Art Or Vandelism? - Graffiti In Not-so-cool Places

Boy, not what I think when I think tagger. Clearly it's vandalism.

Disconcerting to realize that people think so much of themselves that they feel justified in leaving their mark by defiling what has existed long before and will exist long after their short, little lives are over.

So not cool.

I hope she experiences "Orange is the new Black' real soon. She can tag those walls.

its vandalism until your famous. banksy - if he did that, they would take the rock it was mounted on. like they are doing with the buildings he's done it on. i suppose the best way to teach them a lesson is to visit their house and sign their car, house, furniture etc in the same way. and to finalize it, weed killer so they can see that one later.


---Mike Savad
MikeSavad.com

She's an idiot. There's a time and place; our national parks are not the place.

I'm with the rest of you - not the place for this "art" at all.

Pure selfishness.

This really ticks me off. She's not the only one. I see graffiti often in natural settings and it's ugly. I've learned to accept and work around things like roads, bridges, power lines because I understand and appreciate the conveniences they offer me and others. But, this offers nothing except a boost to one person's ego. Not cool at all.

Loree, I spent 5 days in the Red River Gorge area of KY last year. Many of the arches had a lot of carvings in them. Very disappointing.

Sorry, if I have to say that, but there's really nothing to complain about here.
Nature will clean itself, especially if it's just little graffitis like from that girl.
It's kind of inconsistent to complain about that and to use all the products coming from this:
https://naturfotografen-forum.de/data/o/128/641681/image.jpg
She just uses the nature for her art in a very small kind of way. Industrie like in that picture above exploit the nature for generations to come. And you use the products everyday, especially fotographers and painters. The one for the glass and synthetics, the other for the paint and paper.


Just my opinion.

Erik, who says we do? One has nothing to do with the other; in fact, I would be willing to bet that those who dislike this defacing are more aware of what they use, so your point is moot at best.

Nature cleans ITSELF up, but acrylic paint has nothing to do with nature.
I saw this earlier, and said some not so nice words. It's vandalism. Irritates me when idiots decide to leave their own "petroglyphs" with the old ones, too.

Yeh, but what IS vandalism and what IS NOT? That is the question. And I don't ask it like a lawyer, more in a philosophical way. Because law changes and can change everyday.
For me it is not, even not for that "petroglyphs" Melany is talking about. If we want to hold everything mankind built or will build there will be no place for nature very soon.
The mankind is part of nature, we are nature and everything mankind does - and it doesnt matter if it is a company or a girl - is actually natural.
I will be very happy if the mankind stops to rape the forests and seas and rivers, but even if we don't stop it, it's natural, and that girls is just a part of it and had a idea to leave a mark on that planet, like the people 10,000 years ago also did.
I'm pretty sure, that there were people in that time who 'said' the same thing as you did. But for us these paintings are something special now.

It's just a matter of perspective.

Erik, "She just uses the nature for her art in a very small kind of way".

Now imagine if 500 artists did the same thing. Not so small anymore.

So what are you saying Erik, that you don't think we should be preserving land as parks? That seems to be your perspective, correct me if I'm wrong please. What you say is true, humans have trampled all over the place and damaged a lot of nature. But as a whole we've also recognized the damage and have set aside preserves world wide that are expected to be free of that damage, as much as possible. But you think it's OK to damage those too?

@ Eric

It's like the age old question as to what is pornography. A reasonable , objective person knows it when they see it. A reasonable, objective person knows this is vandalism.

@Erik - this isn't the Berlin Wall. This is our national parks -- set aside for the enjoyment of all. Not for some idiot's personal Instagram following.

She paints something on a stone in the desert.
She didn't harvest anything, she didn't kill an animal, she didn't cut down a tree, she didn't destroy anything, she leaves a mark in nature.
For me it is no vandalism.
I'm sure you did something more vandalism-like things to nature in your life.

What is this some kind of urban mentality? Oh look I have left the city, look at this, a fresh canvas for me to put my personal touch upon.

Isn't this not also kind of vandalism then?


This guy is going to nature to change it, to leave his mark. Nature will get it back, for sure. But that girls paintings also.

This absolutely INFURIATES me. This is stupidity, selfishness, hubris, ego, and completely illegal and immoral.

I don't usually rant on the forums, but I want to throttle people who do this. Who do they think they are, anyway? I hope someone puts this woman in jail soon. Let her draw on her cell walls.

No comparison Erik. They aren't even close to the same thing. And were those done on protected lands? None of that stuff is permanent. Those stone works will be there a few weeks at most. Her acrylics will unfortunately last years. And yes, the manner in which she "left her mark" is destructive. If she had used some thing that would wash off over time, I'd agree with you. but she didn't, she chose a destructive method.

Society as a whole screwed up big time when they started treating graffiti as art. It is not art, it is vandalism. These people are not artist, they are vandals and crooks and they should be caught and punished like any other common criminal.

Instead we elevated then in awe of their "talent". We encouraged them instead of punishing them as we should have.

We did the same thing with hackers. Now look at all the problems we have with hackers. How safe is the Internet today? And it seems to get less sage every day.

Erik - your example of an artist using natural material is a rather limp argument. Is it done in our national parks? Is it against the law? Is it defacement?

What would you like to see next when you visit a National Park? Coke ads spray painted on the sides of mountains until nature cleans it off after a few hundred years?

Could you be so kind and check your recent sales Chuck? And tell me what you see:
Just two pictures of nature without human influence. You want these pictures to be art, and it is! I like your pictures very much!
So tell me where is the border to vandalism. When did it begin and when does it stop?
Isn't a house made of wood from tree from a former natural landscape? Didn't you take a picture of vandalism then?
Or is vandalism just a thing of future and present?
Don't you think the government of every country in the world is able to change borders of a national park?
Couldn't be that place - where the girl marked the stone - an industrial complex tomorrow if the government needs that place because of ressources or similar stuff?
What that girl did, was definitely against the law, but that was homosexuality also some decades ago. But that doesn't mean that it is unnatural.

I'm about to hike a nature preserve now, and although I hope not to see any human destruction. I won't insult the environment in any way so you can calm down... I'm not the one that needs preaching to.

By the way Mt Rushmore is ugly and the artist was considered a racist. His work destroyed a mountain side and it should be restored back in my humble opinion. The people who paint mountain sides or collect and pile rocks just don't seem all that bad by comparison, but they are breaking the law...most importantly, they are destructive to the habitat, causing safety problems, and some of the indigenous peoples of the Americas find it insulting. I care more about the education of young people because that usually promotes healthy respect for property that doesn't belong to them.

If you see people spray painting things in a public, in a nature reserve, or a private residence and it looks like criminal activity, call the police. Never try to solve the problem on your own. or act like the punitive person out for revenge. Let the police handle all criminal behavior.

Floyd and HW, get outside today, find some beauty and do something about all that anger. Anger management is best by getting out in the fresh air...calm down...Life is good. Smile.

We went camping in the Sequoia National Park with our young families. This was in the 80's. During a hike back into the Giant Trees we decided to stop for a lunch break. Unknowingly we had one of our children's friends start to carve his initials into the huge Redwood where we were sitting in the roots. All of a sudden from the trail we heard an alarmed and angry voice. The hiker had noticed the tree carver and became quite disturbed. We immediately stopped him and apologized for our lack of attention. But she would have none of it. Walked off in a huff. I recognized the angry lady as Academy Award Winning Actress Ellen Burstyn. Certainly knew how to use her trained tonal patterns to get the point across!

I too was pretty unhappy about that. There are places for your initials... and places where they should never be seen. There are places to develop and places to leave untouched.

I live in an area that has been traditionally known as a farming community. Some of our local travel takes us through country where there are large beautiful boulders and rocks strewn across the scape. Nothing angers me more than to see that some person has decided to paint on of the rocks along the landscape. It fosters another... and then another... and yet more. It's just another way of someone saying "Hey... look at me" while thumbing their noses at the world." I see it as a fine... like littering... but worse. If caught they should pay the penalty and be responsible to restore the damage as close to original as possible. It has cost lots of money to keep Half Dome in Yosemite graffiti free. They go up there and do their thing too. I don't it think it needs any improvement.

@Lisa

Anger? Really? Sorry, no anger here. Please do not confuse opposing opinion with emotional response.

I am aware that some native Americans don't care for Mt Rushmore and it's understandable given the history. As for Borgham being a racist, I have heard this theory but not researched it myself. I am curious though, Given your feelings about Rushmore, how do you feel about the crazy horse memorial? It's huge and only a small percentage complete.

"His work destroyed a mountain side and it should be restored back in my humble opinion."

Well, that won't happen. How does one "restore" a mountain?
"Whatcha doing there, Bob?" "Putting these rocks back to restore Mt. Rushmore".

"While at Stone Mountain, Borglum became associated with the newly reborn Ku Klux Klan. Whether this accorded with a racist world view, or if it was simply one way to bond with some of his patrons on the Stone Mountain project, is unclear. Frankly, Borglum had little time for anyone, white or black, who was not a Congressman or millionaire, or happened to be in his way."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/biography/rushmore-borglum/

Mount Rushmore was not the first mountain carved out.

Thank you all! I almost closed this thread last night, but I appreciate the level tone of the discussion and how it's flowed.

How do we restore a mountain...? not sure on that one actually. I can tell you how we are restoring the Hanford Reach and it's not a pretty price to pay for having won a war or two wars if you consider the cold war a war.

I really have no problem with Mt Rushmore, just didn't like what the documentary on it had to say, I don't remember what it was called. There were a lot of workers on the project and the artist in charge wasn't portrayed very nicely.

After looking at the Mt. Rushmore sculpture again, it's amazing. (Smile) I don't think I would want that one destroyed.

"Floyd and HW, get outside today, find some beauty and do something about all that anger. Anger management is best by getting out in the fresh air...calm down...Life is good. Smile."

Don't be condescending.

People should get angry when they see stuff like this going on. We should see more public outrage over some of stupid stuff that people are doing and getting away with in the name of political correctness and other such nonsense, we would not have craziness like this gal defacing out national parks and hackers stealing our credit card information.

There is nothing wrong with a little anger when it is directed at the right things and people.

As the old saying goes. "I am madder then hell and I ain't going to take it anymore" . We need more, not less of that, directed to people committing crimes.

I would like to run into her so I could personally kick her ass.

I would think a sentence of year of cleaning the pit toilets at the parks would be fitting. Good amount of time with the scrub brush instead of a paint brush might help her to see the world in a less selfish way.

"I would like to run into her so I could personally kick her ass."


That needs to be repeated!! lol

Art or vandalism? It appears to be both :-)

"I would like to run into her so I could personally kick her ass."

That seems a little harsh. Her sense of the world is obviously different from the typical hiker's sense of the world. Plus she's attractive and appears to be in superb shape. First you'd have to catch her to kick her ass.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

There are all sorts of ways to look at that.

First Dan, I may be getting old, but I still have a few moves and I am sure I can still catch a pretty girl if I set my mind to it

Second, I have spent a lot of time with a scrub brushes and nasty latrines having been in the service. I have also had my ass kicked a time or two. Given the choice, I would take the ass kicking over the scrubbing duties and get it over with. ;-) :-) :-)

"I am sure I can still catch a pretty girl if I set my mind to it"

Ohhh, gonna set a little trap, huh?
You could lay out some art supplies in a snare. When she comes to snatch 'em -- gotcha!! That's going to set her off, so you better have your dart gun ready. When she wakes up she'll have a scrub brush in her hand.

I want video of that.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

"Be veery veery quiet...." -Elmer Fudd

Well, this has devolved...

Dan!! lmao!

Ye of little faith!

They should throw the book at her, maybe lifetime ban

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/press-charges-casey-nocket-finesmax-community-servicejail-timeetc-httpgooglhy4yqj-defacing-np-nm/1y8xJBGm

Chuck, thanks for putting this out. Just an outrage and a crime against all the people IMO. I signed and passed the petition on Adam.
I know it is disheartening to walk to a place you think no one has hardly been, look down and see cans. To see this is a whole lot worse.
They just raised the entrance fee to Yosemite by $10. They should put some of the funds into some how trying to control this, if it is even possible.

As for the number of National Parks in the US, there are 59 with the "National Park" designation. The park service manages a total of at least 401 areas.

Plenty of other similar areas are managed by the forest service, the BLM, a number of other federal agencies and then a network of probably at least 500 state parks under the jurisdiction of the individual states.

This type of thing gets prosecuted in the state parks too. There was a lot of outrage over this incident a while back at Goblin Vally (a Utah State Park)


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4122488

Not the boy scouts best day.

I was outraged to hear about this. After I took a few deep breaths and calmed down a bit, I wrote an article about it on my blog.

http://www.loreejohnson.com/?p=984

More than vandalism it is a desecration of Mother Nature! I wouldn't put it past these talentless idiots to desecrate their own families grave. I hope those guilty are procecuted to the fullest...

The recognition and worldwide attention is probably exceeding her wildest dreams.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Unfortunately, a lot of folks grow up with out experiencing much of nature. This is sad and means that many people have little understanding of the natural world.
This young woman was very wrong in what she did, but we don't know reasons for her ignorance or apparent hubris. A court is the appropriate place to deal the matter. Hopefully it will serve as a teaching moment and a reasonable outcome will result.

Dan, you are so funny! True enough!

Stop Making Stupid People Famous

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop+making+stupid+people+famous&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=0ZByHP8i5uq7RM%253A%253BwsYFyRNPeb6s_M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.dumpaday.com%25252Frandom-pictures%25252Ffunny-pictures%25252Ffunny-pictures-of-the-day-71-pics%25252Fattachment%25252Fstop-making-stupid-people-famous%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=0ZByHP8i5uq7RM%253A%252CwsYFyRNPeb6s_M%252C_&usg=__ZKjIlwWBU4cxdCpTM-n1LvK_O6k%3D&biw=1223&bih=608&ved=0CC0Qyjc&ei=v4lOVP_dOcL0igLcyIGICA#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=0ZByHP8i5uq7RM%253A%3BwsYFyRNPeb6s_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dumpaday.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F07%252Fstop-making-stupid-people-famous.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dumpaday.com%252Frandom-pictures%252Ffunny-pictures%252Ffunny-pictures-of-the-day-71-pics%252Fattachment%252Fstop-making-stupid-people-famous%252F%3B620%3B827

Yikes!!! Longest link ever! lol