Fake Paintings

If you're embarrassed by it, don't enter them into contests.

Fake Art America :)

Are you embarrassed for them or for yourself to be so associated?

Dear Heather
Read first - then answer!

Dear Marlene
Why would I wanna associate with someone posing as a painter?

what are we talking about?

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

You can always remove your stuff from a contest.
Contests are meaningless. Just another place to plop your work in the off chance a buyer is browsing through.

Dear Mike

I was only referring to the discrepancy - that on this site the administration tries hard to keep everything clean familywise but doesn't seem to bother when some artist pretends to sell live model paintings when it's only a manipulated photo.

what difference does it make?

did the contest claim it had to be real paint? and how many will police it that much?

there is no prize, what difference does it make?

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Dear HEATHER
I know - I frequently remove my stuff - contests are just a fun game.
But art fraud isn't, is it not?

Everything sold here are prints anyway.

CHoco,

Run the images by Abbie privately.
BUT, the bottom line is that faa sells prints..and that is what customers are buying....

If an artist is trying to pass off a photoshopped photo as a painting, then yes, to my mind, that's dishonest. By which I mean, if he/she takes a photo of a model or some such, and drops an effect on it, and calls that a painting, then, yeah, don't think so.

BUT - I use photoshop to create/clean up/modify my own paintings, and the techniques I use are very similar to using a "real" brush with "real" paint. Brush strokes, blending, stippling - it's all the same, whether using organic tools or digital ones. The only difference is that it's easier to change things using a digital paint program - AND you can't really sell originals. Which is something I miss.

If this is a contest issue, take it up with the contest administrator. Consider that the contest may not have specified what kind of painting and consider that even if it did, some people don't read the guidelines thoroughly and may not being doing this just to piss you off, they just don't read the instructions.

Dear Mike
I do think it makes a difference - when one claims some artistic craft which one doesn't actually possess - I don't mind the prizes at all - and I enjoy digital painting as such a lot. But it affects the credibility of a site if some can easily parade around as achieved whatsoever without the merits. A few weeks ago someone placed a pic of a sculpture in this forum and immediately got kudos from habitués for the sculpture until someone pointed out that this was only a tourist's photo of some famous sculpture in a museum - a random, badly lit and focused on top of it.

Dear JL

I don't mind digital brushes, pencils whatsoever - quite the contrary - I'm looking forward to any new gimmick.
But passing a simply filtered shot as a live model painting is something totally different - the opposite would be rather impressive as in the beginning of photo-realistic painting. Picture a painter who labels his painting as photoshopped digital art - and nobody would find out once the paint dried up.

still, i post photos and people think they are paintings. people can post what they want. i find the buyers don't seem to care that much. and they won't be fooled with junk anyway. in any case, eventually they are caught and kind of made fools of.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Artist misleading the buyer wont hurt him here. However it will hurt him if someone commissions a painting and he/she wont be able to deliver. Only hurting themselves..

Hope you do not mind me adding to this conversation Choco.

There plenty of fake painters and fake artists. You never see a fake musician though do you? Can't fake a real performance. The web shows the most famous fake painter who was trying to make a point that he "thought anyone can make abstract art" for example. Critics did not appreciate being conned when he admitted his false name but critics also commented on his real ability to make abstract art as well.

Reminds me of times when some sculptors in a photo spread promotional interview in an art magazine claimed the sculpture was their masterpiece. In one case an elderly female sculptor stood next to a 5 ton bronze sculpture which is her sculpture but really she only made a small model and hired out all the work from there. Like a person saying they built their house only all they did is approve designs and pay the builders.

That an artist is better by doing every phase of the work from a concept rather than hiring it out is debatable.

Now take collage makers. Nothing wrong with cut outs from books and magazines and pasting up plus painting , etc and showing it as one's original work is there?

Me....I'm a painter with real material but also a digital painter.

It's kinda embarrassing when some people post pictures of themselves masturbating, without a safe filter on them, until FAA has to add a filter... and try to sell those...

I guess I'd need more context. If you tell someone something is a traditional painting, then it should be. Some folks do digital painting which others don't like. Some folks use rendering software to make painting like effects with photography. I find nothing wrong with any of it as long as you aren't lying to sell something.

Milli Vanilli....the first of the famous fake musicians.

I am not sure they were first, but maybe the best known.

The monkeys? Lipps Inc?

Dear Rose
I'd say it's rather embarrassing how in the 21st century Kristian Kitsch is still going strong

I could care less. I dont know what an artistic fraud is.

I dont paint. I rarely draw. I dont claim to do either, so I guess I am not a fraud.
I dont take photos. I work on a very conceptual level. So I guess I achieve what I set
out to do.

If someone came to my condo to spray for ants and I owed him $100 for the job, I dont want to find any
ants afterwards.

If I bought a work of art that was decor and the artist was uncovered for using Photoshop what would I do?

I'd have a laugh over it. But I would not take a large number of shots in the forum at other people. Why bother?

Dave

Choco,

Rose has nothing to be ashamed of selling religious icons. There is a rule against name and shame. You
are getting into that territory.

Dave

And it was transformed to this, and went on to win several national and provincial awards for Fine Art photography:

http://digital-photography-school.com/fine-art-painterly-images-from-your-photos/

Craig,

Back there when I was in diapers I remember how they went from oils to water based paints. Oh the fraud.

Dave

Dear David & Craig
As I already stated over & over again - I enjoy all kinds of digital arts.
But I have a deep respect for those artists who nowadays still have the craft and patience to do real live model painting.
So if some photoshopper comes along pretending to be of such traditional expertise while he's obviously not even doing a good digital job on his photo - I still get annoyed.

i strongly agree with Choco, but the truth is buyers will not see any diference, only traditional painters will know is fake. i seen that alot here faa, manipulated art wroten as oil painting, which i dont think is right, or fair for the costumers, and for the real artist in here. i also paint, traditional art, digital, or manipulate my own paintings, but i do explain it, when i uplod my images thats all.

That could work the other way round too, you know. If a painter comes along with neither training nor knowledge of the subject and claims to be 'making art', out of some delusional notion that slapping paint on canvas or paper constitutes 'sharing his vision' (or some similar term), does that not get slightly annoying also?

There are lots of wannabe artists around, using lots of different kinds of media.

Alban,

That is the thing. It is not FAKE. It is done differently.

I agree Jane there are some really bad painters out there. But I dont get angry at them.
Why would I waste my time. Building my self up with indignatious pride wont pay the
bills or make me any happier.

I figure most of their couple of sales are only to family and friends.

There is no such thing as FAKE art. There are fake antiques. There are forgeries more specifically.

But different methods and tools for making art does not mean the art is fake.

Dave

I am so confused as to why it matters. I work in every medium. I do traditional painting, I take my own photos and original art and up tale then to present a fresh view on an image, I sculpt and then take pictures of my sculptures. I also digitally paint still life and imaginative paintings with a tablet and even my I Phone fingerprint app. I call myself an artist because I create. I am not necessarily producing great work but I showcase it all. Part of my artist statement is that I life I framed and am not ashamed of the developmental stage of a self taught artist.

Apparently I am not great at fixing auto correct either. LOL

Choco,
The only thing you are going to change is your reaction to what annoys you. You do not have the ability to change the problem, as you see it.
So, you have two choices:
1. Stay annoyed and let it eat up your time, energy and thoughts...or...
2. Let it go and say " it takes all kinds."

Choco, which ones in your portfolio do you consider the real deal? Maybe organize them in a gallery so we can tell.

Dear Marlene
Thanks for your consideration about my health, but I can assure you it's not eating me up - it's a debate that's all folks.
I didn't expect it to take up so much effort on my behalf to clarify things - I'm rather surprised how many here immediately react without having gone through all my lines - that I needed to state it again and again that I'm not judgemental about the tools, but that I respect every real traditional painter including you even if we probably disagree on most topics. Good thing about this repetitive forum is I get to practice my English a bit.

I still don't get it. I looked through your portfolio and see a lot of photo manipulations, digital art etc. So you are talking about contests that other people enter?

Dear Edward
Real deal in what sense?
I hope I made it all clear that every pic is based on photography - some of them based on iPhone shots. All are manipulated more or less heavily, composited or layered you name it. I would never claim real painting without actually getting my hands dirty. That's the point - use what ever suits you but to claim manual labour if software did the job is not a dignifying attitude.
Real deal as in really artistic? I couldn't care less what most FAA members think about it to be honest.

Why get upset about someone else's contest when the contest's themselves are fake?

Dear Choco,
When you open a discussion, you can expect people to respond...and in ways ou may not approve of....unless, of course, you just wanna blow of steam about something that pisses you off........in that case, close the thread immediately and the only comment you will see is your own. Have a nice day!

I feel that this discussion is a bit passive-aggressive. Name the art .Name the artist that is irritating you and point out specifics. As long as someone isn't "stealing" or violating copyright infringement in their work, they can do whatever they want and if people buy it, great. There are some amazing painters out there who are masters at forgeries. Kudos to them if they sell their work. There is no such thing in fine art anymore of one medium being preferred over another or more "fine" than another. The age we live in is an enlightening area because of that. We are not limited by other's ideals or methods or preconceptions. I am excited to have been born when I am, to awaken as an artist when I did. I am almost scizophrenic about trying to choose which one to work on which day and that's the joy of it all. If someone creates art I don't love it and it sells, I don't get offended, I try and see what the buyer liked in it and learn a lesson from it and at the end of the day, I'd rather spend my time being positive about even bad art, that negative.

Dear Edward
Is my English so bad or what?
I never talked about a fake contest, but that someone enters a contest with a fake, obviously so desperate to win - as if that would make a difference - that^s all - I'm not upset rather bewildered - not that I really care.

Kim, think that might be Choco's point. If there is "no such thing as one medium being more fine" then why hide how it is made? Just be honest with the process involved to create the work.

Dear Kim
I agree - I'm only puzzled how easily one is misunderstood here - next time I'm gonna write in German.
I admire painters who can imitate others as well - because of their actual craft. One of the biggest alive just had his first exhibition here in Berne while he is still in jail.
But a photoshopper who with some clicks manipulates a pic and then pretends to have it really painted is another story - I hope this is the end of this story here.

thanks Ronald
finally a man of some understanding, dam!

I agree. Entering the wrong medium into a contest ain't cool.

But contests are just popularity contests. I wouldn't get upset about them.

Some people Choco who are on this site, don't understand what a medium even is. They create and then they post hoping for a sale, so cut them a little slack. They might say that something is a painting and not understand that what they should be saying is it's a digital manipulation. Private message them and educate them. I wouldn't mind at all if someone pointed out to me a better way to represent myself. I might not listen, but I wouldn't be offended.

Well, probably a better idea to mind your (general not your) own business and let them get on with theirs, to be honest. I think that would be a good place to stop this attacking other members now. As Kim says, most people here do not even know what a medium is.