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Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Foreplay

I am curious

Do you do a LOT of work on a piece before painting (or for photographers taking...) it?

Do you play with scenes? Sketch it all out in detail......?

I do nothing I am afraid. I do a background and then start painting and hope for the best. I used to sketch it all but ended up being too lazy (actually just enough time)

Sp, what do you do? Images only as examples are acceptable

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Darice Machel McGuire

9 Years Ago

I sketch in my scene before painting to give me guide lines of how I want my painting to look.
Art Prints

Sand Harbor by Darice Machel

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Abbie,

Speaking digitally, when I was new to PS,I hated the process of thinking through workflow. At least that was
true at first. If I dont think through my workflow I have nothing. We just found that
out again with my last work. I had a much more complex work, where I did not have
the workflow figured out in advance for the background. I was new to the complexity of it.

Now that I know PS better, I love the process of creating my workflow. It is like having muscles,
you have to exercise them to enjoy them.

Use it or loose it as we used to say to the girls in high school.

My brother in law is a researcher at Beth Israel Deaconess up in Boston. He says his job
is to pull back the foreskin of science. He is a Harvard professor, so I think you should listen to him.

Good luck with your foreplay,

Dave

 

Ryan Demaree

9 Years Ago

Well I just began lead oil priming my own raw canvs..so yes!

gotta assemble the stretcher, stretch and cut the canvas, then I size the canvas with 2 coats of GAC100, then 2 layers of Lead oil ground thinned with distilled turp

takes about a month of prep!

the end result is gorgeous and strong tho!

My only lead primed piece so far

Art Prints

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

I have several images that I have picked at for months. They sit in my "upload" folder, but I am never satisfied, so I keep going back to them. Sometimes I'll think I'm done, then upload it, and see a part that needs fixing, so I take it down. I have a few I haven't bothered to take down and should. I kind of admire photographers who upload images that are described as being shot just that morning, and to my eye certainly look perfect. Not sure I'd ever admit that, but I'll probably never be at that level, anyway. Will see.

As to process, I used to go out with my camera and a specific idea in mind. Not so much any more. I need to get back to that, because those are the only ones that have sold.

 

Julia Hamilton

9 Years Ago

Sometimes I do a practice drawing to see which colors I want to use and to work out the composition. Singularity (below) was a practice drawing for Quantum Flux. As you can see, I decided to leave some of the board white in the final piece. I don't always do practice drawings--just when I'm having a hard time picturing the image in my head, or when I'm not sure about the colors. I use the same medium for the practice piece as the final piece (only smaller).

Practice:
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Final:
Photography Prints

 

Drew

9 Years Ago

I do a lot of planning before painting but i do intended on doing some off the cuff painting. I do like the off the cuff drawings and have had a lot of positive feedback with them.

 

Mary Bedy

9 Years Ago

I've been getting harder on myself before uploading. I spent 5 hours on about 3 images yesterday to get them to where I want them. I know that's not nearly as much time as a painter needs to prep and block, etc., but I also spent 4 hours on the road looking for what I wanted, so that's about 9 hours spent on about 10 images. Again, not a lot compared to painters and other artists, but I don't just "click and upload".

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Nope and Nope.
The only exception is my Judaic series...I study the prayer extensively, read commentary, chant it and then meditate as I begin....still no preplanning on the canvas.
Preconceived notions ruins my process.

 

Lara Ellis

9 Years Ago

I just start shooting and save the best momens I come up with. I delete ALOT, thank goodness for digital! :) I do work on them after the fact in post processing though to tidy things up a bit and make them look the best that they can.

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

I have a lot of work before I can get to work. Once I get the concept and sketch the scene, then I have to model everything or locate models and create all the textures... Most of the work happens before I get to the composition/lighting stage (comparable with beginning to paint).

 

TL Mair

9 Years Ago

I like to visit a location, maybe take some test shots, then return when I think the light will give me what I want, then depending on the photo I do a little or a lot of post before uploading.

TL Mair
tlmair.com

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

9 Years Ago

It use to be that I would set up models (or my camp site) sketch and even do full studies of pieces before I started on the final, but that's gotten pretty sloppy. A lot of the reason is laziness, but with cheap materials and photography than the reasons you had to do this have disappeared. These were always just visual guidelines and references anyway, not what you were saying. So the 'copying' what I see problems I'll take shortcuts on if can.

That said, then I still mentally spend as much time conceptualizing a scene as ever; what and how am going to say this. Copying what the model or place looks like is an easy identifier, or picking the right palette, etc aren't the challenge. But why I'm painting this, and how can I be unique and valid never loses it's challenge. What one scene can you incorporate an event or experience in, or how a person characteristically act and move that's more recognizable than physical features. The historical research that is so available today I want to get right. The why am I painting this question takes a lot of non-paint time for me. The art is in the unique why you painted not copying even your own vision, so now I make stick figures but spend just as much total time in pose and composition to identify. It's about why you're talking not realism; even for realism artist.

Looking like my sketches isn't the focus, so spend little time on that aspect of them. Having my sketches tell my story is the purpose. So that's what they are in reference to anymore not looks.

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-- mary ellen anderson

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

9 Years Ago

It depends on the complexity of the picture I'm trying to make. If it's just a simple thing, or it's just for practice, I don't bother with a preliminary sketch. It also depends on how much of the piece I can "see" in my head before I get started. I don't start until I have something to look at, even if it's just a partial idea in my head.

You can tell that my "Sketch of the Smithsonian" I just started at the left of the page, and drew what I saw... then I had to go back to work, and it remained unfinished, in my sketchbook, for a number of years. Probably not the best thing to post on FAA, an unfinished sketch, but I like it so I did it anyway. For other things, I can "see" finished art in my head, so I can sometimes compose the image in my head, and then it's mostly a matter of copying it onto the paper.

For "Downey Woodpecker" I took a number of photographs during a walk on a snowy day. The bird photo isn't a very good photo, it's a tangled mess of branches, no contrast, no clear center of interest. I got rid of most of the branches, in the painting. But the bird appealed to me. I drew a very detailed sketch of the bird, first, on a separate paper, to get the angles and dark/light areas right, then I practiced painting the branches with galls. The snowfield is loosely based on a different photo. I had to change how the light fell on the snowfield, because the light on the woodpecker dictated where the light in the rest of the painting would come from.

"Peaches and Cream" started out more or less complete in my head. First I went to the grocery store and spent a lot of time picking out three peaches that were visually interesting to me. Then I spent a lot of time arranging the still life until I got a composition that I liked. Next I did a preliminary pencil drawing, on paper, of the pitcher, mainly to get the curves and placement of the handle correct. Next I took paint and "drew" the shapes of the items onto the canvas, after that all I did was paint what I saw. The background had to be repainted a couple of times - first the black was too chalky, then I tried dark green to create contrast against the red pitcher -- which was awful, finally I went back to black with a tiny bit of blue & green in it.

The more I paint the more I find that preliminary sketches save me more time & aggravation than they cost me.

On the other hand, the spontaneous fun of just playing with art supplies sometimes gets lost... "Terra Cotta Mug" was fun, I made it up as I went because I was mainly just playing with colors... everything except the shape of the mug and an old memory of white curtains was purely from my imagination. "Almost Dark" is entirely imaginary - but I could "see" it in my head before I touched brush to canvas. First I painted the canvas a variety of dark greens, very loose, for the tree silhouettes, then I painted the sky, starting at the bottom and working up, one band of color at a time, then I added the bushes & foliage in the foreground. I was pretty happy with it, it looks almost exactly the way I saw it in my head.

My work doesn't look at all like yours... you should do what works for you. They say artists "find their voice." I'm not quite sure I know what that means, except that just doing what other artists do doesn't get you there.

Can you ever "see" your paintings in your head, before you start painting?


 

Joshua House

9 Years Ago

At least with my photography it depends a great deal on the situation. Some images were taken on the fly, but others required a lot of timing. For example, when I climbed Mt. Marcy in the Adirondacks back in 2011 I passed by Marcy Dam and knew that it would look amazing with the sunset reflecting in it's pond that evening(15 miles round trip). The hike had been a group, and we got to the top, enjoyed the view, took a bunch of photos of each other, and of the view (including my first sales on FAA) we headed down. When I got back down to the dam I waited briefly for the light to get "just right". I'd dropped behind the rest of the group on the way down the mtn, and by the time I got back to the parking lot the rest of the group was wondering where I'd gotten to until someone pointed out that I'd almost certainly stopped at the dam to capture the sunset. That hike was on the 17th of August 2011, on the 28th Hurricane Irene came ashore in Brooklyn and came up the Hudson River Valley into the Adirondacks and Vermont. Sometime on the 28th/29th Marcy Dam was blown out by the flood waters, along with the bridge across the spillway that I took the photo from. The Department of Environmental Conservation decided in 2014 that they would not replace the dam, making this not only a great planned shot but also a fortunate shot since it is one of the last images of the pond to have been taken.

To have some idea of the amount of damage the storm did, compare my photo taken from the dam http://joshua-house.artistwebsites.com/featured/marcy-dam-pond-joshua-house.html to this photo after the storm. The photographer seems to be standing either on the point on the left in my photo or somewhere on the pond bed. http://cdn.adirondackexplorer.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/View-from-Marcy-Dam-after-Irene.jpg

 

Bob VonDrachek

9 Years Ago

I look for places that will look great with just the right light and then I return again and again waiting for that light to show up. Sometimes you need the right light to coincide with the right tide height but every once in a while they both get it right at the same time and you're there waiting an hour before dawn and this happens...is that foreplay?
Art Prints by bob vondrachek

 

Jani Freimann

9 Years Ago

Lots of prep work for me. First in thought: Color, value, composition, breaks of space; then in a preliminary sketch or value sketch and then to the final piece.

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Some pieces are more necessary for me to have a value sketch done first. I also use models and reference photos as part of my prep work. It can end up taking lots of hours of prep work, but always well worth it. When I don't do this process, my work rarely succeeds. Besides that, I enjoy sketching and many times end up with salable sketches. Most of my value sketches are sold or have sold as prints. Some pieces of art have the sketch work done under the painting.

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Travel Pics

9 Years Ago

At the 1987 FIS Alpine World Ski Championships - held in Crans-Montana, Switzerland - I didn't have a press pass so had to ski the course, outside of the fenced area.

I went with the aim of entering a ski photography competition, held by The Good Ski Guide (UK), and needed something special if I wanted to to win it.

On the day of the women's Downhill (Combined), the sun was out, the sky was blue and I was after a shot of a skier taking to the air. I searched for a good hill, with no trees in the background.

Once in position, I was soon joined by more sports photographers. Luckily, one of them had a partner on the brow of the hill who would raise a ski pole to signal a skier coming.

With the camera focused, ahead of the brow, and finger on the motordrive, the rest was down to chance.

As luck would have it, my best photo of the day was of a lady in red; that looked awesome against the blue sky. This lady turned out to be Sylvia Eder, of Austria, who won the silver medal.

Although shot in landscape format on 35mm Fujichrome (those were the days) there was enough blue sky for the image to be cropped to portrait and used on the cover of The Good Ski Guide.

The focus on foreplay gave me the winning shot. What a climax.

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David Lane

9 Years Ago

Depends on if I'm saying something or letting the work tell me what it will be.

 

Melissa Herrin

9 Years Ago

This one I did a whole lot of sketching to get the feeling I wanted in this piece. I wanted mystery,magic and nightfall. Only because I was painting an endangered night creature.
The bearded screech owl. One of my most favorite paintings Ive done.

 photo Beardedscreechowl2little_zps9c8a178b.jpg

 

Mark Blauhoefer

9 Years Ago

Heaps. Works begun in December might finally be ready the following December, sometimes the following December. Same with January and February etc

In fact I have some I started ten years ago that should be finished 'eventually'

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

Travel Pics, awesome photo and story!!

 

Julie Senf

9 Years Ago

There is much "foreplay" required before the paint touches the paper......

 

Brian Wallace

9 Years Ago

I don't suggest that doing everything more than once is a viable procedure or method in every case but I'm a firm believer that you learn a few things the first time around which can count as experience to be used to good advantage if you decide on another attempt. The same is true with painting. The first attempt is kind of experimental. By the next rendering you've discovered helpful clues and will have more of a plan in place for improvement. Instead of doing the whole work in the first attempt however, you can usually iron out most of the wrinkles with a shortened version such as a sketch. This is like drawing out your ideas that will be subject to change as your blueprint begins to materialize. I'm assuming of course that you care about providing the best work you can instead of just settling for what happens on the fly.

I believe that everything has potential for improvement, but until we have a prototype, nothing exists to be improved. Most inventions are actually improvements on someone else's idea or original product. By this logic and history, one can also improve upon their own ideas. As a bonus, other discoveries are made along the journey resulting in new products all together.

I've noticed that no matter how many images I create, even of the same subject, even if it's different mediums, painting, photography, etc., none of them will be of an exactly equal result as any other. In other words, if I take two photos (or more) of the same subject, one will be better than another, if only slightly. To simplify, it could be slightly better focused for instance. Most likely there will be any number of things better overall than the other image(s) and on average the "next" photo will be the better one. With this in mind, think of what an intentional, deliberate and focused improvement may yield. More work? Of course. So, how passionate, determined, dedicated are you willing to be in your personal quest to do your best? Rhetorical - especially those with OCD.

 

Jean Costa

9 Years Ago

If it's a watercolor I sketch out the scene lightly with pencil, because there are no mistakes with this medium. If something doesn't work out right at the beginning you have to start over. There is no overworking a watercolor. When I paint with oil, which is most of the time, I do a rough sketch right on the canvas. Oil is so much more forgiving.

 

Melissa Herrin

9 Years Ago

Jean, watercolor scares me. I leave that to the professionals. LOL..Ill make a mess out of watercolor.

 

Nicole Whittaker

9 Years Ago

"Preconceived notions ruins my process." this is me exactly... although I am digital and abstract.

 

OTIL ROTCOD

9 Years Ago

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When I create I already have a theme or design in mind. No sketches, just spontaneous creating my works. Being a papier mache artist I usually need lots of patience. Since Im dealing with a wet medium. I had to wait for my work to dry and ones dried I had to smooth it up using the back of a spoon and from then I would start painting it. Really much foreplay going to create just a single piece. But worth it when you are satisfied with the outcome. Doing cartwheels hahaha.

 

John Haldane

9 Years Ago

I start with an idea but I don't always end up where I thought I was going. :)

 

J L Meadows

9 Years Ago

Beavis voice: "She said 'foreplay', heheheheheh."

Way to get attention, Abbie! ;)

I do a lot of planning beforehand for my works, which is why they take so freakin' long. :P

On my current project, however, I'm actually drawing things on it beyond what I originally planned. It just keeps growing. I hope I reach a stopping point soon, though, because I need to keep adding things to my gallery.

Otil, as usual, beautiful work. Especially your Lady Spring and Lady Summer. Have you done a Lady Winter picture yet? It could be a huge hit what with the Frozen craze and all...

 

Kathy Symonds

9 Years Ago

I still have my old art teacher in my head that said "always create thumbnails first" so I make several small sketches in my sketch book from photo I took or out in nature first then proceed to an under painting on my canvas usually with ultramarine blue. Almost 95% of the time it never resembles my first drafts!

 

Drew

9 Years Ago

I had forgotten about this painting. This was the first oil that had no plan.
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Steven Ralser

9 Years Ago

My best selling piece was kind of planned. I knew what I wanted to do and where to go - get photos of the fireworks on New Year's Eve going off above the Capitol in Madison, wi. What I finally came up with was a bit different. once there I realised I should take bracketed shots for HDR and make it a panorama. This was the first time I did HDR, and only vaguely knew what I had to do - so I took 7 bracketed shots 1 stop apart, in a panorama of 3. Then I took the fireworks photos and added them to the panorama later. I didn't have a shutter release so they became a little jagged.
I was fortunate to do take these photos on that day, as that was the last year they fired the fireworks over the Capitol. In subsequent years they either haven't let them off (either because of weather, or giving the money to a homeless shelter) or set them off to the right of the panorama (in front of the smoke stacks from an old power plant).
I have now sold in sizes ranging from 16" to 90" long with and without the fireworks and as a lack and white.

Madison skyline New Year

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

Like automatic writers, I'm an automatic artist. I don't know what any canvas holds for me. It just happens unplanned, all of my paintings come from the subconscious and most take no more than a few minutes.

 

Liz Masoner

9 Years Ago

I specialize in nature photography so other than preparing ahead with basic camera settings for the light of the day and which lens I hope will be the right one for my subject there isn't a lot of preparation I can do. For the shot below prep was wrapping up in a boatload of clothes (it was like 15 degrees), stuffing hunter handwarmers in every available pocket, and dividing my time between looking at the sandhill cranes I was stalking and down near my feet/the woods close to me because there was a wild boar warning out for that marsh. Oh, and trying not to step in mud that would sink me up to my knees.

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Lois Bryan

9 Years Ago

Cool and very interesting thread ... wish we had a "like" button on here!!!

 

Kevin Callahan

9 Years Ago

This is a 45 second view of the evolution of a large painting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fV7ZVaklmE

The first shot below is the sketchbook watercolor, the original idea, and the second the finished painting 69 inches X 46 inches X 2:
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Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

Record for longest time to reply to someone! Sheesh @ me

That's brilliant, Kevin. You always seem organised art wise . Was it always that way?

 

Loretta Luglio

8 Years Ago

I always sketch. The more detailed the work the more detailed the sketching. I now create my basic compositions in photoshop befire I start. I do some animal art and find it is easier to have all the concept, composition, drawing ekements achieved before I start the painting process

 

Matthias Hauser

8 Years Ago

Great discussion, I completly missed that one... So thanks for answering after 6 months Abbie... ;-)

I usually don't do any planning at all when I go out to do some photography. Sometimes I wish I would plan and organize more but photography on impulse seems to be what works best for me... I try to look for the right light (by getting up early for instance) but that's it.

When I made this shot I just wanted to test a new wide angle lens, spotted a swan and thought he might be a nice subject:

Swan Art Print by Matthias Hauser

Swan spreading its wings in front of the Staatstheater (State Theater), Stuttgart, Germany

 

Abbie Shores

8 Years Ago

I used to do all my outlining for work in paint shop pro. Then Corel bought it, ruined it, and now i can't seem to get to grips with anything :(. Now I have to just imagine and sketch direct

Matthias, lol yes, I was totally missing the replies here! 6 months has to be a forum record

That swan is awesome! Do you feel luck has a huge part to play, as a photographer?

 

Dorothy Berry-Lound

8 Years Ago

Really interesting thread (that I missed when it was doing the rounds!). I can think of only three pieces I have done and one collection where there was weeks of planning, sketching, photographing, sketching ideas, playing with colours in order to pursue an idea. For the collection, because the pictures were to flow and have a story (Tree Layers Collection) I actually sketched a detailed storyboard initially and then each piece I created was one aspect of the story board. At the end I actually made a collage of the final pictures in the way they appeared in my original storyboard. Sometimes I have a plan for a piece and go out to take a specific photograph or a specific reference that I want to use for it. Other times I go with the flow.

 

Matthias Hauser

8 Years Ago

Abbie: yes. But you have to be 'out' often (as a landscape / nature photographer), know your gear and be prepared... ;-)

Hope you don't mind if I post another example, this was captured during a five or six hour long stroll in amazing Barcelona, I wanted to photograph Sagrada Familia church (what I did) and this one was just lucky coincidence:

Barcelona Art by Matthias Hauser

Hat seller with lots of beautiful colored hats in Barcelona, Spain

 

MARTY SACCONE

8 Years Ago

Some of my best photographic images occur when I least expect or while I'm out shooting something entirely different,

At the moment I am working on a series of similar done images,.... whos idea originated while I was vacationing in Stonington, Maine.

A pre-dawn morning shoot resulted in some unexpected interesting light and ocean conditions of a dory at its mooring.

I immediately recognized the potential of trying to recreate this look,....I wanted to apply it to the fishing boat fleet anchored here in Lubec, Maine where I am located.

Light, weather, tides and vantage point,....must be just right,.... with frequent visits being key to pulling each image together.

I now have 8 or 9 completed images posted to my FAA site,...and continue my ventures to be there at the right time.

The original dory image,....and one of the spin off fishing boats images are shown below.

The project is not only time consuming ... but also there's intricate post processing involved that can run into many hours.

Other than this though,.....I am usually very spontaneous when out with my camera,...

I guess that is the " Foreplay" part of all my ongoing fun photography projects

I never knowing exactly what I will be rewarded with,....for,...hmmmmm,.... being patient and gentle with my subjects so to speak. ;-)


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Vincent Von Frese

8 Years Ago

Great analogy sex and art.

If you are not really turned on then forget it .....in love as well as in art!

Excitement and energy is the key to great art! Great anything!

Satisfaction is only at the highest level too so if your art is a struggle so will viewers see it. That and boring. But if it is free flowing beautiful energy then it has the yoga force in it.

 

Michael Hoard

8 Years Ago

Greetings Abbie, I too missed this thread and a very good question? I do feel their are artist who have this ability to start at one point and create a painting and be in control throughout the start and completion of the painting or drawing. You can notice this in various mediums, example some watercolorist and painters faintly use a line drawing as reference others such as yourself have the power to apply directly and they are amazing to watch as they are in control and destiny of the painting at hand. I do remember as a young artist I would use my fine paint brush and sketch reference lines and then proceed. As I matured I rarely do this I start at one reference point on the paper and use the dimensions of the paper or canvas. Many masters past and artist of today still use their hands and frame a particular landscape or still life and they go back to their canvas and view the canvas with that reference or overall perspective in mind.

As a photographer I never think twice about it, at first glance I know instinctively like so many a particular scene would make for a excellent composition. I have even been on my bike riding and turn back with camera in hand and snap the image. My eyes are constantly in motion sometime too much eye stimulation, looking beyond foreground and includes background in search for a particular or right their before my eyes in the foreground.

Having appeared on many TV and motion picture sets many of the directors will leave from behind the camera and walk into the scene directly and use his hands as a framing reference of exactly what it is he wants to emphasize in the completed filming. Just recently while being featured as a Gentry and (chicken owner) in the new remake of Alex Hailey "Roots" the director had walked up to me with his hands framed and instructed the other actors to stand right and left of Michael he has center screen for the particular scene we were taping. Being in the industry I am constantly observing from the many photographers on set and directors and personally assist me in my very own photography and have noticed a change to a more defined capture. The one biggest quirk many directors like so many photographers have is that ideal light source. The cameras used today are ultra sensitive for motion and film speeds ISO and so forth. Many times the shoot would be postponed until a cloud may pass directly in front of the sun, or they quickly bring in retractable diffusion shields. to continue shooting.

You mentioned above if luck plays a role in that ideal shot? Yes and no it depends upon the situation at hand. You have split second timing to capture some of those particular photos are what I consider the best their is. The photographer did not have to think twice about, it was take advantage of it or forever loose that fraction of a second image. In my image posted below, I actually saw visualize what was about to take place in real life, and maneuvered myself into position to capture and the sister in front of the bicycle caught glimse of me standing to the back with my camera, rushing around crawling on the sidewalk, inbetween legs and I popped up and the subject was waiting for me, I was in hysterics, get out my way, I had no time oh excuse I have to take a photo, oh my gosh lol, lol, lol, what a great memory,,,, of course I am sure he thought I was a news media photographer and decided to put the brakes on, the image speaks for itself "Oh My Gawd I See Colors" This amazing photo has reached a milestone of 1,157 views. (An Example photo below of releasing the shutter at the right time)

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All Rights Reserved by Michael Hoard (A Future Book Cover Release)

Cheers, Michael Hoard Principal Actor, Artist, Photographer and Writer

 

This discussion is closed.