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Sydne Archambault

9 Years Ago

An Afterlife?

One of my favorite theologians, Marcus Borg once said when asked about an after life, “So, is there an afterlife, and if so, what will it be like? I don't have a clue. But I am confident that the one who has buoyed us up in life will also buoy us up through death. We die into God. What more that means, I do not know. But that is all I need to know.”

I know there are many of us here who don't believe in an afterlife, some of us do, and one of us is very confident as to what an afterlife might be. (;

Rule for this thread, this is not a scripture thread, but what do YOU believe.

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John Crothers

9 Years Ago

I don't believe in an afterlife.

Or a beforelife for that matter!

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

I believe we just don't know -- how could we? Nobody has come back from the dead to tell us. The unknown can be scary, but I think we need to be brave enough to keep living -- not knowing -- and do the best we can here on earth. It's one of the hardest parts of being human and conscious -- to keep going while others have "passed," and knowing we, too, will soon be no more. I am comforted by the thought that my body will feed the earth, and I don't believe in souls.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

There is a body of evidence that people love to ignore, but that I feel is extremely valid almost as a new level of science that is emerging in our time. I don't know if it will allow us to connect to what we now consider non-physical or non-local energy in the near future, but one of the technologies, and forgive me, I haven't studied it at all is EVP. Electronic Voice Phenomena is difficult to explain even to this day.

The thing I'm trying to suggest is that human consciousness has evolved in my opinion. You can make this religious if you want to, but I'm not either atheist which is very religious or any other sector of religious dogma. I look at the evidence which is very interesting. But be careful...if you go into a world you're not ready for, you may find yourself more sensitive to this kind of phenomena.

It's fashionable for grounded folks to say some of this is imagination or BS and that might be the case. On the other scale of 180 degrees at the present time there are a great many instruments like temperature gauges, recording devices, Frank or Ed boxes, Jacob Ladder device, infra-red, em-pump, dark light, magnetic meters, that are used in haunted places that pick up non-local energy. I think we'll find that these energies are real and intelligent in time, but I'm not betting on it.

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

Very intriguing, Lisa! I'll be watching for any developments into EVP. Meanwhile, I did a little reading, and I can't disagree with the fact that our brains work to perceive meaning in random sounds. Yet I agree with you that human consciousness has evolved and will continue to do so. There will be exciting days ahead. I think I'm one of those "grounded folks" of which you speak, but my views are not based on what's fashionable, only on what I believe to be true -- for myself.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

Oops, sorry for that word "fashionable" Patricia. In science, it's highly unfashionable to talk about high strangeness without the boorish science data and results that can support a thesis. In the art world, things are equally grounded in politics and backing up what you say with evidence. I see you, Patricia, as a very honest human expressing what you believe to be true and that has integrity that I respect!

 

"Well, this is great. If the ionization-rate is constant for all ectoplasmic entities, we can really bust some heads... in a spiritual sense, of course." - Ray Stantz

EVP? Seriously?!

The simplest explanation for Electronic Voice Phenomena is that it's the product of your own wonderfully complex brain, aided by a strong emotional desire to make contact with the dead.

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

I do believe in an after life, and believe it or not it has nothing to do with scripture. Ever since I can remember I was always curious and still am curious about this life, always wondering and always amazed at how beautiful a thing life is, even in it's suffering and it sorrows, it has something so mysterious. I've always known that it would not be something totally attainable to discover in this life what it is. I've always believed for some reason that it would be in the next life that all things would be revealed. I still believe this and it is the most joyful hope for the future I have because I know it's inevitable, the day I meet my maker.

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

As far as evp which I am slightly familiar with, I don't believe they are a product of the brain or the desires or motives of the person who captures them. I believe there exist many such phenomena which science can not explain or explain away. One such fascinating scientific event or experiment is the double slit experiment, in which atomic particles behave in different ways then they are understood they should behave, and only when being observed by human eyes as if they "the particles know they are being watched" very fascinating and still a mystery.

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago


Watch this episode of Brain Games.


 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

I love that episode, Bob.

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

That doesn't explain EVP. There is more technology than just recorders. There are voice analyzer instruments that can detect whether the voice is from human organs or something else. The same technology examines speech and frequencies. There is more science than what you have presented in the episode of Brain games. I don't want to change your mind, but you are only looking for evidence that supports what you believe and belief makes for bad science. Show me something more than entertainment and fashionable undeterred ego fancy and I'll be a bit more interested in this thread.

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

Oh and to answer the original question, No there is no afterlife.. we only get one chance at life, use the one you get to its fullest.

Consciousness is a product of brain chemistry, and electrical activity of the brain neurons. Once those stop we no longer exist anywhere.

 

Lawrence Supino

9 Years Ago

All that makes up human "brain chemistry" existed long before the human brain.
The brain's neurons "evolved" so many times...it's a wonder why they "no longer exist anywhere"...by now...eh?

Maybe they're suicidal and thought...
Lets just get into a human and end this madness? ;))

 

Lisa Kaiser

9 Years Ago

OK, Bob. That's comforting.

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

I think it is liberating.

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

if that were the case, I think it's a waste.

 

Let's have a real quick show of hands...is there anyone here who believes the Earth is flat?

Do you still believe that lightning never strikes twice?

You probably think that unprotected exposure to the vacuum of space means instant death, or perhaps you still believe that there's no gravity in space.

And what about the dark side of the moon…do you suspect that it's always shrouded in darkness?

How about diamonds? How many of you still think that diamonds come from coal? Let me help you with this one…the carbon in diamonds has been confirmed to pre-date every lifeform that ever appeared on this planet, which means the diamonds that Mario wears in his lobes weren’t derived from coal, a mostly ancient plant material; NEWSFLASH - they’re most likely made of star-stuff.

And speaking of brain cells...if you still think you destroyed most of what Mario's god gave you back when you were bingeing as if there were no tomorrow, you can relax now; your precious brain cells have always had the ability to regenerate many times over in the course of your lifetime.


We should fire-up a new thread and call it MYTHBUSTERS...maybe then we could finally put to rest all the nonsense that passes itself off as wisdom.

The truth is out there.

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

as for your diamond myth




just proves that carbon dating is flawed!

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

"You probably think that unprotected exposure to the vacuum of space means instant death", no not instant death, you would suffocate first , your blood would boil and you would then freeze to death.

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

Mario.. thanks.. that confirms what Patrick said. (about diamonds)

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

Huh? how that?

Did you know A pig’s orgasm lasts for 30 minutes?

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

The carbon that is in the center of the earth was created in the center of generations of stars each generation creating heavier and heaver elements from the dust of the previous generation of stars. When those start go supernova they spread out the new elements into space only to eventually condense into new stars or just clump together to form the planets. Stars do not make diamonds just the carbon that makes up the planets like earth.

 

Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

The pig thing is a good example of survival of the fittest in action. During that half hour his sperm has time to fertilize her eggs. If it were shorter than there would be time for another male to have his way with her and fertilize her eggs. This way the male is insured to pass on his genes to the next generation. Cool how that works huh?

 

Mario Carta

9 Years Ago

Certainly a stretch of the imagination to claim the video I posted proves Patrick's origin of diamond theory. So far the diamonds come from the center of the earth, according to the national geographic video, Now if Patrick the science guy who might be related to Bill Nye the science guy has some thing better to prove why, I'm all pig ears.lol

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Bob Galka

9 Years Ago

Patrick says that diamonds are made carbon just as the natgeo video says. The carbon that is in the center of the earth was created in the center of exploded suns, not from coal, which was created from organic material.

 

Rudy Umans

8 Years Ago

The Hindu religion is not the only religion with that idea Sydne. As a matter of fact, it is the pillar of all religions. The Beginning that has no Beginning and the End that has no End. It is a direct reference to God.

But, the Hindu version is best known (especially for a guy like Carl Sagan I suppose) because Tesla's 3-6-9 theory is related to this and because of the Hindu's OM or AUM sound, which is the sound the universe makes and refers to that also. The same with the Yin Yang sign, which is older than the Hindu Religion I believe. Yin is 3, (the Beginning with no Beginning) Yang is 9 (the End with no End) and 6 is the line in between that connects the two

I posted this in Bob's Intelligent design thread at some point.

The universe, as we know it, is only 13.8 billion years old and it is more than likely there was a whole different universe before our "big bang". A universe that expanded like a Red Giant star that imploded under it's own pressure before becoming a supernova (big bang) and since supernovae are the birthplace of all physical things in existence, including us, this idea might not be so farfetched as it sounds and it means that the same thing will happen to our current universe eventually. (don't wait for it lol). It also means that the Big Bang wasn't the beginning nor the end, but rather just another event in history. It is a perpetual cycle and people might eventually be able to understand all these phenomena and events, but not the Driving Force behind it. that remains the Mystery we call God.

Everything we know happens in cycles, big and small.

This is also the main reason why there is (or shouldn't be rather) no conflict between Science and Religion ("Religion" means nothing more and nothing less than worshiping (or being devoted to) God.)

None of this is proof of an afterlife though if you ask me. If you want to proof an afterlife, you need to proof that human beings are spiritual beings. If not, we just die and fade away like everything else in the universe

 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

Supernatural card? You devil you!

 

Geordie Gardiner

8 Years Ago

Would Bram Stoker be regarded as a God by blood suckers?

 

Andy Lloyd

8 Years Ago

Probably not. But I think there is something to paranormal phenomena. Plenty of people I know (and trust) have experienced inexplicable psychic events, and I've had a few odd experiences, too. Perhaps there are laws of physics we have yet to appreciate which explain such events - multiple dimensions, quantum coupling, that sort of thing. I've also always liked the idea of Gaia, as well as a collective unconscious. But an intelligent creator? Probably not.

 

Rudy Umans

8 Years Ago

Intelligence is a human measure that does not apply to the Creator.


I don't think they like Bram Stoker either. Blood suckers like to live in the shadows and he pulled them out.

 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

Hello Andy, so thrilled you joined us. I agree the law of physics, we have yet to know the expanse of it. The collective unconscious, could you expand on that? It is something I have been thinking about personally.

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Hi Andy.. if you would, please give a little background on Gaia... I know I could google it, but I think I am not the only one who isn't fully aware of Gaia. thanks.

 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

You did too google Bob! :) oh wait, (:.....

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Huh??? ;O)

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

After working sixteen years in nuclear spectroscopy I learned basically there is no smallest particle, we keep discovering smaller and smaller ones. The smaller the mass, and the more unstable, means a larger impact to you and I. On the other hand, there is no end or boundaries to our very fierce universe. Maybe you all have a different view but the fact is there is no beginning or end in space OR matter even where smaller and smaller particles exist.

You read the results of what others have done in terms of science, but there is no discipline in that. When we are preoccupied with what we think we know, we never stop to think about what we should be studying rather than speaking about...I'm no different by the way. I do science everyday and only have more questions about what I'm doing. I like to have an open mind.

How can you know anything about an afterlife? Well you can look at the evidence openly. Many people across the globe have had near death experiences and past life memories and there is a lot of data out there that supports an afterlife, and there is overwhelming evidence for psychic and preternatural experiences. You don't want to have one of these...but you can research this stuff. And when you do this, you'll become more sensitive to things. It's innate in all of us and being creative makes one much more highly aware of their surroundings even when we cannot see everything.

I believe one of the biggest shocks people have, believers and non believers alike, is when they die and still have the feeling of consciousness and that there are other being/s out there. I also believe that when people create a comfortable religion that helps them with death, there is probably a shock at some point that the comfy religion is just smoke in mirrors. So what lies ahead for you and me? One thing is for sure, we will find out soon enough. My suggestion is that you keep an open mind, and

on that note, enjoy your life.

 

Andy Lloyd

8 Years Ago

Aye, I agree that it is best to keep an open mind. Out of Body Experiences and Near Death Experiences offer us a glimpse of life beyond, and I guess the argument there is at what point the brain dies, and whether it is simply propelling us into an ecstatic dream state at the point of death (as some kind of coping mechanism?) or whether there really is a journey beyond ( c.f. the Bardo Thodol of the Buddhists, for instance).

I also agree about science, which, as far as I can tell, has revealed a Universe that is essentially confused by itself. By that, I mean that the Universe gives us different answers depending upon what questions we ask, and sometimes they conflict. Maybe my agnosticism simply parallels the Universe's own.

So, Gaia is a concept suggested by (the still living) scientist James Lovelock. My description of it won't be as accurate as Google/Wikipedia, but what I take from it is that the Earth contains a kind of living biosphere which has an inter-connected quality about it that some might describe as spiritual. It is self-correcting, attempts to attain an overall balance and encompasses 'mind'. Maybe such a concept it simply a more scientific re-packaging of old pagan concepts about gods and their association with planets/the Sun/the Moon.

But within such a model lies the potential (I think) for a collective unconsciousness, which was an idea proposed many years before by Carl Jung. In this concept, we all have deeper layers of spiritual awareness, many of which are subconscious (Jung moved beyond Freud's obsession with sex). From these depths of mental awareness emerge symbols and archetypes which are common to us all, and whose innate qualities we all recognise as centrally important to our own humanity. I guess an example might be the Madonna and Child symbolism, or the Returning King.

Combining these two conceptual frameworks offers a model where our deeper minds connect to that of the Earth, where we swim in a sea of very deep and meaningful transcendent symbolism. Our daily lives touch on these deep symbols unkowingly, providing meaning and emotional fulfillment.

But, I'm not wedded to these ideas (or, at least, my understanding of them). I just offer them as conceptual frameworks that appeal to me. I guess at their core they offer solutions from within ourselves which others might also ascribe to spiritual or even mystical frameworks. There's probably a lot of inter-meshing of ideas here, which New Age 'theology', like the ancient Gnosticism before it, likes to do.

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

Maybe afterlife is like aftertaste, you just linger......

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Thanks for that Andy... so now we can talk about Gaia and understand what concepts are being discussed. That is a big help thanks.

As most here would already guess ;O) ... I don't buy into any of those concepts, but am happy to discus them.

 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

Great posts Andy and Lisa!

 

Rudy Umans

8 Years Ago

Not sure why James Lovelock gets all the credit. The hypothesis that living and non-living parts of the Earth form a complex interacting system that can be thought of as a single organism is about as old as mankind or at least as old as astrology

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

Andy, with your knowledge of Gnosticism, you may appreciate this:
Sell Art Online

BTW: my brother is a Gnostic minister.

 
 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

@Bob, I was teasing you.

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Yea... I figured... LOL

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

For those like me who really do not know much about Gnosticism.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

You don't know Bob cuz it's a secret :-}

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Drew... there are no secrets... it is not in our nature to keep a secret.. eventually someone spills the beans. ;O)

We know what scientology's secrets are, we know what the Mormon's secrets are, we know what the Mason's secrets are, we know what the Vatican's secrets are... we know what area 51's secrets are,,

We are not sure about all of Google's secrets though ;O)

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

Google is the way that all our sins will be tracked............
And. You still don't know why it takes 5 conspiracy theorists to change a light bulb!

 

Bob Galka

8 Years Ago

Who told you it takes 5? whoever it was was lying.

 

Drew

8 Years Ago

That's a secret too

 

Lisa Kaiser

8 Years Ago

Thank you Sydne for starting this thread. I find it very interesting. I am fascinated by other people's belief systems and along with that these needs of belonging to a group of others who can identify with one another. Artists are funny types of people who are unusually sensitive, opinionated and unique.

 

Sydne Archambault

8 Years Ago

Yes they are! And your welcome Lisa!

 

This discussion is closed.