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Phyllis Kaltenbach

9 Years Ago

Dishonest Art?

I am sorry, but, I do believe I have been sent off in a tangent! Why are people NOT putting in a description of THEIR photos, painting , sketches colored pencils or whatever THEIR medium? I have begun to see photos or paintings that, I suspect, are not what imply they are, or IF they say what they are! Some photos appear to be copies of a professional photo and there is no description to tell me WHAT they really are! ??? Many "Paintings" I bring up look, more like a photo that a Painting program has been used on - and there is NO DESCRIPTION to say what, if anything has been done with whatever the image is. I know there are a few wonderful ARTists that can paint and someone would swear it was Photograph. Unfortunately I am not one of those artists, but at least, what you see is what you get! I love the photographer who is honest and will tell what he has done to his photograph to make it look like a painting! I love photographers who use their own wonderful photos and put in a nice description! I love descriptions of photographs and paintings, by the Photographer and artist, who tell what they have done with their work! Suddenly, WHERE ARE THE DESCRIPTIONS of the Photos/Art? I am not pointing finger at anyone in particular. I just don't want a photo that has been doctored up on the computer to be foisted off on someone as a painting, nor do I want someone claiming a photo his when it is someone else's. WHY ARE the "Artists" not putting in their descriptions! An area is there for the descriptions. PUT them in, please! By NOT putting in a description, the Artist/photographer is not telling people what they are looking at!

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Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Well to put a fine point on my reason is that I uploaded some new works put them in a gallery to edit today and haven't gotten a chance to describe them and also I have been rather lazy putting descriptions but then again at first I was only going to use FAA for a kind of scrap book for me .. it wasn't for selling but I have been fighting something in the way of an illness that has the doctors baffled and having to go back and forth to the doctors and being ill from an infection and also not feeling well.. not an excuse im sure but that is why mine are like they are.

Also .. I have been a little down lately.. my art is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes and keeps my mind off of things.. yes I use photographs and digital programs but im limited physically by what I can do anymore. I use to paint.. I have painted many many paintings, I use to take photos by the thousands and even process them in my own darkroom ,I use to sculpt and do pottery but cannot I don't have the strength to do much of anything anymore. Thank goodness I can still use the computer and I do use my photos and old photos and also sometimes i even do original works that I have had here but deleted them for the time being.. I suppose to answer your question.I do what I can with what I have left in me. I used to produce works that would knock your socks off.. and I used to make sculptures from found materials also used stone and other mediums.. but I cannot any longer and have been lazy adding descriptions because I am sick but the art keeps me going and keeps me from focusing on things I should not that cause me stress.. so hope my answer helps you understand at least what is happening with me.. Jean

 

Rose Santuci-Sofranko

9 Years Ago

I'm confused....you have this one posted as "painting-photo" with no description of "what you did to it".

Sell Art Online

 

Don't even get me started...

 

Murray Bloom

9 Years Ago

Phyllis, it doesn't matter what anyone has done to their images. This is a sales site, and all that's important is whether a potential buyer likes the image. It's not art school, where you have to explain everything.

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Murray , you are so funny.. i love it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im laughing so hard.. thank you and Rose I have no idea who's Teddy Bear that is but not mine lol....thanks Murray you made my day. !!!! God bless you ..

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Hey Justin.. please start.. please please please.. im laughing and my wife is over here cracking up...we are both ill so it is making us laugh which is a good thing. lol

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Hi Phyllis 😃

I get what you mean about people calling things paintings when they are not real ones but filters or digital art.

But people are what they are I'm afraid :). Life's too short to get too upset over it. Buyers normally are not too worried.

However, there is the deeper conversation of, is it fraud to misdescribe a product for sale?

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Isabella,

Sometimes I will use the brush effect in some of my things but never to deceive anyone ..I only do it to enhance my photos but then I get disgusted and delete it so its gone after a bit.
I change my art and my stuff like people change their underwear.. here today and gone tomorrow.. still trying to find what works.. but deception never.. or fraud never. Im guilty of digital manipulation but it is all my images .. and sure not trying to pass off anything as my paintings.. I have some paintings I have done over the years but then again most of mine have been sold over the years.. but just wanted to clarify nothing happening in the way of fraud with me. I did put some public domain stuff on for a bit but was going to donate back to the source although they had no restrictions on use or anything . Also being as old as I am I have collected old photos of friends and such over the years and displayed them here.. but anyway ,
its fun to participate here ..thanks again. Jean

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

I was interested. After all, if we sell a banana for food that's made of wax, that's fraud. If we sell a cotton coat that's actually made of polyester, that's fraud. If we sell a Rolex copy as a Rolex, that's fraud.

So if people say a Print of a digitally enhanced photograph is a print of an oil painting....is that fraud?

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Yeppers.. I would think so.. but im pretty sure I have never done that.. as a matter of fact im positive .. im not good enough to do that lol..but I do tinker with things that make images weird but never presented them as such.. im sure of it. but after all this was a general discussion about everyone not just directed at me heh?

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Yes, it's a metaphorical question to all

 

SharaLee Art

9 Years Ago

I'm fairly new to FAA and have been concentrating on posting my images rather than adding full descriptions. Some of my images are photos, some are photos that have been digitally 'painted' either with a virtual paintbrush or program. Those with more than the standard editing applied, I have classified as photograph/digital art. I'm a little offended that just because I choose to use a digital paintbrush or pen that it's not considered art. Even when I use a digital painting program 100%, I'm never satisfied with the outcome and apply my own finishing touches. Also, I've seen some fantastic digital art here on FAA and I would never say they are not ARTists. In fact, I think they are more talented than some paint on canvas artists.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

faa sells prints.
how could it possibly be fraud if the site delivers what it claims to sell?
a print is a print is a print.

Regarding lack of descriptions...the artist benefits by using sentence descripions...it only hurts the artist to omit them, as I see it.

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Not sure where it says that you are not an artist if you use digital tools? You are every much the artist.

Marlene... They may be prints but.... Say I sell a print of the Mina Losa, claiming it is a print of the Mona Lisa, I could still get in trouble.

It matters not they are prints of......

That's why I iterated they were prints of....

I also did not say FAA.

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

I keep seeing the Mona Lisa thing pop up over and over.. I can't get out of my mind that my sister in law is a wonderful artist.. and every time I see the Mona Lisa l,I can't help think of the copy of Mona Lisa that she painted exactly as Da Vinci did...it is perfect duplicate of the original ,size and layers and colors down to the last detail but she did sign it with her signature but it is a copy of a famous painting done with the same exact technique that Da Vinci used with the same varnishes between layers and everything.. I would have to wonder what Da Vinci would think about her copy ,but what I have read and heard about Da Vinci is that he kind of used others to mass produce some of his art and this is hearsay but I saw a documentary on Da Vinci that says they really aren't sure that Da Vinci actually painted the Mona Lisa and that there are more than one copy of it known to exist. I think three already have been found in total..just saying mass produced and contributed to by others.. sound familiar?

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

If you say it's a digital oil painting print then that's not a trading standards issue. However if you miss off the 'digital' then it could be construed as being a trading standards issue.

That a different issue really and f she passed it off as the real thing she would be in trouble... Hmm.. Not really different then :)

 

SharaLee Art

9 Years Ago

Lady Isabella, perhaps I was assuming this because of the quote marks...

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

Sharon, that was purely to make the word stand out lol. Digital art is most definitely art.... Or I hope so as a lot of work I do is digital alongside my traditional work

 

SharaLee Art

9 Years Ago

It's too early in the morning here, I think my brain is still asleep lol.

 

Nicole Whittaker

9 Years Ago

since you mention "dishonest art" you have a gallery of art/photos that aren't yours but they are still for sale as prints and pillows. this is one of them: http://fineartamerica.com/featured/hawaiian-painting-by-sands-phyllis-kaltenbach.html

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

No it is an actual oil painting. She did it because she could I suppose and she was also doing a study of his works and techniques . She is also an art teacher.. I can't think of anything but the one that sits in her living room when I see the image of Mona Lisa..its like she has her own personal copy and nothing to do with digital. Just remarkable.. I think you would be impressed.. but she isn't an art forger but just a humble teacher and one of the greatest artist I have ever known...I had to brag after all she is my sister in law lol...anyway maybe one day i will send the photo of the piece sitting in her living room with her so you can take a look at it.. see what you think but she definitely signed her own name ,after all why give da vinci credit for hers lol...

 

Jane McIlroy

9 Years Ago

There's nothing wrong with copying someone else's work as an exercise, or to hang in your own home, as long as you don't try to sell it.

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

I should be so lucky to have it to hang in my home ,but to embarrassed to ask for it or to buy it.. although she did do a fantasy portrait of my wife and I that I commissioned her to do several years ago.. so realistic but still in the mythology realm , Just fantastic.. her work is so awesome. She has painted presidents ,famous musicians and celebrities all because they commissioned her to do so..she has an amazing portfolio..She knows I am an artist to and she ask every once in awhile how and what im working on and I just keep it all low key...Because she is such a awesome artist ,I cannot compare my art with hers.. hers is a very different kind yet she loves my things I have shared with her. As a matter of fact she has several of my photos framed and signed and dated in her home with the title in place which I find a honor in itself.Im not bragging about myself here but I am about my sis.. she is astounding.!

 

Roy Erickson

9 Years Ago

To me - the description should be what the image is of - if a photograph it should be a photograph of . . . If it's a painting - then perhaps an 'oil' or 'acrylic' or 'watercolor' of . . . If it's one of mine - it's a digital abstract - (created digitally using a computer) - I have yet to figure out what the image is off - except color, composition, and .... Pretty much - it's what you see is what you get

Art Prints

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Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

I agree with what Roy said. Jean

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

Vivian, just rise above. Billy is clearly spoiling for a fight. You don't have to explain yourself more than you already have.

Which brings us back to the topic. NOBODY has to explain themselves to anyone (unless it's a buyer, and then the smart money is on explaining). Yes, sometimes people put descriptions of their work that don't fit into standard categories. Sometimes they do it on purpose to fit into a search niche or whatever. A few people are dishonest, and represent a certain type of art as another kind on purpose. Sometimes people don't know what to put there.

We as artists shouldn't feel the need to police our peers about their choices.

But there isn't just a simple pull-down menu to pick your medium. Artists can also write in a description. You can be as detailed as you want or your can use that space for some other purpose.

Once again, If a buyer isn't clear about the medium or has questions, they should ask the artist.

 

Billy East

9 Years Ago

Cynthia Decker: I
I'm not spoiling for a fight .

I just up loaded a file and here is what the FAA upload form clearly stipulates:

Medium (e.g. oil on canvas)

Artwork category
ceramics, digital art, drawings, glass art, jewelry,mixed media,paintings, pastels,photography,pyrography,reliefs,sculptures,tapestry and textils.

There is an original artwork form as well

This original art category is for the sale of the original art I would presume.
The print sold of the original art are in a variety of separate categories or offerings.

You wrote this:"Yes, sometimes people put descriptions of their work that don't fit into standard categories. Sometimes they do it on purpose to fit into a search niche or whatever. A few people are dishonest, and represent a certain type of art as another kind on purpose. Sometimes people don't know what to put there.
But there isn't just a simple pull-down menu to pick your medium. Artists can also write in a description. You can be as detailed as you want or your can use that space for some other purpose.

Once again, If a buyer isn't clear about the medium or has questions, they should ask the artist."-Cynthia Decker.


As you can see there is a simple pull-down menu to pick your medium.

Viva Anderson , approached my response to Phyllis Kaltenbach saying my statement was insulting and she called me too simplistic. You mentioned condescending .
In the process of elevation , you may wish to rise above exaggeration and base your ascent on the facts what is written.



 

Joshua House

9 Years Ago

Why is this still open?

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

In addition to that pull down menu there is a box titled "medium" where the artist can put whatever they want.

 

Billy East

9 Years Ago

Medium is not subject

 

VIVA Anderson

9 Years Ago

yes, why is this still open?

Billy, you are really amazing......to say this, a few minutes ago, after all I've done to clarify my thoughts spoken days ago, it seems......which proves to me, you are stuck and I must move on away from your constant repeating out of further context all that you are ignoring.............I am now complaining to management about your inferences of my Medium being dishonest, via all your constant badgering, even though I've shown you I do post a Medium: i.e., PAINTING, here you are back again.
saying:
Viva Anderson , approached my response to Phyllis Kaltenbach saying my statement was insulting and she called me too simplistic.

You had three reasonable explanations and still took umbrage . Well, now I take umbrage.

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

Reminds me of a book I'm reading that describes "gatekeepers" and "goalkeepers" - gatekeepers think they are important, those who try to impose rules and restrictions on others while the real people who are important are the goalkeepers - the people who actually purchase the work.

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago



Although they do give an example, the field is open and the uploader can put whatever they want in there. They could put "ice cream sandwich" in there if they wanted to.

 

Billy East

9 Years Ago

Cynthia Decker: in the example you posted would you in all honesty enter "ice cream sandwich".

 

Diane Diederich

9 Years Ago

OMG…Give it up already!

 

VIVA Anderson

9 Years Ago

I have taken umbrage, and spoken to admin. Enough is enough.

Good day to you all. I am off to an appointment. Let the chips fall where they may. IMHO this young man needs to be sanctioned for harrassment.

 

Cynthia Decker

9 Years Ago

You can't be serious.

 

Billy East

9 Years Ago

Cynthia Decker: Hey check out the other forum topic , Trying to understand resolution Dpi.
It's even better than this one.

 

Hans Neuhart

9 Years Ago

To Lady Isabella,
Have you ever used a digital paint program, Like Photoshop ? I have been creating illustrations and fine art using digital paint programs for over 25 years. I also have a thriving business suppling Publishers with digital art. Just so you know "it's the 21st century" and one can actually paint on a computer.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

You know Cynthia, putting in 'ice cream sandwich' kind of makes me giggle and want to do it. O;

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

I love this discussion , I wondered what happened to it. glad someone brought it back ,and Hans ,I just checked out your art..Fantastic!

 

Kevin Callahan

9 Years Ago

Lady Isabella uses digital, traditional, and photography. She is well aware of the modern world, no need to be snarky.

 

Hans Neuhart

9 Years Ago

Jean,
Thanks for the nice compliment. This is one of those discussions what will probably never go away. Kinda like republican vs democrat...you say tomato,
I say tomato, you get the idea.

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Yes Lady Isabella uses many mediums, many here do. I too am a digital artist and sometimes find it is very hard to work through the cultural bias's that prevail. However I do like to consider myself as a somewhat pioneer and watch the digital art world unfold. Its come a long ways from the twenty years or so since I began to play with it. I am enjoying the ride of painting with electricity.

 

Vincent Von Frese

9 Years Ago

Murray, are you saying the site is like the Dollar Store or Walmart...where all the merchandise is there to sell and that's all?
In art museums there are well written statements about each work of art.

I have noticed the same thing here...no explanations just a "flash" of artwork like a commercial on TV but at least the commercial has some explanation.

Each so called art work presented should include a statement.

 

Vicki Maheu

9 Years Ago

I wish FAA had a "like" button for discussions, the way facebook does. LOL

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Vincent , I usually have a lot to say although much of it is meaningless but sometimes you get NAME BLOCK..you feel the work is what it is.. and someone will understand it. My eyes are failing and sometimes I get just plain tired.. im ill so it is harder to manage. And sometimes you think.. does anyone really read what the description says anyway?

Frankly if you have the time to name and describe my pieces it would be great.. as I do not have the energy to do so much of the time. but if you could it would be exceptional help to me.
Sometimes when im working the feelings just flow and it is easy to name and to describe other times nothing..

Vicki me too..

 

Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

Frankly Jean, descriptions are very important, I always read them. I know I run blanks when it comes to descriptions but it helps in the scheme of things, as far as google goes. It also is very helpful for possible buyers, it gives them inside, personal information that may well be the defining factor for a sale. You really can't afford to leave the description aside.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

9 Years Ago

My art is all "real." In quotes because what constitutes "real" art could be a donnybrook of a debate. Anyway, I don't describe it because it pretty much looks like what it is. Res ipsa. I assume anyone intelligent enough to find my work on FAA (no small feat, if you don't already know it's there), can figure out what it is without a written description. Is there anyone out there who can't tell what my work is without a written description? If you need a description, let me know & I'll write one... That said, if my work were more complicated / sophisticated / enigmatic / modern / abstract / non-representational, having a place where I can explain -- if I want to -- is good. I remember appreciating the art at the Hirschorn Museum much better once they started posting signs on the walls that contained information about what the art is supposed to be/do/etc.

 

Elizabeth Bathory

9 Years Ago

Sydne, I will give it some thought.. I think you made an excellent point.. Jean

 

HW Kateley

9 Years Ago

Interesting... How often when one sees a piece art of whatever medium is there a description of what it is? I'm not saying one should not have some description or text with a piece, but it seems to me what that is should entirely up to the person who is offering it. Obviously, one should put things in a general category at least, photography, painting, etc and there's some confusion on those. But really, is that even necessary in an absolute sense as long as what is there is honest? The buyer is getting an image, or not, at their choosing.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

This is shut down until I am awake enough to read all the posts and see what is going on.

I may reopen it tomorrow.

 

This discussion is closed.