Question For Photographers

A copy of the finished piece? Don't think there is any "average" fee,unless both the photographer and the painter are big time!

(By the way,Phyllis, a little birdy told me that you have the new PSE13, would you like to start another thread and tell us about your expeience with this new program? I think you're coming from GIMP? Many here are in the same boat and would love to hear your thoughts!) Just between us, no one else will read this suggestion!

So, nope, no standard fee,

Rich

Phyllis,

I have given permission to two different people to paint a photograph I had taken. Both were friends of mine and I only asked for credit (painted from a photograph taken by Kathy K. McClellan) any time the painting was displayed, online and in a gallery.

They are both more accomplished in their artwork than I am in my photography so I felt like it was a honor that they wanted to use my work. I wouldn't know what to charge if it was not a friend.

Hopefully another photographer will have a more useful answer for you!

Kathy K. McClellan
http://keppenart.com

edit: See...I told you another photographer would have an answer for you and as always Mr. Rich the most helpful member arrived! :)

I don't charge a thing BUT the caveat is I don't allow print sales.

Rich, yes I do have a new PSE13 and I am just learning my way around it. I used to use Picassa to edit and that was sooo limited. So far, I love it but am afraid that I will have to play with it a bit more in order to start a thread on it. Why don't you start the thread and we can all weigh in on it especially since you were the person who suggested (and I thank you) that I go with that program.
Kathy, I too have given a few people some of my photos to paint and have been very pleased at what they did with them. There are a few photographers here that take the most amazing bird images, I am constantly blown away by them. I do not know how a photographer would feel if I approached them with that request. I usually take my own photographs and living in such a prize area for birds that is easy, getting the pose exact at what I would like to paint, not so easy!

It gets so complicated for me on the legal side because of my exclusivity with Getty companies. I could do it but unless it was an image I couldn't really license otherwise, I would have to charge a lot.

Like any licensing the range is broad and would depend on the photographer and the image.

I've given permission to three artists to paint my photographs and I didn't charge them anything because they were in the same gallery as I was. Two of them came up with paintings that looked quite different from my photographs but one was a very literal translation and we had both the photograph and her painting for sale in the gallery at the same time. My sister is a painter and of course I let her paint my photographs whenever she wants. I once had someone contact me asking my price to paint a photograph...he was going to enter his painting in a postage stamp competition. I went on an online forum and asked around and of course they came up with a very high price which I then quoted to the artist and that scared him off rather nicely! So sorry, I can't really answer your question but just thought I'd tell you about my experiences.

i'm the same with jc, it really depends what they plan on doing with the image. usually i offer it as a artist to artist thing. like it has to say my name and address some place. it can't be sold as stock of any kind, and only the one painting can be sold. though i did say yes to one person on here, in general i don't know how to charge it, and then there would still be stipulations. i've had people use my art for paintings, wood burning and a tattoo.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

JC, that would be right so that it would not compete with your own sales. The "bird" photos that I am thinking about would be in my new series "Moon Over Mississippi" so they would have my own background added.

I had a painter ask and I allowed him to use it for free with credit given ala what Kathy said. It helped in my mind that he was a watercolor painted, so it would not be photo-realistic.

So what would you guys think if you were approached by a painter with that question? Would it upset you or would you be flattered? As stated above, I usually use my own photos but am at a loss for the next painting that I have in mind for my series. (I would never ask to use something for free!)

Why would I be upset that someone liked my work so much he wants to copy it in an entirely different medium? If you don't want to do it, just thank the photog and say "no, thanks." If you want to charge, name a price.

Phyllis,
We live in the same area. I have photographs of pelicans and seagulls that were taken with a 2.1mp camera and the files are not large enough to use here. But they might be just what you want to paint from. I'll private message you about this.

Kathy K. McClellan
http://keppenart.com

I would likely take it as a compliment if asked and would likely be inclined to to allow the artist to paint from my photo. I may ask for a small print when they are done :)

I see it as more like a beer and pizza relationship. While they are both food items, they are different. Painting and Photography are both art, but not necessarily competing for the same market. Many times, they compliment one another.

I agree with David, I would also take it as a compliment if asked. For me giving photo credit with my name would make me happy and of course a small print for my own enjoyment :)

I've been approached twice by painters, asking to paint my photographs. I'm always flattered, and I agreed both times, as long as they credited my original photograph, and did not sell prints, only the original painting. The last thing I want to do is compete with myself, lol! I did not charge a fee either time.

Phyllis, first hand I noticed your remark about Picassa, this is the only application I had ever used and yes does it limit you. Please share with me what is PSE13 is it an application you can upload or is this something you have to purchase for your computer. There is something I have noticed just dabbing here and there with other photo enhancements I prefer the technical color hues I get from Picassa.


I am certain you have walked around Jackson Square where world renown artist actually do commission work using photographs. There artistic technique is extraordinary. Charge them what you feel would be a fair and modest price to paint one of their pieces of work. In your particular instance as the professional artist you are I would have to say select a price which would be a fair price. The important thing to remember you can not copyright a species of animal and I think I am correct here. A photographer may own the rights to the actual photograph but to reproduce an insect or animal in another medium or by someone else in another medium. This is just an example is has no reference to your instance but I am sure it has occurred elsewhere .which would lead to another artist creating by drawing or by means of photography and duplicating in there work without permission.


I remember another Fine Art America member had commented on one of my photographs and requested permission to use my butterfly in one of her creations. Personally I did not mind at all if anything I was flattered first and secondly she asked. So I released to her confirmation allowing her to use my photograph by giving me full credits of her including my butterfly in one of her works of art which became one of her best sellers here at Fine Art America. Mind you she did not even have to ask because it was photograph of an insect and the fact could her using it without ever telling me be proven it was my photograph of a simple butterfly. The answer to that is no! My photograph may be a copy right of mine but the actually insect is not. And this was my decision in allowing her to duplicate my butterfly photograph image and incorporate into her masterful original painting. This was truly a wonderful experience for me and the artist!

Michael, yes, I did purchase the program when I purchased my new computer just recently. I am having a bit of a struggle learning all of the ins and outs of PSE13. Rich started a thread about it.
http://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2294765

Michael,

Photoshop Elements 13 or PSE13, is the "cheap" version of the big expensive $700+ Photoshop that most professionals use,graphic artists,etc. and for the vast majority of artists here, PSE13 is more than enough.

I have the full version of Photoshop,since when I had a studio and employees, that's what we needed. Now, PSE13 would be more than enough for me. It sells for around $70 or so, but can be found cheaper,

Come on over to the other thread, that Notorious B made me start and read up and/or ask questions,

Rich

Honestly, it depends on who's asking and what they plan to do with the image. I have shared photos with painters, but they're people I know well and trust. Their styles are also far enough removed from photo-realism that I'm not concerned about the competition with my photograph. I have always asked for posted credit, regardless; whether or not I charge monetarily is dependent on my relationship with them and whether or not I feel particularly generous at that moment. ;)

Painters usually buy a print or card and don't ask for permission. But the ones who are nice enough to, I ask them to buy a print or card and give me a credit whenever or wherever sold. I'm thankful they buy a print or card because many times (and I suspect overseas in the more unscrupulous countries), they just take a screen print and they are not going to care about permission or credits. I price my ONE card price higher than most just for that reason. I prefer they buy a print rolled in a tube.

You all are certainly giving me options to think on. The image that I am looking for in particular is a roseate spoonbill. I have a few photos that I could use but they are not exactly what I would like for my new series work.

Photographers deserve compensation from anyone who might benefit from the use of their work. As a bio illustrator I have paid out plenty to photographers as I cannot be everywhere for the visual data. As a rule though I like to use my own photographic data for art works.

Although I love the idea of sharing amongst my artistic colleagues, I would be extremely hesitant to ever allow someone to paint or recreate my photographs. However, I am a fine art photographer AND an artist, and I make digital and fine art from my photographs regularly. If I wasn't intending to turn my photos into fine art, I would probably be excited to see someone else do it. I would say I'd probably expect a percentage of sales of the finished product. Maybe 30% of the profits. I think that would be fair.

I always take my own photos for my painting reference but this time, I just do not have what I want. I have thousands upon thousands of bird photos but sometimes, you just need something other than what you have.

LOL Rich, just caught that Notorious B thing.... That is Ms. Notorious B to you sir!

Kathy McClellan was a sweetheart and allowed me to paint one of her wonderful photographs. I dedicate this painting to her. Thanks Kathy! (I will also get a better photo of it when it dries more!)

Phyllis,
Sorry that I did not have a photo of the roseate spoonbill you wanted. Actually I didn't read that particular post until today!

I want everyone here to know that Phyllis did an outstanding job capturing the essence of that pelican. He was Mad! That darn noisy bass boat kept getting closer and closer and he was not having any part of it. Shortly after snapping this photo he flew into the water and tried to lead us away from shore---most likely protecting a nest. Yes, we left him alone after that.

Great job, Phyllis and thank you for the opportunity to be of service to another artist who can do what I can't (paint).

Now.....to go find that spoonbill----I might call you when I find him, Phyllis!

Kathy

Such a fee would vary by photographer. I often give artists who actually ask permission for free, but with certain restrictions...

I also have thousands of unpublished images, so if you tell me species and pose, I may be able to furnish reference shots.

In every case, I require the artist to "reinterpret" the image, not merely do a purely realistic copy of the photo into their own medium.
In some cases, this includes digital media, as well. Here's an image of my Dad's (which I now own) which we allowed the rock group "Yes" to use for a poster and t-shirt for a "Yescapade" festival in California:

http://progedge.com/yescapade/rogerspage.htm

We also have photos in natural history museum exhibits, textbooks, and some specialized publications, all for free upon gracious request and negotiated restrictions and credits.

Just so all know, I painted the background very differently than Kathy's original photograph. As I call the process "Phyllisesque"...That way, she can still post the photo and neither painting nor photograph will compete with the other.
Also, if you read this Kathy, since we live only a few miles apart, as soon as the painting dries, it is yours as well. That was the little thank you that I have for you. (That is if you want it)
Since my work is pretty popular in our area, if you do not want it, you could always sell it! LOL

OMG

Phyllis,

You are too generous! Why would I not want it? I'll e-mail you later when I catch my breath. :)

Kathy

Just promise that you will never give it to goodwill!!!

This for me involves Rights Managed anymore. I used to allow this willingly, but it all depends on use, whose requesting, and compensation. The last one I asked for my choice of the first two paintings, signed of course. That hasn't yet happened.

Phyllis,

Goodwill....LOL....that's an easy promise to make!

Kathy

An established artist contacted me with that exact question,......here's what we did via an email agreement.

I supplied a low quality jpg to the artist to work on her painting from.

In turn,..... she agreed to pay me a 10% courtesy fee on her selling price,.....

Attached to the painting was a credit to me for the original photographic work,..including my FAA website information also affixed to the painting.

This same information also appears on her website when prospective buyers open and view that painting.

She actually got quite elaborate in her praise of my image.

Her large painted rendition is listed for $625.00

I have visited her website and the image is still posted for sale exactly as we had agreed.

I thought that it was fair and adequate exchange to facilitate her request and she agreed.

sorry posted on the wrong board...

Wow Marty, your images are spectacular, no wonder an artist wanted to paint one of them! I think you handled that request really well.

GillBillingtonArt.com