Question For Photographers Jpg Vs Png Files

PNG cannot save IPTC details I understand but jpg does so I always use jpg after filling out my IPTC area

I just check my Meta data on the PNG and its all there ? is that what you mean by IPTC

I don't agree that sharper is always better .... but .png can save a transparent background, jpg can't do that.

I always use JPEG, never have problems with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Network_Graphics

Or do you mean PSD? Thatīs totally different.

Almost 99.9% of my uploads are .png. It is "my" opinion that the colors stay more vibrant - but then - WDIK.

IPTC - haven't a clue what you are talking about - I looked it up - and I still have no clue - but I looked at this site - still clueless about why it's important: http://www.photome.de/

I just Googled it, and here is what I found:

http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/glossary/f/metadata.htm

IPTC is one of two of the most commonly used metadata formats that allows users to add their own descriptive information within a digital photo or image file. This metadata might include the characteristics of the photo, copyright information, a caption, credits, keywords, creation date and location, source information, or special instructions.

... not a big concern of mine either. I use .png whenever I can do so within the megabyte limits of FAA. When I cannot, I use .jpeg

It would be great, as other sites do, have the opportunity for customers to decide the background color offered by FAA.

By providing a PNG file with a transparent background this could be readily done.

PNG is good if you have a cut out image because it saves transparencies, but due to size restrictions are totally pointless for this site. jpg is better because it compresses smaller where as png does not. i don't think you can save itpc data in a png. in any case if you were to upload a cut out to another site it can be used that way. i only send jpg.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

I generally use JPEG here so I can add title, description and keywords to the IPTC information and it will be there already filled out after I upload it. You can also put your copyright on there. I use PNG files sometimes on other POD sites, especially if I am making a repeating pattern. That way I can leave the background transparent so the customer can change the color to suit their taste.

OK it looks like Photoshop saves the meta data in the PNG but FAA doesn't import it like it does a JPG. I can see where that could save some time.

You can send PNG, files to FAA if you want, but they will immediately convert them to JPG anyway. So it really is a non issue.

IPTC = International Press Telecommunications Council

The IPTC standard for images is a set of common metadata fields that nearly all DAM (digital asset management) software supports. Both .jpg and .tif files support it as these are the most common file formats used by the industry (printing, photography, graphic design, etc.). PNG isn't used commonly. It was intended to replace GIF files without the licensing issues, but never completely caught on.

Here's the advantage, fill in the Title, Description, and Keyword fields, and when you upload to FAA, all of the corresponding fields associated with your image will be be filled for you. Best of all you can use your DAM software to search any of the metadata fields.

PNG does not support metadata without using XMP sidecar files, which are a royal pain to deal with.

For me the needs of organizing and searching through thousands of files trump the small visual advantages of using PNG. What would be more important to me is to see if the PNG prints that much better.

I thought I read somewhere that FAA converts the PNG's to JPG's for printing anyway. If that's the case, then uploading in PNG is pointless.

Also, on some images, I have a hard time getting under the 25mb limit with a JPG, so PNG doesn't work at all for me.

They are converted, yes

GIMP gets advanced Exif, XMP, IPTC metadata support


http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/gimp-gets-advanced-exif-xmp-iptc-metadata-support

Sorry, I really donīt want to be rude, but I canīt believe that people who sell pictures online do not know the basics about file formats or things like IPTC.

A lot of us are into the art & creating of the images, not so much the technical aspects.

Tracey, that might be true, but if you want to sell things on a certain plattform like the internet, you should know the basics.

well if they are converting them anyway then there's no point in using anything but JPG, thanks for the info

IPTC is not basic. It is obscure. If you have never needed it, then why be concerned about it now?

I also do not mean to be rude, but what artist should really care about IPTC?

I can drive a car with expert precision, but to do this, I do not need to know how to rebuild the engine.

This is the beauty and the mystery of technology: We can be fragmented in our use of it, ... as experts in our own particular special ways.

.... FAA .... will immediately convert PNG to JPG anyway.
I didn't know that. That's very valuable info. Thanks, Bob and Abbie.

Chuck,

The DAM amount of time that it takes to upload these DAM images should really benefit from using your DAM good idea,

DAM, just broke a nail...........

Rich

@Gary Langley

The PNG compression is fully lossless because it supports up to 48-bit true color or 16-bit grayscale. Saving, restoring and re-saving an PNG file will not degrade its quality, unlike standard JPG even at its highest quality settings. Although JPG's lossy compression can introduce visible artifacts they can be minimized with most editing programs and the file size even at high quality levels is much better than is with a lossless format like PNG. PNG does not support EXIF, IPTC or DC and the data won't show up after you have uploaded your file to FAA.
In addition, since FAA has 25MB per file upload limit (I believe) it is better to use JPG.

@Robert Kernodle
If you work with multiple agencies and need to enter the same date for each individual file over and over I would say it is a must have for every artist.

Immediately converts the .png to jpg? or converts it for printing? and if you don't save your files as png or tiff - if you saved as jpg - and you ever want to go use them again - won't you 'damage' the image, just a tiny - each time you open and save that file.

and quite frankly - I'm after the image - and I don't even really care what makes a camera tick. I have no use for any of the data associated with the image - as far as I can tell - I've never used it, as far as I know.

This conversation is about like the conversation between shooting RAW and JPG . If the meta data is important to you - ok - if it's not - ok.

Aha! I wondered when someone would mention RAW :D

Totally agree with you, Roy, Basically don't sweat the small stuff

- Richard Reeve
reevephotos.com

I think Colin has a point here. I don't think many know the basics of digital files and very important basic things when working on images with viewing at 100 percent, up-sizing, downsizing the right way when working on an image. Since I came from a traditional film background, and still use it, I always worked with tiffs only. If i sent any of the labs that I use a jpeg, they would have slapped me the next time they saw me.

Never heard of IPCT, but always open to learning something new.

I see so many discussions with links on marketing, but no links on sizing, working on, and getting the best out of an image. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that should come before marketing, if your truly interested in helping a newbie who is asking for a critique.

The way I see things going here and particularly on FAA's sister's/brother's site: Pixels.com, I've come to the conclusion that PNG will be used for what I believe is it's sole purpose.

Providing a transparent background.

How could someone provide a proper image for Mugs, Tote Bags, Christmas Ornaments, whatever, without a transparent background.?.

This is how I'm making the major bulk of my POD income...On other sites of course...Oh I must not forget the biggest seller..TEE SHIRT designs.

And It's perfectly fine with me if Pixels.com goes that way too.

IPTC is not basic. It is obscure.

@Robert, It's not obscure. Maybe to a digital artist like yourself, but not to most photographers. You do realize that when you fill in Title, Description, and keywords on FAA, you are already using IPTC fields? They are exactly the same thing. IPTC is not rocket science. Understanding f stops, aperture, and how they affect exposure is far more complicated than using IPTC fields. Moreover nearly every software editing and asset management package supports it. There are so many advantages to using the fields, why not learn how to use them? In less than 5 minutes you can be using the metadata fields in your images.

@Roger, I believe you hit on a great reason to use PNG for certain images.

Does it help with sales?

IPTC Craig? Probably not directly. But it certainly helps with managing thousands of images. Moreover it doesn't cost anything extra.

Why hasn't anybody brought the real issue? Anybody that sells images a lot and a lot of the same images should be more concerned about FAA and them re-using the same jpeg file,over and over,rather than some file that oince it's worked on, it sits forever in a hard drive someplace on your computer?

Rich

Rich, I'm not clear what you're asking. You can print an image from the same .jpg a thousand times and the source file remains the same so long as it's not being edited and re-saved. And when printing there should be no reason to re-save the file.

For those with a real interest in these kind of details I highly recommend you see if your public library has a copy of...

The Digital Negative by Jeff Schewe

Chuck,

Thanks, I think I might have known that, but hey, I'm glad to just remember stuff at all, like today is Wednesday, stuff like that!

Rich

Your meta data is already there, your camera saves it with the image, Date Time, Camera, lens, exposure, even the Model and serial number of your camera, its there, you can also add the subject name and keywords to the image then FAA imports it when you upload the image so some of the work is already done, also handy when searching for an image if you have several 100 gig to search thru, its just another Tool for you to use or not your choice. apparently PNG doesn't save it with the image. if you use save for web as JPG then the file is even smaller and the meta data is removed. I shoot RAW then edit and save as JPG for FAA, so I keep my original image untouched.

I still shoot with a slide FILM camera. The digital conversion comes AFTER this fact. IPTC data is irrelevant to me. What I enter in the data fields at FAA is for a precise reason, related to getting catalogued on THIS website specifically.

I keep up with my images by file name and appearance. Again, IPTC data would be of no use to me.

... obscure, for my needs, ... for sure.

Donīt mix up EXIF and IPTC.

EXIF: You donīt have to do any thing. EXIF data is automaticly recorded by your (digital) camera or scanner, like the lens, shutter speed, aperture, ...
IPTC: Data you have to add to your file, like your name, copyright information, location, description, keywords, ... This data is partly used by FAA.

You donīt have to use all IPTC fields. You can, e.g. only use the fields FAA uses. If you attach this information to the file on your computer, and not after uploading to FAA, you donīt have to do it again, when you upload it to another site. This data can also be used to prove your copyright, contact you, ... if this information is embeded in your file.

But you donīt have to to spend time with things like this, of course. Do it the old fashioned way, like itīs done since decades.

How much of a benefit REALLY is a copyright notice embedded invisibly in metadata?

Robert, you are not interested in using IPTC? Thatīs totally ok! I donīt want to convince you!

When I "discovered" the IPTC fields, it was amazing! It's part of the post processing I do on every image now. Do it in post and then load to FAA, Flickr or even Facebook and the fields are already populated, even has keywords!

And you can do this with any digital image, even a scan from a slide or print!