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Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

Who cares what he says.

Does MOMA have a photography collection? I think so.

...

I do agree with this in relationship the the price paid "Someone has been very foolish with their money, mistaking the picturesque for high art."

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

sounded rather mean spirited to me. I never heard of him, so why should his words be taken as truth?

Rebecca

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

Also his conclusion is rather good -

"If this is the most valuable “fine art photograph” in history, God help fine art photography. For this hollow and overblown creation exposes the illusion that lures us all, when we’re having a good day with a good camera – the fantasy that taking a picture is the same thing as making a work of art."

 

Kathy K McClellan

9 Years Ago

IMHO this is one man's opinion of one photograph.

Yes, everyone can own and use a camera. That does not mean everyone who takes pictures with a camera is an artist.

Just like everyone can brush or throw paint on a canvas but that does not mean everyone who brushes or throws paint on a canvas is an artist.

 

Mike Savad

9 Years Ago

he sounds a bit jealous. if he's taking pictures with an iphone - he's not really an artist of course there are arguments there as well. and the camera didn't take the image on its own. it's a nice image, i don't think it's worth that much, i think that was an insanely expensive piece and it shows the crazy world we are in. i hope it at least came in a nice box.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

 

Peter Hogg

9 Years Ago

There are many horrible pieces of non photographic art that are sold for outrageous prices so it's just an opinion. Peter Lik to his credit has marketed himself quite well and his work is wonderful... If someone were to come in and see an image on a wall and say that piece is beautiful and they loved it and then find out it was a photograph would they not like it. Many wonderful artists today start from photos and because the final is not a photo does that makes those final images wonderful. Don't think so.... Just a jealous critic who has an opinion. However do agree the photo of Peter's is not worth anywhere near the price that was paid and usually those that buy at these prices have money to burn which inflates a piece of art which then does benefit Peter. Sure don't fault him though as we all would love to sell an image for that price.

 

Newd PhotoWerks

9 Years Ago

I have heard this argument before. I respond--does the creation of an art begin in the mind's eye or does it need the hand/eye coordination to make it art? Is photography less of an art form than painting?

 

Patricia Strand

9 Years Ago

Good point, Edward, that there wouldn't be photography collections in museums if it weren't considered art.

I may be the only one, but this photograph blows me away, and I didn't even see the "ghost" at first. First of all, it's different because it is not a color image of a scene that's been photographed before, and almost always in color. It almost looks like a negative image, but not quite, and that is what intrigues me. It has an ethereal quality, aside from the ghostly shape (which to me is irrelevant). It's beautiful. I don't have 6.5 Million, but if I were a billionaire, I'd want this.

Yeah, sour grapes! Save us from writers like this.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

I could opine about many of the most expensive painters in the same way. I don't appreciate much of what is considered high art. But in the end, it is simply my opinion.

 

Very entertaining..............."Yet a closer look at Phantom reveals exactly the opposite. This record-setting picture typifies everything that goes wrong when photographers think they are artists. It is derivative, sentimental in its studied romanticism, and consequently in very poor taste. It looks like a posh poster you might find framed in a pretentious hotel room." Love that !! So, whoever bought this has pretentious hotel-room taste, lol.

It's a joke!

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

I get the impression that he was really angry over the price which was paid, but that's up to the buyer. I would guess that he's never sold anything close to that amount. And I personally think it's on the ridiculous side as far as a price of an artwork, but it doesn't excuse jealousy for writing something that insults every photographer under the sun, and makes him look small.

Rebecca

 

William Norton

9 Years Ago

Jonathan Jones is entitled to his opinion but when people think you are stupid you should't open your mouth and remove all doubt!

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

Here is what I

The art critic. One who has no ability to create but knows how to type and inflame the masses. I suppose that is a talent in and of itself thus preventing me from calling Mr. Jones a no talent hack.

The views on photography as art vary but one would think a paid art critic would understand it takes more than a good camera and luck to produce artistic images on a consistent basis.

Is Peter Lik worth the price paid? He was to that particular buyer. Lik does have nice work and is a spectacular marketeer. That is really no different than many of the top earning living painters, is it? Why does one painter get millions for a particular work while another with similar talent and style struggle to put food on the table?

In my opinion Antelope Canyon is over shot and over done. I wouldn't shoot it because there are thousands of other similar images that would be just as good that I would have to compete against. However, I don't have the name recognition that Peter Lik has. As Mr. Jones should well know by now selling fine art for high prices is all about name recognition and and Lik has it.

I make my living selling fine art photography. Perhaps it is more along the lines of home decor than fine art in Mr Jones's eyes. Perhaps I simply have a nice camera and get lucky a lot. Either way, my clients appreciate it and pay me for my art even if I am a mere photographer.

JC Findley

 

Barbara Leigh Art

9 Years Ago

The academic college that I went to considers anything that is for aesthetic decor as fine art, which photography is part of. There is an acceptable definition by accredited academic facilities and the highest of high art associations across the board. I am so tired of people trying to give there own definitions to what art is. What we find to suit our personal tastes in art is our own choice but it doesn't mean we can discredit an artist for creating something that is not an aesthetic style of our liking. A critic may have a say that is of opinion but it is just that.

 

Bonfire Photography

9 Years Ago

Two years ago he said "Photography is the serious art of our time. It also happens to be the most accessible and democratic way of making art that has ever been invented. But first, let's define photography." http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2013/jan/10/photography-art-of-our-time

Obviously having a keyboard does not make everyone a writer and only makes some a hypocrite...

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

JC, great comment!

Bonfire, that was an eye opening post! Unbelievable. How did you know where to find that? I wonder if anyone will point that out to him. Hypocrite is right!

Rebecca

edit - here's a quote from the photography post he made- "Today, photography is the only art that seriously maintains this attention to the stuff that matters."

 

Mary Ellen Anderson

9 Years Ago

Did this guy even look at the photo? It's not suppose to be a pretty picture of nature. It's even titled 'Phantom'. If the art critic didn't even understand what the art was about, how can they decide whether B&W was for nostalgic purposes. I agree, a knee-jerk sour grapes reaction.
-- mary ellen anderson

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

I will be happy to post that link on his comments

 

Barbara Leigh Art

9 Years Ago

OMG Photography is simply a 2D format that is part of fine art as painting and drawing are. Its as simple as that. How talented or skilled one is at it is another story. There is also a whole list of definitions to what is technically skilled art. When it comes to selling art its like any other product on the market. There are many skilled talents that the museums love and the general population would not buy. Museum talent and marketable product talent are two different things.

 

Thomas Zimmerman

9 Years Ago

What..an inflammatory article on the internet meant to go viral and drive traffic!?!?!

No it can't be!

 

Glenn Woodell

9 Years Ago

His comment about his iPad was enough for me to stop reading. That disqualified him immediately. Not that you can't take some decent images with non-camera cameras, but these are not to be used as any standards. The difference between an art and a technology is that of creation versus replication and/or transformation. As artists we create. Technologies may make things easier for us but thus far I'm not aware of any artificial means of creativity.

 

Sour.

Grapes.

 

Kevin OConnell

9 Years Ago

Marketing and jealousy. That same pic is shot thousands of times a year, learn how to sell it for that much and I want to shake your hand.

 

Off-topic alert!

Kevin -- I might be willing to pay that much for your avatar image. Awesome! ;-)

 

Val Arie

9 Years Ago

I didn't even read it ...so silly...of coarse photography is art!

 

Roger Swezey

9 Years Ago

Buy Quick!!!



It may not be in the best condition ...BUT...........

 

Colin Utz

9 Years Ago

We have exactly the same discussions, if photography is art, and how to price our work, every second day here on FAA. It´s a never ending story ...

 

You're right, Colin.

1. What is the meaning of life?

2. Is photography (or digital art) really art?

Gotta love the classics! ;-)

 

William Bentley

9 Years Ago

Photography in general is to me not really art. But, a camera in the right hands and a good subject, balance, and fov makes it a art form. Any one can take a photo, but just anyone cant pick the camera up and capture the moment at hand. I have learned over the last 2 yrs how to use my equipment to its fullest, so I would say if you know your camera and its limitions and can capture the moment then to me you are a artist. In general photography to me is not art. the photo capturing the moment is the art!!!!

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

I kind of feel sorry for the patron who purchased a string of multi-million dollar photos from Lik. I can only imagine the snickering going on at the country club.

I image it was a form of the long con. Damien Hirst did a similar thing with a patron. Built up the sales until the guy with too much money says to Hirst "create me something special, I'll pay for it what ever it costs" and then Hirst created the diamond encrusted skull.

With the Lik patron the guy probably said, I've bought your limited editions now can I please buy a one of a kind? So Lik puts Ghost through a black and white conversion and voila! Something new, something special! Something rare and "compelling".

-----

I think the title of this OP is misleading. The article was not about photography being art but whether Peter Lik's postcard image deserves the price paid. At that price point one would expect something that a museum would want. Lik work is not collected by any museums according to his bio. Although he has been exhibited at a show at a museum.

 

Melissa Herrin

9 Years Ago

Johnathan Jones can have his rant about how photography isnt art..meanwhile Peter Lik is laughing all the way to the bank with his millions. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding".

 

Geoffrey Coelho

9 Years Ago

I've always thought that Jackson Pollack was overrated.

But the writer makes a valid point. "Phantom" is a monstrosity, and typical of much of the garish and sentimental tripe that I see put out as "fine art photography".

 

William Kuta

9 Years Ago

I don't care what you call my photography, just show me the money.

 

JC Findley

9 Years Ago

Edward said, "

"I think the title of this OP is misleading. The article was not about photography being art but whether Peter Lik's postcard image deserves the price paid"

"Photography is not an art. It is a technology"

That is the first line of the article. Seems like he is opining about more than just Peter Lik to me.

Is Lik's image worth 6 mil? Don't know... Is the Rhine worth what a buyer paid for that? Don't know... I like Liks more than the Rhine but hey, to each his own.

 

Marlene Burns

9 Years Ago

Consider the source, Rebecca.
Anyone can say anything...and they can sometimes be convincing enough to make you believe it....or not.

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

I don't think the OP is misleading at all. I quoted what the man said.

And yes, I agree Marlene, just find it sad that someone who is paid to discuss something uses it for his bully pulpit, and the same bully pulpit he used to promote the very thing he disparages two years ago. So, it's a wash.

Rebecca

 

Joshua House

9 Years Ago

We had two threads in the past week to the same effect, it's hardly a new feeling among idiots.

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

I take it back. He does seem to have a problem with photography as art (although most of his articles are against modern art in general).

"Flat, soulless and stupid: why photographs don’t work in art galleries"

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2014/nov/13/why-photographs-dont-work-in-art-galleries

Oh well I guess it sells papers.
.....

BTW - I took in the Hood Museum's "Witness" show recently - artwork concerning the Civil Rights movement in the 60s and found James Karales,
Selma-to-Montgomery March 1965 photograph especially captivating. Certainly worth more than a glance.

http://arthistory.about.com/od/educator_parent_resources/ig/picturing_america/pa_neh_38.htm

 

Dave Bowman

9 Years Ago

"Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" - almost could have been said with this 'critic' in mind. This particularly made me laugh:

"The fact that it is in black and white should give us pause. Today, this deliberate use of an outmoded style can only be nostalgic and affected, an “arty” special effect."

"We are not trying to entertain the critics. I'll take my chances with the public." - Walt Disney

 

Toby McGuire

9 Years Ago

I don't know - the whole article feels like it's coming from a place of jealousy. Maybe he's a failed artist - who knows?

Regardless the debate of whether photography is art has no answer. It's completely subjective.

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

Love the Disney quote, David!

And Joshua, we will see these soulless statements ad nausem, I am sure.

 

Jennifer White

9 Years Ago

Oh, my. This guy isn't a photographer so he can't appreciate what true photographers do. To the standard non-artist, they use today's easy technology to simply take a photo. A true photographer understands lighting, ISO, Exposure, Aperture, Shutter speed and so and so on....It takes a lot of art just to understand your camera and to use it manually. Everyone has their opinions. My opinion, anything that is created by someone rather it be photo, painting, drawing, sewing, knitting, hand-making, it's all art and it's all unique. Would be nice to get that much for a photo. I could retire. ;-)

 

Edward Fielding

9 Years Ago

In his talk to Google, Art Wolfe makes an interesting comment about how painting was not originally considered art. It was the record of daily events. Not unlike how many view photography today.

http://youtu.be/44LI5sOq408

 

David Kachel

9 Years Ago

Photography isn't art. Neither is painting. Or sculpture.
People can use photography to create art, but a photograph isn't automatically art.
Jonathan Jones has apparently been living in a cave his whole life. Virtually every museum of consequence on Earth accepts that photography can be used to create art and has a photography collection.
Jones may be the very last person on Earth to find this out! I believe there may be tribes in the Amazon more knowledgeable than this guy.
As for Lik, I'm betting this is a fraud. Lik's work simply doesn't qualify and he is fond of giving himself accolades he doesn't deserve.

 

Kenneth Agnello

9 Years Ago

Yes, everything visual is art, the drum-beating theme throughout FAA. And what sells must be good. This is what we must agree on so nobody is insulted. That is the state of this vanilla age we live in--make no waves, hold no opinions, let technology do the walking, check appropriate boxes on forms, follow guidelines, get along with others. If "everything created by someone" is art, then nothing is left to discuss. Everything, then, must be good art--don't separate--since discrimination of all kinds is bad.

Funny, how does one establish goals, references and standards, if the free thinker is not permitted to think or judge?

 

Ronald Walker

9 Years Ago

The conversation seems silly to me. It has long been established that photography is an art form. As far as the high price of a photograph the market has little to do with art. The market is simply who wants it the worst and who wants to fork out the most money.

 

David Kachel

9 Years Ago

Kenneth,
KInda bitter, ain't we?
If the creator says it was created with the intent that it be art, then it is art.
The QUALITY of that art, is another question, and up to the observer.

 

Kenneth Agnello

9 Years Ago

I don't take my comments as bitter. But, then, anyone who challenges an idea, upsets the apple cart, stands up against the tide is seen as a malcontent. Where David perhaps sees "bitter," I see "awake." As Ronald says, the conversation seems silly. And as David stresses, "The QUALITY of that art is another question, and up to the observer." Both gentleman are correct! Now we are going places....

 

Bellesouth Studio

9 Years Ago

No, we aren't going anywhere.

I just thought it was an astounding thing to say, and was sharing it. Yes, consider the source, no I don't care for the photo but I didn't pay for it and we all know we will never convince people who don't think of photography as art otherwise. This has been a good run, but I think everything has been said that could be said, without dragging it into an long winded argument. So, thanks to all who posted and if you want to challenge ideas and the correct or incorrectness of them, please start your own post.

This one is closed.

Rebecca

 

This discussion is closed.