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Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Digital Painting Help Please...

It has taken me days to post this question because I am so afraid of the answer...yesterday was my 3 year anniversary here and most of everything I have done with this new medium (new to me) was an experiment...now that I feel ready to do more with it I am faced with a major problem and I don't know how to resolve it or if I can.

JC are you there...I posted a question about an enlarged digital painting the other day and asked if it would print...your reply sunk in so slowly...you said something about it looked ok except for some steps at the bottom....what Finally hit me was most if not all of this digital paint work has steps...EVERYTHING does! Is what I was seeing as just a characteristic of the medium...like a palette knife on oil...a flaw???

So far I have only sold cards or smaller prints with no problem but if someone orders a full size print will it be rejected for printability? The only solution to this I can see is reducing the size of everything to about 25% or adding texture. I thought of ordering a full size print myself to see if it would print but then I thought maybe as the artist ordering they will print anything.

Here is 2 examples one without texture and one with...the texture seems to remove the steps but I don't like it as well. I don't know what to do. I really love working with this medium but don't want to waste my time. Any suggestions would be so appreciated!!!

Photography PrintsPhotography Prints

I know there must be other digital painters faced with this problem...what do we do? I don't know how long it's going to take me to come back and look at this thread again....I am SCARED :)

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Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

the one on the left is ok, the texture can conceal the rough edges. the one on the right is chunky. its not enlarged, but it's not aliased either. the edges are on the hard side. sort of 8bit like. i suppose if they said it can't print and you told them its supposed to look a bit primitive (like mspaint images), then i guess it would move on. however you should probably look into vector shapes or something that will soften the edges a little bit so it looks nicer.

as it stands, you can experiment with NOISE>MEDIAN set to about 2-3 maybe up to 5. the colors are basic already but it may smooth out the transition on the edges better. but you can't do it on the left because the result will look like how it does on the right.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

April Moen

9 Years Ago

Actually, it is aliased. It needs to be antialiased. What program are you using?

 

David Lane

9 Years Ago

Actually the circles jagged edges might be corrected with antialiasing. A touch of soften might help, I think the texture is better and look great.

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

i get the two confused, like fiction nonfiction.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Mike thank you...I am so glad to know that particular treatment will work... all those other words aliased, vector shapes etc...I hate to say but I haven't a clue. The very thought of it makes me feel sick but I guess I am going to have to learn some sort of program.

April thank you...that is definitely a problem... I don't use any...just paint...the texture came out of my cameras software and only sort of works with paint.

David thank you...you have just confirmed what I have been avoiding...I am going to have to take the time to learn a software program.

I hope the first thing I learn is what aliased is :)

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

did you try it and it worked? i'm thinking it should work

aliasing and anti-aliasing is the edges. one is sharp one is softer and more blended in. vector shapes allows you to change the size of the object without it hurting the edges. if your using photoshop, all of that is in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliasing
ignore the technical parts.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

i got a sample of the close up, my idea failed. the best thing to do is just move on and try to soften the edges. or run a water color filter over it one way to soften edges is to make the object. ctrl-A to select all. then ctrl -x to cut it, then paste it. this is a trick to soften the edges a little bit and center things if you need too. then use that shape from there.

otherwise if your going to make many of these, you can make a brush that has soft edges and use it on a mask to make the dots.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Val, Think of your monitor, and of your digital canvas, as graph paper. Your screen is made up of tiny squares. Color on the screen is simply squares that are filled in (more technically lit up) with a combination of red, green, and blue light. Any color in the digital spectrum can be created from those three lights. When you are painting digitally, you are instructing your computer to fill in certain squares (pixels), with the combination of light that displays the color you picked.

This jaggy effect you're seeing is inherent to low resolution bitmap images. Imagine you draw a solid diagonal line across your graph paper screen by coloring in individual squares (pixels). The line isn't smooth, it's made up of diagonally stacked squares (pixels), so the line is very jagged. That is aliased. A hard edge between filled in and blank pixels.

Anti aliasing takes some of those pixels and replaces them with lighter versions (or tinted versions, depending on what background is behind your line) that visually blend the hard edges of your bitmap pixel line into the surrounding pixels. In the case of this image, it blends black to white. The eye sees this blur, this blend, as smoothness.




Bitmap images (filetypes are .TIF, .JPG, .GIF, .PNG, and others) are pixel-based and are what is called resolution-dependent. This means that when you enlarge a bitmap, it keeps only the level of detail it had when it was created and will get blockier and blockier as you attempt to enlarge it. The pixels already in the image stay the same size. If you enlarge your artwork 200%, each filled in pixel gets 200% bigger. You can increase the resolution of an image (make the squares on your graph paper smaller, so there are more squares), but your original artwork won't suddenly have more detail. The image will just fill in the new pixels with the most logical color choice - in other words, it will do the best it can to make your image bigger using only the number of filled-in pixels you started with. This results in images that look like this:



That's why FAA says NO enlargement of bitmap images. There are programs and filters out there that do a really good job of helping your computer make these enlargement decisions, but it's not anywhere as good as just creating your image with the right resolution (number of pixels) from the get-go. For print, your canvas should be at least 7500 pixels on the long side. You can go twice that size easily. Once you start using a higher end image editing program (like Gimp or Photoshop - by the way Gimp is FREE and very powerful), you will be able to choose the size of your canvas in pixels.

Vector images are different. Vectors are lines that aren't defined by pixels but instead by math. When you draw in vector, you are telling the computer that you want to display a straight line (or a curved line) that follows along points that are defined by their location on the canvas (think of it as points on a graph). Because vector lines are based on math and not by pixels, they can be scaled up infinitely with no loss of resolution. Vectors are resolution-INdependent. They're not pixels until you tell the program (Illustrator, Corel Draw, etc) to flatten, or render, your drawing to a pixel based file type (like the types I mentioned above, JPG, Tiff, etc.) As long as they are vectors, they are simply locations connected by lines and fills. You'll notice when you look at vector art it is much cleaner looking. While vectors give you scalability, they don't offer the level of softness or blending between elements that is possible with bitmap art.




Hopefully that helps shed light on all this a little bit. The great news for you is that there are TONS of tutorials and learning resources out there for starting out with either bitmap art or vector art. Don't be intimidated! You're off to a great start on your own.

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Mike Lol...ignore the technical stuff? It is all technical to me....I have never used Photoshop. A brush that has soft edges sounds good!

I need to get some sort of software program. Photoshop seems the most popular and most expensive. It's probably going to take me another 3 years to learn how to use that!!!

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Cynthia thank you....that shed a ton of light! I guess I just need to go pick a software program and learn it.

 

David Lane

9 Years Ago

Gimp is free and does nearly everything photoshop does. It is a great tool to start with and there are plenty of online tutorials.

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Val,

You need to think about picking up an entry level textbook on Photoshop.

I would recommend Visual Photoshop or whatever the exact name of the Visual books are.

The book is easy, but only introductory. As you get into Photoshop you will probably come
to love it. But the love only comes with some mastery. The learning curve is steep.

No pain no gain.

Good luck,

Dave

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Don't wait to be able to afford Photoshop. Get Gimp. You can download it today and after a few beginner tutorials you'll be off and running.

http://www.gimp.org/

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Well this is definitely going to be a challenge...I start reading computer stuff and I start to feel sick....I feel sick just thinking about it but I will just jump in and do it. I can download online and I wanted to go to the bookstore anyway....I feel sick. David you are right...I am already in pain. Cynthia I don't know about the running thing...I feel like I will be clawing my way up a very big hill :)

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Nope. That's all in your head. It's no harder or scarier than learning anything, from knot tying to how to use a recipe.

There is SO much help and guidance online for you. You won't be a master in a day, but you'll be one day better than you were before. Baby steps, Val. :)

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Val,

It is baby steps. You look down the side of the hill later on to see your progress.

You will have ups and downs with the studying, but later on you will be very happy you took the time to study.

The one thing to keep in mind with GIMP or PS, workflow is how things are accomplished. By this I mean
you have to have an order of operations. This is not directly taught on the entry level which is a shame.

Instead you will get the tools one by one. That is the problematic thing. You need to tie those tools together.
Learning the tools is easy. Enjoyable even. Experience using the tools is only difficult because you need
to know workflow. After a few works of art workflow becomes enjoyable.

Dave

 

April Moen

9 Years Ago

Val, another good free program that you can try is paint.net - http://www.getpaint.net

It doesn't have as many bells and whistles as Gimp, but it is a good stepping stone in that direction from Paint. I use it on the Windows partition of my Mac when I need a simple image editing program. I also have Gimp, but if you're not familiar with all the tools, I could understand that it might be a little intimidating.

Cynthia made a good point about the size of the files. I always make my digital paintings much larger than the file size that I upload here. Some start as 60"x40" canvases at 300ppi. The bigger the image to start with, the better your results will be. But I would definitely recommend looking into getting Illustrator if I were you. It would suit your work perfectly, and you'll never have to worry about whether your edges are aliased or not. If that's not an option, you may be able to try an online vectorizing site, but you may not get the exact results you're hoping for if you can't adjust the tracing options yourself. Still, might be something worth looking into.

 

David Lane

9 Years Ago

If you start out with the attitude of "I can't" you just created a self fulfilling meme. You can do anything if you really want to.

 

Darrell Storts

9 Years Ago

After rereading your post. If you are digital painting from software be sure your initial canvas area is set to the largest size you want to print. Then you can sell anywhere from that size on down. I think that's what you are referring to?

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

Val, I am not a technical person either, and when I read those types of things, my mind just glazes over and I have a lot of anxiety. If a person isn't that way, they probably aren't going to understand that feeling. I have learned a lot by simply taking it in small chunks, keeping a list of tutorials in Youtube handy, and researching as I could. Just take it one step at a time, and try not to look at everything at once, so that you are not overwhelmed. You will be surprised at how things start ti fall into place later down the road.

Also, Photoshop Elements is cheaper than Photoshop and has most of the same abilities. And you can use Lightroom, Topaz, etc with it.

It's all a learning process, just take your time and learn it the way that's best for you.

Rebecca

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

you go to you tube, learn whats there, then experiment. make only a few things. usually its these experiments that get you to try all sorts of new things out, you may be able to make a new series like i'm doing now.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Thank you guys so much ...I decided to go for it and had remembered I wanted to check out the Corel line of products and so I did...purchased paint shop pro because I thought it would work with photos as well...it is the craziest thing....it is taking all day....had started the download process and the cat got onto the keyboard and said no to something...couldn't have happed if I planned it but it did...so the thing wouldn't work and I had to uninstall and then reinstall but it won't...so had to contact tech support which wasn't really tech support the first 3 times...now the real tech support will email me. It's like the Who's on First skit. I think I deactivated my license key but they aren't getting it....should just have driven to the store and bought it in a box.

If it isn't exactly what I want I can use it for other stuff and the price was good...now if I can just get it to download onto my computer.

 

Vanessa Bates

9 Years Ago

This may be completely useless information because I don't know about how the art world works, so please someone tell me if I'm wrong.

Corel seems to be embraced by the t-shirt and sign community and Adobe is by everyone else. Not that it's a bad thing since a good sign maker who knows their materials will help guide you in printing a long lasting product, plus many have ways of providing UV protection that rivals the "giclée" printers (which is a fancy ink jet printer using archival ink and papers as far as I know). You'll probably have to special order the paper.

Sometimes you might run into issues of having to export everything because the people who handle the kind of printing you want to do don't handle your native files. If someone knows their equipment, they'll be able to tell you which files format and color profile they prefer and other technical details required to make your work ready to print. If they don't, it's just another headache and more service provider hunting. Hope this information helps.

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

Thanks Vanessa none of it really makes sense to me yet.

 

This discussion is closed.