Why Women Artists?

Funny thing, I saw something similar on my Facebook questioning "women photographers". Only advantage I could see would be perhaps in boudoir photography. Maybe in advertising it would be an advantage.

Well, I think this is a much bigger thing for those rare few who compete on the world stage, to be sure. But I can not for the life of me understand why the Establishment can not lose that language. Any persons art should stand on its own.

Artists are artists.

I remember when I graduated from high school I had to share the "Class Artist" prize with a guy just because they had to have one from each sex…I was pissed.

I wonder what feedback one of us would get if we started a contest or a group for Men Photographers.

Its because of men like in the link. There are many more men where he came from.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/whats-the-biggest-problem-with-women-artists-none-of-them-can-actually-paint-says-georg-baselitz-8484019.html

Women are often devalued as artists by some cultures. Some men think that all women know how to paint is flowers etc..and not really able to compete with their male counterparts.

There was a time when women had to put a male name on the books they write to get respect and sales.

Thank God we are now moving away from all that garbage.

Joseph I think you should do it. I see nothing wrong with it. If women can do it so can men.

Good post, Melissa.

Raises the question, why, in 2015, are people like Baselitz still so sexist?

I doubt he would have dared to say the same thing about any other group of people, if he believed it. But saying it about women, no problem.

Well, he was described in the article as publicity-seeking, so that's one way.

cristolin.com

With all due respect... it seems that we are wading deeper into the problem instead of eliminating it. It is a trend that has been enhanced greatly the past several years and leans very much towards an antagonistic attitude that is far beyond the sexes.

Mutual respect is the answer. Unfortunately, that is not being festered. Instead, wedges are being hammered.

Just my observation. Besides... I like the gentle and generally softer nature of the ladies... and their art. It was created to balance out the chiseled nature of us blockheads. :)

The posted example is a pretty bad fringe case crackpot used to justify the practice, and therefore doesn't make the case. But do whatever you want to do. I'll just have to bemoan the fact that there isn't a group here for Phat Male High Speed Photographers of Male Hummingbirds. Oh, wait. I could fix that if I cared!

Sorry, I am very happy to be known as a female or woman artist. Not sure I really see an issue with it. Just glad for anyone to call me anything with 'artist' in the title actually LOL

I hope you're correct that this is a "bad fringe case crackpot", Gregory, and if you are correct, then yes, this example doesn't make the case. And of course, one example never makes the case for anything.

But it's not clear he's a crackpot or a fringe case, from the article.

- Baselitz, who was lauded by the Royal Academy five years ago as one of the greatest living artists...

- Art critic Martin Gayford has called him a “walking monument of art history, one of the major figures of post-war art, and a point of reference for younger artists”.

- Baselitz is not alone in expressing such views about female artists. In 2008, Brian Sewell went further saying there has “never been a first-rank woman artist”.

- Ivan Lindsay, an art dealer and writer, said: “This is a hugely contentious issue. Some people think women just generally aren’t as good, others believe they have been held back throughout history. Others would probably agree (with Baselitz) but wouldn’t like to stick their head above the parapet.”

I agree with Glenn - mutual respect is the answer. And I agree with Kevin that each person's art should stand on its own. Perhaps where we differ is on how close society at large is to that ideal goal, in art and other realms as well.

One of my favorite all time artist is Germaine Richier, check her out if you get a chance, died 1959.

Lady Isabella, while I respect your desire to be called woman artist, if you were a world class artis and your work was worth considerable less because they labeled you a woman artist. Then you might alter your opinion. Just maybe.

Please call me an artress.

It took me a while to realise it, but regardless of subject matter and medium, men and women do it differently. There are female composers whose creations show this quite clearly. Male composed music tends to use obvious rhythm changes and disharmony to create tension, where women are far more subtle.

It's hard to describe in words the effect of the opposite approaches to an abstract artform, just google female composers to discover it - and it's quite a journey

"Female Artist"
"Alzheimer's Artist"
"Handicapped Artist"
"Ethnic-group-of-your-choice Artist"
"Senior Artist"
"Young Artist"
"Over-50 Artist"
"Undersexed Artist" ... okay, I'm just making stuff up now.

It's all fluff, ... superficial posturing that needlessly accentuates hypersensitivity to one's societal reference point. Too needy for me.

Intriguing thought, Kevin!

Lady Isabella is a woman. And she's an artist. Both are true. Yet labeling her with both accurate descriptors might somehow devalue her work.

I was trying to think of another parallel, but couldn't think of something where specifying the male gender would have a similar devaluing effect. For example, John Doe could be a male, and he could also be a nurse. Referring to him as a male nurse would not devalue his work. ("Man nurse" wouldn't work so well - sounds like he's a nurse just for men, lol).

You've raised a really thoughtful question, here and in original post. I just may have to add a blog post soon : )

cristolin.com

Keep those opinions coming.

On gender-based groups:

If it's sexist to drop the word "man" into a sentence, it's also sexist to drop the word "woman" into the sentence, in the same spot. And vice versa.

I always thought the goal was gender equality, except where there are real biologically based differences. Or you're trying to find someone to date.

Cheryl! Come clean up my keyboard....I just spit out a gulp of water!

Since I teach in an elementary school I am surrounded by women. Often I here that it's good there is a man teacher at the school.......The only thing is I don't teach man. So is a women artist someone who specializes in creating art about women? Sort of like a landscape artist, or a still-life artist.

"Please call me an artress."

I like it! ;)

Lawrence,
Somehow you don't strike me as the "artress" type...!

But they are .. just street artist.. depends on the person reporting.. trying to be formal and not offend I would suppose..It is hard to know whether to specify by gender these days or not. It seems some women prefer,others don't care and others are very strict about being specified..

I am a Romantic Digital FINE Artist.....note the FINE part.....

Are women called woman fine artist?

Or female fine artist?

Does a reporter steal an artist's thunder and label her? Or will we have artists and artesses from now on?
Marlene is forever on to something.

History is not the way forward. The way forward is not for men or women, but for the individual. If you are good
enough for a reporter to ask you a few questions have your label ready to go. Remember
we are fine artists.

Shake your booty.

Dave

Kevin, that is their problem not mine. If I was famous then it really would not matter much and I can always find a way to make things work for me

I seriously do not mind being labelled. People do it to me every single day, here and offline, mostly incorrectly, or racially or some al'ly, so why on earth would I give two monkeys if they label me correctly for once... woman artist. Yes indeed I am and thank you for noticing.

I detest (seriously) that people are calling actresses 'actors' now. A personal ugh

But it is what it is. I have more to worry about in life than names

As long as there are ballerinas and actresses, why worry about a "woman" label?

Well Marlene, I am sure that for the "most" of us it matters little. But for those who can envision attaining the highest peaks in the art world (or sports, or business) it makes a huge difference. I see your picture and assume that is you, so I see a woman, but I don't see a woman artist. I see a successful artist. The most obvious thing in this life is we are who we are. The first thing we see of someone is their ethnicity, gender, height, age, etc. But when those in power can use those same qualities as a wedge, then certain groups can suffer. As Iris correctly points out even Congress can not seem to see the obvious.

I do also realize I am tilting at windmills here. But on the other hand, why not?

I dislike the way information is stripped out when discussing topics because it isn't "politically correct" to include it. As far as I'm concerned it is much better to have all the potentially relevant facts than to deliberately obscure some of them, so if gender has any relevance it should be mentioned - but then I'm looking at it from the perspective of an old-fashioned journalist/editor. There are many instances I can imagine for street photography where gender is relevant and affects the photographer's access and acceptability.
In any case, first names tend to give the game away.
PS: I notice that actresses are often called actors - which always seems a bit insulting to me. Why must they be deprived of their femininity in order to satisfy the gender equality brigade? Men don't get called actresses.

Without discussing politics, let's just wait and see if our society today, will forego saying we have the first you know what president in 2016.

It would be interesting to see what happens if we ever get our first married female President. What would we call her husband... The First Gentleman? lol

Cheryl, gosh, I wish I could say what I want to about how the guy who has a shot at that title is anything but....but I can't!

Marlene... yes, I see how that might be a dilemma... ! Don't say it... don't say it... we're getting reallllly close to that "no politics" 3rd rail....

I wonder if a "First Gentleman" would get all the press about his inaugural ball fashion that First Ladies normally get... somehow I don't see a gown in that scenario...

CHERYL Lets call him bubbles...You know he will be all smiles and giggles.

It could be a gown if the fist gentleman was a cross dresser......

::::ducking:::::::

Pretty good question. But I dont care, since I have some extra groups, where I can put in my pictures and force other users to look at them *self ironic smile* ;)

Melissa: Um... yes. I guess that would take all the sexism out of the nickname bubbles... Wonder what would happen if someone called the current First Lady "bubbles" -- don't see that going over well.

Sandra: [deleted comment]

Marlene...!

I really dont understand you, cheryl. i was answering the opening question from my position. i cannot find a logic context between my post and yours. sry :)

Edit: BTW, when I said, the question is good, I really meant it like that. We are living in times of emanzipation 2.0, not 1.0 anymore. 1.0 meant to strengthen the power of women, make them equal to men, 2.0 means now, that everyone women (and every man) has the choice of being strong or "weak", hard or soft, the worker or the housekeeper. In countries like USA or the EU countries everybody thinks women are equal, but in the heads and looking at the income of women compared to men (in germany) they are not, even in year 2015. But there's no general unequality to disadvantage of women, which can be located in every situation (also men have problems to get in jobs in care professions, also many people laugh if men are doing the keep of home and children).

I think in our countries there is no need to emphasize, that an artist is a woman, because thats quite common (even though I have the feeling that for example male photographers are more snappy and louder, also have a greater self-confidence when its about who has the best technics and knows more about photography). but there could be some parts, where women are not that common as men - for example street art, graffiti. also faa is international, so in some countries it isnt that common, that women are artists - or it isnt common that women even are independent workers.

but i know some of the women-artists-groups and i really dont think, one of the last plausible reasons is reason for that groups. so its just a pseudo-"marketing"-gag to me.

Thank you Sandra.

Marlene, naughty, naughty for getting off topic. I think you scolded someone on your thread for doing the same.

Sandra: Ok, I completely misunderstood what you were saying... just ignore me....

Cheryl ... theres sexism in 'bubbles' ....I had no idea.. Ok, sorry Kevin. Back on topic.

I think I am still on topic.
Our society decides woman titles

I saw a great quote from Marilyn Monroe: Any woman that wants to be equal to men clearly has got no ambition in life!

I just Googled tthe list of the highest sold painters of all time. There was not one woman one the list.

Kevin,

To answer the subject line question, Why Are Women Artist?

I think it is because they can draw and paint etc.....

Oh I see your post above mine. You are getting into the politics of being a woman artist now.
FAA does not allow politics on these boards, I think.

Dave

"Some men think that all women know how to paint is flowers etc..and not really able to compete with their male counterparts. "

I don't know if it is true or not, but for the most part I think some of the greatest are in the world for the past and the present, would be lost if women did not paint from a women's point of view. One of my very favorite (Native American) artist of all time is Karen Noles. Another is.



I personally can not think of one man that competes with Karen. Thank God there are woman that do not want to try to pain like a man! I can not imagine any man can improve upon those images.

Here's another one: Sandra Kuck



I am the furthest thing in the world from a sexists, but I am really glad that some women artists, do not want to paint like a man, and there are few male artist, imho, that can paint anywhere near as good as some women, especially on some subjects.

This discussion brings me back to my school days.
When I was in college I got into trouble because I was protesting against beauty pageants with group of friends.
I was a hippy back then listening to Joan Baez, talking philosophy sitting around a pot bellied stove in a rundown studio with group of friends.
We didn't like the idea that woman becomes an object people can judge on.

"Some men think that all women know how to paint is flowers etc..and not really able to compete with their male counterparts."

Well I dont know too, but if I think about evolution of the human I would think, that woman have a bigger connection to arts. Women are said to be on average more socialy competent and empathic. From my studies I haf the feeling, that women had it easier to create harmonies or had a better natural connection to coloring&feelings. So I dont think, that if there are less artist women, its a problem of less talent. But as I said, i always had the feeling, that male artists are in average louder and better in selling theirself, even if they polarize with their behaviour. Also centuries of patriachy did his part. But well, this all doesnt fit in the actual time - in my first vocational training (it was sth like graphic designer) there were much much more women, then men, also in different art curses, there where always more women...

Hyoye...I recall those endless conversations....I was the devil's advocate back then and had an argument for each of their premises.
The women's lib movement made a lot of mistakes....here we are 50 years later.......

Yes, I am sure it is an endless argument, but perhaps an important question to ask considering we are now in a new century. Things (as always) have changed, but a vestige of "well she's pretty good for a Woman Artist" attitude still clings.

David you need to read a bit more closely before you jump in. My title is "Why Women Artists?" this has absolutely nothing to do with politics, so there again you are off mark. This is about sociology. The point is... if I can categorize any group, they can become the "other" and be pigeonholed into a lesser place than the dominate "we", which is currently (first) white European extract, male, and second, male of all ethnicity. Somewhere down the line comes women (white), then the "other" females of various ethnicity. I don't need to make any of this up as it is a fact and not really debatable. Even the success of one (or a few) does not change the whole.

Marlene, Times are changed certainly for the better.I refused to ware skirts back then. Only bell bottom Jean. My mother hated that.
I am glad to see we have many woman Aritsts in FAA.
Kevin, you are right on the dot it is about sociology.

Why women artist? Love this question, here is an artist who did not hide behind an apron, Alice Neel. I don't have an image but if you are unfamiliar with her work, check it out!

I don't know anyone who does now a days, 21st Century, Checked !