art galleries and now those galleries have set their prices at $3400 through $5400.00. Weather these sell or not is out of the hands of this artist.

I should add the ride in price for my prints twenty years from now will be about the same as now.

The ride in price for "splat" that no one wants a 3D copy of will be from $25000 towards zero.

The whole idea of collecting art "WAS" as an investment.

Not all "splat" is an investment...that makes any sense.

Emperors go around naked all the time.

Dave

Dave I don't quite get your meaning? But if your art only exists as digital prints, then they are original to you, but can be reproduced endlessly, which will be taken into account when setting value. Did you read the article? It talks about works that artists are emotionally involved with.

Vincent, you are talking the high end, and how one may find a path there. A journey most of us would embrace, but an unlikely outcome for all but a few. Is it possible that my works that have sold for $2,000 will increase in value, giving my new work more cache? Well, maybe, just not very likely.

I thing if a work I have made is comparable (by my own judgement) to some more popularly know artist than I would have to show a price point of at least half that value.
The whole art community is full of rank and rankers so it is a crap shoot at best really.

like I said, Kevin, those only dealing n the POD market can learn a lot by reading this worthy article ;)

A one off used to matter. It wont going forward.

It will matter less and less that you produced a single copy.

If no one wants to make another copy of the work, it is next to worthless.

Soon the great collections in museums and with very wealthy families
will be copied en mass. Perfect 3D copies. The institutions are about to cash in
on these long held collections. That cashing in or copying of great works for sale
will become the ACTUAL or REAL value of a work of art. Not the sit on the single copy,
that is going out the window.

People will go into galleries in NYC and say to themselves, "hey that splat on a canvas on the wall,
can I make copies as an investment and sell the copies"?

And if the answer is "NO one will want a single copy of that splat", then the reality of that one off
is not worth anything at all. Zero.

Dave

A discounted cash flow will be applied to art values.

Nothing less. If your art wont sell as copies it wont be worth anything.

So you need to bank on your ideas. Nothing less.

Dave

Well Dave, I am not into predicting the future. But if past performance is any indicator, then one off in terms of original art is the primary thing that matters. I refer you to Marlene's comment above. Thinking a thing should be so, does not in fact make it so. When you sell a $25,000 copy let me know. In the mean time, let me know if you read the article.

Looks like someone is trying to declare the "end of painting" how many times has that song been sung?

Vincent, I know how to get paintings into the homes of the rich and famous, it is called breaking and entering.

Kevin,

The process began almost two years ago. A handful of van Goghs at the time for $34,250.

This is the beginning of what will be a tidal wave. That $34k price tag will be coming down for years.

http://hyperallergic.com/80667/van-gogh-museum-3d-prints-its-own-paintings/

The original van Gogh's worth will be measured with a DCF.

Dave

too many, but he hasn't been here long enough to know. Maybe he's just banking on his opinion as being new.
LOL, Ron!

David K,

No one is declaring the end of paint. Not at all. I am declaring a new pricing method. And it will stick.

Dave

Arthur C. Danto, "After The End of Art" published in 1997

Marlene,

Vincent has been here almost as long as you have 10/2009.

The world will change even if we dont keep up.

Dave

I disagree David B. I think as the digital invasion incurs deeper and deeper into our lives a higher value will be placed on the hand made. I believe we are already beginning to see it. At least here in Northern Utah we are seeing an explosion of weekly "farmer's markets" that seem to cater more to arts and crafts than farm produce as well as a new huge annual festival that just started two years ago. Someone bought an original from me a couple weeks ago. When we met for the tradeoff he showed me a photo that he shot himself that he'd like me to make a painting from, I said that it was such a good photo that I don't think a painting could improve on it and he said he didn't care about that, he wants something made by an artist's hand. The original and hand made will always be valued.

I used to be employed by a great art museum in the security department as staunch "Warf"(Star Trek).

In our many security discussions was the true story of an "unknown artist"(like an un-documented species). had installed one of hi small paintings with label and all in one of the museum galleries.

No one noticed the difference for the longest time!

Vincent was this at the Nelson in Kansas City?

David K,

The article on this thread is about high end gallery work and the pricing methods.

Those pricing methods will be thought of as quaint misrepresentations fifteen years from now.

Crafts fairs will go on, we are in agreement. This is not me calling for the end of painting as you
suggested.

Dave

David King...I just read a great article :
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

David B, my opinions are not based on how long I have been on faa.
now THAT is seriously funny!! thanks for the chuckle.

Long time at the Nelson!

I saw the work, there was something about the tag that was different, don't remember what...Black tag white lettering? What happened to the work, any idea?

Ya know Dave, you seem to be starting St Pats a bit early. Ba da boom!

Take a look at the your example. Let's start with the idea one actually has an original Van Gogh. Some ORIGINALS are worth up to $100 Million dollars. Divide your $34K into that number and you will find the ORIGINAL is worth 3,000 time more.

Now for another exercise, let's say one has a nice print here on FAA and one can sell it for say $100.00 but my original sold for $1,000. Which is 10 times the value of a print.

Okay, that was fun, but we are really not talking about POD pricing, but then many here are, as the only way to sell what they make is by printing it out. BTW 3D printers are very new, expensive, and novel. But when I get Staples to deliver on for my office ALL those "prints" will instantly be devalued.

No one found out who the artist was as he covered his tracks but I think the artist should have surfaced as this would make a sensational story on CBS news!

Kevin;

Your bloody heart sculpture is a fav of mine! It is a real Bloody Hognail!

David B, my examples may not have been about high end galleries but I think they are still relevant. Galleries may consolidate and reduce in number but I think they'll continue to exist for quite some time to come and much in the same format they are now.

That's an interesting article Marlene! I would never have expected such a school to exist.

Okay Vincent, you made me laugh. I know it would look good in a museum. Any suggestion?

and look who is sending their kids there!

There may be a museum specializing in rural culture like the "School of The Ozarks" in Hollister. Also called "The Ralph Foster Museum" who would appreciate this work of yours!
I do not know the new director though.

I price my stuff by the emotional charge and by the degree of simplification. Then again, I do sculpture.

Antonin, the article references the pricing of sculpture along with other original works.

Marlene that is a fascinating article, thank you for finding and posting. I think we need to name you Artist Emeritus, or some other such exalted title.

That is hysterical Roger.

Thanks for the compliment Keevin...it balances off the crap flung my way in another thread. lol

Mr. Squeezy, Sir! Funny!!