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Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

To The People Who Post "no Nudity Or Vulgarity" (nsfw)

I'm not quite sure why people equate nudity with vulgarity on this site... I recently went to an art gallery opening in Beverly Hills for John Currin at the Gagosian Gallery that was star studded with guests like Mick Jagger, Elton John, Leonardo di Caprio and many others. The artist was there with his two small children. All the art on the walls was already sold. What were they? All nudes! He brought his children there, there was nothing to hide, his art was beautiful, not "vulgar." Why are people on this site so afraid of nudity? There was a contest on this site for photos of children with guns, now that IS vulgar and creepy!

Here is one of my pieces, Is it really threatening to your children? Would they be scarred for life if they saw it? I'm just wondering why all nudity seems to be equated with pornography on this site...

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Bernie Smolnik

9 Years Ago

I was born naked, just as God or whom ever intended.
No one was shocked or surprised.

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

Haha. There needs to be a LIKE button in these forums 😄

 

Bernie Smolnik

9 Years Ago

And

 

Janine Riley

9 Years Ago

For the main reason that this site will be blocked on work computers if explicit material show up.
& if you can't cruise FAA @ work during breaks - then what a bummer.


EDIT:
Nudity is the natural condition.
Vulgarity is exposed genitalia - which many of us do not prefer to see most people's private areas without requested permission.

 

Conor Murphy

9 Years Ago

Alicia, I think it is an American thing, I find them in general very narrow minded compared to the average European, and I stress the Average, If there is a bare breasted lady on the TV it is Pixeled out but killing and shooting is there for all to see. Go figure.

 

Ronald Walker

9 Years Ago

I was born in a suit with a tie.

 

Joseph C Hinson

9 Years Ago

Alicia;

Check behind you. I believe you dropped some names there. LOL Also, here is one of the latest discussions we had on this two weeks ago

http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2351733

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

I agree Conor, but especially in middle America. I live in LA and there are fashion billboards everywhere that some people on this site would consider pornography. I think people who live in big cities and are exposed to more people of various cultures are more liberal than those in small towns. I think kids are actually less squeamish than their parents too, seeing music videos with skimpy clothes. And I find violent video games much worse for kids than a little nudity...

 

Maria Masella

9 Years Ago

Careful Conor, those are fighting words.

Art Prints

 

Tony Murray

9 Years Ago

"Here is one of my pieces, Is it really threatening to your children? Would they be scarred for life if they saw it? I'm just wondering why all nudity seems to be equated with pornography on this site… "

It is simple, your opinion is not the arbiter.

 

Janine Riley

9 Years Ago

Good catch Joe .
And while the engaging work of Andrew Wyeth was known to portray nudes - they were not known to be vulgar.

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

I'm not talking about pornography though. I'm talking about tasteful nudity, just showing the human body not in a sexual act. I just don't understand why it is equated with "vulgarity.'

 

Janine Riley

9 Years Ago

Bernie - I find behaviors to be vulgar when they are forced upon others and are not the cultural norm.
& I find your question to be only "slightly" off - topic.

My own personal belongings - were not in the OP.

 

Tatiana Iliina

9 Years Ago

"not the cultural norm"

as determined by conscientious observance of that which may not be discussed!

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

still though, america is prudish - and one should have a NSFW message on the thread for those that reading this on their break at work - that nakedness online, while not vulgar is inappropriate for work and other places. and just because the artist took his own kids in, doesn't mean others want their kids seeing it.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

What "cultural norm"? LA, NY, Idaho, Texas, Las Vegas, France, Italy, Brazil, the Middle East?

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Nudity is out because people use Google to get here. Google would
put FAA's ranking lower. People in work have to go in dressed. Imagine that.

As for a like button? Then it turns into a messy popularity contest. I have seen
like buttons elsewhere online. Like buttons means very poor ideas rise to the top.
It is not the other way around. Good ideas generally sink.

We dont need this to be the next Yahoo comments section. I get a lot out of this forum
without people forming clicks that are petty and ignorant.

Dave

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Semantics, maybe. It's not that nudity and vulgarity are linked, it's that neither is being considered appropriate in that context. I have seen some pretty vulgar stuff involving fully clothed people. I don't think the two are equated, I think the two words together cover the areas that are, for whatever that particular context is, inappropriate. Nudity and/or vulgarity, not nudity = vulgarity.

The thing about an image based site is that the viewer may never get the opportunity to choose what pops up in front of them. Everyone's offense line is different. It's a professional site, a store open to the public, selling to people of all ages and tastes. I have logged in here and seen an image on the "recently sold" page of a very young girl on her knees in a bathroom in front of a man with an open fly who was holding her by a fistful of hair. Offensive to me? Yep. To someone else? Maybe not. Did I want it to pop up at that very moment I was pulling up the site to show an image to a client? Nope.

If someone with a very liberal view on sexual images logged in here shopping and saw a sunset photo, would they leave the site and never shop here again? Probably not. If a person with more delicate sensibilities pulled up the site and saw the image of implied oral sex I described above would FAA lose a customer? I would say absolutely yes.

America IS more uptight about nudity than much of the world, certainly much of Europe. No doubt about that. IMO, it's because we oversexualize everything.

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

Google allows nude art. Google John Currin. His paintings sell for over $10,000. A few are even rather pornographic...

 

Janice Drew

9 Years Ago

Janine and Mike said it well.

I don't have a problem with nudity, but I respect the rules of this website. It's not about you or me. It's about finding the balance for the majority as a whole body. It isn't any different than primetime network television not allowing nudity. You can go to cable for that. Movies have ratings to guide people as well.



 

Liz Masoner

9 Years Ago

Gagosian Gallery is a haven for copyright infringers. I wouldn't look to them for guidance on anything.

Beyond that, people have a right to specify no nudes if they want. The vulgarity bit captures a lot of other issues, not necessarily nudes. Besides, would you want someone getting fired because a nude popped up on their screen and the boss doesn't give a rip about "art" but cares more about a sexual harassment lawsuit others in the office could file?

 

Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

Huh? The Gagosian Gallery only shows original paintings with the artist usually present...

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

They are not equating the two. They say no nudity OR vulgarity, not no vulgar nudity

 

Janine Riley

9 Years Ago

" Cultural norm " in America. fine Art America .
While it may host many international Artworks - & have sister sites in Europe , the standards are still held as to what would be acceptable in the American workplace.

Lose those workplace views & subsequent purchases - & I don't think Sean would be too happy.

" When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

I have no issues with nudes, and most people don't.
It appears that the problem lies on those who insist on crossing those boundaries, not with the viewer who is exposed to it..

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Alicia Hollinger

9 Years Ago

I live in LA and grew up in Mahattan, NY. The cultural norms that I know are different than many on this site... I never meet people that conservative in real life as I see on this site... I literally had no idea how conservative many people are, I'm just not exposed to that.

 

Jani Freimann

9 Years Ago

Robert, I am the type who would go and tell the loud, unruly children to be quite and have done it. For some reason they listen to me. I guess it's the mom in me.

As for the man looking at "adult content" in a public library. I would expect a librarian to shut that down if it was porn or even nudity for the very fact that children are in the library and may walk by him and see it. I also expect a librarian to shush the children too. If they don't, I do it - the children, I mean. I probably wouldn't even notice the quite man looking at the computer unless he was acting weird.

I do not have anything against nudity in art as long as it is tasteful. There is no need to do it any other way. Most guys would tell you that they find it sexier for a woman to be more on the discrete side. Not prudish, but ladylike.

Now, a man that has to go to a library to view such a thing...there is just something wrong there and don't tell me he was doing research. That's nothing but straight up BS. Women should be viewed as valuable and beautiful creations because they are. Not as a thing to satisfy an urge.
The thing that is wrong with porn or vulgar images of women is that it devalues women and if a man is addicted to such viewings it will ruin his life just like any addiction. I guess that goes for women too, but men are more susceptible. If a man goes to the place of devaluing and objectifying women that opens up a whole slew of problems.

And no I'm not prudish, but I was molested as a child and date raped at 19. Porn and vulgar images ruins lives. I understand it on a level that no one should ever experience.
Erotic art is just a sugar-coating, fancy way of saying porn. Sorry, but it's true.

 

Gregory Scott

9 Years Ago

If I run a contest, or a discussion thread for that matter, I should be able to request that content which I find disturbing or unwanted should not be included.
There are plenty of good artistic nudes. Some are erotic. I personally, would rather not "deal" with the erotic ones, but if it's hard to draw lines, nudity is one that is just easy to objectively draw. "Tasteful" or "Artistic" is just very subjective.

When running a contest, perhaps it would be simplest to say "Any art which I find offensive in any manner will be disqualified without notice.".
The "without notice" part is important. People who run contests are doing a service. I'm sure that there have been contests created to showcase offensive art, or nude art, or erotic art. And that's fine, for those who wish to participate.

Note that I am NOT necessarily equating offensive, nude, or erotic.

 

MARTY SACCONE

9 Years Ago

Using computer terms,...

We all have the same hardware,.....it's the software that screws up everything.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

I spend a week moving stuff from NYC to Florida, (Mostly so I can let my kids run around with guns) and I miss all the good stuff.....

I will be back after I find where the nude beaches are here.

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

While I tend to agree with Robert about people controlling their children, The idea that a guy viewing porn at a public library with children nearby is experiencing "sacred intellectual space" is laughable.

 

Carolyn Weltman

9 Years Ago

Conor is right, it is an American thing. I started my life as an artist selling my work out on the street in New York City. Tourists from everywhere loved my work and only Americans (so many with fake boobs and butts) would do the ewwwww thing when they saw my work. After ten years of hearing Americans fretting about nudity, I brought myself back inside. I still find it is Americans that have the most difficulty with my subject. I also discovered that Russians, Japanese (for the bondage), Israelis, Brazilians and Europeans were the ones most comfortable both with my work and themselves. Maybe I should write a paper on it.

 

Jani Freimann

9 Years Ago

Carolyn, you are not going to like what I have to say and yes, I'm American, but that has nothing to do with it. I have nothing against nude art. I've created many pieces. All of which were in figure drawing classes. To learn and appreciate the human figure on an artistic level. From time to time, I still draw nude figures.

Much of your stuff should have the safety filter turned on because it is not appropriate for children or for the office.

Not your shoe art. Your art showing genitalia and your erotic pieces. Probably even the bondage pieces.

Putting the safety filter on will only protect that image from flashing into someone's mind. They can still choose to click on it. You are not showing shame in something you are proud of by filtering viewers, but showing respect to those who find them offensive and respect to the rules on this sight.



 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

ALL work showing genitalia MUST be filtered. I cannot stress that enough. I had to remove a gentleman altogether because he kept removing the filters I kept adding on again. If you have work that you are unsure of....filter it. If it shows genitalia, filter it. Never add sexual images.

 

Abstract Paintings

9 Years Ago

I agree with no nudity but I did one:
Photography Prints

I don't want because, are ugly people less interesting to show an illustration that would speaks to you?

 

Menega Sabidussi

9 Years Ago

edit: fixed.

 

Gary Whitton

9 Years Ago

"More importantly nudity is a gateway drug to porn. Kids, schools, work places, ads are nudity free."

David,

Not necessarily. I think how the local culture views nudity and sex is very important. People tend to desire that which society says is off limits. I'd even says that they tend to over value it as a result. And living in a state where everyone is taught to be on their best behavior...even bare shouldered dress at a prom dance is considered bad, its not surprising to me its one of the highest consumers of porn in the country.

Also happen to believe that the religiously imposed unnatural lifestyles imposed on priests leads to many of the problems in the Catholic Church today.

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Gary, brings to mind ironic process theory - or the white bear theory.

If you say to someone: Do not think of a white bear, basically all they can think of is a white bear. You can't try to suppress an unwanted thought without thinking about it.
A bit of a departure from the topic, I know, but your post made me think about it.

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Th images where you see anything have all been filtered

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

Now all I see are white bears everywhere....

 

Menega Sabidussi

9 Years Ago

so sorry, didn't realize that the thumbnails are not filtered even if the image is!

 

Melissa Herrin

9 Years Ago

White Bears,Polar Bear,Cold, hard nips, BEWBS,Coke,Ice. ..Now I want a coke..subliminal messaging abounds. Time to put a ban on White Bears ;)

I kid

 

Robert Kernodle

9 Years Ago

Back to the public library story - many people go there because they cannot afford home computers. If the guy had a home computer, then he probably would have been viewing his material THERE. And I was in no way implying that a person at a public library looking at porn is experiencing sacred intellectual space (NOT even close to my implication). I was saying that a librarian CAN allow my intellectual space to be raped by loud screaming children and loud rude adults, which is more vulgar than a person sitting quietly looking at porn.

Children can abuse adults in public, but adults can in no way whatsoever even begin to do anything that might be construed as abusing children. BIG double standard.

Furthermore, if YOU tell other people in a public library to be quiet, then YOU will be asked to leave for being the disturbance! Highly overexposed voices are okay. Exposed genitals, ... not. Double standard. Ridiculous partitioning of morals. How else can I put it?

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

I wouldn't mind seeing less ads featuring bathtubs during the evening news. I think have gotten the message after seeing them 1 million times by now.

 

What?

"Children can abuse adults in public, but adults can in no way whatsoever even begin to do anything that might be construed as abusing children. BIG double standard."

How ridiculous a statement is this? Children are not adults and are worth protecting. Some adults ought to be put in a sailboat in the middle of the ocean and just allowed to drift... because they knew better, but chose to do worse. It's called accountability Robert. I certainly hope that you were speaking tongue and cheek.

 

Ginette Callaway

9 Years Ago

Personally I don't equate nudity with vulgarity automatically. I grew up in Europe and have a greater tolerance for nudity. It's a natural thing. However here in the US living in the Bible belt I learned quickly how verklempt many people are. So a site like FAA who is worldwide has to use more caution trying to not offend almost anyone. Seems impossible. Your image is lovely!

BTW I looked at many of your images and haven't found one that shows exposed genitalia like spread legs meant to arouse. I don't see a thing wrong with your images other than personally I don't go for objectification, but that is a personal issue I have, not a reflection on your work.

 

Ginette Callaway

9 Years Ago

Robert "Children can abuse adults in public, but adults can in no way whatsoever even begin to do anything that might be construed as abusing children. BIG double standard."

Yes that is right on! I see it all the time. Of course here in the US children are as old as 29 still living with their parents!

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Children don't have a sense of much outside their immediate bubble. Their brains are not wired to consider the needs of other adults. They take their cues from their caretakers and then immediately forget those cues and freak out like kids are supposed to do. Your anger is misplaced - it belongs with the adult responsible for kid, not the kid. "Abuse" implies intent. If you have an issue with unruly kids, take it up with the parents. Or go elsewhere. As an adult, you have that option.

 

Floyd Snyder

9 Years Ago

This is funny. Put porno in the FAA search box and you will get an image of Miley Cyrus in the results right along with other NON pornographic images.

 

Robert Kernodle

9 Years Ago

How ridiculous a statement is this? Children are not adults and are worth protecting. Some adults ought to be put in a sailboat in the middle of the ocean and just allowed to drift... because they knew better, but chose to do worse. It's called accountability Robert. I certainly hope that you were speaking tongue and cheek.

I was dead serious, and if you had experienced the situations in public libraries that I have experienced over the past decade, you would totally understand where I am coming from. NOT ridiculous at all. Totally accurate. What IS ridiculous is people who are so out of touch with the truth of it that they think that they know differently. I have LIVED the truth of those words, not just posturing verbiage as an armchair critic.

Children don't have a sense of much outside their immediate bubble. Their brains are not wired to consider the needs of other adults. They take their cues from their caretakers and then immediately forget those cues and freak out like kids are supposed to do. Your anger is misplaced - it belongs with the adult responsible for kid, not the kid. "Abuse" implies intent. If you have an issue with unruly kids, take it up with the parents. Or go elsewhere. As an adult, you have that option.

That's why it is the ADULT responsibility to guide children in ADULT SETTINGS in such a fashion that they do not compromise those settings. The caretakers should be giving the children better cues. My anger is directed towards the adults. My FRUSTRATION is directed towards the immediate results of the irresponsibility of those adults. Try sitting in a place that is your ONLY option to study and think, constantly bombarded by inappropriate noise day in and day out with ZERO adult guidance as to what a public study commons means. There was a time when I had no where else to go. Where would you suggest? You are speaking from the comfort of your good fortune with no clue what its like for others sometimes find themselves in less fortunate situations. I am in a better position now, but in those days, I was not, and I can tell you that it is abuse in the strictest sense of the word. If you lived it, then you would agree. Abuse is also a consequence of negligence, so it is the adults who are the abusers via negligence.

 

Why didn't you just say that Adults should keep their children under control instead of stating that children "abuse" adults? If you are aiming at laws and cross-eyed adults that are monitoring your every move towards your children, that is different altogether. Perhaps the over sensitive nature of our society about correcting children is your aim. I could agree on that portion. Adults who are attempting to control their children are too often cast as villains.

Other than that though, the issue was an adult viewing adult things in a public institution as I recollect. They should be monitored more closely than the children and should know better than to abuse the system. Society has a set of standards about what is viewed in public and on the public system.

Out of touch is when an adult thinks that children bear the same responsibility and consequences for their actions.

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

I don't see public libraries going back to the hushed places they once were, except maybe on a college campus. I'm not sure what happened with public libraries, but when my son was a tot 27 years ago, we whispered the minute we got in the door. The parent whispers, the child whispers. Now when I go into a library, people talk in normal voices, and nobody bothers to be quiet. I wonder what caused the change from quiet sanctuary to what seems like a noisy free-for-all. I watched the change gradually over the years, as I'm a frequent library-goer, and it's always puzzled me.

 

Kevin OConnell

9 Years Ago

For me the reason is that just because some artists create nudes, they automatically call think its in the art category. A lot of it is crap. You have nudes that are not well done and only being sold for one reason, the pervs buy them. I have seen so many sites selling low class snapshots of young naked girls. The were not vulgar, but plain crap. The only reason they get views is because they are young naked women. If they start letting this kind of garbage in, the site would be innovated with it everywhere.

Well done nudes are beautiful, but most know any nude will sell no matter how badly done.

 

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