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Walter Holland

9 Years Ago

Self-doubt?

How large a part does self-doubt play in your ability to critically analyze your own art?

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R Allen Swezey

9 Years Ago

Turning 80 this year, I doubt that I can keep on creating, and selling as I have for the last 40 years.

It has been a three dimensional world...with actual touchable art.

And now, I wonder if I have the ability in these later years to make significant inroads in this two dimensional cyber world, I'm now dabbling in.

 

David Lane

9 Years Ago

It is the artist lot in life. One minute I love a piece I have done, the next I hate it. My work would never be seen by anyone if I let the self doubt win so I just say WTF and let it out there.

 

Joseph C Hinson

9 Years Ago

I never doubt myself. At least, I don't think I do. LOL

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

i don't have self doubt. i know if its bad or good. i can't be wishy washy about it. i see things scientifically, if it doesn't sell i stop making and and switch gears. if you are always making things there is no time for doubt.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Mary Bedy

9 Years Ago

I only have self-doubt about certain images. Then I will usually post them in my not for sale gallery and ask for opinions here. And I mean I want REAL opinions, not "oh that's nice". People are still afraid to say what they think (except you, Mike ;-), but who wants to post junk? I know when an image is good, but I have trouble figuring out when an image is really bad. I just stare at it and can't decide. I don't know if that's self-doubt or just not knowing....

 

Julia Hamilton

9 Years Ago

I agree with Mike. I have to decide which pieces are worth putting out there, and which should be deleted or covered with gesso. Either way, when I finish a piece, I need to start the next piece, which I usually have worked out in my head. Self doubt is not part of the process. If a piece isn't good, it's not because of self doubt, it's because it really isn't good. Accepting that I am not perfect is not the same as having doubt in my ability.

This is a good question Walter. Thanks for posting this thread.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

none, Walter.
A critique should not be based on feelings...It should be an objective assessment of the art.

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

1% Its the end result. Not some kind of inter turmoil. If I didn't think it was good, I wouldn't post it.

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

I have self doubt, but no inner turmoil. Or at least very little.

I use doubt as a tool for critiquing my work. That of course is not really self doubt.

It is more an extreme amount of critical thinking.

I then turn on a dime if I think a work is worthless or needs a different approach or whatever.

I dont let sales now have anything to do with where I will be three years from now.

I see every artist here as gambling on themselves. This has to cause a great deal of doubt for all of us.

Some of the more established artists have spoken up on this thread, but the less established artists
have a lot more commercially to worry about. Reality check.

Dave

 

Mary Bedy

9 Years Ago

@Marlene, that's easier said than done sometimes. I sometimes have an image that "speaks" to me, it's technically sound and the composition is good, but the colors are not optimal and it doesn't work in black and white. This is not where I have what I would call "self doubt", but doubt about the image itself and I sometimes can't separate the "it speaks to me" from "is is a good image?". I guess I would say it's not SELF doubt that holds me back sometimes as not being able to really critique the image in question objectively.

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

R Alleln Swezey

Turning 80 this year, I doubt that I can keep on creating, and selling as I have for the last 40 years.

It has been a three dimensional world...with actual touchable art.

And now, I wonder if I have the ability in these later years to make significant inroads in this two dimensional cyber world, I'm now dabbling in.

Today's BIG MYTH Mr. Swezey:

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks"

PS- I'm looking forward to still producing art when I'm 110.

 

Abbie Shores

9 Years Ago

A HUGE part. If you have no self doubt then I (personally) don't think you can grow and that doubt definitely overflows into my own critiques.

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Self doubt is disproportionate. I do not sell myself short, that is the reward of dealing with self doubt.

Any character analysis starts with the human being being a ball of anxieties. The first instinct is
to sell yourself short. To be right sized you dont do that. Self doubt and anxieties ride together.

Artists people have to manage themselves. Grow. No one escapes this job.

Dave

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

I haven't worked on a piece in quite awhile, but I know exactly what I didn't accomplish in every composition I've ever constructed. I smile and acknowledge everything I learned while working on something, and I go forward. Self doubt doesn't play a role, inability to achieve something does. Next time is always another opportunity to get it right!

 

Chuck Staley

9 Years Ago

In answer to the original question: "How large a part does self-doubt play in your ability to critically analyze your own art?"

Self-doubt plays no part as far as my work goes, and I'm not sure that I critically analyze any of my work.

I just do it. I enjoy doing it, and then I put it out there.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Mary,
the problem you describe is indeed, about one's ability to critique. When you like a piece but something is 'off', you need to figure out hat is off and that is an objective process, not a subjective one. Once all the kinks are worked out, you will love the piece in question.

Growth happens because one sticks with his art and hones it. Self doubt IMO doesn't lead to more work, it stymies an artist. That's when they start looking for a muse, or concrete help, or freeze up or just walk away. Every series I have grown into, I have GROWN into...through the natural process of moving forward because the present series is played out, examined enough.

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

I never doubt that I can continually learn and improve. No doubt I will try new things, experiment and play.

 

K L Kingston

9 Years Ago

Claude Monet:

"The more I live, the more regret...how little I know."

"I am very depressed and deeply disgusted with painting. It is really a continual torture."

"I hope that something will come out of so much effort..."

Sounds like growing pains to me!

 

Roger Swezey

9 Years Ago

Bill T,

I'm the same guy as R Allen

Creating and selling sculptures at 80 ain't the real problem...It's the schlepping the can be a bit tiring.

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

9 Years Ago

The term self-doubt has me confused. If you're talking about taking risks; challenging your weaknesses and fears. Then yes, certainly this is the path of life and growth. But if you're talking about self-doubt in not knowing if it's working or not (you might not know how to change it to working, but know if working) then never. Very much the scientific analysis like Mike described. Neither do I ever doubt that there is a solution, whether I can figure it out or not. So past failure never justifies not trying or believing. Only my own effort and commitment keeps me from my solutions, I'm sure of it.
-- mary ellen anderson

 

Walter Holland

9 Years Ago

Lots of interesting observations, and statements. Thank you all for your input.

I believe that self-doubt is a part of human nature. It resides in all of us, albeit some deny it.

Before I make any postulations on my own thoughts regarding self-doubt, and what part it may, or may not, play in my ability to analyze my own work I will reply to some of the previous comments.

“A critique should not be based on feelings...It should be an objective assessment of the art.” --- Marleen Burns.

As I see it art is all about emotion. Specifically, the emotion it brings forth for the viewer. If one disregards emotion when creating a piece, how would one elicit emotion from the viewer?

Kelly Lee wrote, “Self doubt doesn't play a role, inability to achieve something does.”

In answer I would ask, does not the inability to achieve something, create at least a bit of self-doubt?
My two favorite responses to this thread are these. (
And no. I am NOT 'sucking up' to Abbie. I believe she will verify that the only fear I have of speaking my mind to her is that I may go a bit overboard and face yet another ban... :-> )

“A HUGE part. If you have no self doubt then I (personally) don't think you can grow and that doubt definitely overflows into my own critiques.” --- Abbie Shores.

“I never doubt that I can continually learn and improve. No doubt I will try new things, experiment and play.” --- Edward Fielding

In the end I suggest that the most important question here is not about 'having' self-doubt, it is about we handle it.

 

Mary Bedy

9 Years Ago

Well another thing to consider is when someone is just starting out painting and/or taking "professional" quality photographs, they may be full of excitement and think what they are creating is wonderful and will garner a lot of praise. Then they come to a web site like this, ask for a critique and get (hopefully politely) told that "you really need to work on this and that". That, I think, is where self doubt is generated and the person either sulks off and stops creating, or they suck it up and try to learn.

I sucked it up and tried to learn, just like everyone here in this discussion, probably. Self doubt can be a good motivator to improve or it can kill the desire to create. It can be used to an advantage - like when I doubt an image is good and I ask others here - they usually confirm what I was thinking anyway and tell me it's crap. I appreciate that. It doesn't give me "self" doubt, it confirms that I (generally) know what I'm doing now.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Walter, I am talking about critiquing one's own work....not when an artist is creating it.
I welcome responses from you about that.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Hello Walter,

No to self doubt! I've been taught to be a problem solver. In one moment I may not have the ability to illustrate something I'm aiming for, but sooner or later I'll get there. It's a matter of perseverance.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

Self doubt simply cannot exist in the cockpit of a plane flying low level, air refueling, in combat or an emergency like your engine fire. People in military pilot training that have self doubt have it trained out of them or they do not make it through.

That past life still holds true for me. I may question whether something will sell or may well look at my work and know I can do better but I do KNOW I can do better and improve.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

It's good to see that so many of our faa artists don't lack confidence in themselves or their abilities.

 

Alfred Ng

9 Years Ago

Well, just look at some of the other threads here, I think it is the opposite, over confidence affect ones' inability to critically analyze their own art.

 

Mary Bedy

9 Years Ago

You have a point, Alfred. We've all seen the new person who comes in and brags loudly about their art being the greatest thing since sliced bread and when we look at it, it's dismal. If anyone dares call them out - they just leave. They never improve that way.

 

April Moen

9 Years Ago

I don't doubt that I can create good artwork, but I know I don't hit the target I'm aiming for every time. And if I don't hit it, I don't post it. I set it aside and come back to it later with new eyes. A light bulb usually comes on then, and I'll either finish the piece or trash it. I usually don't need anyone else's opinion to know if a piece works or not unless it is something outside my comfort zone that I've never tried before. But even then, I have to take ownership of the piece. If I'm not satisfied with the end results, I won't be proud to have my name on it, and it won't end up here.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

To me, confidence is based on reality, not one's over inflated false sense of self and ability.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

Oh, my confidence level was just as high when I was presenting "art" that Mike Savad would have chewed up and spit out.

Confidence doesn't mean you don't listen to critique. I take every critique seriously but then decide what and which critiques I can actually use to improve me work.

 

Kelley Lee McDonald

9 Years Ago

Dear JC,

Boy, are you right! My father was a major/pilot in World War ll. No room for self doubt!

When I was kid I drew horses nonstop because I wanted one, not because I was an artist. Eventually, horses were in my life full time. I'm not an artist, but I am creative.

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

yay my name was mentioned...


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

You know you can read people in person very differently than on a message board. Many of you dont
see self doubt and critiquing your work as the same thing. You are right. If you deeply like the creative
process self doubt does not necessarily have to be a factor. But in person talking to artists self doubt
is OFTEN the rule. Last night I met up with a friend/artist for the first time in three months. He has seen
my roses. So I asked him what he thought. He told me that if he had not read the name of the art pieces
he would have needed time to figure out what they were. Of course those are thumbnails, but he is right.

I said to him thanks for the criticism. He was not happy. He said he was not critical. I had to remind him
that I dont mind criticism at all, only he minds it.

One of my defining experiences in a studio classes at UCONN with about ten kids in the class drove home
a major lesson in my life. We were given a few constructs to build something out of cardboard and paint it.
I missed the whole idea involved. I just did not think anything through.

I made a two level piece of work. I made something like a shack on top of a big broad piece of cardboard.
I stapled the shack down. I painted, pasteled, penciled, stuff on this really bad creation.

We were then told surprisingly to put our creations on the wall. As I tried to tack mine up, the shack fell off
the underlying cardboard. The shack was hanging by one side up on the cardboard.

The surprises did not stop there. For the first time we were to critique our work in public. Each of us, the ten students,
had to get up and discuss the good and bad about our piece. What were we trying to do.

My turn was number 5. I got up. I had made a couple of mental notes. I began to discuss every single thing
on all sorts of levels as to how this piece failed. Not just a few things. I ran this piece into hades.

When I was done I was very un-bothered. This was the first time in my life that extreme criticisms meant doing better
the next time.

As I went to sit down again, the other nine students were bitterly complaining. I could hear them all basically saying
the same thing, "if this is what it takes to be an artist, I do not want to be an artist". My professor had to calm them
and with a few words tell them, "you will face worse than this as an artists from the public. You have to be able
to take it".

I learned somethings I will never forget with that failure.

Dave

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

I haven't ask for a critique since I was an art student. During those years I was learning HOW to critique my own work.
Ultimately, no one else's opinion matters as long as my skills are well honed and I can look at myself in the mirror and admit I just painted a piece of crap.
Lots of people have their opinions about my work and that's fine and I'm not interested. Some think this atittude is cocky, but it's nothing but appropriate confidence in myself, my work and my ability to critque my own work.

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

If I meet someone on Twitter that I dont know, but expresses some interest I ask questions.
I try to draw them in time wise and thought wise into my work. If I see they are
interested I ask them to join my email list. I dont act like a used car salesman
and say are you buying today. So few people on Twitter stop to say anything about
another person's work that any contact of this sort is valuable if you make some worth both
for the viewer's and the artist's time.

So I ask for critiques. It is a slightly hollow experience. I am not trying to get better or worse LOL
artistically with their comments. I am trying to gauge my audience participation in very different ways.

Dave

 

Alfred Ng

9 Years Ago

Marlene, I totally agree with you, During my art school years, I also learn to look at my works objectively with critical eyes. I never ask for critique either. I am my toughest critic.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Dave, you aren't asking for a critique, you are asking for an opinion.

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago


Roger Swezey


Bill T,

I'm the same guy as R Allen

Creating and selling sculptures at 80 ain't the real problem...It's the schlepping the can be a bit tiring

Mr.Swezey-
Roger that! No pun intented. :) Maybe in 12 years I'll feel the same.







 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago


Mike Savad

1 Day Ago

yay my name was mentioned...

Mike Savad
Mike Savad
Mike Savad

Just wanted to make your day, Mike. Take care.

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

Self doubt. Self confidence. Self image. Dr. Maxwell Maltz had much to say about these and, in my opinion, had some very interesting and helpful insights into the subject in his book "Psycho-Cybernetics" written back in the 60's (updated in 2000) but very relevant today and it can be a very valuable tool for artists/creatives. Check it out.

 

David Bridburg

9 Years Ago

Marlene,

You are right, I am only asking for opinions.

I expect to try and ask the critics for critiques in the next few years.

Why back off the real job, even if it is some time in the future?

BTW, even getting a critic to write that he hates my work would be a huge positive.

Dave

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

David Bridburg

" I learned somethings I will never forget with that failure."


Great point, David. I think it was Michael Jordan who said "I've learned more from my mistakes (failures) than I have from my successes."

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

Sorry hit submit button twice As Rosanna Rosannadana use to say "Never mind."

 

Chuck De La Rosa

9 Years Ago

I stopped asking for regular critiques a long time ago. There are only a handful of people I personally know, and who know photography far better than I do, that I trust who will actually not only tell it like it is, but will also not berate me while doing it.

Still, when I'm out shooting I almost always know what I'm getting when I snap the shutter. I know what I want that shot to look like when it's printed. I don't shoot 100 shots in an hour. I work a scene and only shoot a few frames. That doesn't mean I'm always right. When all is said and done I'm the only one I have to please, and an awful lot of what I shoot gives me great displeasure. Every shot is a lesson in itself. Of late I'm finding myself going back and studying what didn't work and analyzing why it didn't. If I never create art at all, the journey itself and growth that results is still worth it.

 

Walter Holland

9 Years Ago

That is an interesting perspective, JC, yet in an air emergency I believe the “fear factor” would be more relevant than the kind of self-doubt issue I am addressing here.

 

Tammy J Bailey

9 Years Ago

Friends,
I am probably one the most "novice" artists on FAA. The most studying of art I have done is visiting galleries/art centers and reading books. I shoot with my i-phone primarily. My art comes straight from my heart, leaving no room for doubt--to me it is beautiful, but it doesn't sale. I welcome any critiques--am I wasting my time with art (ie-should I invest more time/money/education) as I love photography so--but honestly don't know what exactly what to do with my passion for art, or where to begin. Artists such as Mike Savad astound me with their work and knowledge. I am open to work critique and suggestions on where to even begin. Artists, help me understand where to even start, please and thank you. I do realize I like saturating colors--I slightly like living in technicolor, what can I say.

 

Roy Erickson

9 Years Ago

I don't understand where "self doubt" comes into play when taking a critical eye to ones own work. It's good, bad, ugly - but it doesn't mean it won't sell.

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

T. Bailey
"I welcome any critiques--am I wasting my time with art (ie-should I invest more time/money/education) as I love photography so--but honestly don't know what exactly what to do with my passion for art, or where to begin."

Not necessarily a critque, but just my reaction from what I see on your site. A famous English artist once stated at a forum I attended, "There are 3 things that are of utmost importantance when painting (insert Photograghy or ?). They are... composition, compositiion and composition. Everything else can be fixed. But if you you don't start out with a good composition, no matter how well you paint it, the bad composition will always be there." In my opioion, you have a decent eye for composition, Tammy. So why not start there and build on it. Oh and never stop being a student.

 

Tammy J Bailey

9 Years Ago

Thanks for your suggestion Bill-- I will add that to my studies. I appreciate you taking the time to give your advice and candid input--it is much appreciated. :)

 

Roz Abellera

9 Years Ago

A little self doubt is a good thing. If you think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread you'll become complacent, rest on your laurels and never evolve. If you fear that you might not be good enough, you'll always try to improve and be willing to learn to get better.

It's good to have a little bit of it but not too much to the point that you're scared to try anything. So use self doubt as your fuel to feed the fire inside.

--Roz Abellera

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

I have to disagree, Roz.
I don't think I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also, after 40+ as a professional artist never doubt if I can paint a great painting, meet a deadline, create something wonderful.
I always strive to create something new, exciting, stimulating and none of that is fueled by doubts that I'm not talented or don't have the skills.

 

Walter Holland

9 Years Ago

“I don't understand where "self doubt" comes into play when taking a critical eye to ones own work.”

Thank you, Roy. This is precisely the point of this thread. To examine one's self in order to determine if there are under-laying psychological phenomenon that may, or may not, skew our outlook toward our own work.

And with that said, I am now forced to re-evaluate my own comment regarding JC's air emergency analogy. I need go give this a bit more thought.

@Marlene: It is always nice to see an artist with such confidence, while at the same time lacking hubris.

Yet, your remarks lead me to this question. Are you one of the lucky few that are simply devoid of self-doubt?

@ Roz. Very well stated. I concur.

 

Bill Tomsa

9 Years Ago

Roz-
"If you fear that you might not be good enough, you'll always try to improve and be willing to learn to get better."

One point, Roz, about part of that thought- "you'll always try to improve". Hmmm, I have to disagree on the "always" part. A well-known mid-century plastic surgeon launched a decades long study of why some of his patients had positive reactions to corrective surgery done on their faces while others showed no improvement to their out look as a result of almost identical surgery. His conclusions, documented in his book, came to deal with self image and how it affects every aspect of our lives. My point is that it depends, mostly, on the individual's self image as to how they will react to self doubt. A person with a positive self image will most certainly react as you described. But another artist with a negative self image may not and may even be consumed by it. Does Vincent van Gogh ring a bell? Note: when I speak of self image I am not talking about 'ego" which is different (and covered in the book as well).

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

Only time I ask for a critique is when I submit something to a curated boutique stock agency. And then even then I don't take rejection as the final say as I know its only one person's (finely honed) opinion with a bias for a certain market.

Sometimes you have to be brave enough to toss out your stuff and start over. I know my stuff from 1o years ago and older is mostly crap. And I also know my best work is ahead of me.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

I don't think so, Walter, unless you assume that all artists are weighing in on this discussion...my favorite and most respected) faa artists never come into the threads.

 

Jani Freimann

9 Years Ago

I know when a piece of art is going to work or not. No doubt there.

Edit: I doubt myself a little when I start something new (blank canvases are scary to me for some reason) but it doesn't last long because I don't like how it feels. So I guess then I turn it into fuel.

It seems to me that any doubting is usually when facing something unknown. Doubt causes helplessness and anxiety. That is why I am a person who learns things to death. Hit it from every angle and if something fails, do it until it is no longer a failure. I never ever quit (although I've threatened to). Do it until it's done right. I have to be pushed out to stop doing something; which has happened to me a couple of times. I know I can do anything I put my mind to.
That thinking helped me when I was a kid who wanted a fort. I asked my mom for a hammer and nails and went to the wood pile for the other materials. My goal: to build it so it stood freely and kept out the rain. My goal was achieved. I made one I could have my horse in and one that was just right for two people -- me and my brother. Were they pretty? To me they were.

Nothing like the feeling of accomplishment. Doubt doesn't give you that.

Another example from my adult years:
My sewing machine was not working properly. The top thread was tight and the bottom thread was loose. I worked on fixing that by dialing the screw that controlled making the threads even with a tiny srewdriver backwards and forwards, putting it all back together and test sewing repeatedly. It was very tedious work that I had never done before. Was it the hard way? Most definitely. I had only just started sewing and barely knew how to sew. I worked on it from 10 at night until 4 in the morning. I fixed it and learned a lot about my machine and the sense of accomplishment was priceless.
Doubt turns to fear which turns to do nothing. I didn't doubt that I could fix the problem, but knew it could be done if I worked at it.
Later, my mother asked me why I didn't just take it in to get fixed. I said, 'then I wouldn't have learned how to do it.'
This is also how I approach my artwork.

You can do anything that you put your mind to. You really can. That is one of my mottos in life.

Edit: So, yes, I am amoung the artists who have experienced self-doubt many times, but find it dibilitating so I push it out of my life by putting on my Nike's and ' just do it'. There's always a reward in the end for being a doer instead of a doubter.

 

Lois Bryan

9 Years Ago

I just did a blog that is SORT of about self doubt ... more like ... well ... read it if you like ... it's titled: OH WHAT THE HECK

 

Ana Belle

9 Years Ago

always but not now...

 

Jane McIlroy

9 Years Ago

Self doubt isn't always a bad thing. There are times when a piece of work just isn't that good...

 

Paul Cowan

9 Years Ago

I think the question is backwards - it should be "how much does critiquing your own work affect your self-doubt". It's awareness of at least some of the shortcomings in my work which fuels my self-doubt and makes me want to improve. There have been times when it has been very frustrating because I know I have got something wrong and I can't make it come right - but eventually I "get it". I don't know if self-doubt makes me underestimate some of my work but right now, of hundreds of thousands of images I've shot, there is only one that really pleases me and reflects the standard I would want to maintain.

 

Karyn Robinson

9 Years Ago

I feel I can honestly appraise my own work. I know when I've done something well. Self- doubt comes inro play when others comment on my work. I almost always discount the kind remarks of others thinking, "they're just being nice." That's why I love having my work professionally critiqued. They don't worry about my feelings and give it to me straight.

 

Lara Ellis

9 Years Ago

I suffer from self doubt about my photography for sure but at other times I have great confidence in my ability to create beautiful photos. I just went through this with wedding photos. I recently did free wedding photos for a family member. I went through extreme self doubt and worry that they wouldn't like the photos.I think the self doubt served to my advantage though as it motivated me to work extra hard to make sure they were beautiful photos that they would cherish for years to come. After editing them for about a month and then finally getting them all to her, she was delighted with them and her and her new husband sent a wonderful card with an unexpected thank you check to show their gratitude. That helped to boost my confidence again.My sales have been down for a while and that has been fueling my self doubt but that being said it's also fueled me to to learn how to take better phtos with better composition and interest. I'm getting a new lens today so I've got even more motivation to get back on the horse and create some beautiful photos that people will want to hang on their walls.

 

Walter Holland

9 Years Ago

So sorry that I have been negligent in following my own thread.

I will try to comment on the replies everyone has been kind enough to make. Soon. I promise.

 

This discussion is closed.