The "game" Of Sales With Faa And The Internet????

Interested in peoples' thoughts.

online is the same thing. be the best. only online you have 10,000 times the competition with one ten thousandths the attention span. so what you make has to be different and eye catching, yet suitable for a wall. the pictures can't just be nice, or in focus, they have to mean something to someone.

there really is no game. or i should say is - everyone online has pieces to that game so they may not think they want to play it. you have to find the customers based on the things you uploaded. so you have to create themes and not look random.

to sell online you need a lot of images (not always true but you should). you've been here since 2011, and only have 57 images - that's a tiny number. of those images i saw one sunset with cropping and clarity issues. most of the images are kind of random. one has a lot of glare on the lens. many have few keywords. some are film and look very noisy by today's standards. i don't think it would even print.

your initial asking price is way too high. one card is about $6. next size up $85-120 - not many will fork over that much for a print that size.

the thing about selling is you need variety and fair prices. high amounts will make people walk unless they really want it. organization is also important. of the things you have posted which ones will fit your living room the best? that's the main question you have to ask when posting as i do.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Welcome, Ross. The game is different in that you go from shooting pictures someone asked you to shoot (because they didn't exist) to offering photos no one asked you to take. Instead of shooting with a known client, an expected outcome, a set budget and a firm deadline you have no client, no expectations, no budget and no deadlines. In other words, total freedom.

Now you can shoot what you want, and that's secret number one. Let go of any preconceived notion of what "they" might want. They no longer exist, and any art created for the imaginary "them" will be mediocre at best. Create for you, and make your images the best you possibly can.

"And NEVER play into your emotions."

I would let that go. Fine Art buyers are emotional. They buy because the art strikes an emotional chord. Make art that moves people. There is no other reason for them to buy it.

Once you are making images only you can make, sales are easier because you can stop marketing images and start marketing you. That's secret number two. In Fine Art, people buy the artist as much or more than the art. When that happens, you'll never have to front the money for another shoot. You can get your buyers to fund your next series and pay handsomely for the first signed prints.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

I hear you the rules are the same you just have to market to a whole lot more demographics. Your keywords have to be strong. Your social networking very active. There is no magic bullet. You have to be discovered. Still working on it myself. I keep reading up on things and trying to keep up with the new marketing tools. It seems ones you figured out one way a new on is already trending.

Hi, Ross! Im here for 3 years and STILL can not understand the game. Seems its only question of luck, and not of professionalism at all. Many artists here will tell you that you have to do marketing a lot etc etc - partly true but again not essential.
The only thing what I've got here you never know will you be selling here or not. Just a fortune nothing else. I truly have the reason to say so. Well the only thing I tell and wish -good luck and dont get dissaponted too soon, everything can come your way ...

Welcome to worldwide competition in which anyone can claim to be a professional or artist. No portfolio review process needed. No resume, no references needed.

Plus you are now selling to a market that is for the most part untrained. They like what they like but might not know why.

I have to ask --- long did it take you to get established in your field? How long did it take to figure out the mysteries in your previous career? Any new venture is going to take closer to three years than three months to get going.

Plus when selling online we are rather blinded in terms of feedback. We get relativity no feedback on our marketing efforts other than sales and views.

My own extremely modest sales probably don't qualify me to even have an opinion. But, this being the internet, qualifications don't matter :-)

I would say the key to selling anything here is to remember it's "wall art". There has to be a reason why someone would want it on their wall, in a frame. Typically people buy wall art for their homes to remind them of who and what they think they are (places, interests, aesthetics) and to convey this to friends. For businesses, it might express a trade or profession, a place, or some iconic tool or material used in the work.

But how to get potential buyers to find your images here, on FAA, is another matter and I haven't found a working formula either.

I'd say the key is this

"Be as Great As You Could Every Day! Constantly Upgrade Your Portfolio! Know and Visit as many potential clients as possible!"

If you can do that and actually visit clients and sell then you'll hit a virtuous cycle on FAA the way the search is setup. The more you sell the more visibility you get.

Hi Ross, I'll just say welcome!

The mystery or the rule is a good and strategic SEO and spend as much as you can in the internet promoting yourself and your work (and aperfectioning your SEO strategy.

And the most important is to have a lot of luck. Some got so much that they sell without even knowing what SEO is. And a lot of people have tryed everything and become full dedicated and got nothing even after yeas.

So good luck.

there is really no such thing as luck. either they like you or they don't. if there is luck, it's like 10% - they found you accidentally. however they found you because you laid bear traps all over town with your name and address on them. lots of eye catching work and maybe a zingy turkey flavored avatar, that's all you need.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

I think there is luck involved. I didn't start out with an Abilene Theory, I came up with it to explain why I was able to sell when others of equal or better talent didn't.

Now figuring that out and using it to my advantage is understanding and exploiting what it was that was simply dumb luck in the beginning.

we can say there is some luck, i think it's more of good observational skills more than anything else. i wouldn't want to depend on luck. i have a row of troll dolls for that task.

i'll narrow down why people buy certain things by experimenting with the next images. and figure it out from there. a cross between intuition, observation, and scientific theory, and then experimenting. shape, size, theme, color, etc. even keywords are messed with, titles and so on.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

From Ross Lewis:To all who have contributed to this discussion. I am proud to know you and I thank you for offering all of your thoughts. I believe that each of you has added valuable thoughts and information for possible success. Ultimately, I also believe ( as I did with my own career), that the ingredients of art, success and money must achieve a balance. As a long time photographer (I started in Central Park in NYC in 1969 with an old borrowed Pentax) the "Art", "Feeling" "Expression" "Accomplishment" "Challenge", etc. all pulled me to leave my job as an Associate Director at CBS-TV to become independent and work for large corporations and the NFL. Most of my many paid assignments gave me freedom to deliver thousands of images which were designed and created by me....lots of freedom!

But, ultimately, beyond the Art, I understood that for me to survive, it was money. The same conditions hold true here with FAA as I see it.

I have "spoken" to several photographers in FAA via emails. The ones who are apparently successful are those who work day and night...long hours to fuel their art/photography business. That is a common ingredient in all successful ventures....the so-called "Doingness." I know it well. But the REAL question, beyond the Art, is: "Money and Statistics". (Note: I realized at an early part of my career that I was receiving a lot of compliments. But those compliments wore thin after a while. I knew I was a good photographer. So, for me, satisfaction in "making it in New York" was coupled with monetary success.

With that, in FAA, I have noticed a lot of sales on the "low price end"...i.e. multiple sales below $100.00 or, perhaps, a bit higher per piece. Those "stats" translate into the requirement for having a large quantity of sales to make a substantial income. i.e., if your average sale per piece is $100.00 (I see many sales for less than that) you will have to sell 100 @ $100.00 each to earn $10,000.00. To take this further, those statistics translate to selling 500 pieces at $100.00 to earn $50,000.00 in a year...... 500 pieces of sales are 10 sales per week (50 week year). If you are in the low tax bracket of 15%, your income is really $42,500.00...approximately #3,541.00 per month. While all of this may seem blasphemy in the face of a "true artist", it is surely a factor in what we are speaking about. All of this is why I have launched this Community Discussion: "How Do You Make Money with the love of your Art?" (As a Commercial Photographer, the Balance was a product of Good Art/ and Good Business and ultimately your ability to deliver film which satisfied yourself and the clients all the time).

The question with this Internet Selling (FAA and other vehicles), is surely an individual one.

Please continue your thoughts. I respect all of you.

it depends on what your avg is, many of my pieces are at $300 profit per thing. the smaller prints don't sell as often as the larger ones. the money adds up but its hard to count on because of the nature of the business. in general, if your depending on making a living off it, you should be selling quite a bit. if your not, keep the job you have it should be more stable.

ideally when setting prices though you don't want to start too high unless your work is very in demand. and just because others can get that higher price doesn't mean you will. so its often best to keep the small ones low, and the large ones high.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Nothing against high markups but for me, I keep my small prints "value priced." Keep in mind, many art buyers will think, man, I pay a buck fifty for a 10 inch print and this guy wants over 100? Yes, I know they are buying the art and not the paper but it is tough for the buyer to grasp on such a grand scale.

Now, when talking large prints, printing, shipping and framing cost a LOT of money and the people buying large prints tend to be far more willing to pay higher markups. I have sold pieces here where the total cost over ownership was over a thousand bucks but I still couldn't sell an 8 inch print for over 100.

The 8 inch prices are really high, in my opinion. You talk about mark up and what you have to sale to survice, but I can't image anyone paying $110 for really any photography on FAA. The first image you show is a bit noisy, toon and not tack sharp

certainly not $110 for a 6x8... again that's weird the preview shows a different price.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

I Thank all of you for your "Discussion" thoughts.

The focus of my discussion is, in a sense, to do research about the Real Possibilities of earning a solid income via internet sales of Art/Photography.You are all sharing vital information which is helpful to everyone. (I also appreciate your comments about the limitations and technical aspects of my own past-based film photography which is included in my portfolio). This is all new to me. At this point of my life, I am blessed with not having to make a living with a career. At the same time I am assessing the realities, for me (and hopefully for others), of time/art/business via FAA and other internet channels. The market has dramatically changed since I did my professional work in the 70s, 80s, 90s. And, with that, I have discovered, through several interactions with photographers/artists, that the realities of making a good living in the current internet market (including FAA) are clearly dependent upon Very High Volume sales of art/photography pieces. That appears to be the KEY to this business: Volume and How To Achieve Volume Sales. That "truth" is what I have been asking via my discussions.

That very same business/art factor existed as a pro photographer. I believe what all of you are sharing is terrific. It addresses the Reality of it all in terms of loving what you do and producing an income within that love.

I am working on Version #2 of my AW site. I would like the option of choosing my default tab on the Homepage. For instance, I want visitors to see my galleries first rather than my images.

@sid - you can set that up on here with the default show galleries. and in the AW, i think it's in one of the new sub menus, but it's there.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

overall you can make a living online. however you have to work constantly. making new things, advertising new and old things, and while each pod doesn't like it - you should be on more than one pod. all work should be interesting and printable by today's standards - best to take new shots then scanning in stuff from years ago. right now i'm only selling online, i make a pretty good amount of money, but it's hard to say how long it go if i lived on my own (my area is expensive to live in). (its not that its a high class place, it's just in a good location). in any case, its doable, but not easy to do. selling art has been and always will be hard to do. and considering how many people now own cameras and think they are photographers because their new iphone has a better camera now - well, that makes it harder to sell things.

---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

Ross, you may want to print these articles out and read them when you go to bed tonight. Not sure they will really help you in your selling but they are damn good sleep aides!

Selling Isn't Selling Its Problem Solving http://fineartamerica.com/blogs/selling-isnt-selling-its-problem-solving.html

A Few Reasons Y U May Not Be Selling http://fineartamerica.com/blogs/a-few-reasons-y-u-may-not-be-selling.html

Pricing Your Artwork http://fineartamerica.com/blogs/pricing-your-artwork.html

And if they are not dead, they still dream of big money.

http://fineartamerica.com/featured/behind-the-reality-franziskus-pfleghart.html