Certificate Of Genuineness?

I've had people request a certificate of authenticity before. I created one and put it on some fancy paper with a border. It is supposed to provide provenance on originals and limited editions. I'm not sure what purpose it would serve on reproduction prints.

Nancy, the one I noticed was a c-print, but those can be made from digital files too and essentially no much different than a giclee print in that multiple identical copies can be made.

I was in a reasonably high-end Santa Fe gallery a couple years ago and saw large giclee photographic prints from between $5000 - $10000. They were shown as limited edition out of about 30 I think.

Asked the gallery rep if they were made from digital files, and she confirmed they were, but supervised by the artist. I asked if all digital copies of the files were destroyed after the 30 prints were made. She replied that they we're not destroyed. So, I said that its not limited then? She said she'd have to get back to me on that. She never did. H

How can artists sell "limited edition" giclee prints from digital files without destroying the file & guaranteeing the series is indeed limited?

However, what I'm asking about in the original post is what is the purpose of a certificate of genuiness if it's not even listed as a limited edition? And, where can you get official documents like these?

The certificate can add value to originals or limited editions if the buyer is purchasing as an investment with the idea that the work will increase in value and eventually be sold to another buyer. It documents the origination of the work.

I think a lot of the certification documentation is just to make people feel good about what they are buying. It sounds to me like that high-end Santa Fe gallery was doing the same thing. To say it was "supervised by the artist" is silly. Of course it was; the artist owns the copyright. The gallery can't legally make copies without the supervision of the artist. In the end, the certificate may not provide any added value. Value is perceived. I think the case of an unlimited "limited edition" giclee print, the gallery was just taking advantage of their client's ignorance. Give them what they want. Make them happy. They may be a "high end" gallery, but I wouldn't trust them to provide true investment in fine art.

If I recall correctly, I just googled for a sample certificate and then created something in a similar format. Sales date, artist, size, media were included. It was for an original painting, not a reproduction. Personally, I would never create a certificate for an unlimited reproduction print, only originals or limited editions. It feels deceptive to do otherwise.

A "certificate of authenticity" sounds a lot more professional than "certificate of genuineness". For some reason, the latter sounds like something that might be uttered in a "Bill & Ted's Big Adventure" movie.

I agree with Greg. It is really just a fancy sales receipt, but that wouldn't be a good marketing term. A sales receipt serves the same purpose, but not nearly as fancy.

I suggest you ask in their forum

I'm asking because I've been thinking about moving away somewhat from trying to sell POD somewhat & doing more of a limited edition thing for some images at least. Just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.

Might see what I can find on Quora or some of the fine art photography groups on LinkedIn.

The "Certificate of Genuiness" is a term I hadn't heard before. It's from a photographer based in Spain, so maybe it's the same thing as Certificate of Authenticity but a cultural difference?

@Abbie,

They don't have a forum. Is this not a legitimate question to be asking on a Fine Art site where members are both offering originals AND POD? Seems like the perfect place and completely relevant question to ask on a "fine art" site to me. :)

Genuineness ( a hideously awkward word and shouldn't even be in a dictionary) has a subliminal message that the artist is also a genius if you skim really fast.
:::ducking:::

Certifying an open edition print?

My guess is the artist is wisely trying to make contact with their customers since we aren't allowed contact information when says occur via a POD site.

Skip, I agree the term may just be a cultural difference. In the end, you are certifying that the work is original or in a limited edition. Limited editions usually also document the number in the edition. For instance, number 1 out of 300 would conceivably be more valuable in the long run than number 175 out of 300. Kind of like first edition books are more valuable than later printings. It documents time and possibly place of creation, whatever it is you would like your legacy to be.

If you google "Certificate of Authenticity" and look at the images, you will see lots of examples. Some include a thumbnail of the image, some are just information, some are very plain, some are fancied up with gold foil emblems. Create it to reflect the persona you want for you work. You can buy paper and gold foil emblems at most office supply stores.

What I'm thinking I could do, is keep some images that remain available from FAA/PIxels/Artist Website, and the myriad of affiliate sites that are popping up... But create a gallery of specific images that were no longer available as POD and ONLY from me directly where I'd handle the prosecution, signing, and fulfillment myself.

I'm guessing all I'd have to do would be bulk change the prince in the non-POD Gallery with no pricing so that they could be sold here as such. I realize this would take those mostly out of the search results, but I've already come to the conclusion that's a game I can't win anyway.

Looking for ways to move in a new direction, but keep.a few toes left in the FAA/Pixels, affiliates (et al) ocean of images.

I figure I can add the info about the certification, and/or limited edition within the description of images I remove pricing on. Anyone else doing this? Complications?

At Nancy, thanks, and yes... I'm aware of what's implied or guaranteed in the certification. Most of it applies to when more handmade prints were made or a limited run of litho prints or screened prints where they aren't all necessarily identical.

But with giclee prints from digital files on digitally calibrated printers, they'd all be identical. The only way they could be considered truly "limited" would be if all copies of the file were deleted, which would be hard to prove in these days of multiple online backups.

I'm thinking maybe you could do a specific run all at once and call that particular run limited"?

Going to check one of the local art supply shops too. I bet they have something off the shelf that looks good and would suffice. Or, know where I can get something nicely produced rather than inkjet printing something up myself.

You are asking what it means and it is not on here so you need to ask on their forum what it means. If they have not got a forum then ask their support.

This site is not the place to discuss other sites sales tactics

If you are just discussing the term in general then ...................

I recommend we change the term to "certificate of realness". :)

@Abbie, my questions have nothing to do with discussing another site's sales tactics. Not sure where you got that from. I mention it's on another site because I can't reference the specific example since I know that's not allowed here.

My questions have to do with the proper way to sell art that is certified while also selling POD prints.

If that's not an absolutely relevant topic on this site, I'm not sure what would be.

My assumption is that there are artists in this discussion group who might know the details and proper verbiage for selling limited editions, and/or supplying various forms of official certification. And, how best to go about it while also selling some work as POD.

My primary platform at the moment is FAA. I'm looking into proper ways of doing something like that here, and thus asking the questions here at FAA. Curious why you're suggesting that I take these questions elsewhere. Somewhat baffling to be honest.

There is nothing in my questions about why another site does something. There's nothing critical or negative in any way shape or form. Please read my question again for clarity if you somehow have interpreted it otherwise. Thanks :)

But since you're in Europe, have you ever heard that specific term before on your side of the pond? "Certificate of Genuiness"?

I've never heard it before, but it does come up with Google search. Just no specifics.

"I recommend we change the term to "certificate of realness""

Ha! I second that emotion. Genuiness? My spell checker does not recognize that as a word. ;)

BTW Skip - LTNS :)

Hey Donna! Yeah, I've been reworking some stuff and trying to retool my approach in the ever-evolving landscape.

Haven't been active in the discussion groups for a few months or so until recently. Mostly trying to figure out what's changed, or about to change, and how best to adapt. Then, check out again from discussion group participation and go travel more. :)

I've had a lot of seller questions, concerns, confusion, etc. that I'd try to get answered from tech support, but I figure other users here might be better sources, and leave tech support to managing the actual behind the scenes minutia of making sure the site functions without glitches, customer questions, and that orders get filled, etc.

Good to see your name again! :)

Americana at its best.

not signed

Skip -

Like you, I'm in and out of the forum for days, weeks and months on end. Hey, we've been here long enough to be able to do that. I've been reading your threads when I'm here... I understand your confusion and the need to get it all straight in your head. This is not the "old" FAA anymore ... but I see you see that. ;) Always wishing you happy travels old friend. I may not say much but I do keep up at times. xx.

Donna, yeah, you can say THAT again ;)

I figured these were absolute relevant and pertinent questions related exactly to the business of selling original and POD work on FAA/Pixels, Artist websites, etc. But, since I'm being told to ask these questions elsewhere, I'll see if I can get some clarity on one of the fine art LinkedIn groups instead.

If I find something of value, I'll post the findings here in service to other's here who might be also interested.

Honestly figured this was just the kind of topic and questions that are perfectly valid here, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Cheers.

I assumed that these forums were available to talk about art related issues. Maybe I'm wrong and should re-read the guidelines. I'm feeling a little puzzled right now.

You and I both Nancy! :) No time to figure out why, etc. Just cutting and pasting all the bits together so I don't have to retype it all, and to post elsewhere since it's suggested they are not appropriate questions on this site.

When I get some good feedback elsewhere from others doing the sort of thing that I may to to shift over to, I'll post the info in this thread for other's who may share the same interests.

Better than a Certificate of Deception.

Dave Gordon
http://dgportfolio.net

David,

It's actually an officially used term, i.e. "Certificate of Genuineness",but it appears to be mostly used with regard to government documents like passports, citizenry, etc.

I only came across the use of the term with regard to "certifying" art today.

What I was mostly wondering is this.. because a "Certificate of Authenticity" generally applies to work that's numbered limited edition, I was wondering if this other term was being used to authenticate or otherwise certify the work actually came from the original author of the work and not from another resale source. This would certify that it wasn't copied somehow and certified it came from the original author.

At least, that's why I was inquiring about this term originally. It's obvious few here have heard of it, so perhaps it's a cultural term that means the same thing, or maybe the instances I've seen it used were mis-translated by the author from the more common "Certificate of Authenticity".

The idea here is that if someone like myself, wanted to offer some images via POD in an unlimited manner as I do now, but ALSO wanted to offer a few images exclusively offered as purchases that could only be made directly from the artist (me), would the common "Certificate of Authenticity" do?

I'm thinking of making some of my images no longer available as POD purchases but leaving them as viewable in the FAA/Pixels, Artist Websites, etc. They'd just say, "Not available via Print on Demand". Please contact the artist directly... or something like that.

The form included would be to give the buyer some form of certification and signature that they're buying directly from the author and not a copy via resale, but also NOT a limited edition per se. Is there a particular document you'd use for that?

It doesn't appear that anyone here knows the answer so I've posted it on a couple fine art linkedIn groups to see if anyone knows there.

If anyone does actually know the answer, feel free to chime in. Thanks.

Hi Skip,

For what its worth, I think the COA is used mostly with collectable items and such. If one buys something from a boutique or online venue, a COA provides provenance from the artist through the middle man/dealer to the buyer/collector sort of saying you made it or approved its manufacture to your standards. And yeah its usually done for a limited production run. If you are selling it direct to a customer without a middle man, then they know that it is authentic. I think it adds value to the buyer/collector in the event that they sell it at a later date or pass it on as a family heirloom. So in that case, a COA creates a perceived added value. If you were selling direct to the buyer/collector your signature and date produced on the artwork should be enough in terms of authenticity but the COA probably wouldn't hurt, might even enhance sales by offering it. It seems like a nice finishing touch.

Personally, I cringe every time I visit an antique or junk shop with my wife and see junky old matted photos faded and water-stained selling for $5.00 and wonder what will become of my sold art 20, 30 or 40 years hence. Would it matter if they had a COA with them or not? Probably not - assuming any of them still exist then and my heirs didn't trash my artwork after I croaked.

I think its sort of a marketing ploy where you give a piece of paper along with the artwork but it seems to work in that it adds a personal touch that creates the perception of added quality and value. Just selling it directly to a buyer probably adds value compared to the anonymous POD online transaction. Developing relationships with your buyers and selling direct is the preferred way to sell your art IMHO. Its very difficult for most of us to do - especially an introvert like myself.

Dave Gordon
http://dgportfolio.net

Thanks David,

That's a clear and concise reply that addresses many of my questions in this thread. I'd just seen the "Certificate of Genuiness" a couple times today and and wondered what it was. Didn't know if it was something new? Or a misinterpretation of the COA. Sounded ridiculous at first read, but Googled it and saw that it was used elsewhere too.

Ultimately, I think it's exactly as you allude to in your reply, ie. that it increases the value mostly via a more personal validation that the buyer has indeed purchased and interacted with the actual author of the work.

Thanks,

Skip

Hi Skip,

You're welcome. Also, if you do a search for "certificate of authenticity" on etsy.com, you'll find many results. One that I saw was a gallery on Etsy selling an artist's painting which includes a COA from the artist.

Dave Gordon
http://dgportfolio.net

To David.Check back side junky old matted photos from antique store.
Especially sepia toned.
You'll be surprised to discover photo printed on Kodak/Fuji/Canon/Epson paper.

Genuine Certificate of a Moment In Time

What is CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY?
a certificate that verifies the authenticity of a document that is made by a clerk or officer of the court.



Law Dictionary: What is CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY? definition of CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY (Black's Law Dictionary):
http://thelawdictionary.org/certificate-of-authenticity/